Imperial Guard 9th Edition Tactics

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**RegularGuy**

Going to a tournament and I'm too slow to run all the foot guard I'd like. Thinking of going with an all tank list for speed. Not expecting to win. Was thinking about 10 tanks with punishers and bolters just for simplicity (with jury rig repairs and spotter details in a spearhead). What would you take differently for an all armor list that might be better?

**Ravajaxe**

caladancid wrote:
I'd like to get my transport game ready prior to the new book- any good insights on Tauroxes vs Chimerae?

The Taurox looks awful, especially due to the cumbersome and ridiculous tracks with double mudguard. If you can swap these little tracks for big sized resin wheels, the taurox looks much nicer.

As fellow dakkaites, I'm on wait mode, for the next codex. I'm only touching up unfinished projects, so no new transports for now, and few experimentations. So I don't have appropriate advice to give. What you can do however, if buying second-hand vehicles does not bother you, is scouring ebay. Its is when a codex is old and has weak winrates, that second-hand sources are the least sought-after, with the most interesting prices.

Also, check the arguments given by Mordian Glory in its todays video about Chimeras :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrKr77kBykY

**Jarms48**

caladancid wrote:
I'd like to get my transport game ready prior to the new book- any good insights on Tauroxes vs Chimerae?

ATM chimera all the way. The Taurox is just too expensive for what it does. If the Taurox was around 75 points it'd actually be a decent option. Faster and better guns for the point cost, but less transport capacity and durability.

No rumours on either of them in the next codex sadly.

**caladancid**

Ravajaxe wrote:
caladancid wrote:
I'd like to get my transport game ready prior to the new book- any good insights on Tauroxes vs Chimerae?

The Taurox looks awful, especially due to the cumbersome and ridiculous tracks with double mudguard. If you can swap these little tracks for big sized resin wheels, the taurox looks much nicer.

As fellow dakkaites, I'm on wait mode, for the next codex. I'm only touching up unfinished projects, so no new transports for now, and few experimentations. So I don't have appropriate advice to give. What you can do however, if buying second-hand vehicles does not bother you, is scouring ebay. Its is when a codex is old and has weak winrates, that second-hand sources are the least sought-after, with the most interesting prices.

Also, check the arguments given by Mordian Glory in its todays video about Chimeras :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrKr77kBykY

Jarms48 wrote:
caladancid wrote:
I'd like to get my transport game ready prior to the new book- any good insights on Tauroxes vs Chimerae?

ATM chimera all the way. The Taurox is just too expensive for what it does. If the Taurox was around 75 points it'd actually be a decent option. Faster and better guns for the point cost, but less transport capacity and durability.

No rumours on either of them in the next codex sadly.

Thank you both!

**Jarms48**

RegularGuy wrote:
Going to a tournament and I'm too slow to run all the foot guard I'd like. Thinking of going with an all tank list for speed. Not expecting to win. Was thinking about 10 tanks with punishers and bolters just for simplicity (with jury rig repairs and spotter details in a spearhead). What would you take differently for an all armor list that might be better?

All tank lists are slower than infantry. Unless you mean chess clock speed. Armoured lists aren’t very good. No objective holding power, not enough damage, no survivability.

If you want to have fun though, go for it. It’s not like our most competitive lists are winning either.

**bat702**

If you take leman-russes in a spearhead they gain ob-sec, also if you field cheap chimeras and 60 pt kitted out infantry squads you can play objectives

**DeadliestIdiot**

bat702 wrote:
If you take leman-russes in a spearhead they gain ob-sec, also if you field cheap chimeras and 60 pt kitted out infantry squads you can play objectives

I put together a 1250pt spearhead tank list (plus one astropath and one tech priest for fun) recently. Still haven't had the chance to play it, but while I was putting the list together it dawned on me that (unless I'm mistaken) LRBT in a spearhead still only count as a single model and so can be out-obsec'd by pretty much everything with obsec

The squads in chimeras obviously makes up for that, but then I'm not sure spearhead is the way to go in that case

**Jarms48**

Narrative Campaign Tips:

Thought I'd do something different and suggest some builds for narrative.

Tank Commanders:

Spoiler:

Take Assassins - Eversor Assassin:

Spoiler:

Take Assassins - Callidus Assassin:

Spoiler:

Take a Rogue Trader:

Spoiler:

Primaris Psyker or Astropath:

Spoiler:

Ogryn Bodyguard:

Spoiler:

Death Rider Squadron Commander:

Spoiler:

Personally I wouldn't suggest taking Inquisitors, as Astropaths and Primaris Psykers can be buffed to do their job better. The one exception is Inquisitor Coteaz who is amazing for their PL cost, which is the same as a regular Inquistor. Great statline, has a Master-crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Spy Network, can cast 3 powers and deny 2 powers.

**necrontyrOG**

New secondaries, special orders seems pretty interesting.

**Kcalehc**

Boots on the Ground seems interesting too, assuming Scions count, not hard to get at least 3 or even 4 table quarters, and drop a regimental standard in the center, or in enemy deployment zone.

**Psychocouac**

Sounds like they didn't know how to make Astra works in 9ed so they went on giving them points for basic things like deploy, kill guys on objective and trying to stay alive on the board to me.

**waefre_1**

From what I've heard about the default lethality of 9e combined with the abject frailty of our units, I'd say "trying to stay alive" would be a challenge worthy of some extra VP if we succeed.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Kcalehc wrote:
Boots on the Ground seems interesting too, assuming Scions count, not hard to get at least 3 or even 4 table quarters, and drop a regimental standard in the center, or in enemy deployment zone.

It likely doesn't. Unless you go 100% Scions, as the new stuff limits or heavily curtails multiple sub faction lists. Also, Scions don't have a regimental Standard, they have a Platoon Standard. Look it up. This almost certainly scrues the Scions.

**Ravajaxe**

What do you think about the shakup in metagame that is brought in by the new CP allocation ?

I will reserve my jugement for later, when I will see these new CP allocation in action. For now, what I see is other armies than guard having much stronger relics than us, much stronger warlord traits than us, and overall stronger stratagem combos than us, and they rule the scene. Having less CP at the beginning of the battle means all of these CP shenanigans will be toned down. I admit that we are hit too, but less so. It is common practice to field a pair of "full payload" artillery (manticores or basilisks), as almost mandatory selections in guard. Here is our 2 CP expense. Very few other pre-battle expenses are worth it, so we will begin the battles with 4 CP + 1 at start, minus what you may pay for a second detachment. I think Astra Militarum will go through this change relatively unscathed.

There is another point to consider : most of the times, Astra Militarum players are happy to take a battalion or two. While other codexes players make big use of specialist detachments. They will have an incentive to revert to leaner, and a bit weaker army builds. On top of that, Astra Militarum is among the very few codexes that has access to a relatively easy to field, cheap brigade with good troops selection, and few tax (near worthless) units. I don't think I have seen brigades in any of other codexes competitive lists. I think fielding a brigade will be the way to go for Astra Militarum, at least if you dont take the route of a mechanised battalion.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I Don't see how most factions that consider themselves "Elite" function after this. Custodes are done. Astartes may well be ruined for several subfactions. SlamCaptains are gone for sure. DW/GW is/are wrecked.

Factions with the ability to muck around with the cost of Strats got a big boost out of this. Isn't there an assassin that has Reign of Confusion or whatever, costs double to use a strat?

**Kcalehc**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Kcalehc wrote:
Boots on the Ground seems interesting too, assuming Scions count, not hard to get at least 3 or even 4 table quarters, and drop a regimental standard in the center, or in enemy deployment zone.

It likely doesn't. Unless you go 100% Scions, as the new stuff limits or heavily curtails multiple sub faction lists. Also, Scions don't have a regimental Standard, they have a Platoon Standard. Look it up. This almost certainly scrues the Scions.

Don't see why it wouldn't Scions have the <regiment> keyword, its just locked. And yeah the 'Platoon Standard', had never occurred to me the name was different. Still, not hard to get a Regimental Standard to the center of the battlefield - maybe keeping it alive for more than one turn, sure

**Jarms48**

Ravajaxe wrote:
What do you think about the shakup in metagame that is brought in by the new CP allocation ?

I will reserve my jugement for later, when I will see these new CP allocation in action. For now, what I see is other armies than guard having much stronger relics than us, much stronger warlord traits than us, and overall stronger stratagem combos than us, and they rule the scene. Having less CP at the beginning of the battle means all of these CP shenanigans will be toned down. I admit that we are hit too, but less so. It is common practice to field a pair of "full payload" artillery (manticores or basilisks), as almost mandatory selections in guard. Here is our 2 CP expense. Very few other pre-battle expenses are worth it, so we will begin the battles with 4 CP + 1 at start, minus what you may pay for a second detachment. I think Astra Militarum will go through this change relatively unscathed.

There is another point to consider : most of the times, Astra Militarum players are happy to take a battalion or two. While other codexes players make big use of specialist detachments. They will have an incentive to revert to leaner, and a bit weaker army builds. On top of that, Astra Militarum is among the very few codexes that has access to a relatively easy to field, cheap brigade with good troops selection, and few tax (near worthless) units. I don't think I have seen brigades in any of other codexes competitive lists. I think fielding a brigade will be the way to go for Astra Militarum, at least if you dont take the route of a mechanised battalion.

As much as it's going to hurt us, I do think this change will hurt other armies more.

Our relics and warlord traits are pretty bad, so not a huge loss there. I'm seeing less and less manticores in competitive armies now mainly because AoC kinda killed their usefulness, so not much change there for tank aces. The biggest thing the CP changes have done is ruin triple battalions. Though we can get around that by taking more brigades.

**CadianSgtBob**

The big problem is that alternative detachments are crippled. That neat thing with objective secured on LRBTs? Pretty cool idea for an armored regiment? Nope, once you pay for your detachment and two tank aces you're starting at 1 CP and it's zero CP if you want to take a relic (like maybe that relic battle cannon that a tank army might want). Want to take a Baneblade squadron? Zero starting CP and you don't get a relic or WLT or tank aces at all.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

It's clear that for some reason, GW currently hates scions, and is on purpose excluding them from all the big nasty buffs. I worry that there will be something even buffier or nastier then HotE waiting in the wings, which will inevitably cause them to get nerfed.

**Jarms48**

Jarms48 wrote:
Narrative Campaign Tips:

Thought I'd do something different and suggest some builds for narrative.

Tank Commanders:

Spoiler:

We'll start with the obvious one. Punisher Tank Commanders, amazing in Crusade.

Requisition:
- Spend an RP for Decorated Officer to immediately get Blooded get the Artificer Relic Artificer Weapon. Now your 6's to Hit generate both an autowound and a mortal wound.
- Spend an RP for the Master Mechanic Tank Ace. Keep the Tank Commander alive as long as possible.
- Spend an RP for the Gifted Commander Warlord Trait. It's pre-game and won't be a waste if the TC dies. Gives a great way to move the TC out of danger before 1st turn or put them in range if you roll 1st turn. I consider this optional, but it definitely helps.

During Campaign - Combat Patrol Missions:
- If you skipped the above your first Battle Honour at Blooded get the Artificer Relic Artificer Weapon. You could do this literally after the first battle if you choose the right Agenda and give them Marked for Greatness.
- During any Combat Patrol missions if you roll Assassinate and get the free Battle Trait I'd suggest going for Blessed Hull for the 5+++ mortal wound defence, alternatively take Grizzled Crew it only gives you a 6+++ but it works on everything not just mortals.
- When you get them to Battle-hardened go for Star of Terra. Now your TC has a 2+/4++/5+++ save, the latter only against mortals.

If you continually choose the right Agenda and keep selecting Marked for Greatness you should be able to get all 3 of these buy the end of game 3. Though the free Battle Trait is highly luck dependent.

During Campaign - Incursion Missions:
- At this point you should be focusing on powering up other units, but once you hit Heroic immediately get the Weapon Enhancement Master-worked. Flat damage 2 on a Punisher is scary.

During Campaign - After This:
- As above, you should be shifting focus on powering up other units, don't give them anymore Crusade Relics or Weapon Enhancements. If they manage to reach Legendary just give them Improved Shielding or Enhanced Engines. The former help keep them alive a bit longer, while the latter works well with the Shock Troops stratagem. Elite Crew can have some use as well, it basically frees up an order. Which you can give to another vehicle or do Strike and Shroud on the TC.

Take Assassins - Eversor Assassin:

Spoiler:

Oh boy, this guy can get some insane buffs in Crusade.

During Campaign - Combat Patrol Missions:
Let me just start with, if you're taking a Tank Commander in a Combat Patrol already don't include the Eversor yet. The TC already takes up half your list. If you're doing an infantry focused list or scions focused list then definitely take them early to power them up quickly.

- First Battle Honour at Blooded get the Artificer Relic Frenzon Injector as it stacks with their datasheet Frenzon ability. Which means now the Eversor has a 3D6 rerollable charge range, basically giving you a 75% chance of an average 10.5 inch charge. They also get +3 attacks when charged, charging, or performing heroic intervention.
- During any Combat Patrol missions if you roll Assassinate and get the free Battle Trait I'd suggest going for Deadly Charge which means that +3 attacks turns into +4 attacks.
- When you get them to Battle-hardened go for the Weapon Enhancement Master-worked. Making their 10 power sword attacks flat damage 2.

During Campaign - Incursion Missions:
- At this point you should be focusing on powering up other units, but once you hit Heroic take the Antiquity Relic Archeotech Nano-med. Which means when they die you come back on a 2+, why is this good? It means he can Bio-meltdown twice.

During Campaign - After This:
- If they manage to reach Legendary give them Null-field Disruptor. That way you can ignore invuls on all those power sword attacks.
- For the 6th and last use a free Battle Trait Swift and Agile as the +1 charge means they have an average 11.5 inch charge with rerolls.

Take Assassins - Callidus Assassin:

Spoiler:

Her utility ability to make enemy stratagems cost more or fail is amazing in Crusade because if your opponents are getting additional CP from Crusade Blessings they'll likely be spending it on more stratagems.

During Campaign - Combat Patrol Missions:
I don't recommend taking her at this low of PL, take the TC or Eversor instead. She's better as the game progresses.

During Campaign - Incursion Missions:
If you're taking the Eversor, I'd still suggest not adding her yet. However, if you don't have an Eversor this is how I'd build her.

- First Battle Honour at Blooded get the Artificer Relic Artisan Bionics it pushes her phase sword to S5 and gives her a 5+++.
- When you get them to Battle-hardened go for the Weapon Enhancement Master-worked. This makes her phase sword flat damage 3.
- If you get a free Battle Trait I'd suggest going for Deadly Charge for the +1 attack.

Strike Force Missions:
If you're also taking an Eversor, this is when I'd add the Callidus to your list. By this point everyone is starting with the maximum amount of CP, will likely have other methods to generate CP from characters, and have the most from Crusade Blessings. Use the 3 dot points above to start her off.

If you're taking an Eversor I would suggest:
- Xenotech Digital Lasers at Heroic.
- Swift and Agile at Legionary.

If you're not taking an Eversor I would suggest:
- Frenzon Injector at Heroic. For the charge reroll and +1 attack.
- Xenotech Digital Lasers at Legionary.
- If you get another free Battle Trait I'd likely go Heroic Constitution. Alternatively, go for a Archeotech Curiosity see below.

Take a Rogue Trader:

Spoiler:

They don't even need to be in your list, you could literally use them to give other characters more abilities thanks to their unique requisition. As for their loadout, I would only ever suggest this one - Heirloom pistol; court blade; monomolecular rapier; archeotech grenades; concealed archeotech weapon; disruption field generator; multi-spectral auspicator.

Requisition:
- Spend an RP for Duellist warlord trait.

During Campaign - Combat Patrol Missions:
Thanks to their cheap PL cost you could take them early with a TC. The TC and Cartographica Rogue Trader are only 15 PL, leaving plenty of room for 3 Infantry Squads.

If you're not taking Assassins of any kind:
- First Battle Honour at Blooded get the Artificer Relic Artisan Bionics it pushes their monomolecular rapier to S5 and gives them a 5+++.
- During any Combat Patrol missions if you roll Assassinate and get the free Battle Trait I'd suggest going for Deadly Charge for the +1 attack.
- When you get them to Battle-hardened go for the Weapon Enhancement Master-worked. Making their sword attacks flat damage 3

During Campaign - After This:
Load up on Archeotech Curiosity's. Simple as that. I suggest always taking a bad Artificer Relic immediately pay 2 RP and roll 2D6 on the Archeotech Curiosity tables.

Primaris Psyker or Astropath:

Spoiler:

I'll avoid a full breakdown of when to take abilities, as they only require a handful of buffs.

- At Blooded take the Psychic Fortitude Psychic Might for the additional cast. He already knows 2 powers and smite, an additional cast makes them instantly better.

This is when I really suggest taking a Rogue Trader, as the rest of the Psychic Fortitude stuff is pretty meh. You could take Deadly Charge or Resilient but personally I'd prefer to spend 2RP on Dealer in Exquisite Goods and give them an Archeotech Curiosity. Go for Psychic Augmentations and Physical Augmentations. Then depending on what you roll is how you should build your character.

You could do this multiple times, though I wouldn't suggest more than twice as you run the risk of rolling the same abilities and I don't believe they stack. As the abilities share the same name. After which just take Battle Traits, either stacking durability or melee damage depending on what you rolled.

Ogryn Bodyguard:

Spoiler:

You can surprisingly get 2 fairly durable Ogryn Bodyguards.

1st Ogryn Bodyguard:
Take the Slabshield, Bullgryn Plate, and Bullgryn Maul.
- Conversion Field: For the 4++ and mortal wound on enemies on a 6.
- Razor-edged on the Bullgryn Maul to make it AP-2. To get around AoC.
- Deadly Charge: For the additional attack.
- Artisan Bionics: If you're not taking an Assassin. It pushes the Bullgryn Maul to S8 and gives them a 5+++.
- Swift and Agile: For more reliable charges.
- Heroic Constitution: To make them more tanky.

2nd Ogryn Bodyguard:
Take the Slabshield, Bullgryn Plate, and Bullgryn Maul.
- Spend 1RP and take The Deathmask Of Ollanius: For the 4++ and heal D3 wounds.
- Razor-edged on the Bullgryn Maul to make it AP-2. To get around AoC.
- Deadly Charge: For the additional attack.
- Frenzon Injector: If you're not taking an Assassin. For more reliable charges and +1 attack.
- Resilient: To make them more tanky.
- Heroic Constitution: To make them more tanky.

Death Rider Squadron Commander:

Spoiler:

In terms of relics there's not many options.

I would suggest purely focusing on buffing their statlines.
- Deadly Charge: For the additional attack.
- Fleshbane: On their power sword for flat damage 2.
- Frenzon Injector: If you're not taking an Assassin. For more reliable charges and +1 attack. Not really necessary with 10 inch move.
- Heroic Constitution: To make them more tanky.
- Archeotech Curiosity. Go for Psychic Augmentations and Action Augmentations.
- Heirloom: On the hunting lance for exploding 6's.

Personally I wouldn't suggest taking Inquisitors, as Astropaths and Primaris Psykers can be buffed to do their job better. The one exception is Inquisitor Coteaz who is amazing for their PL cost, which is the same as a regular Inquistor. Great statline, has a Master-crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Spy Network, can cast 3 powers and deny 2 powers.

I did a more detailed post over on Reddit for Guard crusade builds. You can find it here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/vb8nns/imperial_guardastra_militarum_crusade_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

**Ravajaxe**

Munitorum Field Manual, version 2022.6 : point changes for Astra Militarum :

Straken : no change.

Yarrick : 105 ==> 110 points.

Company Commander : free power sword, free bolt weapons ; power fist 10==>5 points.

Gaunt ghosts : no change.

Pask : no change.

Creed : no change.

Lord Commissar : plasma pistol unchanged, free bolter, free power sword, power fist 10==>5 points.

Tank Commander Leman Russ : no change.

Tempestor Prime : plasma pistol unchanged, free power sword, bolt pistol and command rod ; power fist 10==>5 points.

Conscripts : no change

Infantry Squad : no change from previous dataslate (60 points, free wargear).

Militarum tempestus Scions : few changes, free vox caster, bolt pistol, power sword ; power fist 10==>5 points.

Astropath : no change.

sergeant Kell : no change.

Bullgryns : 35==>30 points.

Command Squad : free regimental standard, vox caster, medipack.

Commissar : free bolter.

Crusaders : no change.

Master of Ordnance : no change.

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad : free regimental standard, vox caster, medipack.

Priest : no change.

Nork Deddog : no change.

Officer of the Fleet : no change.

Ogryn Bodyguard : no change.

Ogryns : no change.

Platoon Commander : power fist 10==>5 points, all other wargear free.

Ratlings : no change.

sergeant Harker : no change.

Servitors : no change.

Severina Raine : no change.

Sly Marbo : no change.

Special Weapons Squad : 40==>45 points for 3 snipers configuration ; 49 ==>45 points for all other special weapons configurations.

Techpriest : no change.

Veterans : 65==>70 points, free heavy weapons, vox caster, sniper rifles ; free sergeant power sword, plasma pistol and bolt weapons ; power fist 10==>5 points.

Wyrdvane Psykers : no change.

Armoured Sentinel : 35==>40 points, free heavy weapons (except hunter-killer missile).

Hellhounds : no change.

Scout Sentinel : 35==>40 points, free heavy weapons (except hunter-killer missile).

Basilisks : no change.

Deathstrike : no change.

Heavy Weapons Squad : free lascannons and missile launchers.

Hydra : no change.

Leman Russ Battle Tank : no change.

Manticore : no change.

Wyvern : no change.

Chimera : no change.

Taurox : no change.

Taurox Prime : no change.

Valkyrie : no change.

all Baneblade super-heavy variants : base unchanged, free options, except lascannon 50==>30 points.

**Kcalehc**

Thank you for that excellent and well put together summary!

Liking the 'free' upgrades. Confused about Ogryn being the same but bullgryns being cheaper. Overall not a bad selection, may save me a few points here and there - may have to rejigger my squads to include more heavy weapons.

**Pyroalchi**

Do I understand correctly that the Lascannon Sentinel basically went down 10 points?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

So Yarrick costs 3 Lord Commissars with plasma pistols? And LC HWTs are now 90ppu?

I'm sorry, I can't tell if these are in ppm or ppu?

It doesn't make sense anyway, that LR gets no change, but Sentinels get a points drop and free HWs

**Pyroalchi**

Technically Sentinels either get a points drop OR they get a small points hike (from 35 base to 40 base) and free HW. But not both.

**Ravajaxe**

Kcalehc wrote:
Thank you for that excellent and well put together summary!

Liking the 'free' upgrades. Confused about Ogryn being the same but bullgryns being cheaper. Overall not a bad selection, may save me a few points here and there - may have to rejigger my squads to include more heavy weapons.

Confused by Ogryns too. They have never been remotely good, sadly.

Pyroalchi wrote:
Do I understand correctly that the Lascannon Sentinel basically went down 10 points?

Absolutely. If you were fielding sentinels with multilasers, for cheap placeholder purposes you are hit by a +5 points hike. If you were fielding sentinels for heavy weapons support (lascannons, plasma cannons etc...) you are granted a -10 points rebate.

**MinscS2**

Looks like GW didn't even look at our FW-tanks.

Macharius BT is still massively overpriced junk for instance.

**The_Real_Chris**

Ravajaxe wrote:
Munitorum Field Manual, version 2022.6 : point changes for Astra Militarum :

Yarrick : 105 ==> 110 points.

That will stop all that Yarrick abuse! I assume the studio has an Ork army doing an Armageddon campaign...

Veterans : 65==>70 points, free heavy weapons, vox caster, sniper weapons ; free sergeant power weapon, plasma pistol and bolt weapons ; power fist 10==>5 points.

So Vets are now 100 points for Sarge with plasma pistol; and power sword, Lascannon team, Heavy Flamer, Vox caster, and 3 meltaguns? Catachan version has 3 flamers for 85 points. Still a flimsy suicide squad, but if you can get it into range...

all Baneblade super-heavy variants : base unchanged, free options, except lascannon 50==>30 points.

Take that vastly superior knights!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kcalehc wrote:
Thank you for that excellent and well put together summary!

Liking the 'free' upgrades. Confused about Ogryn being the same but bullgryns being cheaper. Overall not a bad selection, may save me a few points here and there - may have to rejigger my squads to include more heavy weapons.

I would love it if adding a heavy weapons team meant adding it the 10 man squad (taking it to 12). The box is 10 men, the transports hold 12 men. Would just make more sense...

**Jarms48**

Militarum tempestus Scions : few changes, free bolt pistol, power sword ; power fist 10==>5 points.

They got free voxes too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So Yarrick costs 3 Lord Commissars with plasma pistols?

Slightly less than that, 3 LC with plasma is 120 points. Yarrick went up by 5 points. No idea why, I've never seen him used.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
And LC HWTs are now 90ppu?

They didn't change, not sure where you even got that. They're 50 points for the squad.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
but Sentinels get a points drop and free HWs

Sentinels went UP 5 points and got free heavy weapons. No point to use the multi-laser now. You're better off taking a heavy flamer, lascannon, or plasma cannon.

**DeadliestIdiot**

Re: no point in the multilaser, maybe taking it to fish for 6s? No clue if it'd be worth it. I'm not going to dig into the math, but it's a thought