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In the december metawatch video GW said Astra won't need a balance dataslate, because they have a new codex. Sounds like all Astra will disappear from the slate.

Hmmm, as Im listing through rules, it seems Ogryn Bodyguard can (and only him) wield Ripper Gun + invul shield. Which is IMO best option for Bodyguard who babysits Command Company. Maybe for frontline Castellan classic maul+shield, but Ripper Gun gives better numbers on backfield.

I do like the idea of a slabshield/ripper gun bodyguard and Im glad I magnetized my ogryn to be able to do that. You can still shoot the gun in melee and it at least has a little uff to your melee profile. The job of the squad is to sit back and order, not punch things, so the ripper gun will probably help more than the maul. At the minimum it may help plink a couple wounds off a tank or kill a marine, which is nice

Noob question

I am new to Guard, currently assembling the Cadia stands box.

I've got the Field ordnance and the Sentinel done without having to go firm on any weapon choices (thanks to a few magnets)

Command squad is done: commander with power sword, Vox caster ,Regi Standard, Medic with lasgun, and flamer on the last dude.

This leaves me with 2 x Grenade launcher, 2 x meltagun, 2x plasma gun & 1 x flamer to supplement my 2 squads of Cadian shock troops with.

It's a max of 2x special weapons per squad. I'm kinda stuck which way to go. They seem a little small for magnets!!

this is where i'm stuck which way to go.

2 x melta ? 2x plasma? 1 meta + 1 plasma? 2 X grenade launcher?

Please advise :-)

The flamer on the last guy of command squad is a big mistake. If grenade launchers are underwhelming, infantry flamers are really bad, especially @1 per squad.

For the cadian infantry squads, you should expect an errata that says "each type of special weapon cannot be taken more than once" (instead of two). So the best combo will almost always be melta + plasma, no questions asked. So don't bother magnetising special weapons, just glue them.

I tried out the not!Macharius aka the Rogal Dorn yesterday, and I was pleasantly surprised because the two tanks I had (both with Oppressors, one with Pulverizer and the other with the minigun) did a whole lot of damage and survived the 2000pts battle against Beast Snagga Orks. I guess they had some advantage because literally everything my opponent had was a good target for them (lots of those squighog riders, Kill Rig, bunch of infantry supported by special characters) and they were unmolested for the first few turns because my 3x5 Rough Riders scared the crap out of my enemy by gangbanging a squighog deathball of some kind. By the way, the Rough Riders were really good. So much that my opponent spent some 10 minutes thinking whether his super-duper squighog special character should charge them or not because he was unsure if the character could beat them. I'm telling you this guys: mowing down 30 Gretchin with Thunderous Charge and Frag Tips is the kind of unique experience you can't buy . So yeah, I have a disassembled Macharius somewhere in the attic, I think I will do some searching and see if it is still around.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
The flamer on the last guy of command squad is a big mistake. If grenade launchers are underwhelming, infantry flamers are really bad, especially @1 per squad.

For the cadian infantry squads, you should expect an errata that says "each type of special weapon cannot be taken more than once" (instead of two). So the best combo will almost always be melta + plasma, no questions asked. So don't bother magnetising special weapons, just glue them.

Im not so sure about the errata with only one of each SW. It is considered typo, but cadian command swuad clearly says *one of each. IMO 2 in troops are small conceding to "all is in the kit" because se lost SWS.
Of course, it is still kinda dumb in DKoK kill Team set, but lets hope GW know se will have a lot of bits.

Because I hate combining plasma+melta in troops (worse, it would mean melta+GL with Krieg, Vox is too important), I like my units to have clear role. But I agree there is no need for magnety, OP can have plasma+melta in FAQed or two twin plasma/melta if not. Rest simply isnt as good as those two.

Cadian Command Squad has zero limitations. The Platoon Command Squad does.

Cadian version lets you swap out the Regimental Standard and Lasgun for a weapon option and you can also do so for the other Cadian Veteran Guardsman.

You cannot swap out the Vox or Medic.

Is there a consensus yet on whether the new IG codex is good, bad, or adequate (consistently competitive in the current meta)?

 JB wrote:
Is there a consensus yet on whether the new IG codex is good, bad, or adequate (consistently competitive in the current meta)?

Very competitive and thats accounting for them losing armor of contempt and the ignore los penalties. I played a game against one of the best players on the local group and did pretty well even with a thrown together list. I lost, but the fact that I even put up a fight when I hadnt played in months with a new codex told me all I needed to really know. Leman Russes alone are pretty nuts, and thats before you get to stuff like the kasrkin bomb, rough riders, or the born soldiers trait.

Idk if theyre gonna be the list to beat, but with the rumors of marines losing Armor of contempt and other factions getting nerfs IG is definitely going to be a tough army to face. An armored company of 8 leman russes with some support will be something other lists need a plan to deal with because its very easy to build and very tough for the points.

 JB wrote:
Is there a consensus yet on whether the new IG codex is good, bad, or adequate (consistently competitive in the current meta)?

My thoughts after playing 4-5 games with the new codex;

External Balance? Pretty good, will probably handle themselves pretty well without feeling OP.

Internal Balance? Pretty horrible sadly, especially with the nerf to indirect weapons. The list of units who won't see competitive (or even semi-competitive) play either due to being very overpriced or simply doing the same thing as a different unit but worse is pretty long:

- Non-Cadian Command Squad.
- Tempestus Command Squad.
- Catachan Jungle Fighters + Catachan SC's.
- Death Korps of Krieg.
- Taurox Prime.
- Tempestus Scions. (completely replaced by Kasrkin outside Tempestus-lists.)
- Servitors.
- Basilisks.
- Manticores.
- Wyverns.
- Heavy Lascannon F.O.B.
- Malleus Rocket Launcher F.O.B.
- Leman Russ Eradicator.
- Leman Russ Exterminator.
- Rogal Dorn Twin-Battlecannon.
- Most (but not all) of the various Baneblades.

This is my opinion, and your mileage may vary.

I will also add, it felt good to play when I played with the codex leaks. Haven't had the chance to actually play with the new dex yet, hoping to get in a game tomorrow.

I finally have a copy of new codex and I am not sure I understand why all indirect fire weapons are less desirable?

I also have questions about the Field Ordnance Batteries. They look like the only reliable option is the Bombast Field Gun that can fire indirect but Heavy D6 looks very unreliable.

Heavy Weapons Squads look like a big nope too. I find myself leaning towards a few command squads, a commissar or two, some psykers, a lot of Shock Squads, and Leman Russ Battle Tanks. Is there something else in the Codex that really ought to be in a take all comers army list? I feel like I ought to take something for indirect fire.

Edit: Sentinels, yes or no, armored or scout?

 JB wrote:
I finally have a copy of new codex and I am not sure I understand why all indirect fire weapons are less desirable?

Since they get affected by the -1 BS/AP nerf just like every other indirect weapon in the game now, combined with a high pricetag and bad base BS.

Example:
A Manticore firing indirect would on average hit 2,16(2) shots at AP-1 - for 140(!) points. Even at S9 and D3 thats not anything to write home about.

As soon as you start shooting direct fire with your Manticores and Basilisks to avoid getting -1 to hit/AP, you're essentially a less accurate (since they don't have the Turret-rule) and resilient Leman Russ with a Battle Cannon.

As for the Wyvern, it's just terrible full stop: On average 4,67 S5 AP- hits when firing indirect - for 120 points?
If it was shooting indirectly at it's intended target (GEQ's) for a whole game, it would just about kill a squad of 10 Guardsmen in 5 turns; assuming they're not in cover..

Yeaaaah, I think this highlights the issues of no LoS shooting. It tends to swing from oppressive (look at Tau SMS back in their heyday) to what you see now which is borderline unusable. Which is unfortunate given that artillery is such a big part of the guard's identity. I feel like if there was a proper suppression system it would give them more of a role beyond just shooting so they don't just directly compete against Russes. Alas, we'll have to see how 10th ed looks before we can see that implemented.

I don't see an issue with it.

Expert Bombardiers evens it out, and the Master of Ordnance adds a reroll specifically for Artillery.

If you're investing that heavily in Artillery as part of your list? It really doesn't hurt you to actually specialize in it rather than just taking everyone else's word for it that Born Soldiers is the bestest ever.

Anyone know if there's likely to be a keyword update for forge world units anytime soon?

 PaddyMick wrote:
Anyone know if there's likely to be a keyword update for forge world units anytime soon?

Very unlikely, FW units are effectively non-existent to GW ruleswise, barring specific janky rules-abilities or people abusing them at tournies somehow.

So that's why tyranids, csm, eldar, knights etc got keyword updates?

Can anyone with access to the new guard codex tell me what base size the Lord Solar has?

I've made a traitor-guard version, but I can't figure out what base to use.

So I have 3 Infantry squads with no SW or vox whatsoever, what is the optimal plan for them? Add heavy weapon squads to them or run them as cadin shock troops and babysit objectives? Would be difficult getting orders to them as well

Get some radios and special weapons.
Or at least convert them to get a mortar team, so that they will contribute to the fight while sitting on backfield objectives.

epaemil wrote:
So I have 3 Infantry squads with no SW or vox whatsoever, what is the optimal plan for them? Add heavy weapon squads to them or run them as cadin shock troops and babysit objectives? Would be difficult getting orders to them as well

Send them to die on an objective you don't want to hold; but would like the enemy to spend 1 or 2 turns chewing through you're conscript platoon to get at.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Anyone know if there's likely to be a keyword update for forge world units anytime soon?

Very minor keyword update after official errata and release of codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't see an issue with it.

Expert Bombardiers evens it out, and the Master of Ordnance adds a reroll specifically for Artillery.

If you're investing that heavily in Artillery as part of your list? It really doesn't hurt you to actually specialize in it rather than just taking everyone else's word for it that Born Soldiers is the bestest ever.

I mean if you looked at guard before the Los restriction was removed artillery still wasn’t that strong..
New codex didn’t improve the base profile much at all and they just got worse.
Best artilery unit now is a basilisk I guess and you need to heavily invest into it to make it competitively viable where you could have just taken a leman russ regardless.
They could have kept indirect exception and guard artillery would still be not ideal.

It's a shame that the codex is probably only 5 good (possibly OP) units. I won't be rushing out to do any modeling since we may only get 6 months play out of it, but I will be able to put out a competative list* (with proxies). Also the 'dataslate is what's in the box' approach is dumb and a step in the wrong direction.

I won't even buy the codex I don't think, but I would have bought if it was released on it's own last year.

Ah well nevermind, there are positives. I like the move away from army wide sub-factions. Would like to see more generic datasheets ie Rough Riders not being all from Atilla, but I can work around that with 'count as'.

*Here's a summary of my list:
The horse dude, rogal dorn, 3 russ, 3 armoured sents, 2 scouts, 30 infantry + command, commissar, 3x5 rough riders, 20 scions.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheers gungo, hopefully sometime next month then, and i'll be able to give orders to hades breaching drills!

gungo wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Anyone know if there's likely to be a keyword update for forge world units anytime soon?

Very minor keyword update after official errata and release of codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't see an issue with it.

Expert Bombardiers evens it out, and the Master of Ordnance adds a reroll specifically for Artillery.

If you're investing that heavily in Artillery as part of your list? It really doesn't hurt you to actually specialize in it rather than just taking everyone else's word for it that Born Soldiers is the bestest ever.

I mean if you looked at guard before the Los restriction was removed artillery still wasn’t that strong..
New codex didn’t improve the base profile much at all and they just got worse.
Best artilery unit now is a basilisk I guess and you need to heavily invest into it to make it competitively viable where you could have just taken a leman russ regardless.
They could have kept indirect exception and guard artillery would still be not ideal.

I could see a heavy weapon squad of mortars being a go-to indirect for mopping and holding the home objective. They're relatively cheap and are probably sufficient to harass other cheap home objective holders. That said, I'm not particularly experienced at competitive list building, so I'm prepared to be wrong on that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What are folks thoughts on the Steel Commissar tank ace? It looks to me as a way to get a much more durable commissar for 10 points cheaper (iirc). I suppose they would be giving up character protection though, so it's attractiveness might be down to how much mortal wound spam you expect to run into (for me it's a ton of it)

Hello my fellow two armed humans. Certain parties would like to know if any of you had had any luck using the Deathstrike Missile?

 Niiai wrote:
Hello my fellow two armed humans. Certain parties would like to know if any of you had had any luck using the Deathstrike Missile?

I am sure at larger points values and against hordier armies the deathstrike is great as an area denial weapon but I ran it in a 1000 point game against thousand sons this week and against so few models it was almost impossible to do anything useful with it. A fun thing for larger games but another Leman Russ would have worked much better at that lower points level.

Out of interest, how big is the 'Deathstrike Target marker' referred to on the datasheet?

 PaddyMick wrote:
Out of interest, how big is the 'Deathstrike Target marker' referred to on the datasheet?

It doesn't have a size but it doesn't matter, you measure from the center of the marker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeadliestIdiot wrote:
I could see a heavy weapon squad of mortars being a go-to indirect for mopping and holding the home objective. They're relatively cheap and are probably sufficient to harass other cheap home objective holders. That said, I'm not particularly experienced at competitive list building, so I'm prepared to be wrong on that

It's not a bad idea. It won't do much damage since you aren't buffing it (which would make it no longer a cheap home objective holder) but minimal damage is better than the zero damage you'd get out of an infantry squad camping on that objective. The main issue is that you're burning a full heavy support slot for that 55 point unit and there's a lot of competition for those slots. AoO gives you more slots and helps with this, but it does mean committing to having heavy support be your mandatory three and might leave you tight somewhere else.

What are folks thoughts on the Steel Commissar tank ace? It looks to me as a way to get a much more durable commissar for 10 points cheaper (iirc). I suppose they would be giving up character protection though, so it's attractiveness might be down to how much mortal wound spam you expect to run into (for me it's a ton of it)

Probably not worth it IMO. In isolation it's a pretty good pick but how many tank commanders are you going to have available for it that aren't already committed to a different ace? I think most of the time you'd rather pay the extra 10 points, gain character protection, and leave your tank commander(s) free for something that isn't so easily replaced.