Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

I think this confirms it. You are officially the most unlikable poster on dakka. You win the award.

What kind of ass clown goes around telling people "you aren't competitive" in a game of toy soldiers? You hate marines...we get it - you don't need to keep commenting on it. We will automatically assume you hate marines from here on out? K?

casual players spend their time whining and bitching about their army being too weak.

Ask yourself what you spend the majority of your time doing.


I don't hate Space Marines, I fething love Space Marines. Every piece of lore I read is Space Marine focused, my most expensive collection is my SM army and also my biggest prize. You're projecting your own insecurities about yourself as a player here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

Lol pot calling the kettle black

good one man

Bruh, people complaining != casual.
There's many a thing you could've said there but calling him a normie because he complains is well, not one of them.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Bruh, people complaining != casual.
There's many a thing you could've said there but calling him a normie because he complains is well, not one of them.

I'm sorry but if your army is currently the most dominant army in the competitive meta, winning most events, and you're spending your time on message boards making 30 posts a day complaining about them not actually being very good, then you are pretty much by every definition, not a very competitive player (especially when you're calling gak like Orks OP at the same time).

But I know, Dakka has different standards

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yes, you do only lose the loci - which is literally the only special rules available to a Daemons army.

So you go from Marines, who lose Chapter Tactics but keep a whole host of rules, to Daemons, who lose every single rule period if they bring another god. The only difference between Slaanesh and Tzeench in the same detachment and a completely unbound army is that you get to keep some CP (but you only have like 4 stratagems so whatever).

Let me put it this way:
Bringing Tzeench and Slaanesh in the same detachment has more in common with bringing Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than with bringing Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment.

If you mix gods Khorne Daemons still get unstoppable ferocity, Nurgle disgustingly resilient, Tzeentch ephemeral form, and Slaanesh quicksilver swiftness. All you lose is the Daemonic Loci detachment rule which, to be perfectly blunt, is not worth going mono-god most of the time. The Tzeentch one in particular sucks big balls and isn't worth considering at all. Either go mixed detachments or tack a patrol on to shore up weakness, because mono Slaanesh can run up the board and flip objectives fine, but when it comes to actually holding them down? Slaanesh Daemons are going to get fething shredded by bolter fire. Twenty bolter shots fired at a squad of Daemonettes kills eight of them usually (56 points), which is easily achievable.

Adding a patrol with Nurglings or whatever to actually hold them (by turn 1 even) is a must. Those same bolters firing on Nurglings will kill one model (or 18 points) on average.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

I think this confirms it. You are officially the most unlikable poster on dakka. You win the award.

What kind of ass clown goes around telling people "you aren't competitive" in a game of toy soldiers? You hate marines...we get it - you don't need to keep commenting on it. We will automatically assume you hate marines from here on out? K?

I mean, you also said Stompas and Squig buggies were secretly op and competitive.

I assumed he was drunk he said that.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yes, you do only lose the loci - which is literally the only special rules available to a Daemons army.

So you go from Marines, who lose Chapter Tactics but keep a whole host of rules, to Daemons, who lose every single rule period if they bring another god. The only difference between Slaanesh and Tzeench in the same detachment and a completely unbound army is that you get to keep some CP (but you only have like 4 stratagems so whatever).

Let me put it this way:
Bringing Tzeench and Slaanesh in the same detachment has more in common with bringing Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than with bringing Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment.

If you mix gods Khorne Daemons still get unstoppable ferocity, Nurgle disgustingly resilient, Tzeentch ephemeral form, and Slaanesh quicksilver swiftness. All you lose is the Daemonic Loci detachment rule which, to be perfectly blunt, is not worth going mono-god most of the time. The Tzeentch one in particular sucks big balls and isn't worth considering at all. Either go mixed detachments or tack a patrol on to shore up weakness, because mono Slaanesh can run up the board and flip objectives fine, but when it comes to actually holding them down? Slaanesh Daemons are going to get fething shredded by bolter fire. Twenty bolter shots fired at a squad of Daemonettes kills eight of them usually (56 points), which is easily achievable.

Adding a patrol with Nurglings or whatever to actually hold them (by turn 1 even) is a must. Those same bolters firing on Nurglings will kill one model (or 18 points) on average.

I had to re-read that a couple of times to realize you weren't dismissing the Locus of Swiftness out of hand along with the others.

The Slanneshi Locus is incredibly powerful, it is absolutely worth a mono-god detachment to activate it. If you are trying to make a mono-god Slanneshi list work for the style points (and not taking a CSM patrol like a sensible person) then you're not going to try to hold objectives with Daemonettes in the first place, you're going to park Soul Grinders on them and if they get shot down then at least that firepower wasn't going into your combat units.

The general wisdom is that Nurgle and Tzeentch can kind of stand on their own while Slannesh and Khorne cannot, and I disagree. Slannesh wouldn't turn down a small boost but it does not belong in the same bucket as Khorne.

ccs wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

I think this confirms it. You are officially the most unlikable poster on dakka. You win the award.

What kind of ass clown goes around telling people "you aren't competitive" in a game of toy soldiers? You hate marines...we get it - you don't need to keep commenting on it. We will automatically assume you hate marines from here on out? K?

I mean, you also said Stompas and Squig buggies were secretly op and competitive.

I assumed he was drunk he said that.

Xeno once told me that plants breathe in through their roots and out through their leaves, and insulted my intelligence when I attempted to correct him. I think some people just live in a different reality, and trying to explain how stompas work in ours will be fruitless.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

I think this confirms it. You are officially the most unlikable poster on dakka. You win the award.

What kind of ass clown goes around telling people "you aren't competitive" in a game of toy soldiers? You hate marines...we get it - you don't need to keep commenting on it. We will automatically assume you hate marines from here on out? K?

I mean, you also said Stompas and Squig buggies were secretly op and competitive.

Never said that. I said buggies were good and implied they were good enough to build a competitive army around (honestly to some people that definition makes them OP - and realistically that is accurate if 80% of the models in the game can't do that) Turns out I am right because they have placed in some events. Stompas I was only defending as "not that bad" and quite good when built around the more dakka stratagem and freebootas. Made no predictions about stompa taking competitive events. The reality is - titans in general are pretty bad in this game as a titan - stompa is not uniquely bad as ork players LOVE to complain about. Go ahead though - misconstrue what I've said in the past. Makes no difference.



Not sure why you defend someone which all they do is spout vitrol and make personal attacks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

I am with you. I am also going casual.

Don’t kid yourself, you already were.



Also SM are far more unbalanced for casual gaming than competitive anyway lol.

I think this confirms it. You are officially the most unlikable poster on dakka. You win the award.

What kind of ass clown goes around telling people "you aren't competitive" in a game of toy soldiers? You hate marines...we get it - you don't need to keep commenting on it. We will automatically assume you hate marines from here on out? K?

I mean, you also said Stompas and Squig buggies were secretly op and competitive.

I assumed he was drunk he said that.

Xeno once told me that plants breathe in through their roots and out through their leaves, and insulted my intelligence when I attempted to correct him. I think some people just live in a different reality, and trying to explain how stompas work in ours will be fruitless.

Very funny. I'd love to get a fact check on that. Yes dude...we were talking about plants and I'm and so incredibly stupid that basic first grader knowledge of how plants respirate is foreign to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:
I had no desire to play marines until the supplements came out, because it was the first time that they seemed interesting to play with the way that the doctrines work.

Well before that - marines in 8th were literally bottom teir even from the time their first codex came out. Case can be made they were the least competitive faction in the entire game. Their win rate was in the 40% area. GK SM DA BA...whatever...they all basically were using the same overcosted models.

GK SM DA BA...whatever...they all basically were using the same overcosted models.

GK had no over lap, at least as far as armies pre PA goes. DA were running Raven Wing and its specific units no other marine has access to. BA did use units other could use, but through mechanics the faction had they were vastly superior to regular marine ones, even if in the end BA armies were mostly smash captins, 15 scouts and a ton of IG, often with a castellan for a lot of 8th ed.

Pre their PA books IH didn't exist as a playable army, and WS/RG/IF etc were just weaker versions of ultramarines. So even in the case of those armies and technicaly the same faction, people weren't playing the same thing.

The PA came, and IF fists armies were different from WS or RG ones. Not everyone was running assault centurions, not everyone was running bolter focused armies. Even weaker marine armies like CF had nice gimmiks, that opened some units to being viable for them.

It would certainly be nice if more people starting the hobby looked at Xenos factions and thought oh they are cool, that's my army. It would be even nicer if GW incentivised that with fairer release schedules.

As for Marines being OP.. well they are, whether or not SM players want to admit that or not. Now I don't care if Marines are amazing. Sure, fine. But they must be appropriately pointed. Currently just about everything is still undercosted by at least 20% even after the points adjustments. Their codex balance is going to be make or break for 9th edition as a whole.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Yes, you do only lose the loci - which is literally the only special rules available to a Daemons army.

So you go from Marines, who lose Chapter Tactics but keep a whole host of rules, to Daemons, who lose every single rule period if they bring another god. The only difference between Slaanesh and Tzeench in the same detachment and a completely unbound army is that you get to keep some CP (but you only have like 4 stratagems so whatever).

Let me put it this way:
Bringing Tzeench and Slaanesh in the same detachment has more in common with bringing Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than with bringing Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment.

If you mix gods Khorne Daemons still get unstoppable ferocity, Nurgle disgustingly resilient, Tzeentch ephemeral form, and Slaanesh quicksilver swiftness. All you lose is the Daemonic Loci detachment rule which, to be perfectly blunt, is not worth going mono-god most of the time. The Tzeentch one in particular sucks big balls and isn't worth considering at all. Either go mixed detachments or tack a patrol on to shore up weakness, because mono Slaanesh can run up the board and flip objectives fine, but when it comes to actually holding them down? Slaanesh Daemons are going to get fething shredded by bolter fire. Twenty bolter shots fired at a squad of Daemonettes kills eight of them usually (56 points), which is easily achievable.

Adding a patrol with Nurglings or whatever to actually hold them (by turn 1 even) is a must. Those same bolters firing on Nurglings will kill one model (or 18 points) on average.

Right, and if you took Tyranids and Eldar in an Unbound army they'd still get Synapse and Battle Focus respectively.

Taking multiple gods in the same detachment is more akin to taking Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than it is to taking Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment. That was the point and I stand by it.

Well before that - marines in 8th were literally bottom teir even from the time their first codex came out. Case can be made they were the least competitive faction in the entire game. Their win rate was in the 40% area. GK SM DA BA...whatever...they all basically were using the same overcosted models.

Let's not forget Bobby G and his Stormravens of doom, or Bobby G and his Razorbacks ... of doom ... Lists that were so initially dominant they were squashed in near record time by GW.

Yeah, the book as a whole was weak, but even with the weak book, marines STILL had one or two OP builds ....

Karol wrote:

GK SM DA BA...whatever...they all basically were using the same overcosted models.

GK had no over lap, at least as far as armies pre PA goes.

librarian, techmarines, chaplain, terminators, apothecary, dreadnought, servitors, venerable dreadnought, land raider 1-2-3, stormhawk, stormraven, stormtalon, razorback, rhino.

Just because the iconic models of GK are unique doesn't mean they dont have overlap with other marines.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

GK SM DA BA...whatever...they all basically were using the same overcosted models.

GK had no over lap, at least as far as armies pre PA goes.

librarian, techmarines, chaplain, terminators, apothecary, dreadnought, servitors, venerable dreadnought, land raider 1-2-3, stormhawk, stormraven, stormtalon, razorback, rhino.

Just because the iconic models of GK are unique doesn't mean they dont have overlap with other marines.

I'd argue the Terminators and Apothecary are different (GK Termies don't get power fists or twin LC/THSS combos, and GK Apothecaries wear Terminator armour, unlike regular Marines).

However, very much agreed on the rest. Still, I'd say that GK aren't the same as all the other Marine types, due to psychic powers, a very different core to their army, and no access to Primaris units.

sharing a few tanks isn't that big a deal eaither, Sisters of battle and custodes share a few tanks with marines too

 Unit1126PLL wrote:



Right, and if you took Tyranids and Eldar in an Unbound army they'd still get Synapse and Battle Focus respectively.

Taking multiple gods in the same detachment is more akin to taking Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than it is to taking Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment. That was the point and I stand by it.

Sorry, then you're just wrong, and no, you can't just sweep the fact that they lose CP under the rug, especially in a post-Engine Wars world my man.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:



Right, and if you took Tyranids and Eldar in an Unbound army they'd still get Synapse and Battle Focus respectively.

Taking multiple gods in the same detachment is more akin to taking Eldar and Tyranids in the same detachment than it is to taking Ultramarines and Blood Angels in the same detachment. That was the point and I stand by it.

Sorry, then you're just wrong, and no, you can't just sweep the fact that they lose CP under the rug, especially in a post-Engine Wars world my man.

Ultramarines + Angel's = CP, a huge number of stratagems, and some bonus rules
Tyranids + Eldar = No benefit
Daemon + Different Damon = CP, a few stratagems

Saying he is "just wrong" is to misunderstand the subjective nature of his argument. And regardless, he would still have a point in daemons of different gods getting notably less for working together than marines from entirely different codex.