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Hey Folks,

Many of the frequent customers in my local gaming store are already boycotting games against (Primaris) Space Marines or are planning to do so in the near future especially under consideration of the new leaks.

Others are enforcing artificial restraints (2000pts game, marines get only 1750). Is my area an exception or are we going to see this modus operandi being more and more acceptable?

I don't think this will become the norm, but it's pretty clear that people are getting really fed up at the super imbalance with Marines right now.

I don't think we'll see any major changes until the new Codex, but if that doesn't fix the problem GW is going to have to take some kind of action or it's going to seriously risk bleeding away players at the start of the edition, which is the last thing it wants.

I already enforce rules at the local club. I bring a super competitive list and if you don’t bring a hugely underpowered list, with at least 500 points less and the ability for me to manually change any of your dice rolls I wish, I don’t play you.

Also I don’t play them if they wear a cap or are taller than me.

I already considered not playing against SM to keep the game fun for me, but I want to play a few games first to decide by myself. The Internet may be convincing sometimes but the meta isn't the same everywhere, and nothing beats making its own opinion. Also, I'm playing an army that is considered Tier 1 so far by some people on Youtube, I think I'll manage better than say a Khorne army.

But I don't think there'll be a mass ban like you guys planned. A lot of players here are SM players, and they want to play the game too. Some are playing thematic armies more built on rule of cool than competitiveness and I'd be happy to play against them.

A few players in my group, myself included, have said they wont play against space Marines with some of their armies (Nids, Eldar, GSC, etc.) But will with other SM, Necrons, etc.

Its less about a boycott and more about trying to have a fun game while keeping it balanced. I'm sure there will be a whole spectrum of things seen, the norm will probably turn to quiet discontent I think

I think we're seeing a lot of changes out of context. If these stat changes come without any changes to points costs, stratagems, special rules on the weapons, weapon availability, etc. when the Codex lands people might be grouchy, but in the immediate future I think we're going to keep playing with the existing rules and nobody's going to be particularly bothered. Imagine, for the moment, that these D4 Thunderhammers come with a rule that mean you make fewer attacks when using them and the effective average damage per attack is significantly reduced. Whether or not that change is likely the simple fact that we haven't even seen the special rules text for the units/weapons we're seeing stat changes to doesn't mean anything.

I'd be very surprised.

Also you have literally no info about the codex so why bother to boycott playing against someone that happened to choose the good army? That's like refusing to play against Genestealer cults because they suck.

Boycott buying GW's printed materials if you want to actually make a difference. You won't though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sumilidon wrote:
I already enforce rules at the local club. I bring a super competitive list and if you don’t bring a hugely underpowered list, with at least 500 points less and the ability for me to manually change any of your dice rolls I wish, I don’t play you.

Also I don’t play them if they wear a cap or are taller than me.

Exalt to you for this amazing post

Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

As for boycott, no, I don't plan on boycotting any army - I played against WFB Daemons in 7th, and if you did as well, you know the current SM Codex is nothing in comparison.

I do consider boycotting dakka until the codex drops though: the amount of hyperbole, salt and whine here (not to mention off-topic posts regarding SM OP:ness everywhere, even in topics who have nothing to do with SM in the first place) is just getting to a point where I just get tired, slightly depressed even, when I browse the forum.
Whineseer had some moments where it was really bad, but I wonder if the current state of the community on dakka doesn't beat it. The only thing that unites many of the members here at the moment is hate of a part of the game they claim to enjoy... Topics like this one.

Mierce & Infinity minatures look real good... All ima say

Personally taking probably about a year off until more codexes drop and things level out. The stat inflation which appears to be on the horizon does not bode well.. As things are Ive lost all enthusiasm for the game and thus GW has certainly been making less money off me.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

Yes, because points dont change when a new codex comes out. The current points will be valid until december, when CA 2020 comes out.

SM have a vast range, all the long time players with classic marines models are always welcome. It's the average primaris army that gives problem, because no matter what's in it it's always quite competitive. As always people will avoid disgustingly unbalanced games, in one way or another.

If a player has an army that is impossible to defeat it's perfectly fine to avoid playing against him until there's a chance to play a reasonably fair match. It's absolutely normal in 40k, nothing new.

 p5freak wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

Yes, because points dont change when a new codex comes out. The current points will be valid until december, when CA 2020 comes out.

Since when? Points change all the time when a new Codex comes out.

A boycott on someone’s toy soldiers?

 p5freak wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

Yes, because points dont change when a new codex comes out. The current points will be valid until december, when CA 2020 comes out.

Is this sarcasm or do you actually believe that? I really can't tell.

To be fair it's really a general 9th edition points problem aswell as Marines still being the codex by which all other shall be measured by that contributes to peoplr not wanting to play marine's.

They have been rofl stomping people for the end of 8th and seem to have walked into 9th without loosing their power.

Not to mention that xeno players still have no word on of they're gettting new codex's and if so will they be in 2021 or 2022.

So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Unless GW show Xeno some love 9th will be the edition that turns warhammer into 40k Death to the Traitors edition.
Fight Epic battles as Cawls new super marines set out to wipeout those marines who turned thier backs upon the guiding light of the imperium"

Manous wrote:
Hey Folks,

Many of the frequent customers in my local gaming store are already boycotting games against (Primaris) Space Marines or are planning to do so in the near future especially under consideration of the new leaks.

Others are enforcing artificial restraints (2000pts game, marines get only 1750). Is my area an exception or are we going to see this modus operandi being more and more acceptable?

Nope, this is just going to be one of those bizarre internet over-reactions that people stereotype over.

No. Why on Earth would I?

Seriously, this has to be the most "peak Dakka" thread I have ever seen.

 Cheex wrote:
No. Why on Earth would I?

Seriously, this has to be the most "peak Dakka" thread I have ever seen.

I'm stealing this

Ice_can wrote:
So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Arguing that marines are OP based on unit and weapon profiles is ridiculous when you don't know ANYTHING surrounding that. Until we have the full picture, there's really no point in discussing those changes in terms of balance. BANNING entire factions for incomplete leaks is just ridiculous.
"peak Dakka" indeed

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Arguing that marines are OP based on unit and weapon profiles is ridiculous when you don't know ANYTHING surrounding that. Until we have the full picture, there's really no point in discussing those changes in terms of balance. BANNING entire factions for incomplete leaks is just ridiculous.
"peak Dakka" indeed

We honestly got bored of the "wait and see" logic that many of your fellow SM players seem to apply at will when it concerns power armor boyz.
9TH Marines won't suddendly make Marines unviable and other factions better, rest assured that we're going to have them at the top table for far longer than we could expect.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

As for boycott, no, I don't plan on boycotting any army - I played against WFB Daemons in 7th, and if you did as well, you know the current SM Codex is nothing in comparison.

I do consider boycotting dakka until the codex drops though: the amount of hyperbole, salt and whine here (not to mention off-topic posts regarding SM OP:ness everywhere, even in topics who have nothing to do with SM in the first place) is just getting to a point where I just get tired, slightly depressed even, when I browse the forum.
Whineseer had some moments where it was really bad, but I wonder if the current state of the community on dakka doesn't beat it. The only thing that unites many of the members here at the moment is hate of a part of the game they claim to enjoy... Topics like this one.

Seeing track record with marines and GW being favouring master faction vs the NPC's...yeah.

Look at the balance ATM. Is that really what needs even more buffs? You are kidding yourself if you think GW will actually nerf their poster boys that are designed so that timmy 12 yo's can feel heroic smashing NPC's left and right


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 p5freak wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

Yes, because points dont change when a new codex comes out. The current points will be valid until december, when CA 2020 comes out.

CA2020 already came. Any book after that is the valid book so points in marine codex are valid until CA2021 comes.

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Arguing that marines are OP based on unit and weapon profiles is ridiculous when you don't know ANYTHING surrounding that. Until we have the full picture, there's really no point in discussing those changes in terms of balance. BANNING entire factions for incomplete leaks is just ridiculous.
"peak Dakka" indeed

Yes just like 2.0 + supplement "news" that were being drip fed.
I distinctly remember people constantly saying "ohh just wait and and see youre jumpng to conclusions. You don't have a full picture"

So you know.. we been here already.

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Arguing that marines are OP based on unit and weapon profiles is ridiculous when you don't know ANYTHING surrounding that. Until we have the full picture, there's really no point in discussing those changes in terms of balance. BANNING entire factions for incomplete leaks is just ridiculous.
"peak Dakka" indeed

People said what you are saying pre-marine codex 2.0. They were proven sort of right. It was even worse than prediction.

GW isn't subtle. GW isn't affraid of shouting their marketing ploy in advance. 9th ed what's good and what's bad was pretty much known may-early june and has panned out as predictions were.

It's really easy to figure out what GW wants you to buy. They aren't subtle about it...They WANT you to know it.

tneva82 wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

As for boycott, no, I don't plan on boycotting any army - I played against WFB Daemons in 7th, and if you did as well, you know the current SM Codex is nothing in comparison.

I do consider boycotting dakka until the codex drops though: the amount of hyperbole, salt and whine here (not to mention off-topic posts regarding SM OP:ness everywhere, even in topics who have nothing to do with SM in the first place) is just getting to a point where I just get tired, slightly depressed even, when I browse the forum.
Whineseer had some moments where it was really bad, but I wonder if the current state of the community on dakka doesn't beat it. The only thing that unites many of the members here at the moment is hate of a part of the game they claim to enjoy... Topics like this one.

Seeing track record with marines and GW being favouring master faction vs the NPC's...yeah.

Look at the balance ATM. Is that really what needs even more buffs? You are kidding yourself if you think GW will actually nerf their poster boys that are designed so that timmy 12 yo's can feel heroic smashing NPC's left and right


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

Yes, because points dont change when a new codex comes out. The current points will be valid until december, when CA 2020 comes out.

CA2020 already came. Any book after that is the valid book so points in marine codex are valid until CA2021 comes.

The only real answers we will get in order to draw proper conclusion is the october codexes release.
Not saying these data sheets are not valid but... GW be GW.

Unlikely in my area, but of the four players that own marines only two consider them their primary army and only one of those two doesn't have an alternative. Ironically the guy who doesn't have anything besides Primaris also has the second worst win rate in the group.

The Newman wrote:
Unlikely in my area, but of the four players that own marines only two consider them their primary army and only one of those two doesn't have an alternative. Ironically the guy who doesn't have anything besides Primaris also has the second worst win rate in the group.

but but but primaris are OP god mode! he should be domianting you!

BrianDavion wrote:

The Newman wrote:
Unlikely in my area, but of the four players that own marines only two consider them their primary army and only one of those two doesn't have an alternative. Ironically the guy who doesn't have anything besides Primaris also has the second worst win rate in the group.

but but but primaris are OP god mode! he should be domianting you!

A bad player can screw up with a great army.

tneva82 wrote:

nekooni wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
So far the leaked info for Marine's 3.0 isn't really toning them down from 2.0 power levels.

Arguing that marines are OP based on unit and weapon profiles is ridiculous when you don't know ANYTHING surrounding that. Until we have the full picture, there's really no point in discussing those changes in terms of balance. BANNING entire factions for incomplete leaks is just ridiculous.
"peak Dakka" indeed

People said what you are saying pre-marine codex 2.0. They were proven sort of right. It was even worse than prediction.

GW isn't subtle. GW isn't affraid of shouting their marketing ploy in advance. 9th ed what's good and what's bad was pretty much known may-early june and has panned out as predictions were.

It's really easy to figure out what GW wants you to buy. They aren't subtle about it...They WANT you to know it.

9th edition "what's good and what's bad" was known once we had the leaked points values. Combining that with all of the already known unit profiles it was clear GW fethed up, but that's it. Same applies here. Yes, at least some Marine units are clearly getting buffs, stats-wise, but I expect them to also update their cost.

Seeing track record with marines and GW being favouring master faction vs the NPC's...yeah.

What track record, though? you realize that means more than "well Codex 2.0 for 8th edition was OP for like the end of 8th and start of 9th edition", right?

Marines are a problem.

They may or may not be leagues above the rest at high level competitive play. Expert opinion seems divided; while highly rated, Marines are not universally and unequivocally listed as top dogs, and I am no tournament-level expert when it comes to 8th/9th to say they're right or wrong. But I can tell you that at low level play, they're *disgusting,* and not fun to play against.

And casual level play is important. I'm trying to introduce a number of new and decade-old returning players to the game over Tabletop Simulator, and get a Crusade going when they (and I, being a returning player myself) have the basics down. One of our returning players is a longtime fan of Marines and it was just... unpleasant to watch his Primaris Salamanders utterly roll over a newbie CSM player. I genuinely felt a little queasy to watch them stack bonus after bonus "just because Marines" against this bewildered player and another spectator openly wondering why Marines got all this. We weren't even using non-Core stratagems yet, and while I'm not 100% certain of this, I somehow doubt that the addition of stratagems from codexes and supplements would have overall favored the Chaos player.

At the very least, I felt compelled to tell the Salamanders player to hold off playing Marines until everyone else is experienced enough to understand the rules. I felt bad for doing it, but I would have felt worse for everyone who had to fight him.

Is a boycott the solution?... Well...

"Please don't bring the Marines" is fairer to ask when dealing with Tabletop Simulator, where everyone can switch armies in minutes. It's a much thornier subject when someone spent hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours bringing something to the tabletop, only to be told that people don't want to play with them because GW can't update rules all at once. At the same time, I would understand those who don't want to play against them, because they're layered with so many special rules to deal with so much that it's just not fun to fight them or watch them fight, and why play a game that won't be fun? The changes on the boxes, if applied to Marines before everyone else, will only make this so much worse until the other codexes can be brought in line.

I don't think you get an organized boycott of Marines, so much as people going "Wanna play your non-Marines against my Marines?" and the response from non-marines being "...nah."