Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Arko wrote:
All the people being salty here are playing the game since 6 months or have a VERY bad memory.

EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

The truth is, it's more of a SM haters band wagon thing here...

Oh, I've seen games refused against Tau and Eldar in their respective heydeys.

But did everyone called for a boycott on all forums?

This thread is dumb and OP should feel bad for posting it.

Just my two cents.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Arko wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Arko wrote:
All the people being salty here are playing the game since 6 months or have a VERY bad memory.

EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

The truth is, it's more of a SM haters band wagon thing here...

Oh, I've seen games refused against Tau and Eldar in their respective heydeys.

But did everyone called for a boycott on all forums?

7e Eldar? Pretty sure there were folks calling for a boycott (or for Eldar to be Squatted, or for all Eldar players to be burned at the stake) back then.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
7e Eldar? Pretty sure there were folks calling for a boycott (or for Eldar to be Squatted, or for all Eldar players to be burned at the stake) back then.

Yes. Pretty much constantly.

The idea this is a new thing is weird.

As said, if they buff everyone else, it could work. But if it gets to Christmas and all we have is wall to wall Marines, going to feel kind of bad. World depending, I'd hope tournaments can pick up in 2021.

I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Arko wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Arko wrote:
All the people being salty here are playing the game since 6 months or have a VERY bad memory.

EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

The truth is, it's more of a SM haters band wagon thing here...

Oh, I've seen games refused against Tau and Eldar in their respective heydeys.

But did everyone called for a boycott on all forums?

7e Eldar? Pretty sure there were folks calling for a boycott (or for Eldar to be Squatted, or for all Eldar players to be burned at the stake) back then.

I called for squatting but for Kelley himself rather than the codex.

 Arko wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Arko wrote:
All the people being salty here are playing the game since 6 months or have a VERY bad memory.

EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

The truth is, it's more of a SM haters band wagon thing here...

Oh, I've seen games refused against Tau and Eldar in their respective heydeys.

But did everyone called for a boycott on all forums?

Yes, they did. Multiple times.
Guard and GK in 5th.
Tzeench Daemons, Nids and taudar in 6th
Eldar, Necrons and Marines in 7th
Knights and Dual Primarchs in 8th
I used to have a very long list of reasons why people on dakka would refuse games, but it got lost due to me forgetting to migrate a folder from my old machine to a new one.

Never boycotting anything, but I go into games with different expectations.

I usually eyeball the list I'm up against before the game, and if I find it much more OP than my list I don't care so much about losing, just having a fun game.

If the lists somewhat match >70 % in power, I appreciate the win much more and if I lose, it feels much more sore

Primaris lists in late 8th edition was almost always a game for fun (except for that one dude playing white scars. Felt kinda nice to see the poster boys back where they belong.

 Arko wrote:
I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

I mean you can just rub different colourt power armoured together for the next 1-2 years right?

 Arko wrote:


EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

There absolutely were calls for bans/boycotts of factions like Eldar in previous editions, IIRC we had a 40something page here on Dakka for the 7E book about that. It was silly back then too, but the issue *was* raised.

 Arko wrote:
I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

Pepperidge farm remembers the call for Craftworld boycotts.

In the end it is up to each and every individual player who they want to play with. As long as people are respectful it should be easy to just say "Sorry, I am not interested in a game right now." No need to insult or calling anyone out.

 Argive wrote:

 Arko wrote:
I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

I mean you can just rub different colourt power armoured together for the next 1-2 years right?

Tell me how boycotting random customers will change anything to the SM rules?

If you want To make your voice heard, stop buying GW products, companies only understand money.

Or better : get over it. As I said, in every edition there is a top codex, you are all acting like this is something new.

 Arko wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Arko wrote:
I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

I mean you can just rub different colourt power armoured together for the next 1-2 years right?

Tell me how boycotting random customers will change anything to the SM rules?

If you want To make your voice heard, stop buying GW products, companies only understand money.

Or better : get over it. As I said, in every edition there is a top codex, you are all acting like this is something new.

Yeah every time I tell people to just not buy the printed rules and just download them if you REALLY want them, they gotta be all the sudden feeling morally superior and say I'm a terrible person. Yet they wonder why GW keeps making stupid rules decisions and having the audacity to charge them big money for it. They seem to never connect the two together.

"My codex is overpowered: get over it. But keep playing games with me! Not playing games with me because I run the overpowered faction you can't compete with is super unfair!" doesn't strike me as a particularly great pitch to make to people.

Note, I'm not saying it'll necessarily turn out that way. But if it does turn out that way, it's truly silly to expect people to want to keep playing games against a faction they just get roflstomped by. If GW continues to lavish attention and overpowered rules on Marines, there will certainly come a point where many or most 40k players not playing marines armies just aren't interested in playing against them, and that's totally natural and to be expected. The fault lies with GW in that instance, not with players who are tired of getting stomped by an overtuned book.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

I know you said this yesterday, but I only just got to this thread and this comment did not age well haha.

True, you're right, they're not 15pt tacticals. They're 18 points. So they're 9ppw. So they're essentially the same cost as Storm guardians (one of the worst Eldar units, in a sea of really bad units) per wound, but with... basically a +1 to every single stat, plus a ranged weapon, plus a range buff to that weapon, plus an AP buff to their melee option.

Against normal guardians... for 2 points -more-, guardians get 2 extra shots up to 12", but nothing at all beyond that. Tacticals get 2 extra shots from 12-15", and 1 extra shot up to 30". They also get the usual +1S +1T, and 2+ to their saves. So the same number of wounds (for 2 points less, remember), but each of those wounds is significantly more durable (T3 vs T4 is already a huge jump, 5+ to 3+ is another huge jump).

So yeh, tacs at 18ppm are already a bargain.

edit: Hmm, the post I was responding to seems to have been deleted, so never mind.

 Arko wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Arko wrote:
I must have missed those Eldar boycott calls because this is the first time I see this kind of thread.

In any case, calling for a boycott is childish, why punish the players for the errors of a company? That makes no sense at all.

Imagine being a new player, who's happy to play his first games, and being called out, nearly insulted and boycotted because you had the audacity to chose the SM?

What a world we live in

I mean you can just rub different colourt power armoured together for the next 1-2 years right?

Tell me how boycotting random customers will change anything to the SM rules?

If you want To make your voice heard, stop buying GW products, companies only understand money.

Or better : get over it. As I said, in every edition there is a top codex, you are all acting like this is something new.

eh ?

Its exactly what I'm doing. I regret investing into Indomitus for the BRB already.. It was free after selling the box but certainly regret even buying it.. Certainly not spending any more ££ with GW for the forseeable future, I'm looking at Mierces Darklands and inffinity instead and focusing on the P&M side of things, where as pre 9th I was predominantly a gamer. As things are I'm not going to be playing many, if any games either because I have lost any enthusiasm I had for the edition.
This also means certainly playing against non marines as opposed to marines if there is a choice. Because Id rather have a fun even game where both of us have fun and pick what we want rather than one of having to severely tone down or the other person gets curb stomped.

Its obviously not a problem coz people can just pit their marines together as everyone has a space marine army allegedly..
Its GWs problem not mine if that ends up pushing people away from the game.

Niiru wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

I know you said this yesterday, but I only just got to this thread and this comment did not age well haha.

True, you're right, they're not 15pt tacticals. They're 18 points. So they're 9ppw. So they're essentially the same cost as Storm guardians (one of the worst Eldar units, in a sea of really bad units) per wound, but with... basically a +1 to every single stat, plus a ranged weapon, plus a range buff to that weapon, plus an AP buff to their melee option.

Against normal guardians... for 2 points -more-, guardians get 2 extra shots up to 12", but nothing at all beyond that. Tacticals get 2 extra shots from 12-15", and 1 extra shot up to 30". They also get the usual +1S +1T, and 2+ to their saves. So the same number of wounds (for 2 points less, remember), but each of those wounds is significantly more durable (T3 vs T4 is already a huge jump, 5+ to 3+ is another huge jump).

So yeh, tacs at 18ppm are already a bargain.

I thought it aged really well?

I expected Tacticals to become ~18 ppm and thats exactly where they ended up.
Assuming they would become 19-20 would be foolish because then they would literally be Intercessors but with less attacks and a worse gun.

And I really don't see the relevance in comparing them to Storm Guardians or Guardian Defenders. Apples and Oranges much?
Storm Guardians are literally one of the worst units in the game (and have been for like, 17+ years) and Guardian Defenders are in a weird place now and are in a dire need ( ) of some tuning.

 MinscS2 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Don't think I've ever seen this amount of hyperbole on dakkadakka before.

Do people genuinely believe that several marine-units will get +1W without any changes to their pointcost? That we'll see 15 ppm Tacticals, 17 ppm Sternguard, etc, with 2 wounds?

I think a lot of people will feel dumb and end up being wrong in their predictions when the codex drops, but this being the internet they won't admit to having been wrong, they'll just go back to complain about something (else).

I know you said this yesterday, but I only just got to this thread and this comment did not age well haha.

True, you're right, they're not 15pt tacticals. They're 18 points. So they're 9ppw. So they're essentially the same cost as Storm guardians (one of the worst Eldar units, in a sea of really bad units) per wound, but with... basically a +1 to every single stat, plus a ranged weapon, plus a range buff to that weapon, plus an AP buff to their melee option.

Against normal guardians... for 2 points -more-, guardians get 2 extra shots up to 12", but nothing at all beyond that. Tacticals get 2 extra shots from 12-15", and 1 extra shot up to 30". They also get the usual +1S +1T, and 2+ to their saves. So the same number of wounds (for 2 points less, remember), but each of those wounds is significantly more durable (T3 vs T4 is already a huge jump, 5+ to 3+ is another huge jump).

So yeh, tacs at 18ppm are already a bargain.

I thought it aged really well?

I expected Tacticals to become ~18 ppm and thats exactly where they ended up.
Assuming they would become 19-20 would be foolish because then they would literally be Intercessors but with less attacks and a worse gun.

And I really don't see the relevance in comparing them to Storm Guardians or Guardian Defenders. Apples and Oranges much?
Storm Guardians are literally one of the worst units in the game (and have been for like, 17+ years) and Guardian Defenders are in a weird place now and are in a dire need ( ) of some tuning.

Towards end of 8th stormies at 6ppm were really good IMO for filling out detachments as well as loading up on a fusion for expert crafters. A unit of 16-24 with celestial shield+protect would hold whatever objectives you wanted and screen for 2 turns while everything esle goes to work. Now.. well... now the troops choice is more of a ball and chain than it ever was and it was pretty ball and chain already.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Arko wrote:


EVERY 40k edition had a codex who was WAY above the others (Haines chaos codex, necron flying spam, SW, not ever mentioning Eldars who were ALWAYS in top 3 no matter the edition), but no one ever called for a boycott so what the heck?

There absolutely were calls for bans/boycotts of factions like Eldar in previous editions, IIRC we had a 40something page here on Dakka for the 7E book about that. It was silly back then too, but the issue *was* raised.

Difference is, those Eldar lists were using specific units that used broken rules, that were never updated and TFG would exploit them.

Everyone who just played the game normally had fairly average lists.

With newmarines, it's basically impossible to bring an underpowered list. Unless you .... only take scouts in rhinos?

People who buy space marines want space marines and terminators. And they're now all obscenely points-efficient.

Yeah, the problem with new marines is the way the faction is overpowered is just in their general overlapping special rules, not a few gimmick units. It makes you have to really go out of your way to take a space marine list that won't roflstomp the casual list of another faction. Meanwhile for those other factions, you have to take carefully designed competitive lists to have a real chance, you can't play the fun stuff you want to play if you want a realistic chance of winning.

At the tournament level, where everyone runs the most carefully engineered competitive list they can, the overpoweredness of space marines is actually much lower than it is at the casual level.

Manous wrote:
Hey Folks,

Many of the frequent customers in my local gaming store are already boycotting games against (Primaris) Space Marines or are planning to do so in the near future especially under consideration of the new leaks.

Others are enforcing artificial restraints (2000pts game, marines get only 1750). Is my area an exception or are we going to see this modus operandi being more and more acceptable?

Did the shop owner tell these people to stop crying and feth off? This kind of backlash is ludicrous. Today is the day I finally lost respect for the community of this game.

yukishiro1 wrote:
"My codex is overpowered: get over it. But keep playing games with me! Not playing games with me because I run the overpowered faction you can't compete with is super unfair!" doesn't strike me as a particularly great pitch to make to people.

Note, I'm not saying it'll necessarily turn out that way. But if it does turn out that way, it's truly silly to expect people to want to keep playing games against a faction they just get roflstomped by. If GW continues to lavish attention and overpowered rules on Marines, there will certainly come a point where many or most 40k players not playing marines armies just aren't interested in playing against them, and that's totally natural and to be expected. The fault lies with GW in that instance, not with players who are tired of getting stomped by an overtuned book.

I played from 3th To 7th edition a lot, I played almost all of the armies , I still got most of them , who said I'm a SM player only? Guess what I NEVER played an army when it was top codex in my life because it's not interesting to play with in the first place...Close games are way more funnier and interesting than stomp or getting stomped.

I missed the 8th edition, I didn't even know which army was strong or not when I came back a month ago, I chose Primaris because I like the minis, and now I see threads like this, where people say that "SM player should be ashamed To play SM" I mean come on...Imagine the new player reading this, what will he thinks about the community?

As all of you, I don't like the fact that a codex is far superior than the others, that's hot healthy for the game, but again, refusing to play against a random person just because he plays SM makes no sense at all. Blame GW, mail them, stop buying there products, boycott them, but not the players...

You can keep saying it makes no sense, but the point is that lots of people disagree with you. It makes all the sense in the world to many people not to play games they have no chance of winning and won't enjoy because the result is preordained.

If someone enjoys 40k generally, but does not enjoy games against a specific faction because it's too overpowered, why are you telling them they're wrong to only play games they like, or telling them their only option is to quit playing the game entirely if they're tired of being roflstomped by an overtuned codex?

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can keep saying it makes no sense, but the point is that lots of people disagree with you. It makes all the sense in the world to many people not to play games they have no chance of winning and won't enjoy because the result is preordained.

If someone enjoys 40k generally, but does not enjoy games against a specific faction because it's too overpowered, why are you telling them they're wrong to only play games they like, or telling them their only option is to quit playing the game entirely if they're tired of being roflstomped by an overtuned codex?

except we've seen none of the other codexes and have no idea beyond useless statistics hammer if the codex is op or not. It's been my experience that Math hammer is usually horrendously wrong in terms of what is deemed OP. I remember when they were math hammering all the broken OPness of Eliminators, a Primaris unit that I've never once seen anyone field. Ever. Generally math hammer leads to overreactions and a lot of "Oh yeah, well if..." arguments.

 Arko wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
"My codex is overpowered: get over it. But keep playing games with me! Not playing games with me because I run the overpowered faction you can't compete with is super unfair!" doesn't strike me as a particularly great pitch to make to people.

Note, I'm not saying it'll necessarily turn out that way. But if it does turn out that way, it's truly silly to expect people to want to keep playing games against a faction they just get roflstomped by. If GW continues to lavish attention and overpowered rules on Marines, there will certainly come a point where many or most 40k players not playing marines armies just aren't interested in playing against them, and that's totally natural and to be expected. The fault lies with GW in that instance, not with players who are tired of getting stomped by an overtuned book.

I played from 3th To 7th edition a lot, I played almost all of the armies , I still got most of them , who said I'm a SM player only? Guess what I NEVER played an army when it was top codex in my life because it's not interesting to play with in the first place...Close games are way more funnier and interesting than stomp or getting stomped.

I missed the 8th edition, I didn't even know which army was strong or not when I came back a month ago, I chose Primaris because I like the minis, and now I see threads like this, where people say that "SM player should be ashamed To play SM" I mean come on...Imagine the new player reading this, what will he thinks about the community?

As all of you, I don't like the fact that a codex is far superior than the others, that's hot healthy for the game, but again, refusing to play against a random person just because he plays SM makes no sense at all. Blame GW, mail them, stop buying there products, boycott them, but not the players...

Maybe like.. you can email GW and tell them them people dont want to play against your army??

You mean people like OP, who wants To boycott a large portion of the players, or those who're saying that SM players should be ashamed To play them? Such common sense, yeah, blame, ban and boycott the players instead of the one making the rules...
You're the type of people who will blame an entire country's population for the acts of their corrupted politics...

When I see your second sentence, I can tell that you obviously can't read mate, I NEVER said that they should quit, on the contrary I said that they should still playing, get over it, and blame the real guilty ones : GW.

 Togusa wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can keep saying it makes no sense, but the point is that lots of people disagree with you. It makes all the sense in the world to many people not to play games they have no chance of winning and won't enjoy because the result is preordained.

If someone enjoys 40k generally, but does not enjoy games against a specific faction because it's too overpowered, why are you telling them they're wrong to only play games they like, or telling them their only option is to quit playing the game entirely if they're tired of being roflstomped by an overtuned codex?

except we've seen none of the other codexes and have no idea beyond useless statistics hammer if the codex is op or not. It's been my experience that Math hammer is usually horrendously wrong in terms of what is deemed OP. I remember when they were math hammering all the broken OPness of Eliminators, a Primaris unit that I've never once seen anyone field. Ever. Generally math hammer leads to overreactions and a lot of "Oh yeah, well if..." arguments.

you diidnt see 3x3 eliminator units in all those IH lists crushing Gts ? Intersting.. Must have Imagined Navatis IH list.
Remmeber how everyone said IH are just stupidly broken. and lo and behold... we saw IH crush left right and center warranting about 3 rounds of nerfs?

This song and dance goes on every time there's clearly something that anyone with basic understanding of the game can tell is a bit too strong. Every. Time.
invictor wart suits... "Ohh they will be fine people are just exagarating its a problem to have 3 dreds start the game 9" away from your army"
Impulsor "ohh ots crap it doesnt have any guns etc etc." caps objectives, shuts down shooting and tanks on a 4++ while flying around screening and protects the most points efficient troop choice in the game for 80pts

We haven't even seen eradicators in action properly due to covid...
And now 2 W tacs..

Its ludacris at this point i think a lot of people are surprised as they didint sign up to play Indomitus Heresyy 41k..

 Argive wrote:

 Arko wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
"My codex is overpowered: get over it. But keep playing games with me! Not playing games with me because I run the overpowered faction you can't compete with is super unfair!" doesn't strike me as a particularly great pitch to make to people.

Note, I'm not saying it'll necessarily turn out that way. But if it does turn out that way, it's truly silly to expect people to want to keep playing games against a faction they just get roflstomped by. If GW continues to lavish attention and overpowered rules on Marines, there will certainly come a point where many or most 40k players not playing marines armies just aren't interested in playing against them, and that's totally natural and to be expected. The fault lies with GW in that instance, not with players who are tired of getting stomped by an overtuned book.

I played from 3th To 7th edition a lot, I played almost all of the armies , I still got most of them , who said I'm a SM player only? Guess what I NEVER played an army when it was top codex in my life because it's not interesting to play with in the first place...Close games are way more funnier and interesting than stomp or getting stomped.

I missed the 8th edition, I didn't even know which army was strong or not when I came back a month ago, I chose Primaris because I like the minis, and now I see threads like this, where people say that "SM player should be ashamed To play SM" I mean come on...Imagine the new player reading this, what will he thinks about the community?

As all of you, I don't like the fact that a codex is far superior than the others, that's hot healthy for the game, but again, refusing to play against a random person just because he plays SM makes no sense at all. Blame GW, mail them, stop buying there products, boycott them, but not the players...

Maybe like.. you can email GW and tell them them people dont want to play against your army??

My god you people can't read your own language, read again the first sentence of what you just quoted, and tell me again it's MY army lol

And I don't need to mail them, because I know GW well, and I know there will always be a top codex, so I Guess I...got over it, a thing I hope you'll learn To do, because real life will litteraly eat you alive if you don't

I mean it's established that we hate on the players for GWs ineptitude. Accusations of WAAC or shaming people for not tuning their lists down (to what level? No one knows) claims of "can't be the game, you're just playing on planet bowling ball" etc.