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Abaddon303 wrote:
Another thing I mathhammered is people's fear that Mortarion is gonna get wiped out by melta with the new DR rules being weaker. In fact, at T8 and -1 to damage, he actually requires more hits to kill him than he did at T7 and the 5+++.
I have plotted the difference in the graph below. Yellow is old Morty and Blue is new Morty. 6 damage melta used to take 6 hits to kill him while now it will require 7.2...

I did the same math and I don’t think your numbers are correct. I show it takes over 20 hits to bring him down. 10 of those wound, 5 of those fail the 4++. Average damage per hit after modifiers 3.5. Even if I am off I do t how you come to only needing 6 hits, with 3 wounds and 1.5 failed saves can do 18 wounds.

Yeh I've not taken into account the save so all the number of shots should be doubled lol. It doesn't actually change the graph shape tho tbh.

The reason I plotted it in a graph is because of the variable damage of melta and the way the new DR reduces in effectiveness as damage per shot increases. My summary was for full 6 damage melta and should have read 13.2 hits previously and 14.4 hits now.

And you're right, at the 3.5 average damage it would previously have taken 23.2 hits, that is now 28.8 hits.
23 hits, 15 wounds, 7.5 failed saves at 3.5 damage = 26 damage. Disgustingly resilient would save 8 = 18 damage
28 hits, 14 wounds, 7 failed saves at 2.5 damage = 17.5 damage

The point where Morty's old profile is actually better is when the damage of each shot reaches 9 or more which is obviously very very rare.

So tellingly it will still take around 9 hits by heavy melta eradicators at under 12" and rolling 6s for damage to kill him and they are supposed to be the most efficient anti tank/monster in the game right now!

pity that now mortal wounds wipe out DG models, now we cant stop them like before
So no new dr is NOT like old dr. Now EVERY dg model is less resilient.

Infantry has gotten extra wounds though, so plague marines actually can tank more mortal wounds now, while Terminators and Possessed have remained the same.

 Jidmah wrote:
Infantry has gotten extra wounds though, so plague marines actually can tank more mortal wounds now, while Terminators and Possessed have remained the same.

dream is beautiful, so i wont ruin it, i tell you then you are right.

Math is not a matter of opinion.

And if you start off being impolite right of the bat again, I would prefer you staying away.

Vehicles are where we took a large hit in resilience. For infantry in some instances the new DR is a massive buff and others it was a nerf. Honestly, it all depends on the points before we can say anything.

I have now played 2 games using the new DG rules against Blood Angels and we seem like the natural counter to them. All their damage 2 melee weapons were very inefficient against my T5 and new -1 Damage DR rules. This combined with the -1 AP and -1T sure we gained mean DG can absorb a BA charge a hit back pretty hard.

I don't think anyone is trying to claim that new Disgustingly Resilient is better than the old one, it clearly, mathematically isn't.
.
What I was trying to do was maybe reduce the doom and gloom a little.

Mortarion going to T8 has categorically made him more resistant to melta than he is now.

3MWs used to kill a single terminator. It still does. 2MWs had a strong chance of killing a terminator now it doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not even sure it's that large a hit to vehicle resilience tbh. It's better against 2 and 3 damage attacks. I'm not sure our vehicles were getting peppered by many 1D shots so really what was consistently hitting our vehicles that did 4+ damage?
Lascannons/Melta average 3.5 damage, even the max 6 damage Lascannon has gone from doing 4w to 5w. So it used to take 3 to kill a PBC and it still takes 3.
Myphitic Blight Haulers have gained a wound, Bloat Drones no longer degrade.
It's very hard to assess all of the changes we are seeing but I really don't think we are going to be finding that we're significantly less resilient, especially given how we are certainly going to be putting out more damage which in turn helps survivability...

Check out the new points. GW gave us all the point values for the new codex.

If this is an indication of what they'll be in the codex then I'm pretty happy with the new points.

Really, the new codex should be out now as well so I am hoping we won't see another change.

Wel we now know that the blightlords at a minimum now have a 5++. They have actually gone down in points. The million dollar question is did the Deathshroud keep their 4++ or get a 5++ also.

Also, 21pt plague marines are better than I expected, but the 140-MBH is more than I expected. Though in my play testing with the new rules showed it was a very strong unit.

Personaly i think 140pts is not to bad as long as the MBH keeps its shroud aura

MBH at 140pts compared to a helbrute at 115 for MM and missile launcher.

MBH is 2" faster and has an extra wound and -2AP on it's attacks. It's also got a 5+ invulnerable save.

I guess that's just about worth 25pts? I guess really it's a wait and see scenario on whether Helbrutes get DR, what ends up with core keyword, whether the MBH keeps its cover aura etc

For me it will be hard to justify a MBH over a PBC. For not much more you get a much more resilient vehicle and the mortar is huge killing hiding units.

I think people are over looking just how fast the MBH is in our slow moving army of shuffling corpses. Its also pretty killy with that multimelta and now you dont need to kèp 3 next to each other for the +1bs you have evn more freedom

darthryan wrote:
I think people are over looking just how fast the MBH is in our slow moving army of shuffling corpses. Its also pretty killy with that multimelta and now you dont need to kèp 3 next to each other for the +1bs you have evn more freedom

I like the fact that my squad of three can now fill an Outrider detachment and provide cover bonuses to infantry all over the board instead of one big area.

Let’s hope they keep the aura for cover saves. Maybe it will change to the -1 to hit which seems more appropriate. Maybe even giving it to themselves. Remember, the old fog rule was written before any terrain rules existed.

Is the levi a thing again? 220 for double flamers double grav flux seems nice.

all the combat arms are free.

So my preferred loadout would be 1 grav flux arm and 1 claw+meltagun.

4 attacks base +1 for the claw at str 14 -3 3

Looking to kit bash some DG possessed.

Going to use a normal Plaguemarine Squad, and was thinking of buying a Spawn box to use the tentacles etc.

Anyone know how many arms I could possibley cover with the spawn sprues? From looking at images I think there should be more than enough.

I might even use some of the spawn body for a few of them

You get a lot of arms/tentacles/weird things in the spawn kit. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot.

Doohicky wrote:
Looking to kit bash some DG possessed.

Going to use a normal Plaguemarine Squad, and was thinking of buying a Spawn box to use the tentacles etc.

Anyone know how many arms I could possibley cover with the spawn sprues? From looking at images I think there should be more than enough.

I might even use some of the spawn body for a few of them

You can kitbash really good DG Possessed by mixing Plague Marines with the actual Possessed kit. Here's an exemple taken on Reddit :

Selfcontrol wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Looking to kit bash some DG possessed.

Going to use a normal Plaguemarine Squad, and was thinking of buying a Spawn box to use the tentacles etc.

Anyone know how many arms I could possibley cover with the spawn sprues? From looking at images I think there should be more than enough.

I might even use some of the spawn body for a few of them

You can kitbash really good DG Possessed by mixing Plague Marines with the actual Possessed kit. Here's an exemple taken on Reddit :

They're a lot better than I'd expect given how little I like the regular Possessed models.

Nice one cheers. I imagine the possessed arms will fit better, whereas using the spawn bits will require a lot more green stuffing.

My only issue is I need 7, because Nurgle. I am sure I can work it out and come up with something.

Masive thanks for the suggestions

Thoughts on the leaks?

First I’d like to ask if anyone has seen if terminators are still at a 4++. For a while thought there was no chance of this happening, but a possible leaker said they will be keeping it. That would be absurd.

Also Mortarion looks absolutely absurd. T8, -1 damage and the old 5+++ is a LOT for defensive buffs. Downside is he doesn’t let you take other pyskers (which is a big for reasons I’ll explain later), but never in my wildest dreams did I think he would keep the 5+++. Oh and he shuts downs aura effects within 3 inches of himself, which means less re-rolls against him in CC.

So what’s the problem with stopping other pyskers from being in your army? First stoppping you from taking good units like Demon princes and Typhus is a big loss (it is fluffy though). However, due to the new Lord limitation, the bigger issue is you won’t be able to take battalions with morty in your list, That’s because all Deathguard HQ’s are at least a pysker or a lord, meaning you can’t take a 2nd HQ in a detachment, since lords are limited to 1. That means 2 or more HQ detachments are off the table when using morty.

Salt donkey wrote:
Thoughts on the leaks?

First I’d like to ask if anyone has seen if terminators are still at a 4++. For a while thought there was no chance of this happening, but a possible leaker said they will be keeping it. That would be absurd.

Also Mortarion looks absolutely absurd. T8, -1 damage and the old 5+++ is a LOT for defensive buffs. Downside is he doesn’t let you take other pyskers (which is a big for reasons I’ll explain later), but never in my wildest dreams did I think he would keep the 5+++. Oh and he shuts downs aura effects within 3 inches of himself, which means less re-rolls against him in CC.

So what’s the problem with stopping other pyskers from being in your army? First stoppping you from taking good units like Demon princes and Typhus is a big loss (it is fluffy though). However, due to the new Lord limitation, the bigger issue is you won’t be able to take battalions with morty in your list, That’s because all Deathguard HQ’s are at least a pysker or a lord, meaning you can’t take a 2nd HQ in a detachment, since lords are limited to 1. That means 2 or more HQ detachments are off the table when using morty.

General consensus on lack of psykers with Morty seems to be that it is fake. We'll have to wait and see.

Spoiler that image, it's messing up the page.

The Lord limitation, I wonder if it's just in relation to LoC and LoV... probably includes Chaos Lords as well but... you never know...

 lare2 wrote:
The Lord limitation, I wonder if it's just in relation to LoC and LoV... probably includes Chaos Lords as well but... you never know...

I presume it’s like the similar limitation on Captains in the Space Marine Codex, Lord is a rank in terms of Chaos armies so limiting to one character of that stature in a detachment.

I'm not familiar with the new SM codex so cheers for the info. Been list building with the limited knowledge we have. Man, trying to create Morty lists is proving tough. I'm determined to start playing him again now though - he is looking tasty.

 Horla wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Looking to kit bash some DG possessed.

Going to use a normal Plaguemarine Squad, and was thinking of buying a Spawn box to use the tentacles etc.

Anyone know how many arms I could possibley cover with the spawn sprues? From looking at images I think there should be more than enough.

I might even use some of the spawn body for a few of them

You can kitbash really good DG Possessed by mixing Plague Marines with the actual Possessed kit. Here's an exemple taken on Reddit :

After seeing this picture, I've bought some bits and am going to be this exactly, with some converted blightkings as well.
They're a lot better than I'd expect given how little I like the regular Possessed models.