Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed

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**Eldenfirefly**

I think PM squads are under-rated becase everyone loves DG terminators so much. I agree deathshrouds are great, but PM can do more damage per points than Blightlords and they are obsec. You can have a brick of Blightlords stand on a midboard and it probably won't die the whole game. But if your opponent throws something durable to keep it busy and has a separate squad of obsec locked in combat or just standing on the objective as well, then those blightlords lose out because they are not obsec.

This is less of an issue with deathshrouds because its unlikely stuff can hang around fighting deathshrouds for long. They are simply that scary in combat.

But PM can threaten at range. Deathshrouds are 12 inches range mostly. Its a big difference. I think ideally, we want some of both ranged and melee threats.

**Marshal Loss**

Jidmah wrote:

The PBC stratagem wasn't great. Once the PBC completely missed so I spent 2 CP for nothing

Disgusting Force is only 1CP.

**Eldenfirefly**

Jidmah wrote:
I just had a game last night and went and tried out a lot of the less talked about stuff in the new codex.

A tollkeeper tallyman last night who was buffing a block of 3x plasma 2x blight launcher marines to great effect. He occasionally repositioned to get a second PM squad with a single blightlauncher as well as one of the two MM helbrutes I had running around. Getting extra hits out of blight launchers and multi-meltas really made a huge difference to the game, and on top of that he managed to refund a whooping 5 CP.
Plasma was kind of disappointing though, I really don't want to kill plague marines with overcharging and without 18" rapid fire they aren't worth 10 points. They might be better vs armies with many 2W models though.

Helbrutes in general did quite well, though I should have put a bolter or flamer on the fist to get more benefit from auras. They no longer stick out like a sore thumb that is easy to kill and using haze of corruption on a helbrute fist just massacres anything trying to hold an objective. Being Death Guard CORE really makes them great.

Putting the Reaper of Glorious Entropy on the Death Shroud Champion was so powerful it almost felt like cheating, especially if you use my new favorite stratagem haze of corruption. My opponent agreed and threw four hundred points of melee death star with character support at the deathshroud to kill them. Turns out they eventually die when you hit them with dozens of high AP attacks.

Both the noxious blightbringer and the surgeon had issues keeping up with their respective terminator squads. While the blightbringer was essential to the deathshroud getting into combat, he ended up without protection and got splatted by a reaper.

PBC do a lot more damage now, but it really feels like they fold like any other tank now. Rothail volley gun is decent.
The PBC stratagem wasn't great. Once the PBC completely missed so I spent 2 CP for nothing and once it did 3 damage to a vehicle and a single mortal wound on a nearby unit. Probably not worth it unless you are shooting at 6+ model units with multiple wounds.

LoV was ok-ish. I used him as deep-striking one-man army, and his pathogen-enhanced flamer cleared two objectives and he got some work done on the charge. His AP aura was worthless, despite multiple units nearby being able to trigger it.
I feel like he could be a decent second HQ if he wasn't a Lord of the Death Guard, but as it is, he is not worth giving up re-rolls elsewhere.

I wasn't that amazed by Ferric Blight as other posters were. It really feels useless unless you spend 2 CP for flash outbreak.
Ferric Miasma though? That stratagem actually made the difference between losing and winning. My opponent only barely managed to connect to a unit of blightlords due to it, denying parts of his unit to join combat, preventing him from consolidating onto the objective and allowing the remaining two blightlords (flail and champion) to fight back and survive until the end of the game for while we stand, we fight. Total gain: 10 VP. 1 CP makes it cheap enough to just toss at the enemy whenever they attempt 6"+ charges.

I feel that PBCs are less durable now, but do more damage, so the trick is use their indirect fire in round 1 and keep out of line of sight. When the opponent has revealed his long range heavy support, then the PBCs can come out and use their entropy cannons to good effect. Once enough of the opponent's long range has been reduced then the PBCs can stand in the open and engage in a shooting war of attrition in which they are likely to win.

If your opponent refuses to expose his heavy support before your PBCs do, then that's fine too, because you can just keep on playing this game of chess where you stay out of line of sight as well and keep on pounding targets with your mortars. The key thing is, you don't have to kill the heavy support. As long as they don't dare to expose themselves, its pretty much the same thing. So we need to be more cagey with our PBCs in round 1 or 2 until they can come out and play openly after that. And thanks for sharing!!!

**Jidmah**

Marshal Loss wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

The PBC stratagem wasn't great. Once the PBC completely missed so I spent 2 CP for nothing

Disgusting Force is only 1CP.

Ah, sorry, that wasn't clear. I re-rolled the number of shots as well, going up from 1 to 3, but still missing all.

**Eldenfirefly**

A souped DG list may be more effective for PBC shooting. Demon and CSM daemon princes can still give aura of reroll 1s to PBCs. Oh wait, they can't. Sorry.

**Jidmah**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I feel that PBCs are less durable now, but do more damage, so the trick is use their indirect fire in round 1 and keep out of line of sight. When the opponent has revealed his long range heavy support, then the PBCs can come out and use their entropy cannons to good effect. Once enough of the opponent's long range has been reduced then the PBCs can stand in the open and engage in a shooting war of attrition in which they are likely to win.

If your opponent refuses to expose his heavy support before your PBCs do, then that's fine too, because you can just keep on playing this game of chess where you stay out of line of sight as well and keep on pounding targets with your mortars. The key thing is, you don't have to kill the heavy support. As long as they don't dare to expose themselves, its pretty much the same thing. So we need to be more cagey with our PBCs in round 1 or 2 until they can come out and play openly after that. And thanks for sharing!!!

True, I have to rethink how to run them, I was still caught in the mindset of having a BS 4+ tank that doesn't die, but has to shoot every turn to actually kill something.

**blackmage**

Spoiler:

had a game on TTS against a blood angel scorched heart mission
Some considerations: still not sold on Pm, good and decent durable unit but nothing a skilled opponent cant delete when decide to do, maybe better have a single unit of 10 BL (better for straragems and tallyman ability), perhaps better switch the 9pm for 20 more poxes and 2 more Ds termies.
About PBC, they are anyway a good choice but they aren't core so thye dont have access to re rolls and area abilities, still a unit to consider anyway. Im planning to play couple of defilers.

**plagueknight**

Just wondering do Greater Blight drones get access to Disgusting Resilence and Contagions, still waiting for my FW book to arrive and it'll probably be a while since I live in New Zealand so want to know as I have a couple of the FW models

**blackmage**

in FW i have it has dr and NO contagion rule.

**plagueknight**

blackmage wrote:
in FW i have it has dr and NO contagion rule.

Managed to find a photo of it on FB doesn't it have Nurgles gift though which is the -1T?????????

**Salt donkey**

Here are deathguards competitive book units full stop. This being made where I played mini tournament against the best players in my area.

-Most HQ’s aside from regular lords and sorcerers depending on how you kit them out and what you do.

-both types of terminators

-blightspawn and tallyman. Maybe surgeons (Not sure here)

Poxwalkers

-mower drones

-chaos spawn (I think?)

Everythqing else could be ok at local levels or as a niche one of 1 (maybe) but won’t see play in top level lists.

Let’s go over problems of other units being talked about. First all go over units most everyone knows are bad.

Hellbrutes- they are expensive and have no inv. -1D doesn’t help you against all the AP in this meta.

Blighthaulers- does anyone think 140 points is justified here? GW probably didn’t like a $25 model being spammed, and wanted to make sure that didn’t happen.

Drones without mower- too little damage output.

Noxious blightbringer- his points cost mainly just gets +1 M. Not terrible but overpriced. His relic is also probably only worth the CP you spend on it, since your opponent will know he has it at the beginning of the game.

Biologus putrefier- no op mortal wounds combos killed him.

Cultists- Did they really need to take away these guys obsec?

-CSM stuff- just fragile in our army. A rhino dies faster than like 1 blightlord.

Now here’s me talking about units people like in this thread

Plague marines- I get why people want these to be good enough but they’re just not. The problem with blightlord comparison is 2 fold. The first is you can get much more effectiveness using single target buffs on a 10 man blightlord squad than a 10 man plague marine unit, Tallyman +1 to hit and enteral hatred do a lot more here than they do for plague marines. The second is that plague marine efficiency decreases quicker than blightlords in game. For example, in most cases the same number of shooting and melee attacks will wipe out a plague marine unit vs killling only around 4-5 blightlords if we are being generous to the plague marines). That’s a problem because now the plague marines aren’t dishing out more damage point for point than the blightlords, since more PM died and we have lost special weapons on them while the blightlords ones are still safe. That leaves PM as being only good as obsec holders, but walkers do a better job than them in this area.

-Plagurburst crawlers, the flamer version of them is just too much weaker than their 8th counterparts to worth it. Getting +3 range on their flamer and 3+ BS just doesn’t outshine getting a worse version of DR (for tanks at least) and a having S6 non buffable damage on the flamers. The entropy cannon version looked good for a moment, but no native re-rolls on any of their shots makes 3+ hitting only slightly better than 4+re-rolling one’s. 175 is just much for something that only gets 2 of these good shots and a bad motor (d6 shots is still bad (I too have used Disgusting impact and a CP re-roll for it to miss everything). Let’s not even talk about the slugger.

-

**blackmage**

plagueknight wrote:
blackmage wrote:
in FW i have it has dr and NO contagion rule.

Managed to find a photo of it on FB doesn't it have Nurgles gift though which is the -1T?????????

it has not

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Salt donkey wrote:
Here are deathguards competitive book units full stop. This being made where I played mini tournament against the best players in my area.

-Most HQ’s aside from regular lords and sorcerers depending on how you kit them out and what you do.

-both types of terminators

-blightspawn and tallyman. Maybe surgeons (Not sure here)

Poxwalkers

-mower drones

-chaos spawn (I think?)

Everythqing else could be ok at local levels or as a niche one of 1 (maybe) but won’t see play in top level lists.

Let’s go over problems of other units being talked about. First all go over units most everyone knows are bad.

Hellbrutes- they are expensive and have no inv. -1D doesn’t help you against all the AP in this meta.

Blighthaulers- does anyone think 140 points is justified here? GW probably didn’t like a $25 model being spammed, and wanted to make sure that didn’t happen.

Drones without mower- too little damage output.

Noxious blightbringer- his points cost mainly just gets +1 M. Not terrible but overpriced. His relic is also probably only worth the CP you spend on it, since your opponent will know he has it at the beginning of the game.

Biologus putrefier- no op mortal wounds combos killed him.

Cultists- Did they really need to take away these guys obsec?

-CSM stuff- just fragile in our army. A rhino dies faster than like 1 blightlord.

Now here’s me talking about units people like in this thread

Plague marines- I get why people want these to be good enough but they’re just not. The problem with blightlord comparison is 2 fold. The first is you can get much more effectiveness using single target buffs on a 10 man blightlord squad than a 10 man plague marine unit, Tallyman +1 to hit and enteral hatred do a lot more here than they do for plague marines. The second is that plague marine efficiency decreases quicker than blightlords in game. For example, in most cases the same number of shooting and melee attacks will wipe out a plague marine unit vs killling only around 4-5 blightlords if we are being generous to the plague marines). That’s a problem because now the plague marines aren’t dishing out more damage point for point than the blightlords, since more PM died and we have lost special weapons on them while the blightlords ones are still safe. That leaves PM as being only good as obsec holders, but walkers do a better job than them in this area.

-Plagurburst crawlers, the flamer version of them is just too much weaker than their 8th counterparts to worth it. Getting +3 range on their flamer and 3+ BS just doesn’t outshine getting a worse version of DR (for tanks at least) and a having S6 non buffable damage on the flamers. The entropy cannon version looked good for a moment, but no native re-rolls on any of their shots makes 3+ hitting only slightly better than 4+re-rolling one’s. 175 is just much for something that only gets 2 of these good shots and a bad motor (d6 shots is still bad (I too have used Disgusting impact and a CP re-roll for it to miss everything). Let’s not even talk about the slugger.

-

100% agree but this, like you said, become clear when you start play really competitive, in any other soft/medium game enviroment you cant figure that out.This is why i always said ad will always say...play against competent players using competitve lists, if you really want have a taste of how a codex is, all the rest if just fun, and for fun anything work fine.
I think lot want some unit work just cause they spent time and money on them and refuse to admit they are bad, that is understandable at all.

**broxus**

@ salt donkey

Yes chaos spawn are exceptionally good for their points. They can put out some crazy damage, move fast, and are surprisingly resilient. I recommend units of 3 which can clear any objective of units that cost twice or three time as their points.

The only area I disagree with you is I think anyone running a competitive list must have 2 PBC to give a long range threat. If you don’t you are going to really struggle in some matchups. The new entropy cannons are very good with -4AP and D3+3 damage each. Not to mention the mortar and stratagem. I can shoot opponents off of objectives even if they are not visible.

On a side note has anyone looked at the damage output of 5x Deathshroud with a biologus putrifier nearby (especially if he has arch-contaminator)? It is absurdly good damage if you scythe attack. I run mine as inexorable and this combo will kill 8 dark angels knights on one round of combat. Really nothing can stand up to it.

**plagueknight**

@blackmage you might want to check that again as it clearly does
Even shows it in the warhammer app as having nurgles gift

**Salt donkey**

broxus wrote:
@ salt donkey

Yes chaos spawn are exceptionally good for their points. They can put out some crazy damage, move fast, and are surprisingly resilient. I recommend units of 3 which can clear any objective of units that cost twice or three time as their points.

The only area I disagree with you is I think anyone running a competitive list must have 2 PBC to give a long range threat. If you don’t you are going to really struggle in some matchups. The new entropy cannons are very good with -4AP and D3+3 damage each. Not to mention the mortar and stratagem. I can shoot opponents off of objectives even if they are not visible.

On a side note has anyone looked at the damage output of 5x Deathshroud with a biologus putrifier nearby (especially if he has arch-contaminator)? It is absurdly good damage if you scythe attack. I run mine as inexorable and this combo will kill 8 dark angels knights on one round of combat. Really nothing can stand up to it.

I do like how cheap spawn are for their damage out put. Ran 3 Of them in my last list and wasn’t disappointed by them (but I wasn’t over the moon about them either)

I used to like PBC as much as you, but my opinion changed when I played 3 competitive list. They where certainly good in matchups where my opponents scary stuff didn’t have invs, but too many times I’d get 1 hit with the entropy cannon, 1 wound with the cannon, and then my opponent would make a 4++ or 5++. Or I’d hit twice fail to wound once, and only do 4 damage. Or I’d miss twice. Or I’d hit once, and fail to wound. That meant that too many times my 175 was doing like maybe 2-3 wounds with its mortar and slugger, and that’s it. You’re better off taking FW dreadnoughts due to CORE or souping in your fire support then running these.

**plagueknight**

Salt donkey wrote:
broxus wrote:
@ salt donkey

Yes chaos spawn are exceptionally good for their points. They can put out some crazy damage, move fast, and are surprisingly resilient. I recommend units of 3 which can clear any objective of units that cost twice or three time as their points.

The only area I disagree with you is I think anyone running a competitive list must have 2 PBC to give a long range threat. If you don’t you are going to really struggle in some matchups. The new entropy cannons are very good with -4AP and D3+3 damage each. Not to mention the mortar and stratagem. I can shoot opponents off of objectives even if they are not visible.

On a side note has anyone looked at the damage output of 5x Deathshroud with a biologus putrifier nearby (especially if he has arch-contaminator)? It is absurdly good damage if you scythe attack. I run mine as inexorable and this combo will kill 8 dark angels knights on one round of combat. Really nothing can stand up to it.

I do like how cheap spawn are for their damage out put. Ran 3 Of them in my last list and wasn’t disappointed by them (but I wasn’t over the moon about them either)

I used to like PBC as much as you, but my opinion changed when I played 3 competitive list. They where certainly good in matchups where my opponents scary stuff didn’t have invs, but too many times I’d get 1 hit with the entropy cannon, 1 wound with the cannon, and then my opponent would make a 4++ or 5++. Or I’d hit twice fail to wound once, and only do 4 damage. Or I’d miss twice. Or I’d hit once, and fail to wound. That meant that too many times my 175 was doing like maybe 2-3 wounds with its mortar and slugger, and that’s it. You’re better off taking FW dreadnoughts due to CORE or souping in your fire support then running these.

Out of curiosity did you use the stratagem to make them more Nurgly or run them normally?

**Jidmah**

plagueknight wrote:
@blackmage you might want to check that again as it clearly does
Even shows it in the warhammer app as having nurgles gift

Can confirm from the actual book. It doesn't have Contagions of Nurgle, but it gets Nurgle's Gift anyways, even if you run them in a mixed army.

Nurgle's Gift gives -1T to units in contagion range, the ability Contagions of Nurgle is not necessary for a contagion ability to work.

**COLD CASH**

how does it get nurgles gift can you post a img of the relevant rule?

Does this also apply to the hellblade??

**blackmage**

i dont see any entry about gifts

**Jidmah**

You are looking at the CSM datasheet, you need to look in the DG section.

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

COLD CASH wrote:
Does this also apply to the hellblade??

No. The only way for any CSM unit to gain a contagion is through the flash outbreak stratagem.

**Abaddon303**

Greater blight drone does have Nurgle's gift but not contagions which is weird but I think doesn't make any real practical difference.

Inclined to agree with the above, especially on the PBCs. I've played four games since the new codex taking two in each list and they just haven't performed. Even when rolling well for the mortar it's still too swingy and not terribly durable.

Poxwalkers are fantastic, the MW strat is awesome despite the fact that twice now I've had some miserable luck with it rolling 20 something dice and getting zero 6s and like seven 1s! Two big units means you can push them both up through the objectives, charge with one and drop the MW strat while spreading sickness with the other.

Deathshroud are incredible and putting the relic manreaper on the champ is like taking a wrecking ball LOC with ablative wounds! Devestating.

Clearly the mower drone is awesome but I've still gotten mileage out of the HBL. It can reach out and touch pretty much anywhere on the board to soften up obsec and can stay out of trouble most of the game so your opponent is focused on trying to bring down other stuff in your army. If you keep it alive it will happily chew through at least 2 squads of primaris throughout the game. A real pain for your opponent if you are taking them off his home objective and forcing him to go backwards.

**Eldenfirefly**

Hmm, will be having a game tomorrow. Let's see how the PBC performs for me.

**lare2**

Salt donkey wrote:
Here are deathguards competitive book units full stop. This being made where I played mini tournament against the best players in my area.

-Most HQ’s aside from regular lords and sorcerers depending on how you kit them out and what you do.

-both types of terminators

-blightspawn and tallyman. Maybe surgeons (Not sure here)

Poxwalkers

-mower drones

-chaos spawn (I think?)

Everythqing else could be ok at local levels or as a niche one of 1 (maybe) but won’t see play in top level lists.

Let’s go over problems of other units being talked about. First all go over units most everyone knows are bad.

Hellbrutes- they are expensive and have no inv. -1D doesn’t help you against all the AP in this meta.

Blighthaulers- does anyone think 140 points is justified here? GW probably didn’t like a $25 model being spammed, and wanted to make sure that didn’t happen.

Drones without mower- too little damage output.

Noxious blightbringer- his points cost mainly just gets +1 M. Not terrible but overpriced. His relic is also probably only worth the CP you spend on it, since your opponent will know he has it at the beginning of the game.

Biologus putrefier- no op mortal wounds combos killed him.

Cultists- Did they really need to take away these guys obsec?

-CSM stuff- just fragile in our army. A rhino dies faster than like 1 blightlord.

Now here’s me talking about units people like in this thread

Plague marines- I get why people want these to be good enough but they’re just not. The problem with blightlord comparison is 2 fold. The first is you can get much more effectiveness using single target buffs on a 10 man blightlord squad than a 10 man plague marine unit, Tallyman +1 to hit and enteral hatred do a lot more here than they do for plague marines. The second is that plague marine efficiency decreases quicker than blightlords in game. For example, in most cases the same number of shooting and melee attacks will wipe out a plague marine unit vs killling only around 4-5 blightlords if we are being generous to the plague marines). That’s a problem because now the plague marines aren’t dishing out more damage point for point than the blightlords, since more PM died and we have lost special weapons on them while the blightlords ones are still safe. That leaves PM as being only good as obsec holders, but walkers do a better job than them in this area.

-Plagurburst crawlers, the flamer version of them is just too much weaker than their 8th counterparts to worth it. Getting +3 range on their flamer and 3+ BS just doesn’t outshine getting a worse version of DR (for tanks at least) and a having S6 non buffable damage on the flamers. The entropy cannon version looked good for a moment, but no native re-rolls on any of their shots makes 3+ hitting only slightly better than 4+re-rolling one’s. 175 is just much for something that only gets 2 of these good shots and a bad motor (d6 shots is still bad (I too have used Disgusting impact and a CP re-roll for it to miss everything). Let’s not even talk about the slugger.

-

Any comments on Morty?

**Salt donkey**

Morty has been discussed heavily here, so that’s why I didn’t bring him up. To summarize he is great in certain matchups, but bad if your opponent has a game plan to handle him, and against armies deathguard naturally struggle with (sisters of battle, dark eldar, TSon soup, any army that shoots very well). That makes him the perfect example of a noob stomper unit, something that is the bane for casual play, but bad competitively.

**Abaddon303**

Just run a bit of maths.
PBC Mortar will generally kill 1 or 2 primaris a turn. Even a roll of 6 shots you're probably looking at not exceeding 2 killed.
HBL Drone will consistently kill 2 primaris a turn, going to 3 when contagions kick in.
Obviously the PBC doesn't need line of sight, but the Drone with a 10" movement and fly can generally get sight of most things on the board if required.

You're paying 35pts for the two entropy cannons and the Heavy Slugger, T8 and 3 wounds. The PBC does degrade though while the Drone is more mobile and harder to tag in combat as can sit on a ruin etc and can actually contribute a little in melee.

I think my preference is with the Drone just for consistency and the ability to contribute in other areas of the game (board control, objective grabbing etc) but in fairness to GW i don't think there's quite such huge swings of viability in the codex and as was said above, i think it's only when you really need to push a list as hard as you possibly can, that these sorts of choices become important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other unit I think we have available filling a similar role to the PBC is the twin volkite contemptor.

With the missiles it costs the same as the PBC and with no buffs it consistently kills 2-3 Primaris plus causes a further 2-3 MWs.

The output gets even better with buffs from tallyman or rerolls from a lord etc and when contagions kick in to bring marine toughness down to 3.

The missiles aren't as good as the entropy cannons and it's only T7 but like the Drone it doesn't degrade.

Can also half the shooting output by swapping a chainfist in then the contemptor can contribute some pretty horrific melee too. Has been a really great unit in the two games I've run him in.

**Tyel**

Abaddon303 wrote:
Clearly the mower drone is awesome but I've still gotten mileage out of the HBL. It can reach out and touch pretty much anywhere on the board to soften up obsec and can stay out of trouble most of the game so your opponent is focused on trying to bring down other stuff in your army. If you keep it alive it will happily chew through at least 2 squads of primaris throughout the game. A real pain for your opponent if you are taking them off his home objective and forcing him to go backwards.

I think the thing holding the HBL drone back is a lack of obvious synergy. I don't think its bad but its unlikely to ever be great. If you get to fight more than twice the mower is obviously superior even if the HBL is throwing out shots all game.

I've got an idea of a list with say two patrols,
2 Plaguecasters,
46 Poxwalkers,
3*3 Death Shroud
1 Tallyman
1*5 Spawn
3 HBL Drones
3 Entropy PBCs.

But really I think you'd immediately swap the HBL for Mowers to boost the assault potential. And possibly drop one or the spawn to fit everything in a battalion for more CP. And swap a Plaguecaster for a LoC while shaving some points somewhere such as the Poxwalkers. And 3 PBC might be too many - although I think it makes them more reliable than only having one.
Anyway... very quickly you are turning this into what seems to be "the standard DG list without Mortarion".

**Abaddon303**

I think a bigger lump of DS is better than 3x3, also protects the relic on the champion a little better.
Also while I just spent a while bigging up the HBL drone, I definitely wouldn't take three. If you want three drones take 2 mowers and one HBL

**Tremble**

Have played a couple of games on TTS now and am agreeing with most of what has been posted here so far.

I like the PBC's more reliable damage but they seem to die alot easier than before. I have only used the Entrophy version and those cannons are alot more reliable than the mortar now.

Plague marines have been a little disappointing so far, getting them into combat or onto objectives has been challenging.
Or leaving a big squad back on an objective feels wasteful when they are so expensive.

Dont think the Surgeon is worth it with plague marines, just does not add enough.

Have failed to get either the Blightening or the mortal wound effect from Bioligus Putrifier to work yet. Another great on paper but hard to actually use!

Foul Blighspawn with Stench Vats and the reroll virus is still an auto include.

Morty kinda feels like a crutch to the Codex for me. As said above he will club those unprepared for him and leave people thinking DG are an incredible army.

I try to play in 2 or 3 competitive events each year and I am a little concerned that DG are not going to cut it. Still more lists to try, have not gone Termy heavy yet but with no ways to help deepstrike charges that approach is leaving alot to luck!

The final and possibly biggest problem I see is with secondaries, they all suck for DG! Last night I played against an all Ravenwing army and there was not 1 single secondary I wanted to take. This puts us at a real disadvantage before the game even begins.

Just to warn you - the all Ravenwing army killed Morty with ease in the first turn!

**Wayniac**

I definitely plan to stick with Plague Marines. I am sick of seeing "chaos space marine" armies with barely any actual marines. I do love me some terminators though so those are definitely on my list of must take units. in fact that reminds me I need to get another box of blight Lord terminators...

I think my main plan is going to be using the plague Marine squads in small chunks and taking advantage of additional firepower. So for example five man squads with a blight launcher and two plasma guns (one on the champion). Although I really want to try a combined arms squad in a dread claw, especially if you give them support like a biologous putrifier. I actually think the foul blightspawn can work with this because his weapons synergize pretty well with the squad's weapons.

**tokugawa**

In your "typical(non-Morty based)" list, which character would you pick to carry the ArchCo trait, and why?