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with new DW termies, perhaps improve MW output might be something to consider.

If Typhus is your warlord, he has to take Shamblerot no matter what type of detachment he is in. Then, since he’s in a Wretched detachment, you can use the Plague Chosen strat to take another warlord trait on a plague caster, in that case, the Wretched contagion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh no! I went back and reread it! He can’t be in a Wretched detachment with his warlord trait.



Back to the drawing board! I was confusing his ability with Mortarion!

 Brymm wrote:
If Typhus is your warlord, he has to take Shamblerot no matter what type of detachment he is in. Then, since he’s in a Wretched detachment, you can use the Plague Chosen strat to take another warlord trait on a plague caster, in that case, the Wretched contagion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh no! I went back and reread it! He can’t be in a Wretched detachment with his warlord trait.



Back to the drawing board! I was confusing his ability with Mortarion!

I thought he can actually. You can totally bring Typhus in a wretched detachment, its only that if you make him the warlord, then he must take the shamblerot warlord trait. (which is fine in a MW list). You can still get the wretched warlord trait by taking plague chosen on one of your malignant plague castor.

Yeh, he can be in a non-harbingers detachment but then he can't be your warlord. That's how i read it anyway.

Ok I've played against the new DA. Holy moly it's absolutely brutal.
I don't want to rant, but there is some serious disparity in how GW writes Chaos codexes vs Loyalists codexes.

 N0tThatGuy wrote:
Ok I've played against the new DA. Holy moly it's absolutely brutal.
I don't want to rant, but there is some serious disparity in how GW writes Chaos codexes vs Loyalists codexes.

?? All of the new 9th edition codexes have been powerful so far. Necrons, Space Marines, DG, the various SM supplements, have all been powerful. Have you seen the latest Dark Angel's codex? Their terminator unit is actually even more tanky (permanent transhuman...) than a blightlord or deathshroud unit, plus it can be obsec as well. I saw a battle report where a big DA terminator block got charged by literally 7 or 8 blood angel units (and BA are the masters of melee). That DA terminator block took some losses but actually survived.... wow! That was amazing.

GW seems to be intent on raising the power level of every single 9th ed codex it releases based on the movie "incredibles" logic of "If everyone is super, then No one will be..."

 N0tThatGuy wrote:
Ok I've played against the new DA. Holy moly it's absolutely brutal.
I don't want to rant, but there is some serious disparity in how GW writes Chaos codexes vs Loyalists codexes.

I think DA are a bit of an outlier and will probably see some changes once regular tournaments start happening. We shall see.
It's a shame because the other Space Marine books actually restored a lot of my confidence in the rule writers because of how 'restrained while still being good' they were. DA have a bit of Iron Hands supplement 'do everything well' going on.

Okay on the Typhus thing, he can be in any detachment without breaking the detachment rules, but it says you can only take his Warlord trait and take him as your warlord if he is in a Harbingers detachment. So you can use him to get Shamblerot in a non harbingers detachment, which is what I wanted to do. He still might be great in a Wretched detachment though as he is a lord who is a psyker and a super tanky bad ass Lord of Contagion.

 Brymm wrote:
Okay on the Typhus thing, he can be in any detachment without breaking the detachment rules, but it says you can only take his Warlord trait and take him as your warlord if he is in a Harbingers detachment. So you can use him to get Shamblerot in a non harbingers detachment, which is what I wanted to do. He still might be great in a Wretched detachment though as he is a lord who is a psyker and a super tanky bad ass Lord of Contagion.

I've been using him in an inexorable detachment and he's been fine with no warlord trait. He still chucks out a decent amount of mortals with his destroyer hive a smite and a curse of the leper. I've actually been finding I reign his psychic in a lot so as not to make charges longer!
He's 40pts more than a LOC but you're getting the MWs, 2 psychic spells an extra attack and basically a relic manreaper. I reckon he's worth the extra points...

So just a warning to everyone if you are using the warhammer app to build you points for death guard the points are potentially wrong in the calculation. I have found my lists are anywhere from 50-60 points wrong. I have been playing one lists for seven games only to realize it was nearly 70pts short. The great part is it feels like I just had points cuts!!

On the subject of possessed, I played a game with my Bud a week ago and he played deathguard vs my iron hands. Amazing game, he beat me pretty solidly.

He had a squad of 10 possessed and honestly they are what helped him win the game. They ended up charging turn 2 into 5 intercessors, wiping them. Then he hit 5 infiltrators t3 and dropped them to srg with 1 wound left (I transhumaned and he rolled horribly to hit). Finished that guy off in my turn, grabbed my objective on that flank, and I had nothing that could shift them at that point as I was dealing with mortarion in the center.

After the game we talked and agreed they are what won him the game. High number of attacks, resistance to a lot of dmg, high speed (for nurgle), and I didn't have an answer to them. It helped me make my iron hands better (added a thunder fire cannon in to slow problems like that down, which in my last game vs custodies actually won me the game) but also showed me that possessed deserve respect. I can see a speed force as an option, possessed, drones, haulers, mortarion, deamon princes with some pox walkers / 5 man troops for back line holding and terms deep striking where needed. Definitely a viable option.

Yeah, the thing about possessed is that they are fast in comparision to other DG units. They are movement 7, and can be buffed by the blightbringer. They are also core and use all plague weapons. Even without strategems, their base damage is high because of the high AP and the high number of hits. Throw in buffs and strategems you can potentially give them, and they can really smash stuff up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
On the subject of possessed, I played a game with my Bud a week ago and he played deathguard vs my iron hands. Amazing game, he beat me pretty solidly.

He had a squad of 10 possessed and honestly they are what helped him win the game. They ended up charging turn 2 into 5 intercessors, wiping them. Then he hit 5 infiltrators t3 and dropped them to srg with 1 wound left (I transhumaned and he rolled horribly to hit). Finished that guy off in my turn, grabbed my objective on that flank, and I had nothing that could shift them at that point as I was dealing with mortarion in the center.

After the game we talked and agreed they are what won him the game. High number of attacks, resistance to a lot of dmg, high speed (for nurgle), and I didn't have an answer to them. It helped me make my iron hands better (added a thunder fire cannon in to slow problems like that down, which in my last game vs custodies actually won me the game) but also showed me that possessed deserve respect. I can see a speed force as an option, possessed, drones, haulers, mortarion, deamon princes with some pox walkers / 5 man troops for back line holding and terms deep striking where needed. Definitely a viable option.

Hmm, I thought death guard can't be slowed. Thunderfire cannons or tanglefoot grenades do nothing to death guard possessed. They still move their maximum movement.

thunderfire dont work against DG infantry.
an example of list

Thanks for the advice on the Land Raider. I think that I'll hold off on getting it for now.

After looking over the different plague companies, it looks like the one that fits the best for me is Mortarion's Anvil. My plan is to have Plague Marines and maybe poxwalkers hold down objectives while possessed, Deathshroud, and a Lord of Contagion go on the offensive, backed up by noxious blightbringers and blightspawns. Both the Relaptic Assault stratagem and Warp Insect Hive relic strike me as really good for my needs. What are some examples of effective ways to run the 3rd company in an army?

BTW, one additional consideration for Possessed. With stuff like transhuman, and DA terminators, 4++ saves, disgustingly resilient and their counterparts, weight of attacks might be better than a few high damage attacks. a squad of 5 possessed has 20 attacks at -2AP with 1 damage. Even if its 2 damage, against DR or DA terminators with their version of DR, it will make no difference because reduced to 1 damage. So possessed are fine without the 2 damage because they rely on weight on attacks.

So the 5 possessed has 20 attacks, with -2AP which immediately brings them down to their 4++ invul save. I think a squad of possessed charging into a squad of DA terminators may do more damage than say a PM unit with flails, or even a squad of blightlords. Especially when you factor in transhuman, which makes it all 4+ to wound anyway.

20 attacks, buff with Tallyman with +1 to hit, with arch contaminator giving rerolls to wound. And then buff it with a Biologus Putrifier to give mortal wounds on 6s. I think 20 attacks with exploding 6s and reroll all wounds should results in around 15 wounds of which 2 to 3 are mortals. He fails half of these, that's 7. So, 3 terminators dead from a squad of 5 possessed. Thats not bad right?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
BTW, one additional consideration for Possessed. With stuff like transhuman, and DA terminators, 4++ saves, disgustingly resilient and their counterparts, weight of attacks might be better than a few high damage attacks. a squad of 5 possessed has 20 attacks at -2AP with 1 damage. Even if its 2 damage, against DR or DA terminators with their version of DR, it will make no difference because reduced to 1 damage. So possessed are fine without the 2 damage because they rely on weight on attacks.

So the 5 possessed has 20 attacks, with -2AP which immediately brings them down to their 4++ invul save. I think a squad of possessed charging into a squad of DA terminators may do more damage than say a PM unit with flails, or even a squad of blightlords. Especially when you factor in transhuman, which makes it all 4+ to wound anyway.

20 attacks, buff with Tallyman with +1 to hit, with arch contaminator giving rerolls to wound. And then buff it with a Biologus Putrifier to give mortal wounds on 6s. I think 20 attacks with exploding 6s and reroll all wounds should results in around 15 wounds of which 2 to 3 are mortals. He fails half of these, that's 7. So, 3 terminators dead from a squad of 5 possessed. Thats not bad right?

Terminator with shield has "1+" save. AP-2 makes it 3+, not 4+.

 tokugawa wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
BTW, one additional consideration for Possessed. With stuff like transhuman, and DA terminators, 4++ saves, disgustingly resilient and their counterparts, weight of attacks might be better than a few high damage attacks. a squad of 5 possessed has 20 attacks at -2AP with 1 damage. Even if its 2 damage, against DR or DA terminators with their version of DR, it will make no difference because reduced to 1 damage. So possessed are fine without the 2 damage because they rely on weight on attacks.

So the 5 possessed has 20 attacks, with -2AP which immediately brings them down to their 4++ invul save. I think a squad of possessed charging into a squad of DA terminators may do more damage than say a PM unit with flails, or even a squad of blightlords. Especially when you factor in transhuman, which makes it all 4+ to wound anyway.

20 attacks, buff with Tallyman with +1 to hit, with arch contaminator giving rerolls to wound. And then buff it with a Biologus Putrifier to give mortal wounds on 6s. I think 20 attacks with exploding 6s and reroll all wounds should results in around 15 wounds of which 2 to 3 are mortals. He fails half of these, that's 7. So, 3 terminators dead from a squad of 5 possessed. Thats not bad right?

Terminator with shield has "1+" save. AP-2 makes it 3+, not 4+.

Well, statistically, large number of attacks would still work better than a few high AP, big damage attacks. Anyway, you can take Ferric blight. Inexorable is a good plague company. That will add 1 more AP to all within the Ferric blight contagion range.

So I ran a game against an ultramarine player earlier this week with a list very similar to what Blackmage posted above, basically with a daemon prince instead.

The game hurt me deeply.

He just ignored mortarion for the first two turns and focused everything on killing my troops. All my poxies and my possesed squad were just straight up dead before I got anywhere close to combat. Redemptor dreadnoughts just seem better than any tool we have access to.

So wasnt morty able to just go ham then since he was ignored? Yea, charged a full 10 man hellblaster squad, which promptly got transhumaned, and Morty killed a full 2 marines. That was depressing. Especially considering he just fell back with them and shot morty, then charged with Gulliman. Morty actually survived with 1 wound, and killed girlyman on the swing back, but guess who revived with 6 wounds left.

By the end of the game, he had still at least half his army left, and my only models were 3 chaos spawn hiding on an objective. The score was almost close, if he didnt max out 2 of his secondaries through killing my crap.

Overall feels that death guard are pretty survivable, but their damage output (at least against marines) is still pretty pitiful. But I guess why compare anything to marines in 8th lol.

I think 9th Ed DG needs to be able to shoot back. Being tanky and killy in melee isn't enough. There are some very shooty armies out there. We are never going to be the shootiest army but we at least need to be able to reduce some of our opponent's most deadly shooting so that we can then take the mid field more safely. This is why I believe that 3 PBCs are better than 1 Morty.

If being tanky and killy in melee was enough to win the game, why don't we see lists with 30 storm shield terminators?

Morty isn't that killy on his own. I think he is good also because he is a primach that can fly at least 12 inches up the board and then project a massive 9 inch radius contagion bubble. plus he has that aura that turns off auras. He also has psychic. Curse of the Leper plus Smite can do a lot of damage to the elite space marine squads. Is he good enough? I don't know. He is a very skewed unit, almost like how knights were when they were first introduced. If your opponent is shooty enough or has the tools to handle Morty, then having Morty is a liability because he cost nearly 500 points and he couldn't do enough. If your opponent can't handle Morty, then Morty would make your victory assured.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
So I ran a game against an ultramarine player earlier this week with a list very similar to what Blackmage posted above, basically with a daemon prince instead.

The game hurt me deeply.

He just ignored mortarion for the first two turns and focused everything on killing my troops. All my poxies and my possesed squad were just straight up dead before I got anywhere close to combat. Redemptor dreadnoughts just seem better than any tool we have access to.

So wasnt morty able to just go ham then since he was ignored? Yea, charged a full 10 man hellblaster squad, which promptly got transhumaned, and Morty killed a full 2 marines. That was depressing. Especially considering he just fell back with them and shot morty, then charged with Gulliman. Morty actually survived with 1 wound, and killed girlyman on the swing back, but guess who revived with 6 wounds left.

By the end of the game, he had still at least half his army left, and my only models were 3 chaos spawn hiding on an objective. The score was almost close, if he didnt max out 2 of his secondaries through killing my crap.

Overall feels that death guard are pretty survivable, but their damage output (at least against marines) is still pretty pitiful. But I guess why compare anything to marines in 8th lol.

im happy to hear that ppls start to figure that Mortarion is NOT so overpowered and not a must include, anyway he needs to be played a bit different than in 8th, now he is most a force multiplier, used in/with support of other units, with cloud of flies and decent terrain shouldn't be so easy remove 10 posessed 2 drones and 3-5 spawns, and still have mortarion hitting on weak enemy sides (10 primaris in any case, are out of reach for him now), or deny the center of table. Anyway im quite sure that DG will NOT make the cut in 9th, playable, mid competitive but nothing that can shake the meta, imho.

This is why I believe that 3 PBCs are better than 1 Morty

Agree, same for me 2-3 pbc are needed, the list im actually play dont have Mortarion but 2 pbc+16 termies instead (10 blight and 2x3 ds)

Interesting that someone can have such different experiences in game. I just played ultramarines and the game felt un-losable, Bottom of the 3 my opponent conceded after G-man and his 3 redemptors where dead and I was up 35 points. I wasn’t running morty and my OP did make some mistakes like running too many intercessors and allowed me to dictate where fights happened, but I felt like I had a large cushion to win that game. Makes me think morty might be a liability in that matchup.


Here’s my current list for mono. Still soup is better until big bird gets nerfed, but I’m expecting that to happen soon. Plan here is to get mortal wounds out the wazoo and out muscle melee armies. Just have to hope no shooting army gives me too much trouble. Might also want cut some
Upgrades as well.



++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [76 PL, 1,505pts, -5CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Plague Company: The Inexorable

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Decay [-1CP]: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Lord of Contagion [6 PL, 125pts]: Manreaper and orb of desiccation

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [20 PL, 420pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Blight launcher
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

Deathshroud Terminators [14 PL, 270pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: Chimes of contagion, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
. 4x Deathshroud Terminator: 4x Manreaper, 4x Plaguespurt gauntlet

Foetid Virions [4 PL, 70pts, -1CP]
. Tallyman: 4. Arch-Contaminator, Plaguechosen

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 135pts]: Fleshmower

Foetid Bloat-drone [7 PL, 135pts]: Fleshmower

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [25 PL, 495pts, 12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Plague Company: The Harbingers

+ HQ +

Typhus [9 PL, 165pts]

+ Troops +

Poxwalkers [5 PL, 100pts]
. 20x Poxwalker: 20x Improvised weapon

+ Elites +

Deathshroud Terminators [7 PL, 155pts]
. Deathshroud Champion: 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
. 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet

Foetid Virions [4 PL, 75pts]
. Foul Blightspawn: 2. Living Plague, Revolting Stench-vats, Warlord

++ Total: [101 PL, 2,000pts, 7CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

^like that list a lot. I might try a variation on that myself but I'll prob drop a PBC for something as they're not doing much for me recently.

Couple of things, the lord of contagion and Tallyman only buff <plague company>. It isn't a problem going the other way as Typhus buffs Death Guard so can happily be in a separate plague company and the Blightspawn is only affecting enemy units but it might be worth moving your deathshroud into the vanguard so you don't have to remember that they can't be buffed by your LOC or tally. Unless I'm missing something that made you choose to do it this way?

Second thing was, what secondaries are you running with this list? While we stand?

In my experience I usually have the buff model following one or two dedicated units around, so I rarely run into the issue of a different plague companies being eligible for the buff.

While we stand really works well if you run lots of terminators, I usually get 10VP out of it if I'm a bit careful with not throwing them at units which blend them.

PBC's are auto-takes for me (generally two) largely because SM Eradicators are so stupidly dangerous, and every Marine player owns and runs them, functionally 100% of the time.

Being able to take out a crutch early helps win the psychological game, and has a value all its own.

I've just found whenever I drop the strat on a PBC I then roll a 1 for number of shots. I miss or fail to wound with at least one of the entropy cannons without fail too so they just seem to be incredibly swingy.

I appreciate that's anecdotally bad fortune, but even if you roll the big 6 for number of shots you'll statistically only kill a single eradicator without the strat. That's a hell of a lot of points to deal with a single unit, I know they are really nasty but still.
If they're starting on the board I think I'd rather take my chances, wait until they emerge, probably lose something like a drone and then hit them with a Contemptor which should wipe the unit in one go.

Anyone tried souping in CSM yet?
1 cheap Lord & 1 Sorcerer or 1 Prince instead with prescience might be a way to improve the dakka of three PBC a little bit.
Popping the PBC strat + hitting on 2s rerolling ones with one of them each turn sounds decent.
At least until CSM get their codex.

Eh, that's a lot of support to end up rolling one for shots anyways.

A few nice DG lists from a recent GT in NZ.

Abaddon303 wrote:
I've just found whenever I drop the strat on a PBC I then roll a 1 for number of shots. I miss or fail to wound with at least one of the entropy cannons without fail too so they just seem to be incredibly swingy.

I appreciate that's anecdotally bad fortune, but even if you roll the big 6 for number of shots you'll statistically only kill a single eradicator without the strat. That's a hell of a lot of points to deal with a single unit, I know they are really nasty but still.
If they're starting on the board I think I'd rather take my chances, wait until they emerge, probably lose something like a drone and then hit them with a Contemptor which should wipe the unit in one go.

I feel that the role of PBCs isn't to demolish your opponent's army. DG are not a leaf blower sort of army. The PBCs are there to engage your opponent's artillery in a shooting duel for the whole game and keep them busy. It doesn't matter how many PBCs survive till turn 5, as long as they kept your opponent's heavy support busy the whole game so that they don't shoot the rest of your army. The PBC guns are definitely swingy. But if they are there firing the whole game, it evens out.

The entropy cannons are the ones that do the big damage when they hit and get through. The mortar is more of a terror weapon. It targets the fragile units hiding behind obscuring terrain thinking they are safe and reminds them that they are not safe. This makes the PBC a big target, which it is happy to be because it is a tanky boy.

So like for example, a squad of bikes and attack bikes hiding behind obscuring terrain. Your PBCs rain mortar on them and they lose one or two bikes. The damage won't demolish a whole unit, but its the psycological attack. Suddenly, he feels that he has to do something with his bikes, or take out your PBCs, because if he just stays there, they will just keep on being whittled down by your mortars. So he risks moving them out to take a pot shot at your PBC, and then that exposes the bikes to get shot at directly by the entropy cannons or other guns.

Consider this. If you had no PBCs keeping their heavy support busy in an artillery duel, then their heavy support will target the next most tanky unit in your army. And that's likely to be your terminators, or maybe your FBD if you are running those. I rather they shoot their heavy guns at my PBCs the whole game in the end. Because its the terminators and my other units that will take the mid field objectives to help me win the game. The PBCs are literally expendable (unless they are chosen as the secondary "while we stand we fight".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
A few nice DG lists from a recent GT in NZ.

Hmm, interesting. mortarion may actually be advantageous in a DG vs DG match, because DG is usually not Shooty enough to threaten Mortarion.

Salt donkey wrote:Interesting that someone can have such different experiences in game. I just played ultramarines and the game felt un-losable, Bottom of the 3 my opponent conceded after G-man and his 3 redemptors where dead and I was up 35 points. I wasn’t running morty and my OP did make some mistakes like running too many intercessors and allowed me to dictate where fights happened, but I felt like I had a large cushion to win that game. Makes me think morty might be a liability in that matchup.

Let me give some context. This was the 3rd game against this marine player, and while I won the first 2 games, it was mostly off his target priority being bad/just not knowing how to play against death guard. By this game, he realized that targeting morty was a bait and it was more important to kill the rest of my stuff. Which he easily did. Im curious as to what you used to kill his redemptors? Morty was the only thing of mine that was able to kill one. Even a daemon prince failed to kill one, as it turns out having disgusting resilient on a dread makes it hard to kill lol. Did your burst crawlers do the damage?

It feels like if the opponent doesn't know how to engage death guard, we can win off objectives, but if they play right and target fire our troops, then there isn't much we can do. Terminators still are not super killy, despite their insane resilience. (Talking basically strictly about facing marines still). Fleshmower drones are good, but onlt against their intended target, t4 (->3) troops.

I do still think mortarion is strong, regardless if he is auto include or not. And if your facing marines, giving morty the No overwatch/no rerolls aura is CRAZY good. Worth it just to see my marine opponent go red in the cheeks when he realized he couldnt reroll literally every dice like he normally does haha.
On the contrary, I think droning is not very good against marines. By the time I was in range, he already had moved towards the mid of the table, and halfing that move did almost nothing to change his game plan.

Grotrebel wrote:Anyone tried souping in CSM yet?

In my list I ran a Chaos marine sorceror to give warptime to morty.... unfortunately he failed his powers and then got shot as his meat shields got removed.