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Maybe it's not rational, but seeing the buffs and changes being thrown out (mainly to SM) makes me simply not want to play until my codices drop (and counting on them getting as big buffs as SM)

It seems these new units and changes both to weapon dmg and stats are a far bigger boost than what a new codex usually brings for a faction.

Also, they dropped the Munitorium Field Manual not one month ago, and already they are changing the wounds and stats etc for not just one faction but many, in one fell swoop. Did they not know about this? I'm sure people like to have the book they bought a few weeks back be invalidated quickly.

Oh well, maybe I'm overreacting and everything is fine and balanced

Until the Guard dex drops, I'll limit myself to Kill Team and maybe the occasional small game in the 500/1000 points range.

I figure that 500 pt games will be more balanced on principle, as the very small CP pool will mean there won't be more than one stratagem per turn and the potential for min/maxing broken OP stuff is reduced.

I may figure wrong though.

When I get around to playing again, I will only be running my BA versus other SM armies and save the T'au to play against anything else.

Running any other way is going to make the game unfun for either myself or my opponent...

I think the real enjoyment many people get from 40k is edgy posts go show how critical they can be about something they only have passing information on and never used.

So in that sense you're still "playing". Thanks GW!

Totto wrote:
Maybe it's not rational, but seeing the buffs and changes being thrown out (mainly to SM) makes me simply not want to play until my codices drop (and counting on them getting as big buffs as SM)

It seems these new units and changes both to weapon dmg and stats are a far bigger boost than what a new codex usually brings for a faction.

Also, they dropped the Munitorium Field Manual not one month ago, and already they are changing the wounds and stats etc for not just one faction but many, in one fell swoop. Did they not know about this? I'm sure people like to have the book they bought a few weeks back be invalidated quickly.

Oh well, maybe I'm overreacting and everything is fine and balanced

Nothing is ever fine and balanced with GW. They are aiming for constantly shifting imbalance so if it WAS fine and balanced then somehow GW would have managed to screw up their own goal...

Constantly changing stuff and codex creep is standard with GW. As is design ethos changing with new edition and often mid-way as well. Scary prospect is they start buffing stats etc out and midway before all codexes comes out go for other route instead.

Totto wrote:
Maybe it's not rational...

Oh there's no maybe about it.

Totto wrote:
Maybe it's not rational, but seeing the buffs and changes being thrown out (mainly to SM) makes me simply not want to play until my codices drop (and counting on them getting as big buffs as SM)

It seems these new units and changes both to weapon dmg and stats are a far bigger boost than what a new codex usually brings for a faction.

Also, they dropped the Munitorium Field Manual not one month ago, and already they are changing the wounds and stats etc for not just one faction but many, in one fell swoop. Did they not know about this? I'm sure people like to have the book they bought a few weeks back be invalidated quickly.

Oh well, maybe I'm overreacting and everything is fine and balanced

i was barely tolerating 8th, i enjoy it for use as an engine for epic scale, but i was never really loving it, when i read the new rules for 9th i felt even less like playing it, the new changes just made it feel like a beta test. so i happily go back to playing 5th ed with a few house rules with friends.

The game has never and will never be "balanced" it was never intended to be a tournament system in that way, and now it is flatly impossible to do because there are to many factions with to much intentional variation to fit the setting.

tneva82 wrote:

Totto wrote:
Maybe it's not rational, but seeing the buffs and changes being thrown out (mainly to SM) makes me simply not want to play until my codices drop (and counting on them getting as big buffs as SM)

It seems these new units and changes both to weapon dmg and stats are a far bigger boost than what a new codex usually brings for a faction.

Also, they dropped the Munitorium Field Manual not one month ago, and already they are changing the wounds and stats etc for not just one faction but many, in one fell swoop. Did they not know about this? I'm sure people like to have the book they bought a few weeks back be invalidated quickly.

Oh well, maybe I'm overreacting and everything is fine and balanced

Nothing is ever fine and balanced with GW. They are aiming for constantly shifting imbalance so if it WAS fine and balanced then somehow GW would have managed to screw up their own goal...

Constantly changing stuff and codex creep is standard with GW. As is design ethos changing with new edition and often mid-way as well. Scary prospect is they start buffing stats etc out and midway before all codexes comes out go for other route instead.

I feel like 8th was doing pretty good before Marines 2.0
Sure the game wasn't perfect, some things were to strong, others to weak but in general it was fun to play and there was a good variety.

Then came along Marine 2.0, buffing an entire faction with an (almost) blanket -1 ap and +1 attack. And the rest of the factions were left wondering "how do we compete with this" and now there is another round of buffs for Marines...

Ive played 40k since 3e edition, I know their balance has been bad and I stopped playing during 6/7th because I didn't enjoy it. 8th was a breath of fresh air but now, I am getting massively turned off again.
Pandemic or not, the prospect of another 1 to 2 years of Marines Marines Marines in the vain hope that maybe other armies are brought up to level where they can once again compete is utterly unappealing to me.

I was working on ideas for re-tooling my current main army for 9th, but I suspect I will not be buying anything for a year atleast. I need to see where this is going first.

I feel a lot less inclined to play my orks right now for multiple reasons, including, but not limited to, the ones you mentioned.
Luckily, I also own DG which just had their awesome PA, probably get many of the imperial weapon upgrades early and are looking forward to 2W plague marines. I'm highly motivated to play them.

Picking an second army that is the polar opposite from my first one is one of the best things I've done in the context of 40k

Primaris armies aside, 40k is quite balanced at the moment IMHO.

Still looking forward to games.

Not doing any converting work on the building side, as who knows what the codex will bring, and I’ve been lightly burned on that before. (although it did work out in the end)

 Nevelon wrote:
Still looking forward to games.

Not doing any converting work on the building side, as who knows what the codex will bring, and I’ve been lightly burned on that before. (although it did work out in the end)

oddly thats one plus about Primaris. generally speaking a bx of intercessors is a LOT safer to build then a box of tac marines. but yeah I'm focusing on painting what I have till October. although I'm thinking of snagging a few more rhinos for my space wolves.

Same, here , stopped/cancelled all purchases.

regarding stopping all purchases, given the current supply situation if there is a unit you want but just don't know how to equip it I'd advise buying em if they become avaliable. I've a hunch the supply issues will continue for awhile.

Yeah, I was excited to see that 9th's core rules were also in Japanese for free, and had set about trying to get a few mini-armies from my collection ready, so the gf and I could have a go together.

The more GW showcase of this new edition... The less of the rules I think I will actually use. I've already got quite a few homebrew patches to make it work, but I doubt I'll invest in anything new unless GW really get their act together.

I simply can't unterstand how people get their knickers twisted about something that
a) we don't know the full extent about
b) is still at least a month and a half away

No, my local group and me will not stop playing 40k with each other. Utterly ridiculous to even think that.

If the imbalance widens between Marines and other factions due to the update and you dont feel of having a fun game, just play with the 8th edition rules until your army gets an update. There, problem solved.

No need to open thread after thread of whining and bi*ching about this.


Meanwhile, I'm ordering my next non-Marines army because the new edition is more fun than (even) 8th was for me.

Playing my first game of 9th on Monday against a good friend with all the new Indomitus stuff. We're both pretty casual but that will be the true litmus test of if I want to sit out 9th for a bit.

If my DG can't handle them prior to these buffs then I'll sit it out for the time being.

a_typical_hero wrote:
I simply can't unterstand how people get their knickers twisted about something that
a) we don't know the full extent about
b) is still at least a month and a half away

Because Marine 2.0 left a sour taste in peoples mouths and they have no faith in GW not creating a clusterfeth (and goes back well before the new marine dex).

This is what happens when you drip feed 'controversial' information like 2w marine and weapon buffs, people fill in the gaps themselves. Combine it with GW's release schedule and the notion 'Xenos will get fixed when their dex comes out, ps this may take 1-2 years, it isn't what people want to hear.

They already ran into this in 8th where everyone was put on par with the indexes and then armies get boosted by their codex, they had to release a bunch of stop-gap buffs in CA2017 to index armies to let them compete with codexes.

Edit: Also, do not underestimate how different the reaction to this would have been if they hadn't started the 'making elites more elite' with space marines, but any other faction, like Dark Eldar, Tau or Nids.

I don't think I will play any less because of it, but games will certainly have a lingering thought of ''well, what are the rules for this unit/weapon actually supposed to be?" and this will make it difficult to feel like I am learning anything or getting useful experience other than with the core rules of the edition.

Completely agree. The club is having the off 40k game but all of us with AOS armies are swapping over to that for the next few months

meh, did not like 8th, played a lot of Heresy until FW dropped the bollock on that too and now play Mournival Events Horus Heresy as it actually gets support.

The only game I like from GW main these days is the extremely flawed Necromunda

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Still looking forward to games.

Not doing any converting work on the building side, as who knows what the codex will bring, and I’ve been lightly burned on that before. (although it did work out in the end)

oddly thats one plus about Primaris. generally speaking a bx of intercessors is a LOT safer to build then a box of tac marines. but yeah I'm focusing on painting what I have till October. although I'm thinking of snagging a few more rhinos for my space wolves.

Generally when a new edition drops I look at how the rules/points/fluff have changed and what I need to do to keep up. Should I swap out the plasma pistols on my assault squads for flamers (or back to them)? Do I need to change my “shelf” deployment of my squads with stuff from the swap pile? Any new bits I need to magnetize up?

With the complete mess that is the 9th initial points, and the new codex a few months out, I’m not even thinking about it. OK, that’s a bit of a lie. I think about it (like if they are going to standardize combi weapon points, some sarges are getting upgrades) but I’m not going to do anything about it. And I only think about it when it comes up, I’m not digging into the numbers looking for things that need to happen.

I’m doing a little future proofing when building my Indominous box. For the Outrider sarge, I left his pistol arm unglued, and smoothed the spot where the chainsword attaches. So if he gets options, I can retrofit some magnets in, or just glue on the better options. Planning on doing the same with the Assault Intercessors. And I might only build 5 of them to start. I want to grab a box of normal Intercessors and do some body swaps. Make 5 running autobolt rifle guys, and 5 slightly more static CC ones. Help break up the repetition of bodies in squads. Unfortunately, all the local stores are sold out of the basic guys.

I am still building up my quarantine ‘Nid army. Grabbed the SC box last weekend.

And am getting ready to start up a crusade campaign with The Boy.

Nothing has changed yet. I'm enjoying the game. What happens in October, happens in October. Until then, the game is working out okay.

I certainly won't be BUYING anything until the two new books drop, but playing building and painting are all unaffected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ordana wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
I simply can't unterstand how people get their knickers twisted about something that
a) we don't know the full extent about
b) is still at least a month and a half away

Because Marine 2.0 left a sour taste in peoples mouths and they have no faith in GW not creating a clusterfeth (and goes back well before the new marine dex).

This is what happens when you drip feed 'controversial' information like 2w marine and weapon buffs, people fill in the gaps themselves. Combine it with GW's release schedule and the notion 'Xenos will get fixed when their dex comes out, ps this may take 1-2 years, it isn't what people want to hear.

They already ran into this in 8th where everyone was put on par with the indexes and then armies get boosted by their codex, they had to release a bunch of stop-gap buffs in CA2017 to index armies to let them compete with codexes.

Edit: Also, do not underestimate how different the reaction to this would have been if they hadn't started the 'making elites more elite' with space marines, but any other faction, like Dark Eldar, Tau or Nids.

Everyone was NOT put on par with the indexes. That's a bold faced lie. Just because you never played against quad stormraven or the secretly incredibly OP index Sisters list, didn't mean they weren't out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Playing my first game of 9th on Monday against a good friend with all the new Indomitus stuff. We're both pretty casual but that will be the true litmus test of if I want to sit out 9th for a bit.

If my DG can't handle them prior to these buffs then I'll sit it out for the time being.

DG are one of the better armies in the game overall right now. If you can't at least hold your own, that's on you not on them.

Was tempted but gak tsunami of a launch along with a promise of everything coming together on the 32nd of never has caused me to amble back into my hipster hole muttering thatll not do geedub ,thatll not do

Well, I feel that Primaris Marines and all the units in their tail rope are dominating the game.
Not only in friendly games but also in the competitive scenery.

I'm reserving judgement until I see at least 2 or 3 non-marine Codices before I make any real moves.

It's been like 3 weeks since 9th launched in the middle of Covid; 9th edition hasn't even started in any real practical sense.

Totto wrote:
Maybe it's not rational, but seeing the buffs and changes being thrown out (mainly to SM) makes me simply not want to play until my codices drop (and counting on them getting as big buffs as SM)

It seems these new units and changes both to weapon dmg and stats are a far bigger boost than what a new codex usually brings for a faction.

Also, they dropped the Munitorium Field Manual not one month ago, and already they are changing the wounds and stats etc for not just one faction but many, in one fell swoop. Did they not know about this? I'm sure people like to have the book they bought a few weeks back be invalidated quickly.

Oh well, maybe I'm overreacting and everything is fine and balanced

Firstly, points for using 'codices' and not the bastardisation of 'codexes'.
With all the changes from 8th to 9th editions, it's only made me want to play 5th edition more. When my eldar and GK didn't completely suck.
The last 40k tourney I played in was for 5th edition. Yes, that long ago.

Not really put of playing but I think this is a bad way to introduce a new edition.
I don't really get the "oh so you know whats in the codex then" takes.
No. I don't. Which is the problem.
The indexes were hardly perfect but odd units and skews aside they gave a rough idea how armies would play. A new codex would mean buffs, nerfs, stratagems, warlord traits etc but broadly speaking units did what units did.

Now I have very little idea. Will a unit be buffed or ignored? Will rules completely change? It puts me off buying stuff that may end up awful. (Magnetising *everything* would help I guess, but I'm lazy.)

 Oaka wrote:
I don't think I will play any less because of it, but games will certainly have a lingering thought of ''well, what are the rules for this unit/weapon actually supposed to be?" and this will make it difficult to feel like I am learning anything or getting useful experience other than with the core rules of the edition.

Finally, a properly reflective and insightful comment.

I've thought this as well, but at the same time it is evident that points are part of that equation. My 2W rubrics might not have died to that HOGC, but then I'd have less of them and theyd likely be targeted differently.

It doesn't matter what units I use. It matters that things are relatively balanced and I can make interesting decisions on the table.

Frankly 2W rubrics with 12" flamers will treated as an entirely different unit than my 1W rubrics or even my rubrics from every other edition.

Likewise, not going to change my game playing experience, but I will feel that I'm not truly playing 9th yet. Pretty sure I've heard the TT boys say the same thing, that it will feel great when it all gets here. Just how long is that going to be? Who knows.