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I am astounded at how offended some people are at miniatures in wheelchairs. There's room to criticize the styling or look, but being upset at the fundamental concept just for its own sake, or acting like the idea that people inserting themselves into fantasy worlds (or wanting to identify with characters) isn't something fundamentally inherent to the genre and RPG's in general (or that it isn't imagination), is both absurd and disappointing in the extreme. If *this* is what's going to ruin your immersion in a fantasy world, you probably weren't going to have a fun time anyway.

These mini's are pretty neat. The goals expressed are positive ones. Not seeing the problem here.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I am astounded at how offended some people are at miniatures in wheelchairs. There's room to criticize the styling or look, but being upset at the fundamental concept just for its own sake, or acting like the idea that people inserting themselves into fantasy worlds (or wanting to identify with characters) isn't something fundamentally inherent to the genre and RPG's in general (or that it isn't imagination), is both absurd and disappointing in the extreme. If *this* is what's going to ruin your immersion in a fantasy world, you probably weren't going to have a fun time anyway.

These mini's are pretty neat. The goals expressed are positive ones. Not seeing the problem here.

100% agreed on all points. At the very least, if one does not like it they can walk away. No one is forcing anyone to be inclusive, despite what triggered conservatives like to say. Sticking around to get offended is just... increasing the toxicity for no reason.

On an unrelated note, some of the sculpts are really good from a technical perspective. Look how crisp the leaves are on the druid.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I think—although I cannot be sure— you are most likely coming from a similar place and misunderstanding a turn of phrase.

Edit: ninja

No, you are correct to doubt. Although I wouldn't exactly call myself a Libertarian, I find the idea that the the lack of success of some people should be blamed on those that have succeeded to be fairly reprehensible. Maybe that's not really what he's saying, but if not, it seems to me to be perilously close to that ("The woes of the poor are mainly caused by the not-poor" etc etc).

I like these minis, though I can see why some people might see them as possibly being a bit condescending and some people might find them to be quite immersion-breaking (I don't see them as being either of those things but I'm not disabled and I don't play DnD).

I don't even think anyone would have a problem should someone express that they found them immersion-breaking, it is people making the extension of 'I do not like them = they are objectively bad' coupled with trying to justify that logical step via some link to disability or even as far as 'I have a different disability so it's okay for me to be toxic but not you.'

Anyways, @the OP do you forsee an expansion in the steampunk direction? I could definitely use that as a GM.

I'm iffy on the idea of identifying disabled people with wheelchairs. We did indeed use them several decades ago for various disabled advocacy groups (eg. cerebral palsey).

However, recent research with exoskeletons mentions preference of exoskeletons over wheelchairs. Even being able to stand up and be the same height as others was seen as an improvement. Some exoskeletons can be used in daily lives, but their current problem is that they're cost-prohibitive.

The closest to wheelchairs I've seen in RPG's are crippled beggars in cities on crude movement devices. However, you can argue that we certainly do have the disabled in RPG's. Pirates have amputated hands and feet, as well as missing eyes. Stealth types may wear blindfolds or masks which would prevent them from seeing. Some RPG systems have rules for disabled characters.

https://phys.org/news/2018-07-robotic-exoskeleton-disabled-people.html

THREE WORDS!!!!


Ivar The Boneless!!!

A mini in his metal leggings in his chariot..


I looked through the rest of the thread, and yeah It's not something people were screaming for, but it does look like a pretty good looking render so far. Lets see the casts, though.

As to fantasy with missing limbs, paralyzed, wounded, etc.etc...


Old World Warhammer Fantasy...

Those D100 tables ,,,,, mmmm....

http://bindslet.dk/rpg/4e_Critical_Reference_Sheet_1.04.pdf


And yeah, if you've seen someone smashed with a Warhammer, or Battle Axe, a "Wheeled Chair, pulled by 6 or 8 war dogs with spikes, and weapons and shield at the ready is not out of the question. We had one show up in a D and D game from hell one time, and it was quite a site to see a armored wheeled chair/ tank with the dogs running it around mowing people down.

A second thing that showed up was the armored skull cap, where one of the players lost half of his head and they scooped the brain up and cupped the brain cap and had an alchemist and I think it was the Blacksmith that put together an armored skull cap for the player.

Of course he had the battle rage rolls and some other crazy stuff, but it meant for a pretty cool game with a player that kept a guy going who could have easily rolled the sheet up in a ball and started from scratch....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warhammer- Damage Smithsonian You Tube show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsEzB4jxXt8

MAN AT ARMS: REFORGED Sigmar's hammer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvCr3oztVpg

Battle Axe, from Perth demonstration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkwRdv2i1EY

Longbow shooting the French
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGg3dqrzaY4

Vikings - The Great Heathen Army Battle #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kyeK3hKbBc


So yeah, getting pounced by these weapons can destroy a character.... You can end up crushed and in a "Wheeled Chair", or a Armored walking suit before you know it...

Then there would be the Undead character... You get killed, hacked to peices, and then are reanimated and put into the armored wheeled carts of doom...



MMMMM......

One of my favourite parts of the development of this are the rules that allow shape-shifting of the chair user.

If a chair user shifts into, say, a wolf then they can either have the chair simply disappear or (my favourite bit) have the chair shift into one of those awesome mobility aids for disabled animals.

And I just love the idea of a shape-shifted wolf with a pair of mobility wheels.

Our games can be challenging, inspiring, immersive and exciting, but above all, in a world that can seem joyless, or hobby should bring us joy. And the existence of these minis brings me joy.

That is fantastic, thank you for pointing that out.

The miniatures look great, although I would personally prefer some sci-fi versions as a later addition

Giving people fictional role models can be a very empowering thing, I know it helped me go through some of the issues I faced growing up and still face as an adult, just for being different. It is something that I have found while reading and seeing certain movies and series, which have helped me with my uniqueness and all of its good and bad things. It is something I also try to do when I write, as if it has helped me, it can help others.

Obviously, no generalization can be done with people, so some will like it, some will dislike it and some will feel neutral towards this concept. That applies to both those who are bound or not to a wheelchair. Humans are complex and strange beings. The important thing to remember is: if you dislike it you don't need to advertise it with a fiery passion, but you are allowed to dislike it, just the same as someone is allowed to like it. Remember that and play nice

There are people that will be offended with anything and can be very vocal about it, so don't worry about those
Even in this day and age I have met people that felt offended because I don't drink alcohol for health related reasons (and some other reasons as well), so people will complain about everything.

This isn't new there was Cohen the Barbarians mob of geriatric marauders some of whom had scythed wheelchairs or spiked mobility frames. It was a running joke in Pratchett's Discworld books. There were miniatures even:




Jokes aside some wounds don't heal, or there is a reason why a hero uses a mobile chair. Now I do think that articulated legs are better, wheels work too, and it cam be achieved with little more than an Animate Object spell.
If candelabra can be animated wheeled chairs can,

and according to the 3e rules would be fairly fast and have good carry weight. One need not even be disabled to use one, merely laden or in need of having a spread of accessories at easy hand.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm

According to 3e rules these wheelchairs have a speed of up to 70ft, which is ridiculously fast.

https://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm

According to 5e rules you would need an external mechanic to permanently animate your chair, but the fighting stats are not bad: Medium animated object (wheelchair) 40Hp, 13AC, +5 to hit, 2d6 + 1 damage Str10 Dex12.



If Davros can threaten the universe from a mobility scooter, fantasy heroes should able to perform too, and a common spell/ item enchantment can make this go a long way in the meta.

 GreenScorpion wrote:
The miniatures look great, although I would personally prefer some sci-fi versions as a later addition

True -- Outside of generic fantasy, it's not hard to find examples.

For superheroes, we have Marvel's Charles Xavier of the X-Men, who had both a wheelchair and hovercraft. He even had a new body, but had mental blocks walking -- perhaps similar to phantom limbs. DC has Oracle, formerly Batgirl, whose injury and disability was a key plot point and turning point for the character. If we go beyond wheelchairs, Marvel's Iron Man, Tony Stark, originally built his armor for a heart condition. While in cyberpunk and steampunk, the users of assistance technology.may not be thought of as disabled, that may be the whole point.

I should mention that, while old age isn't the same as a disability, fictional generic fantasy (and the Cthulhu mythos) treats the elderly, at least elderly males, much better than our own society. I don't think it would be difficult to say that generic fantasy miniatures have a far greater proportion of elderly male miniatures than, say, modern-day miniatures.

My only issue with the dwarf berzerker is that his chair isn't dwarfy enough!
It should be big, chunky, armor plated, with big grindy wheels for crunching up goblins. Like Bob the Inquisitor said, with a few exhaust pipes and boilers for good measure.

Good point!

Mebbe something that I also don't quite like about the the miniatures (and The Sims are that they feel like reskins.

So, yeah, I'd figure a dwarf would make a device based on their culture and use their Blood Bowl devices as inspiration for a wheelchair. Or, rather, Death Wheel Chair...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I am astounded at how offended some people are at miniatures in wheelchairs. There's room to criticize the styling or look, but being upset at the fundamental concept just for its own sake, or acting like the idea that people inserting themselves into fantasy worlds (or wanting to identify with characters) isn't something fundamentally inherent to the genre and RPG's in general (or that it isn't imagination), is both absurd and disappointing in the extreme. If *this* is what's going to ruin your immersion in a fantasy world, you probably weren't going to have a fun time anyway.

These mini's are pretty neat. The goals expressed are positive ones. Not seeing the problem here.

100% agreed on all points. At the very least, if one does not like it they can WALK AWAY. No one is forcing anyone to be inclusive, despite what triggered conservatives like to say. Sticking around to get offended is just... increasing the toxicity for no reason.

Bolded for Irony .

It's been a long time since I've read any D&D novels, but I distinctly remember one where a Character was cursed by their God and wasn't getting healed by anyone else , basically the God blackballed them for failing to complete their task, and none of the other deities were going to get involved.

Plenty of stories could be made to involve characters with disabilities, especially to go find a healing scroll/balm or other remedy. Plus I have had the pleasure of playing with people who were wheelchair bound (unfortunately he passed away many years ago now), so I might see which one reminds me most of Seth and paint it up as a reminder.

Find some of the comments here almost reprehensible. I don't care if you don't like them, the fact that there is an opportunity for a player to utilize a character that exists in a world that they have only ever known is fantastic. As a physical therapist, I completely applaud this project. Bravo.

You know what's more practical? A horse.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

john_chandler wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

john_chandler wrote:
Dumb question, but I'm assuming they're 28mm?

I can't see the scale stated anywhere, but they're STLs so you should be able to re-size them.

True, but I was thinking of the metal/resin versions.

i'm sure they'll be in the 28-35mm range most D&D stuff is, but as you say there's nothing on the website to say that I can see,

I've messaged them to ask and will report back

They've got back to me and the minis are on 25mm bases, so that should give you an idea of the size

Cool, thanks.

Will recommend to a friend of mine who is into D&D. She's done SF and fantasy cosplay in the past incorporating her wheelchair, and would dig these.

Inclusion should do just that- include everyone.

For any martial arts fans, do yourself a favor and find some of the media based on "The Four Constables" by Wen Ruian. The leader of the constables is a genius kung fu tactician and master of concealed weapons... who just so happens to be in a tricked- out wheelchair.

I know there's been a few seasons of it on TV (it's called "the four") and there were some comics based on it from Tony Wong's studios...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know what's more practical? A horse.

Yup, very practical!

Really, though, practicality isn't always the most important concern.

In fairness when you consider that most dungeons appear to have giants, giant spiders, dragons, gorgons and all manner of huge monsters I'd wager most could easily let you ride a horse inside.

 insaniak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know what's more practical? A horse.

Yup, very practical!

Really, though, practicality isn't always the most important concern.

Dungeons always hold trolls and Dragons and garbage like that. I think we can let a horse and other various mounts get a pass as I'm doubting most dungeons were built with wheelchair ramps in mind to begin with.

I mean, I get the product and the miniatures look good, but a mount just makes a bit more sense.

Wow I just notice this had gone up.

If you have any questions just ask!

Scale picture attached!

Im in a wheelchair and love these! Ill be looking into getting some.

Thank you.

I was more thinking of them for Warhammer and the like.

Quite like to see some more fantastical versions - so animated corpses/bones for a Necromancer, living wood for a druid etc?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know what's more practical? A horse.

It isn't really about practicality to begin with. Even if it was, horses are not at all practical (for far more reasons than just their size) as anyone who has actually dealt with horses will tell you. I would go so far as to say you probably know that, and are trying to criticize just for the sake of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strataminiatures wrote:
Wow I just notice this had gone up.

If you have any questions just ask!

Scale picture attached!

Thank you!

I mean, they look interesting and if makes people happy I don't think what the problem might be.

As an abled bodied cis white man, I personally would have preferred to see more "out there" versions of the wheelchairs, as those look a tad too... pedestrian, if you pardon the pun. Other than that? The minis look great.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You know what's more practical? A horse.

It isn't really about practicality to begin with. Even if it was, horses are not at all practical (for far more reasons than just their size) as anyone who has actually dealt with horses will tell you. I would go so far as to say you probably know that, and are trying to criticize just for the sake of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strataminiatures wrote:
Wow I just notice this had gone up.

If you have any questions just ask!

Scale picture attached!

Thank you!

I mean my girlfriend's dad owns a Ranch with horses soooooooo I've dealt with them before, and in terms of maintenance sure they're not easy, though riding isn't hard. In terms of an RPG though, it seems more likely you trained a horse or other mount, and you're strapped on compared to the magic wheelchair.

Like I said, I get the point of the miniatures and they look nice (especially the dwarf) but a mount just makes more sense if we are gonna break that barrier. I knew a guy in a wheelchair aeons ago that made his stand-in a Paladin riding some lizard thing (I forget the name it's been a while). It was cool how he did the mini as well. I already asked two of my current patients in wheelchairs (since they're younger adults and one actively wargames) and they asked why would you do that compared to riding on a bug or something. So I'm wondering how many actual handicapped people are enthused about it.

That is perfect; since you have access to horses, ride one into a tunnel no larger than 3x3 meters (10x10 feet, the traditional size for a large creature in RPGs) then turn around, go backward, attack with a mock weapon, and the like. I am not being sarcastic; it would be very interesting to hear real-world experience of how practical it is. Doubly so, since in an actual dungeon the steed would be getting attacked, injured, exposed to all manner of effects, and the like. Finding an animal trained to deal with those things without completely panicking would plausibly be at least as difficult as finding the magic to animate a wheelchair. So the horse needs to be as easy or easier to manage in a dungeon to even theoretically compete in the practicality department. This is also assuming all parts of all areas the adventurer encounters are large enough in the first place, which is almost never true from the onset.

Or admit the comment 'just use a horse!' was probably in poor taste and move on.

Wow.. did not notice that the rogue there was using her wheels as a bandolier for throwing knives..