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Rebel4ever85 wrote:
I dislike this because Ghazzy was the only real threat the Orks had. Who will lead them now? well there is.....hmm... yeah..

Prime Orks - Were put in so the Orks could even remotely threaten a Primarch lead imperium. I don't think one has ever existed in 40k and frankly Primarch Orks is just silly.

They could bring back Nazdreg? The other ork warboss character from back in third. Would actually give us a badmoons character. (and a reason to have a mega armored warboss kit/option again.)

 Skinflint Games wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/26/ghazghkull-can-he-krump-it/ felt this might be relevant

basically they made Ghazzy Krump anyone in the game but no one in the lore.

Classic GW

Beardedragon wrote:

 Skinflint Games wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/26/ghazghkull-can-he-krump-it/ felt this might be relevant

basically they made Ghazzy Krump anyone in the game but no one in the lore.

Classic GW

Ghaz achevied a DKO agaisnt one of the most prominant Marines in the lore. that's hardly him getting beat by some "nobody random human" but hey, keep misrepresenting stuff. It really makes you look good

Beardedragon wrote:
basically they made Ghazzy Krump anyone in the game but no one in the lore. Classic GW

Another reason why we shouldn't pay too much attention to the rules when discussing lore. Never mind Ragnar - are we really supposed to believe that Ghazzy can single-handedly take down a Knight without any real trouble?

Please don’t pay attention to their arena style fights they promote.
One of the worst ones is promoting the lion, who somehow manages to beat every other 30k primarch despite the odds of beating a few of them being less than 1%
They conveniently have perfect and terrible rolls when needed and “forget” certain special rules.


In the fluff, Ragnar is far from a basic marine.
He’s in line to pass Logan, who currently is believed to be the strongest the wolves have/had after Russ.
That’s pretty far from a basic marine.

He also didn’t kill ghaz, and he definitely didn’t get away from it lightly.

The final thing to consider is that GW writes some insanely bad fluff at times.
Their usual go to is killing a named greater daemon or avatar.

Or Drago who just pisses all over those achievements.

The fluff used to be pretty good, but now it’s lacklustre to say the least.
It’s targeted sales info more than anything now.

 Niiai wrote:
Several SW got psykick visions of war, of ragnar blackmane leeding them. Propfecy, or self profilled profecy.

"The Space Wolves around the table looked at each other. Gillir Thunderstone opened his mouth, then closed it again and sat down. Logan Grimnar nodded slowly.

‘Well,’ he eventually said, ‘someone better find out where in the damned galaxy we can find Ragnar Blackmane.’"

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/24/psychic-awakening-the-feast/

Call it what you want. But here you have agents activly working to furfill the prophesy. Logan Grimnar ordering the fining of Ragnar and pitting him against this Ork.

"He was no storm-caller, yet his quarters had turned colder than an ice wyrm’s lair. This had the mark of spirits and wyrd. The dream was so clear! Tor had felt the howl of the wind and the damp earth beneath the wolf ’s feet. Then the battle between wolf and beast… it had seemed as if he was witnessing events that had already come to pass. He was far from his kin, but he had felt a Sammekull – a call of the pack."

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/02/psychic-awakening-the-call-of-the-packgw-homepage-post-4/

Even regular run of the mill marines gets visions of this.

The prophecy of nothing meaningful happening .
Makes this whole thing even worse. Some random prophecy about nothing, happening for no reason .

Jackal90 wrote:
Please don’t pay attention to their arena style fights they promote.
One of the worst ones is promoting the lion, who somehow manages to beat every other 30k primarch despite the odds of beating a few of them being less than 1%
They conveniently have perfect and terrible rolls when needed and “forget” certain special rules.


In the fluff, Ragnar is far from a basic marine.
He’s in line to pass Logan, who currently is believed to be the strongest the wolves have/had after Russ.
That’s pretty far from a basic marine.

He also didn’t kill ghaz, and he definitely didn’t get away from it lightly.

The final thing to consider is that GW writes some insanely bad fluff at times.
Their usual go to is killing a named greater daemon or avatar.

Or Drago who just pisses all over those achievements.

The fluff used to be pretty good, but now it’s lacklustre to say the least.
It’s targeted sales info more than anything now.

Then why couldnt Ghaz just molest the chaptermaster Logan and then the mantle would be given to Ragnar after?

At least that way Ghaz could uphold his status as a beast and Ragnar could be set up as the person who avenges Logan by challanging Ghaz to a duel down the line. Theres nothing beastly about not winning to a second in command. The closest thing the orks has to a leader, that doesnt even achieve victory in a fight against someone that isnt even the leader of a SM chapter? No thank you. And he wasnt even lured in to a trap or nothing.

regardless of how you guys are reading it, then a second in command, aka, not even a chapter master Space marine, got a draw from basically the only Ork warboss that is worth anything to ork lore as it stands.

Next to that there are so many named space marines, but barely any named Orks. It wouldnt hurt the Space marine fan base nor universe to have Chapter master Logan krumped by Ghaz. It doesnt seem very grim dark when space marines seemingly always survive.

Its okay for the universe of warhammer, that named space marines die. there are so many named ones already to replace them.

 Super Ready wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
basically they made Ghazzy Krump anyone in the game but no one in the lore. Classic GW

Another reason why we shouldn't pay too much attention to the rules when discussing lore. Never mind Ragnar - are we really supposed to believe that Ghazzy can single-handedly take down a Knight without any real trouble?

Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

Sure. but the point is, there are very few note worthy orks but on the other hand,a ton of note worthy space marine or imperial people. It makes sense, sure, but because of it, it wouldnt hurt the universe of grim dark to actually be, Grim Dark. There isnt much Grim dark when the big bad ghazzy for instance loses to someone who isnt even a chapter master

Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

No, wazzdakka has been squatted in 7th. You are thinking of Zardsnark da Rippa whose only feat was leading warbikers against the imperial troops on Kastorell Novem with his bike breaking down before he reached the imperial lines. Fun fact: his Waaagh! aura doesn't even apply to bikes.

The most famous orks in line after Thrakka who still have models are probably Kaptin' Badrukk(currently hired by Thrakka) and Grotznik(always with Thrakka).

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

No, wazzdakka has been squatted in 7th. You are thinking of Zardsnark da Rippa whose only feat was leading warbikers against the imperial troops on Kastorell Novem with his bike breaking down before he reached the imperial lines. Fun fact: his Waaagh! aura doesn't even apply to bikes.

The most famous orks in line after Thrakka who still have models are probably Kaptin' Badrukk(currently hired by Thrakka) and Grotznik(always with Thrakka).

Wait they squatted wazzdakka?! Ffs gw...
They killed wazzdakka!!!!!!!

You bastards!

Beardedragon wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

Sure. but the point is, there are very few note worthy orks but on the other hand,a ton of note worthy space marine or imperial people. It makes sense, sure, but because of it, it wouldnt hurt the universe of grim dark to actually be, Grim Dark. There isnt much Grim dark when the big bad ghazzy for instance loses to someone who isnt even a chapter master

Want to do a fair comparison now?
Comparing note worth imperial characters is around half the characters in 40k, and you compare them against a single faction.

Why not compare Orks against another Xenos race?
Tyranid? Tau? Eldar? Dark Eldar? Necron?

Oh, orks have more well known characters than all of those so it doesn’t support the argument.

And you realise that the rank of a marine doesn’t support their fighting abilities, right?

Mephiston far exceeds Dante in fighting abilities, he isn’t a chapter master either.

Not all armies work like Orks.
The biggest and strongest doesn’t denote rank.

Beardedragon wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Please don’t pay attention to their arena style fights they promote.
One of the worst ones is promoting the lion, who somehow manages to beat every other 30k primarch despite the odds of beating a few of them being less than 1%
They conveniently have perfect and terrible rolls when needed and “forget” certain special rules.


In the fluff, Ragnar is far from a basic marine.
He’s in line to pass Logan, who currently is believed to be the strongest the wolves have/had after Russ.
That’s pretty far from a basic marine.

He also didn’t kill ghaz, and he definitely didn’t get away from it lightly.

The final thing to consider is that GW writes some insanely bad fluff at times.
Their usual go to is killing a named greater daemon or avatar.

Or Drago who just pisses all over those achievements.

The fluff used to be pretty good, but now it’s lacklustre to say the least.
It’s targeted sales info more than anything now.

Then why couldnt Ghaz just molest the chaptermaster Logan and then the mantle would be given to Ragnar after?

At least that way Ghaz could uphold his status as a beast and Ragnar could be set up as the person who avenges Logan by challanging Ghaz to a duel down the line. Theres nothing beastly about not winning to a second in command. The closest thing the orks has to a leader, that doesnt even achieve victory in a fight against someone that isnt even the leader of a SM chapter? No thank you. And he wasnt even lured in to a trap or nothing.

regardless of how you guys are reading it, then a second in command, aka, not even a chapter master Space marine, got a draw from basically the only Ork warboss that is worth anything to ork lore as it stands.

Next to that there are so many named space marines, but barely any named Orks. It wouldnt hurt the Space marine fan base nor universe to have Chapter master Logan krumped by Ghaz. It doesnt seem very grim dark when space marines seemingly always survive.

Its okay for the universe of warhammer, that named space marines die. there are so many named ones already to replace them.

because the purpose was to give ragnar an updated model. Which was kinda needed. Ragnar was literally the oldest Mini GW still produced before PotW

 Jidmah wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Another reason why we shouldn't pay too much attention to the rules when discussing lore. Never mind Ragnar - are we really supposed to believe that Ghazzy can single-handedly take down a Knight without any real trouble?

Actually, that pretty much is what his lore says, so yes you are supposed to believe that.

Wait, what? Really?! There's lore out there supporting Ghaz single-handedly smacking down a Knight?

Well, a warhound titan once stepped on him and he lifted its foot up to get out under it. He also tore a baneblade open with little effort.

It's not hard to extrapolate how a fight with a knight would go from that. While he probably wouldn't jump and finish it in one punch, I'm fairly sure that tearing off a knight's leg should be within his capabilities.
An agile fighter like Ragnar has greater chances of killing Thrakka than something that moves even slower.
On the tabletop he needs eight attacks to connect to kill a knight which would require some fairly lucky dice and isn't that "single-handedly" at all.

Warbosses in general have fairly insane strength and Thrakka is not only stronger than most of them in the first place but also has enhanced strength through his new suit of armor.

I don't think this has seen enough attention

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
didn't we have this argument 6 months ago?Ragnar is basicly the "original space wolves hero" he's been around as long as Ghaz has (if not longer) and is basicly the "Face" of the space wolves. Notice that the default Space Wolves company is his?

how would i know if we did? i started 3 months ago with warhammer tabletop

Step 1: Google Ragnar Blackmane
Step 2: Spend the rest of the day reading https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnar_Blackmane

Every faction has their version of "the most badass, super-duper extra coolest grimmest darkest warlord the universe has ever known" or whatever. All the faction fluff is over the top. The OP read the over the top fluff of the green fungus variety, liked it because GW's marketing his probably first faction as the best (because they all are, but likely he hasn't spent time with other faction books), and dislikes that the over the top fluff of the bluegrey posthuman variety won.

Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I don't think this has seen enough attention

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
didn't we have this argument 6 months ago?Ragnar is basicly the "original space wolves hero" he's been around as long as Ghaz has (if not longer) and is basicly the "Face" of the space wolves. Notice that the default Space Wolves company is his?

how would i know if we did? i started 3 months ago with warhammer tabletop

Step 1: Google Ragnar Blackmane
Step 2: Spend the rest of the day reading https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnar_Blackmane

Every faction has their version of "the most badass, super-duper extra coolest grimmest darkest warlord the universe has ever known" or whatever. All the faction fluff is over the top. The OP read the over the top fluff of the green fungus variety, liked it because GW's marketing his probably first faction as the best (because they all are, but likely he hasn't spent time with other faction books), and dislikes that the over the top fluff of the bluegrey posthuman variety won.

Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

Probably because, in the lore of the 40k universe, there's an obvious, eternal tier list that dictates who will win in a fight between "the single biggest baddest best coolest guy in the faction" vs any other faction.

The tier list is as follows:

Traitor Guard, Harlequins, Genestealer Cultists.

These factions do not have named heroes, and so basically lose by default going up against the named heroes of any other faction. In general terms, if a piece of fiction wholly invents a character, they have about a 100% chance of dying if they end up in a fight against a character who exists in the model range.

Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Eldar

Pretty much any character, no matter how important, from one of these factions that fights any named character from any other faction in the lore, will lose. Eldar will lose but won't die, or their named characters will just escape at the last minute. They can't bring those guys back but they do basically always lose, kind of the only exception to the general trend.

Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Daemons, Chaos Marines, Orks

This is the "Resurrectable" Tier. These aren't the factions GW is 100% dead-set on gaking on in lore whenever possible, but they are the factions with built in narrative reasons to come back when they die, or in the orks' case, not be dead yet and be able to come back from a big cinematic chopping apart. This is why despite being 10,000 years old, 50 feet tall, and imbued with the power of a literal god, the biggest baddest daemons and daemon primarchs will lose to any given chapter master let alone Guilliman.

Ynnari, Space Marines, Tau

The "Shoot, we don't have a way to bring this guy back" tier.

The lore for warhammer has always been about as tense or interesting as an episode of he-man or Conan the Barbarian. You know Conan is gonna win, he's on the cover of the next book. He's on the cover of ALL FIFTY of the next books.

It's why as soon as Psychic Awakening came out, you knew immediately:

PA1 Ynnari vs Dark Eldar vs Daeemons at the end: Ynnari are gonna win that
PA2 SM vs CSM: SM are gonna win that
PA3 BA vs Nids BA obviously.
PA4 Thousand Sons vs GK+DA marines win obviously.
PA5 Greater Good did predict Tau on this one and it was a "nobody wins"
PA6 I honestly stopped paying attention at all to who was in these at this point because 9th just kind of happened.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I don't think this has seen enough attention

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
didn't we have this argument 6 months ago?Ragnar is basicly the "original space wolves hero" he's been around as long as Ghaz has (if not longer) and is basicly the "Face" of the space wolves. Notice that the default Space Wolves company is his?

how would i know if we did? i started 3 months ago with warhammer tabletop

Step 1: Google Ragnar Blackmane
Step 2: Spend the rest of the day reading https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnar_Blackmane

Every faction has their version of "the most badass, super-duper extra coolest grimmest darkest warlord the universe has ever known" or whatever. All the faction fluff is over the top. The OP read the over the top fluff of the green fungus variety, liked it because GW's marketing his probably first faction as the best (because they all are, but likely he hasn't spent time with other faction books), and dislikes that the over the top fluff of the bluegrey posthuman variety won.

Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

except the "over the top blue grey guy" didn't win. it was, essentially a draw. and he's basicly acting like ragnar is some char that never existed before now. If I was gonna complain about this you can be damned sure I'd consult google before claiming the guy to beat Ghaz was some "nobody"

BrianDavion wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I don't think this has seen enough attention

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
didn't we have this argument 6 months ago?Ragnar is basicly the "original space wolves hero" he's been around as long as Ghaz has (if not longer) and is basicly the "Face" of the space wolves. Notice that the default Space Wolves company is his?

how would i know if we did? i started 3 months ago with warhammer tabletop

Step 1: Google Ragnar Blackmane
Step 2: Spend the rest of the day reading https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnar_Blackmane

Every faction has their version of "the most badass, super-duper extra coolest grimmest darkest warlord the universe has ever known" or whatever. All the faction fluff is over the top. The OP read the over the top fluff of the green fungus variety, liked it because GW's marketing his probably first faction as the best (because they all are, but likely he hasn't spent time with other faction books), and dislikes that the over the top fluff of the bluegrey posthuman variety won.

Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

except the "over the top blue grey guy" didn't win. it was, essentially a draw. and he's basicly acting like ragnar is some char that never existed before now. If I was gonna complain about this you can be damned sure I'd consult google before claiming the guy to beat Ghaz was some "nobody"

A draw to a second in command who isnt even the Chapter master.

So yes, a nobody.

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I don't think this has seen enough attention

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
didn't we have this argument 6 months ago?Ragnar is basicly the "original space wolves hero" he's been around as long as Ghaz has (if not longer) and is basicly the "Face" of the space wolves. Notice that the default Space Wolves company is his?

how would i know if we did? i started 3 months ago with warhammer tabletop

Step 1: Google Ragnar Blackmane
Step 2: Spend the rest of the day reading https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnar_Blackmane

Every faction has their version of "the most badass, super-duper extra coolest grimmest darkest warlord the universe has ever known" or whatever. All the faction fluff is over the top. The OP read the over the top fluff of the green fungus variety, liked it because GW's marketing his probably first faction as the best (because they all are, but likely he hasn't spent time with other faction books), and dislikes that the over the top fluff of the bluegrey posthuman variety won.

Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

except the "over the top blue grey guy" didn't win. it was, essentially a draw. and he's basicly acting like ragnar is some char that never existed before now. If I was gonna complain about this you can be damned sure I'd consult google before claiming the guy to beat Ghaz was some "nobody"

A draw to a second in command who isnt even the Chapter master.

So yes, a nobody.

Sorry but what? How can you be both the second in command and chapter master of a SM chapter? Those roles are pretty much mutually exclusive outside of crusade level events. Furthermore, just because you're second in command doesn't mean your nobody, in fact that makes you somebody just by virtue that it usually means you're the heir apparent or next leader. Cato Sicarius for example is captain of the 2nd company but most see him as Calgar's successor, so if you got into a fight with him it wouldn't be considered nothing. Ragnar is already well above the average captain and Chapter Master of most SM chapters in terms of feats and as mentioned previously he has a separate BL series about him amongst the well established fluff about him way back to near beginning of the 40K universe.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Isn't wazzdakka the FW biker boss still around?
You know, mister i drive my bike into the cupola of a titan?

If i'd follow one ork that that one

No, wazzdakka has been squatted in 7th. You are thinking of Zardsnark da Rippa whose only feat was leading warbikers against the imperial troops on Kastorell Novem with his bike breaking down before he reached the imperial lines. Fun fact: his Waaagh! aura doesn't even apply to bikes.

The most famous orks in line after Thrakka who still have models are probably Kaptin' Badrukk(currently hired by Thrakka) and Grotznik(always with Thrakka).

Wait they squatted wazzdakka?! Ffs gw...
They killed wazzdakka!!!!!!!

You bastards!

Not quite squatted. But he has been relegated to one of those little boxes which mention a something happening on the sidelines. But yeah, sadly yeah you can't use wazdakka, or Zogwart. GW is really picky with which characters it supports and which it just drops. Ask a dark elder player for instance. (or most of Warhammer Fantasy.)

Beardedragon wrote:So yes, a nobody.

You really ought to read up on SW lore, because you're just not correct here.

As far as my opinion goes, Ragnar was a mistake. Not because he was a "nobody", he's clearly not - but because he doesn't have pre-existing stakes with Ghaz. Narratively, it feels unfulfilling because of the mutual "kill" element which gets reversed into a "mutual survival", and because there are other Imperial characters who could have had some excellent grudges to be held and meted out against Ghaz.

I'll go through some:
Tu'Shan - Salamanders Chapter Master, was incredibly invested in the Second and Third Wars for Armageddon, and his Salamanders were heavily deployed against Ork forces there. Could have been the Salamanders Primaris model too, instead of Agatone - finally giving us a model for the Salamanders Chapter Master so many had wanted.

Belial - Bisected by Ghaz at Piscina. There's definitely a grudge match there - AND, would have allowed us to have Primaris DA character who we actually knew, and could have dispelled myths about "the DA would NEVER accept a Primaris Marine".

Helbrecht/Grimaldus - Black Templars High Marshal and Reclusiarch respectively. Helbrecht was part of the Third War, instrumental in the fleet action, and actually pursued Ghazzy after the Ork left the warzone. Grimaldus, on the other hand, was deployed on the surface, has had quite a lot of stuff written on/around them, and even a fan-animation series dedicated around one of these books. Both are iconic figures of the Black Templars, and would have made a nice addition to the Templars, who currently lack a Primaris named HQ. I would lead towards Grimaldus, as Helbrecht also has beef with Imotekh.

Yarrick - The Man, the Myth, the Legend. Yarrick and Ghazzy are historically known to be intertwined with one another. Yarrick, having defended Hades Hive and stalled Ghaz in the first Ork invasion, Ghaz who steamrolled Yarrick on Golgotha, released him, and fought again in the Third War of Armageddon. Yarrick even pursued Ghaz alongside Helbrecht! And, while Yarrick definitely shouldn't be a physical match for Ghaz, I certainly wouldn't have objected to something like a Fortress of Arrogance encounter against Ghaz, or more of a strategic war, wherein Ragnar might have been under Yarrick's command.

In my ideal outcome, it would have been something like Yarrick leading the campaign again Ghaz, Ghaz "killing" one of the above Space Marines who accompanied Yarrick on the old man's quest for vengeance (to be Primaris'd later), and then getting blown apart by Yarrick in the Fortress of Arrogance (with Ghaz's head surviving in much the same way. That way, we satisfy Ghaz being a Krumpy Ork, a Space Marine getting to be Primaris'd, Ghaz getting his massive model upgrade, and Yarrick getting his revenge!

Beardedragon wrote:
A draw to a second in command who isnt even the Chapter master.

So yes, a nobody.

Sorry, but after everything that was written in this thread, that is just trolling.

Ragnar was by all means a worthy opponent for Thrakka.

Beardedragon wrote:
A draw to a second in command who isnt even the Chapter master.
So yes, a nobody.

*Drumroll please*

PRESENTING! A list of "nobodies" in the 40k universe, per this criteria (non-exhaustive, I'm sure there's more):

Mephiston
Kharn the Betrayer
Lelith Hesperax
Celestine the Living Saint
Any and all non-Exalted Greater Daemons
All operating agents of the Officio Assassinorum

Not that I'm saying all of these could beat Ghazghkull - just pointing out the folly of assuming that anyone under a given faction's de facto leader is a "nobody".

Sgt_Smudge, great list. I think they went the really lazy route in that a lot of SW art has had them fighting Orks, but I'd be 100% behind a post-Armageddon grudge match. Yarrick and frankly any revamped guard infantry (sure, Cadians, why not? Catachan would work okay. Steel Legion would be epic; etc etc.) would have been pretty epic. And while Ragnar certainly could use the new model, all of your suggestions feel way more appropriate. BT IIRC haven't seen anything new in ages, and the others are nice, too. Or maybe a BA. I feel like some other than Tycho were there?

 Super Ready wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
A draw to a second in command who isnt even the Chapter master.
So yes, a nobody.

*Drumroll please*

PRESENTING! A list of "nobodies" in the 40k universe, per this criteria (non-exhaustive, I'm sure there's more):

Mephiston
Kharn the Betrayer
Lelith Hesperax
Celestine the Living Saint
Any and all non-Exalted Greater Daemons
All operating agents of the Officio Assassinorum

Not that I'm saying all of these could beat Ghazghkull - just pointing out the folly of assuming that anyone under a given faction's de facto leader is a "nobody".

Space Wolves in partcular as they essentially have 12 Chapter Masters (witch Ragnar is) with Bjorn as honorable mention, but that is just because he needs rutine maintenance. I mean, Bjorn is one of the few models that where around before the Horus Heresey and stil walks around on the imperial side with a model in game. (Guliman Being another. Cawl. It is a short list.)

spiralingcadaver wrote: And while Ragnar certainly could use the new model, all of your suggestions feel way more appropriate. BT IIRC haven't seen anything new in ages, and the others are nice, too. Or maybe a BA. I feel like some other than Tycho were there?

Mephiston was present (in fact, I believe it was either the first or second Ork war that prompted his apotheosis from Calistarius to Mephiston), and Dante was the operational commander in the Second War of Armageddon, out-ranking both Calgar and Tu'Shan. However, my reasons for it not being the above are:

Tycho - well, he actually died. He would have been close to a top pick had he not died, because I LOVE Tycho's fluff, but unfortunately, no longer with us.

Dante - a good pick, but he wasn't really involved so much with the Third War, which is where I think the real grudge match kicked in between Yarrick and Ghaz. Plus, the whole Tyranids situation feels more imminent for Dante, so I think I prefer him in that narrative thread. Though I would love to see a new model for him, as the current second-in-command under Guilliman.

Mephiston - also a great pick, but again, I feel the Tyranids stuff is more pertinent to him and the BA generally now. I think Mephiston's narrative is largely more defined by his own condition with the Rage/Thirst than it is directly with the Orks.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Tycho - well, he actually died. He would have been close to a top pick had he not died, because I LOVE Tycho's fluff, but unfortunately, no longer with us.

Yeah, Tycho is probably my favorite BA proper (I like some of the successor characters as much). It's a shame that he didn't get a model after I want to say 2nd edition? But I like his arc.

Oh, also, didn't BA get a named chaplain related to Armageddon?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Maybe I'm being a killjoy, but I don't understand why this is still a debate.

Because people continue to pretend that Ragnar is just some ordinary, dime-a-dozen Space Marine Captain.