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Lictor, Biovore, Pyrovore and that'd be everything outside of a single special character in plastic (presumably the Biovore would come with plastic Spore Mines, rendering the still-in-production 3rd Ed ones unnecessary).

I think it's kinda telling that people are a bit cautious about Ork Boyz getting updated models because if how GW's current designs and pricing is a detriment to the consumer more so than a benefit.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Note that I'm not an ork player so I'm not saying that they should or should not. From what I've read, the base infantry for the orks is quite old, and there are complaints that they should deserve an update. As far as I know, they don't have tin man models like the eldar do, but still. However, looking at them, they look pretty detailed and hold up well to new models like the buggies and Ghaz. That being said, having an entire line as old as they are I don't think set a good standard. What do you think, should the base of the ork line be remade or not?

Necessary? No, you could play the game with a couple rolls of quarters painted with numbers and symbols. But it would be nice, there's a lot of work that could be done if just to get the models back into scale compared to guardsmen and spacemarines.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Lictor, Biovore, Pyrovore and that'd be everything outside of a single special character in plastic (presumably the Biovore would come with plastic Spore Mines, rendering the still-in-production 3rd Ed ones unnecessary).

I think there's an argument for re-done Gaunts so the heads aren't in two pieces, assuming that's still a thing, but the same argument then applies regarding pricing that we see for Boyz.

Thinking about Tankbusters and Kommandos, do you think you could get away with just an upgrade sprue alongside a Boyz sprue to make them, or would a brand new kit be required? I appreciate that if/when GW does do them it'll be a new kit, featuring monopose-for-days, but for those Ork players out there, could an upgrade sprue approach work?

Been said but to reiterate. Orkz need HQ's in plastic including the ones they turned into legend/squatted. Beyond that, Tankbustas and Kommandos and we are good to go.

Honestly I think the Eldar need the love more than anyone else right now.

Honestly, I'd love to see what GW could do with a plastic warboss mini these days. I bet it'd looks awesome

Tankbustas and kommandos aren't great choices for GW though because we all know that many players will convert boyz anyway. Tankbustas are just boyz with a rokkit and kommandos are exactly like boyz.

Those kits won't sell enough, unless GW decides to re-do them completely by giving them very different wargear, something that can't be kitbashed from other boxes. And I'm not sure how many ork players would want that, I certainly don't.

 Dysartes wrote:
Thinking about Tankbusters and Kommandos, do you think you could get away with just an upgrade sprue alongside a Boyz sprue to make them, or would a brand new kit be required? I appreciate that if/when GW does do them it'll be a new kit, featuring monopose-for-days, but for those Ork players out there, could an upgrade sprue approach work?

It's not like the current metal/failcast models aren't monopose, so it doesn't really matter. There used to be a kommandoz upgrade kit, but I agree with Blackie - the upgrades are pretty much rokkit launchas for tank bustas and heads+bagpacks for kommadoz. Most orks players probably would just use the piles of those they have lying around.

A box that builds into a whole unit of tank bustas with bomb squigs or a box with 15 kommandoz though? I'd buy that, if the price isn't completely insane. If I need three or four boxes to build a single unit,they can keep their mono-pose orks.

 Blackie wrote:
Tankbustas and kommandos aren't great choices for GW though because we all know that many players will convert boyz anyway. Tankbustas are just boyz with a rokkit and kommandos are exactly like boyz.
Those kits won't sell enough, unless GW decides to re-do them completely by giving them very different wargear, something that can't be kitbashed from other boxes. And I'm not sure how many ork players would want that, I certainly don't.

Or, if they made them look completely awesome. I'm no Ork player, but I know if I were fielding Kommandos, I'd want them all looking like Snikrot with his sweet sweet night-vision goggles and big ol' knife. The current Kommandos unit just doesn't look right to me, they really are just boys with more bitz, there's nothing "special" about them.

Orks just need an update to the range to replace any pewter/finecast units and units that exist on paper but not in physical models.

But I do agree that there are ranges faaaaar more needing of an update than orks at the moment.

sorry bad thread.

 Dysartes wrote:
Thinking about Tankbusters and Kommandos, do you think you could get away with just an upgrade sprue alongside a Boyz sprue to make them, or would a brand new kit be required? I appreciate that if/when GW does do them it'll be a new kit, featuring monopose-for-days, but for those Ork players out there, could an upgrade sprue approach work?

It could 100% be done with an upgrade sprue. It 100% won't be done with an upgrade sprue!

On the bright side, plastic Tankbusters would give us plastic Bomb Squigs. I see no downside to that.

And I'd hope a plastic Kommando sprue involves one of the wearing a pair of night-vision goggles backwards.

BrianDavion wrote:
Honestly, I'd love to see what GW could do with a plastic warboss mini these days. I bet it'd looks awesome

Look awesome, yes, but he'd have one pose and exactly one set of weapon options (everything else would go Legends, or just be cut altogether).

We do have a plastic warboss though, they just decided to not sell it without a box of nobz for some dumb reason... or maybe smart reason? Technically, all the options are in the same box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It could 100% be done with an upgrade sprue. It 100% won't be done with an upgrade sprue!

It can sort of be done. There are things that wouldn't get accomplished by just an upgrade sprue. Overall scale is one of those things. And I absolutely don't blame any player who doesn't want to buy new stuff just to make their models 2cm taller. I do wonder if redone guardsmen models are taller than orks yet. SM models have grown taller several times over the years. And boy howdy, you ought to see how short the Avatar used to be. Of course, GW won't make you buy new stuff, they'll just tempt you into it with a new line. If I were playing Orks, I'd slowly replace stuff if it came out newer, taller, and better. I'd also mix the old models in to both avoid what we're calling monopose now and add some height variation to really work in the Orks get bigger as they get meaner kind of thing. CSM needs better kits, not necessarily new ones. Or a universal upgrade sprue with all the option parts they're missing more. Eldar of both Ael and Dru should be at the front of the line however. Karandas alone...

Breton wrote:
If I were playing Orks, I'd slowly replace stuff if it came out newer, taller, and better. I'd also mix the old models in to both avoid what we're calling monopose now and add some height variation to really work in the Orks get bigger as they get meaner kind of thing.

Yeah, that's something an actual ork player would never do. I have somewhere between 200 and 300 boyz, not counting all the other infantry units, like hell would I start replacing and repainting those - especially not with their current pricing.
In addition, all plastic kits that orks have except the new buggies are based of the exact sculpts as boyz. In the case of warbikers and lootas/burnas they even have bits that are identical.

The only way to change the scale of orks would be by redoing the entire range primaris-style. No one needs that.

If I had a dollar for every kit that was redone unnecessarily I could buy a Chaos Apocalypse boxed set...

 Just Tony wrote:
If I had a dollar for every kit that was redone unnecessarily I could buy a Chaos Apocalypse boxed set...

I'm curious - which kits do you think have been redone unnecessarily?

 Jidmah wrote:

Breton wrote:
If I were playing Orks, I'd slowly replace stuff if it came out newer, taller, and better. I'd also mix the old models in to both avoid what we're calling monopose now and add some height variation to really work in the Orks get bigger as they get meaner kind of thing.

Yeah, that's something an actual ork player would never do. I have somewhere between 200 and 300 boyz, not counting all the other infantry units, like hell would I start replacing and repainting those - especially not with their current pricing.
In addition, all plastic kits that orks have except the new buggies are based of the exact sculpts as boyz. In the case of warbikers and lootas/burnas they even have bits that are identical.

The only way to change the scale of orks would be by redoing the entire range primaris-style. No one needs that.

I like painting. I suck at it, but it's something I can do between games and mixing in new and old models would help the visual variety. I wouldn't replace them all, but I'd do some while waiting for a next New Release. Heck I replaced a Land Raider Crusader because I was tired of gluing the frickin' metal Hurricane Bolters back together. Not that I tossed the old one, it just became the third LR.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
If I had a dollar for every kit that was redone unnecessarily I could buy a Chaos Apocalypse boxed set...

I'm curious - which kits do you think have been redone unnecessarily?

Hi, my name is Primaris Captain Lieutenant. It's nice to meet you. For a more serious answer, I think the SM Dev Squad and Assault Squads were redone for fairly minor changes in years past, it definitely does happen. To be fair, we usually don't know if it's because they wanted to redo the kit, or if the mold wore out/broke and they were forced to redo the kit.

OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

Ehh...

Ork Boyz might be a 'rounded off kit', but there's definitely room for improvement. The build quality is fine but could definitely stand to be better. It's also a wild, pie in the sky possibility that the Boyz get redone to bring in an 'Ard Boyz option as well.

We saw the Tau Fire Warrior kit get redone in such a manner, with a new unit(Breachers) being added to the roster while retaining the existing options.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

The Boys are very old models and the quality has leapt up in the past few years. I can understand the rationale that a horde unit should be bare bones. But, they are showing their age and you could get a lot more detail and poses; as well as make them more truescale with a full resculpt.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ork Boyz might be a 'rounded off kit', but there's definitely room for improvement. The build quality is fine but could definitely stand to be better. It's also a wild, pie in the sky possibility that the Boyz get redone to bring in an 'Ard Boyz option as well..

Boyz already have the 'ard boyz options in the box, GW just forgot about them. You can have 4 'ard boyz per box so every third mob of boyz you build can be 'ard boyz - which was no problem, considering how you used to be able to field only one unit of them.

If you say there is room for improvement, what exactly are you talking about?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breton wrote:
I like painting. I suck at it, but it's something I can do between games and mixing in new and old models would help the visual variety. I wouldn't replace them all, but I'd do some while waiting for a next New Release. Heck I replaced a Land Raider Crusader because I was tired of gluing the frickin' metal Hurricane Bolters back together. Not that I tossed the old one, it just became the third LR.

See, this is what I mean. You compare a large vehicle that gets noticed with a unit of 30 boyz that is back in the case before they move. Orks have tons of models which are actually fun to paint, why would I rebuy and repaint boyz?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
The Boys are very old models and the quality has leapt up in the past few years. I can understand the rationale that a horde unit should be bare bones. But, they are showing their age and you could get a lot more detail and poses; as well as make them more truescale with a full resculpt.

So you say that boyz, warbikers, lootas, burnas, trukks and battlewagons all need to be redone, right?

Oh, and those boyz are fully posable and have tons of details in their box you could add to them, people just stop enhancing them with details posing them in interesting ways after the first 50.

The difference in detail between ork boyz and the orks on the buggies is minimal.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

The Boys are very old models and the quality has leapt up in the past few years. I can understand the rationale that a horde unit should be bare bones. But, they are showing their age and you could get a lot more detail and poses; as well as make them more truescale with a full resculpt.

Old perhaps, but the quality IMO is fine for their purpose given that most Ork Boyz units usually don't live past a turn or two max. Furthermore, I don't know about you, but detail is something we DON'T need for boyz, we have plenty already between all the straps and add-ons you can put on a regular boy, if you haven't painted Ork boyz before, you'll know that unlike gaunts that we can't just slap one or two coats of paint and call it done, it actually takes a surprising amount of time even for speed-painting. So having more detail on top of that would be unwelcome. Also, given GW's take on poses now, we actually have more than enough available to boyz already and I personally don't see the need for truescale when the Ork line has a nice level of height differentiation between its various units already, with grots the shortest, boyz the next, followed by Nobz and then the Warboss. Unlike SM, there isn't this feeling of them being undersized IMO.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

The Boys are very old models and the quality has leapt up in the past few years. I can understand the rationale that a horde unit should be bare bones. But, they are showing their age and you could get a lot more detail and poses; as well as make them more truescale with a full resculpt.

I don't know what you mean by 'truescale' here. Orks are made up, their current size is fine (especially since their posture is hunched & bow-legged), and works with notable differences between boys, nobs and warbosses.
Its worth noting that necron warriors were actually scaled down a bit- about the same height, but without the wide-spread legs, and significantly less bulky.

Cycling them to a different scale would just be irritating, costly and offer no benefit.

They aren't really 'showing their age' at all. They've got a packed sprue with diversity and options, and highlight the character of the army.

I certainly wouldn't want any more 'detail' on them. Models hidden underneath over-blinged junk is something I really dislike.

Dysartes wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
If I had a dollar for every kit that was redone unnecessarily I could buy a Chaos Apocalypse boxed set...

I'm curious - which kits do you think have been redone unnecessarily?

Just in 40K? Several Marine kits, the Primaris in their entirety, Tau Fire Warriors, Chaos Marines... The list is massive. Was there a reason to revamp the entire Marine line from 3rd? No, not at all. The only reason they'd even do something like that is because the fan base has this weird obsession with rebuying their entire collection.

And that's before we even TOUCH WFB models that didn't need redone.

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Breton wrote:
If I were playing Orks, I'd slowly replace stuff if it came out newer, taller, and better. I'd also mix the old models in to both avoid what we're calling monopose now and add some height variation to really work in the Orks get bigger as they get meaner kind of thing.

Yeah, that's something an actual ork player would never do. I have somewhere between 200 and 300 boyz, not counting all the other infantry units, like hell would I start replacing and repainting those - especially not with their current pricing.
In addition, all plastic kits that orks have except the new buggies are based of the exact sculpts as boyz. In the case of warbikers and lootas/burnas they even have bits that are identical.

The only way to change the scale of orks would be by redoing the entire range primaris-style. No one needs that.

I like painting. I suck at it, but it's something I can do between games and mixing in new and old models would help the visual variety. I wouldn't replace them all, but I'd do some while waiting for a next New Release. Heck I replaced a Land Raider Crusader because I was tired of gluing the frickin' metal Hurricane Bolters back together. Not that I tossed the old one, it just became the third LR.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
If I had a dollar for every kit that was redone unnecessarily I could buy a Chaos Apocalypse boxed set...

I'm curious - which kits do you think have been redone unnecessarily?

Hi, my name is Primaris Captain Lieutenant. It's nice to meet you. For a more serious answer, I think the SM Dev Squad and Assault Squads were redone for fairly minor changes in years past, it definitely does happen. To be fair, we usually don't know if it's because they wanted to redo the kit, or if the mold wore out/broke and they were forced to redo the kit.

The same Army men plastic figures have been run now for 40 years or more. 40 years on kits that are run in WAY higher production numbers than any GW kit at all. Hell, look at how many He-Man figures used the EXACT same upper torso piece. You think that mass producing that many sprues would have shattered the mold if you'd believe GW's spiel about mold degradation. Here's a though for those that know nothing of plastic production: master molds. Most companies keep a copy of their tooling to be able to run new production plates as necessary. The cost of producing said plates is NOT that high.

And before anyone asks, I'm a machinist. I know tool and die in and out, so I know exactly how expensive making a new mold plate is NOT.

I never really got into orks because I thought the boyz didn’t look good mostly due to their legs and their goofy poses. If GW released hulking and actually menacing looking boyz then I’d be all over it. Nobs are alright though, but I wouldn’t say no to an update for them too.

When it came to tau, I replaced my fire warriors because I finally learned how to paint and wanted a new paint scheme. I still have the old ones but I don’t use them.

Fundamentally though I’m a collector first and gamer sometimes, so I don’t rush out and buy 10 boxes of anything, so updating models is actually fun.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP

Yes there’s a lot of old units there. If they redo Necrons Warriors I see no reason Ork Boys are off the table.

Necron Warriors make sense though because they want to move away from the green rods and the fact that unlike most troops choices they only had one weapon option, so they have a bit more to play with in terms of adding to the sprue. Ork Boyz are effectively a rounded off kit unless they bring unnecessary weapons options to the unit.

The Boys are very old models and the quality has leapt up in the past few years. I can understand the rationale that a horde unit should be bare bones. But, they are showing their age and you could get a lot more detail and poses; as well as make them more truescale with a full resculpt.

I wouldn't want more detail, but I wouldn't mind better detail. Detail that works better with less work i.e. contrast paints, shades and washes etc...

 Just Tony wrote:

The same Army men plastic figures have been run now for 40 years or more. 40 years on kits that are run in WAY higher production numbers than any GW kit at all. Hell, look at how many He-Man figures used the EXACT same upper torso piece. You think that mass producing that many sprues would have shattered the mold if you'd believe GW's spiel about mold degradation. Here's a though for those that know nothing of plastic production: master molds. Most companies keep a copy of their tooling to be able to run new production plates as necessary. The cost of producing said plates is NOT that high.

And before anyone asks, I'm a machinist. I know tool and die in and out, so I know exactly how expensive making a new mold plate is NOT.

While, yes, the moulds wearing out is not so much a thing at GW's production volumes, there have been at least two kits in the past (the original land raider and the original battle wagon) that were reportedly withdrawn from sale because the moulds were broken. GW's processes have changed a bit over the last decade or so, and it's quite likely they're not as reliant on a single tool per kit anymore... but it has been an issue in the past.

I'm not sure what 'spiel' of GW's you're referring to, though. I don't recall ever seeing anything from them about mould degradation. The moulds that were broken were supposedly dropped, not worn out.

 insaniak wrote:


I'm not sure what 'spiel' of GW's you're referring to, though. I don't recall ever seeing anything from them about mould degradation. The moulds that were broken were supposedly dropped, not worn out.

I saw an article about it at least a year or so ago - so I may not be remembering correctly - and it was a third party not GW, but as I recall the "wearing out" was more to do with metals than plastics but the cost to switch from metals to plastics made it difficult to justify plasticizing some of the metal minis that didn't sell enough i.e. unpopular HQ choices etc.