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Thing is GW very rarely says no. They are open to bringing squats back and have been for years. They just never had the design slots, the designers and inspiration etc.... to bring it all together and do.

So they'll never say "we won't do squats" they just wont' do them. It's the same for things like Exodites - they haven't removed them they've just not done them.









And yes I hate it too I wish they'd say "we won't do exodites or if we do its in 10 years before we'll ever get time to think of it. So just go convert them if you want them". or "Yes we are doing them, they are 9 years off at best" etc..

 Overread wrote:
Thing is GW very rarely says no. They are open to bringing squats back and have been for years. They just never had the design slots, the designers and inspiration etc.... to bring it all together and do.

So they'll never say "we won't do squats" they just wont' do them. It's the same for things like Exodites - they haven't removed them they've just not done them.


And yes I hate it too I wish they'd say "we won't do exodites or if we do its in 10 years before we'll ever get time to think of it. So just go convert them if you want them". or "Yes we are doing them, they are 9 years off at best" etc..

My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

Aye but Renegades and Heritics are FW not GW and FW has always been VERY spotty even before more recent times and their even more spotty position where its clear that even FW and GW aren't quite sure what they are doing with FW.

There's a mess of shifting pressure on production (specialist games taking off) coupled to lack of marketing on FW products (which likel accounts for lower than optimum sales on items which might be why so many AoS models were withdrawn this last winter); lack of proper support (compounded by FW being outside of main GW - they didn't even know AoS was going to happen) etc...

Heck at one stage they were making an AoS team which made a handful of stormcast heads and then disbanded.


FW needs a clearer position and a long term plan so that they can be a bit more consistent.

The rules are done by GW nowadays, since quite some time, GW failing at providing a decent job, or actually delievering quality work, is an issue.
That and the fact that they just flat out don't offer some form off assurance.

Tycho wrote:

You can't compare the release model of 10-20+ years ago with the release model today. None of the factions since 7th have been the way you described. Custodes, GSC, Admech, Harlequins, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, etc have all been drip fed over time.

EXCEPT Primaris. Who have had an unprecedented and constant release stream. I still don't get how so many people refuse to see that? You don't even have to agree that it's bad, but it is a fact ...

Because its inaccurate to say so. The release history of AdMech starting in 7th edition sees basically the same pattern of release that Primaris have received. Starting with the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii codex, which were later merged with the addition of some new units, followed by an additional character, then the new tank/transport, and then the flyer wave, cavalry and flying dudes. If you include Knights under their umbrella, its even more pronounced.

Saying that Primaris have an "unprecedented and constant release stream" is simply inaccurate. They've had basically 3 waves of releases - their initial wave, the Vanguard wave, and now the Indomitus/9e wave. They, like most factions, also got a couple of one-off releases in the middle (like the Repulsor Executioner or whatever its called). Ad Mech has basically had the same treatment, with the recent release basically being their third wave. Likewise Genestealer Cults have had two waves of releases so far. Sisters have had one with a second wave being hinted at. Custodes have had two waves so far. etc.

Admittedly, as I said before, I think I'm in the "Loud Minority" here as the Primaris train has, up to this point lead to pretty impressive profits, but seriously, you can't tell me the release schedule is "ok" when you see the Primaris releases from the start of 8th to now

I absolutely 100% think its okay. Their first wave release at the start of 8th introduced them as a barely functioning army with a huge number of critical gaps in what tools they had available to them. Their second wave (the Vanguard release) as well as the filler releases didn't really help them all that much in that regard, though it provided a couple additional tools they were in need of.This next wave basically takes them to "fully functioning" status - though it has a few unit redundancies that don't really address any needs, it for the most part basically takes them to a point where their arsenal can be compared relatively well to Firstborn.

And guess what - there will probably be ANOTHER release after that, and I'm okay with it - because Primaris still don't have Flyers of their own, likewise I imagine that Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs are going to be a thing that happens, and I'm sure theres going to be bike and jump pack character variants on the way.

FW needs a clearer position and a long term plan so that they can be a bit more consistent.

From what I understand FW is basically being/has been transitioned into the Specialist Games design studio and they are getting out of direct support for 40k. Pretty sure this has already been essentially stated and confirmed by GW themselves somewhere, though maybe not. As I understand it, rules responsibilities for forgeworlds 40k catalog is being handed off to the main 40k studio in full. There may be future "Forgeworld" 40k models/rules releases but these will be done by the main 40k team rather than by a separate forgeworld team. IIRC I think it was suggested somewhere that the upcoming 9e Forgeworld rules update may be "it" for quite some time though, as I think the goal is to support 40k fully in plastic.

 Overread wrote:
Aye but Renegades and Heritics are FW not GW and FW has always been VERY spotty even before more recent times and their even more spotty position where its clear that even FW and GW aren't quite sure what they are doing with FW.

There's a mess of shifting pressure on production (specialist games taking off) coupled to lack of marketing on FW products (which likel accounts for lower than optimum sales on items which might be why so many AoS models were withdrawn this last winter); lack of proper support (compounded by FW being outside of main GW - they didn't even know AoS was going to happen) etc...

Heck at one stage they were making an AoS team which made a handful of stormcast heads and then disbanded.


FW needs a clearer position and a long term plan so that they can be a bit more consistent.

Gw has been doing all the rules for fw units for some time (they started doing all the "balancing", if you can call it that, in CA2018), and it was their decision to not include R&H in the Imperial Armour Compendium. R&H players spent our hard earned money and time on our armies and we deserve to know what they intend to do with the army. Either they should tell us: A; They plan to release a codex for R&H, or something similar (Traitor Guard, etc) or B; They have no further plans for the army, but here's some Legends rules so you can play them in casual games. So far we've gotten zilch, nada, bubkis, nothing.

well, I decided to jump back into my favorite GW hate forums and I was not disappointed!

There are a lot of criticisms of their release schedule I see as valid. It would be nice for them to tease a few things if its only a single line or something. Like "Aeldari and Drukhari are coming in 2021!"

But then I think about this forum and the inverse. What if a problem happens and they can't release on time? What happens if they spoil their potential release schedule and it doesn't include what some think it should? There are a million problems that can come from this, despite it being well-intentioned.

I don't think it makes sense for them to put anything out there before they can lock it down.I do wish that GW would open up their vaults a bit and let people know what the overarching release plan is for the main factions, but even in doing that, it's just going to piss people off more.

It's a lose/lose for them. there is no impetus to do so. Part of that is they don't want the sandbagging of potential sales to occur, the other is that we as a community, suck and are awful.

I don't have any sales data to work from, but I doubt it'd hurt GW that much to have a very rough roadmap outlined - not to the level of individual kits, but being able to say which Codex/faction would see significant releases in a given quarter, with a big "SUBJECT TO CHANGE" at the top and bottom of the graphic.

We know DA are getting a supplement in Q1, for example, along with the first "Xenos" Codex. Expand that a bit so we have a rough outline, even if things may shift around due to production issues. Even if it only expands the "what we know" window from 3 months to 6 months (though I'd prefer 12), it'd be an improvement.

I'm not sure how I'd want new factions or editions treated in such a roadmap, though. And, yes, I'd prefer to see this for all the games, not just 40k. Ideally with monthly updates.

I agree and I think we are starting to see that. Necromunda has a 1 year roadmap already, though that experiment got shot somewhat by Corona appearing and messing things up. Right now I'd wager is not the time to demand roadmaps from GW or any firm really for the future. There's so much up in the air.

Lockdowns can still happen and GW could get shut down for another month or more yet again. Even after a lockdown its not a simple as just turning the machines on, remember last time it took GW a few weeks to get back into the swing and even now they can't maintain stocks. Plus there are big releases that can't be easily shifted around - like Indomitus.

This thought leads to heresy.

Is like when the god-emperor of mankind retired to holy earth for the preparation of the web way portal and didn't inform his son's primarchs about what he was doing. Then some of his sons get paranoid and desperate and they were preyed by the ruinous powers.

But on the other hand, the god-emperor couldn't inform his sons about the dangers of the inmaterium because he wanted to protect them.

I guess that GW has his own internal demons that need to deal with it. I guess that the size of the market of GW is much bigger and therefore predicts what will happen is much more difficult because everything has more variables that could go wrong.

 Dysartes wrote:
I don't have any sales data to work from, but I doubt it'd hurt GW that much to have a very rough roadmap outlined - not to the level of individual kits, but being able to say which Codex/faction would see significant releases in a given quarter, with a big "SUBJECT TO CHANGE" at the top and bottom of the graphic.

We know DA are getting a supplement in Q1, for example, along with the first "Xenos" Codex. Expand that a bit so we have a rough outline, even if things may shift around due to production issues. Even if it only expands the "what we know" window from 3 months to 6 months (though I'd prefer 12), it'd be an improvement.

I'm not sure how I'd want new factions or editions treated in such a roadmap, though. And, yes, I'd prefer to see this for all the games, not just 40k. Ideally with monthly updates.

I 100% agree that this would be great for the customer, but as you say, I don't think it helps GW make sales. And as has been pointed out, GW will be LIT UP if they deviate from their plans. I remember 10 years ago there was a rumor about a "Summer of Flyers," and people were mad that GW didn't release any flyers. Because of a rumor!

Because... ehre's the problem. Everybody talks about how it will be good for morale to hear about what's being released. Well, if you play IG, any Eldar, Tau, or Grey Knights, if you saw the three year plan for 8th into 9th, you'd be bummed. Guard got a few characters, Tau got Shadowsun in super late 8th, CWE got Howling Banshees and Jain Zarr, Harlies but DE and harlies got nothing beyond the webway portal. Even Orks got four different buggy kits for some reason, and nothing else. Grey Knights not only got nothing, but couldn't add Primaris. So you play Dark Eldar, and you see four primaris waves, Knights, Chaos Knights, Custodes, GSC, Big Death Guard Wave, CSM, Slaanesh Daeomons, and even the sprinklings for IG, CWE, and Tau.. and where is your morale? Do you shut down?

The other thing is... man, look at that list. Pirmaris is the 800 pound gorilla, but even the armies we casually claim got "nothing" mostly got something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seabass wrote:
It's a lose/lose for them. there is no impetus to do so. Part of that is they don't want the sandbagging of potential sales to occur, the other is that we as a community, suck and are awful.

If you asked me to interact with GW fans online for my job, I would refuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

Hmm, they stopped making models for my army, and didn't incldue rules or points for it in the new FW book. I wonder what their plan is...

I hate to break it to you, but I don't think they're coming back.

The good news is that OOP forgeworld sells for a pretty penny!

I've been playing 40K since 3rd edition and as much as I agree with you on being disappointed with GW, the real issue is us as gamers. I still play 40K but I have not played the new editions of the game with my buddies. We are still playing 6th edition and have a blast. The reason for this is we don't want to spend a lot of money on models. The vast majority of gamers do not do this and get suckered into purchasing all the new stuff and codexes. Enjoy what you have and forgo purchasing the new stuff. Don't fall into their trap. Maybe only then, will they see what they've done to disappoint the grower base.

 Dysartes wrote:
I don't have any sales data to work from, but I doubt it'd hurt GW that much to have a very rough roadmap outlined - not to the level of individual kits, but being able to say which Codex/faction would see significant releases in a given quarter, with a big "SUBJECT TO CHANGE" at the top and bottom of the graphic.

We know DA are getting a supplement in Q1, for example, along with the first "Xenos" Codex. Expand that a bit so we have a rough outline, even if things may shift around due to production issues. Even if it only expands the "what we know" window from 3 months to 6 months (though I'd prefer 12), it'd be an improvement.

I'm not sure how I'd want new factions or editions treated in such a roadmap, though. And, yes, I'd prefer to see this for all the games, not just 40k. Ideally with monthly updates.

Yeah, instead of just saying the first "Xenos" codex, they couldve said outright which codex. Theres no realease date announced anyway. They wouldnt lose anything if it was delayed, as long as it was really the next codex.

You see saying that they cant do a rough road map/ give people SOMETHING of an idea is not entirely accurate. If GW wants to try to build good will and give people something to look forward to they can.

I present to you the case of "warhammer the old world". Announced ridiculusly 3 years in advance ( unprecedented). Nobody knows anything about other than a few sketches, a map and a very very rough rekease time. Even some of the most die hard jaded WHFB fans and GW haters have raised an eyebrow.

We have the rumour engine thread which sort of does it but in a somewhat needlesly obscure and random way. But they could do a fluff piece article with some meat on the bones about lore (bit like how they covered the banshees through the ages article) and shiw some sketches and describe their plan like a roughly a year in advance. Dont have to say x will be released on January 2022 at 14:00...

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I don't have any sales data to work from, but I doubt it'd hurt GW that much to have a very rough roadmap outlined - not to the level of individual kits, but being able to say which Codex/faction would see significant releases in a given quarter, with a big "SUBJECT TO CHANGE" at the top and bottom of the graphic.

We know DA are getting a supplement in Q1, for example, along with the first "Xenos" Codex. Expand that a bit so we have a rough outline, even if things may shift around due to production issues. Even if it only expands the "what we know" window from 3 months to 6 months (though I'd prefer 12), it'd be an improvement.

I'm not sure how I'd want new factions or editions treated in such a roadmap, though. And, yes, I'd prefer to see this for all the games, not just 40k. Ideally with monthly updates.

Yeah, instead of just saying the first "Xenos" codex, they couldve said outright which codex. Theres no realease date announced anyway. They wouldnt lose anything if it was delayed, as long as it was really the next codex.

What will that get them other than hordes of players saying "I'm not buying models for this faction until I see the Codex and model releases"? I think wargaming is the one area where uncertainty is an advantage to the seller. The more certainty you have, the more likely you are to wait and see rather than move along and buy in blessed ignorance.

 alextroy wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

Saying this while using a Sister of Battle as your avatar is quite ironic.

 alextroy wrote:
What will that get them other than hordes of players saying "I'm not buying models for this faction until I see the Codex and model releases"? I think wargaming is the one area where uncertainty is an advantage to the seller. The more certainty you have, the more likely you are to wait and see rather than move along and buy in blessed ignorance.

People still aren't buying unsupported codexes's minis. At least now we would know what is down the line. I know its anecdotal but at my LGS, most people don't buy NIB eldars / nids / orks, they go for used or for other sources for models. If i knew that my codex was coming soon, i'd start saving hobby money for when it drops to buy the models that are new/instead. Which means that GW would get more of my money than they do right now.

hungryugolino wrote:

 Lorek wrote:

hungryugolino wrote:

Saying "it's a toy" doesn't change that the company is pushing some decidedly exploitative and customer-hostile policies in how it approaches those sales.

I'm still failing to see how GW is exploiting its customers. Can you support this at all? It's a hobby, and I understand being very invested in it (I definitely am), but I don't see how GW's release schedule is harmful.

Okay so.

Simply put, GW is making a conscious choice to chase Primaris purchases rather than give basic support for a large fraction of their range. This isn't simple faction favoritism as we've seen for most of 40k, it's the failure state of a company that has obligations to multiple parts of its fanbase.

They aren't just making Primaris more than they are other factions, they're explicitly avoiding making ANYTHING for other factions except where Primaris are involved. Primaris players are the only ones that are guaranteed to get annual updates and constant new releases- which is downright abusive to players of factions which literally are still using troop sets that haven't been modernized since before some of their players were born.

GW making the decision to dedicate all their development time and releases to Primaris means that because rules are also tied to new models, players of those other factions will have worse experiences. So you have a situation where the real playerbase is not only not receiving model support (and constant price hikes on their aging sets, as insult to injury) they've also been overshadowed by slower and worse rules releases to boot, simply by virtue of "new model kit means GW will give them suitably broken rules sometimes in pursuit of sales" (which we've had admissions GW has done more than once- I believe fliers were mentioned in an interview?)

It's a vicious cycle of other factions are neglected->GW tunnel visions on the Primaris->more drones buy into Primaris, rewarding GW's bad decision making -> other factions continue to be neglected...

Until we get 20 years without an update to the range's basic models and a Codex clogged with Primaris no one really asked for.

So basically, because of maladaptive GW decision making, we're in a situation where the entire rest of the hobby is worse off because of the existence of Primaris players pumping more money and reinforcing their current decision making where Primaris get constant releases and everyone else just kind of hopes they get dragged along as an excuse for GW to pretend other factions matter to them. This is toxic and GW needs to commit to a more sensible- and fair- release schedule, even just 1:1 for Primaris/a faction that needs it. No more Primaris waves unless they're accompanied by a full faction modernization.

Realistically,though, Primaris will continue to be a cancer of GW's own making, making that entire segment of the playerbase a threat to everyone else's hobby enjoyment just by existing and reinforcing their bad decision making through their mindless purchases.

It's more abusive to the primaris players honestly. When you are considering marketing and how companies manipulate customers into purchases, the rapid treadmill of marine releases is extremely difficult to keep up with without a lot of investment. It'd not just be better for players of other armies, it would be better for marine players to slow down releases. But GW knows, because they have manipulated customers into it, that most people have marines and constant releases of marines, ESPECIALLY using FOMO tricks, bundle discounts, and other marketing techniques, will get people to pay the most.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

Saying this while using a Sister of Battle as your avatar is quite ironic.

TBF banging any drum in regards to get an GW answer is , well, mostly getting you nothing, it however also is the hallmark of a company that has at best no care about the custommer base so long the money flows and at worst an active sort of contempt due to internal politicking and torwards their custommers.

A thought - you know those films that sometimes become a cult classic because they don't explain everything by the end? Same as a good many anime and other serial TV shows that have strong story elements that are left up in the air.

Ever notice how no matter how far along the world has gone, there's always a core of people talking about those stories. Theorising, swapping ideas, venting frustration at the lack of a sequel. How many will go red in the face if a sequel does come that doesn't explain things how one things they might go etc..





GW's marketing might be a little like that. You don't get all the picture so you make 6 page conversations talking about that; you make loads of guesses on what might come and what you hope comes and what could come and what you're sure is coming but isn't announced yet etc...
Loads of free community engagement and GW doesn't have to do a thing to keep it going.

I am a returning player and I feel like GW is asking me why dont i play marines? As some one who picked a niche in a chaos faction (slaanesh) I honestly have nothing to buy but things for fun. After about $200 dollars I will own everything my army needs till I get new or updated figures (I refuse to buy kits I made fun of in middle school, for looking dumb), and I do not want to start a new army, unless it soups well with what I have. Given that Chaos Knights and Slaanesh Demons do not soup at all.

So this is great news for my wallet

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

Saying this while using a Sister of Battle as your avatar is quite ironic.

Nothing ironic at all. I survived the decades of no models without haunting the forums moaning about my army in every thread like it would make GW do anything at all. What I did do was speak up load and clear when GW asked for feedback, because they could do something about it. My reward was an all new range of minis.

Hey all, if we could keep the tone down and refrain from personal attacks, it would be appreciated, I deleted some heated/off tropic posts and their responses, let's keep it on track, thanks!

 alextroy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

Saying this while using a Sister of Battle as your avatar is quite ironic.

Nothing ironic at all. I survived the decades of no models without haunting the forums moaning about my army in every thread like it would make GW do anything at all. What I did do was speak up load and clear when GW asked for feedback, because they could do something about it. My reward was an all new range of minis.

And you think we didn't do that?
And you think gw's model of just outright ignoring factions for a decade or two is acceptable service and should not be known,

 alextroy wrote:
What will that get them other than hordes of players saying "I'm not buying models for this faction until I see the Codex and model releases"? I think wargaming is the one area where uncertainty is an advantage to the seller. The more certainty you have, the more likely you are to wait and see rather than move along and buy in blessed ignorance.

Yes, I imagine this certainly is a reason. And you can probably see it happen right now. How many Xeno's players are not going to buy anything in the forseeable future because we now know that there will be nothing but Marines coming until January?

Knowing the upcoming releases has certainly squashed any desire I had to continue building my GSC/Nid force until a codex for them finally drops.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

 alextroy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:My issue is, that they virtually eliminated massive, allready existing factions that have done so for the majority of the games life. Especially as a R&H player, that doesn't know if you get an dex arround the corner or just get further ignored.
And yes as you said, their behaviour in that regards is annoying as hell.

The writing is on the wall here. They are providing zero support for R&H. It's a pretty forgone conclusion that your army is dead as far as they are concerned. It may come back in some form as Traitor Guard or Cultist of Chaos, but don't hold our breath. Either figure out a way to play using existing Codexes or just move on. Banging this drum is going to get you nothing.

Saying this while using a Sister of Battle as your avatar is quite ironic.

Nothing ironic at all. I survived the decades of no models without haunting the forums moaning about my army in every thread like it would make GW do anything at all. What I did do was speak up load and clear when GW asked for feedback, because they could do something about it. My reward was an all new range of minis.

And you think we didn't do that?
And you think gw's model of just outright ignoring factions for a decade or two is acceptable service and should not be known,

If you've let them know on the surveys, all you can do now is wait and see if you get something. It seems the second most complained about things on this forum lately after too many space marines is GW isn't supporting my Forge World army anymore. Everybody knows it. Everybody who cares noticed that Elysian and R&H are not in the MFM and that Corsairs have been reduced to 3 units. We felt your pain the first 5 times it came up. Now it's just annoying.

Anybody who's been with the GW hobby knows that GW puts out what GW puts out when GW puts it out. If you are the favored child (Space Marines or Stormcast Eternals) you get lots of releases. If you're not, you wait to be the latest flavor of the month. You may wait a year two between a few model releases, or you may be Dark Eldar or Sisters of Battle waiting for over a decade to get anything at all beyond rules. You may even be Squats, the namesake army for being dropped from the GW range. It is the way it is. You need to either accept it, work around it, or be unhappy. But please don't be annoying about your choice.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Aye but Renegades and Heritics are FW not GW and FW has always been VERY spotty even before more recent times and their even more spotty position where its clear that even FW and GW aren't quite sure what they are doing with FW.

There's a mess of shifting pressure on production (specialist games taking off) coupled to lack of marketing on FW products (which likel accounts for lower than optimum sales on items which might be why so many AoS models were withdrawn this last winter); lack of proper support (compounded by FW being outside of main GW - they didn't even know AoS was going to happen) etc...

Heck at one stage they were making an AoS team which made a handful of stormcast heads and then disbanded.


FW needs a clearer position and a long term plan so that they can be a bit more consistent.

Gw has been doing all the rules for fw units for some time (they started doing all the "balancing", if you can call it that, in CA2018), and it was their decision to not include R&H in the Imperial Armour Compendium. R&H players spent our hard earned money and time on our armies and we deserve to know what they intend to do with the army. Either they should tell us: A; They plan to release a codex for R&H, or something similar (Traitor Guard, etc) or B; They have no further plans for the army, but here's some Legends rules so you can play them in casual games. So far we've gotten zilch, nada, bubkis, nothing.

Sheesh, you'd think a wall of resounding silence would be your clue concerning their intent....

 grouchoben wrote:
Infinity is about to launch a new edition, N4, which is an eagerly awaited revision and polishing of a deep, complex and excellent ruleset. As part of this launch they've been releasing videos where they discuss the new edition, but also their release schedule, plans for new models, and long-term goals for faction revamps. While they're not completely open, they provide enough information for fans of a certain faction to have something to look forward to. So eg 'Shasvaasti', an awesome sneaky alien faction, have been getting a SHEDLOAD of new releases, almost unprecedented in Infinity's history, and this release might have a player of another faction, such as 'Corregidor', a bit miffed because their old models really really need an update. But wait! The company has told me that Corregidor will be getting a major overhaul in 2021, and shown a few images and profiles of a taste of their new stuff. I now, as a Corregidor player, can stomach the endless Shasvaasti love, safe in the knowledge that in 12-18 months time it will be my faction's time in the sun.

I'm glad the Corregidor's are getting their due. From your sister ship with the Bank, I gotta say they've got some sweet models that need an update. Hoping we bankers get some new stuff as well.

So a few things to keep in mind:
>Infinity cranks out maybe 30-35 new models a year. Games workshop cranks out... well, I don't know. More. A lot.
>Corvus Belli makes two games, three if you count the new board game.
>Infinity is a much smaller game- in terms of scale, at least- making it much less to balance (nearly every faction has the exact same weapons for the most part).
>Games Workshop's formula has been successful enough (See my analogy below). Part of that is hype from 'surprise' reveals. It works, for some reason.
>Warhammer 40k is not a balanced game, it never will be, and it never really has been. It's analog pay-to-win. You'll never convince me that this isn't by design.
>Dropping everything and impulsively buying a new 40k Army? It happens. A lot. GW knows this. That whole 'codex creep' and 'surprise reveal marketing' plays a huge role in that. For Infinity, I've never said "I can't afford a new Infinity army". - I own tons of models I never use in the actual game. It's not breaking my budget, nor is that bringing them tons of money- their profit plan seems to be 'slow and steady, consistent' where GW's seems to be "Spike, drop, surprise, spike, drop, surprise, Spike" across all their properties at different times.
>GW's planning phase for miniatures is done years in advance, according to Jess Goodwin. When it comes to 'release schedules' I think they already have most stuff ready, or at the 90% ready mark- and they're watching to see what's drawing the most attention or what gets the most hype when they allude to it or mention it.

Also, I'm just going to say it. I don't care who it pisses off.
>Adding lots of vehicles, aircraft, massive units, etc. to Warhammer 40k kinda screwed up any chance of it ever being a true balanced game. Most of what makes Infinity balanced out is that your focus is generally on synergizing a few similar units- rather than trying to mitigate some crazy insane death star. If 40k was more focused on smaller infantry-scale combat it'd probably be much more balanced.

GW will never change. WHy?

I once had a ladyfriend. Just a friend, not a lover. She had a boyfriend.

"All he wants to do when I invite him over is get some *sugar*", she says. "He never wants to do anything else."

I nodded, and then asked the question. "Well, when he does that, what do you do?"

She doesn't skip a beat. "Well, I give him some *sugar*, but afterward he just looks for an excuse to leave. He doesn't want anything else."

"Have you tried not giving him *sugar*?" I ask.

She looks at me, baffled, as if this thing I'd asked her was some obscure challenge that would require one to break the laws of physics.

"Well, no- because... he won't come over if I don't."

The poor dear couldn't understand that as long as she was giving what he wanted, and not withholding it from him- he had no reason to change his behavior patterns.

Look at the profitability of the third party companies to show there is a market GW ignores. All of the little companies, who with little to no marketing selling things that work with GW products. GW attacks this, but does not fill the niche that the 3rd party company fills.

A prime example would be female figures. Look at companies like Victoria Minitures, Raging Heroes, or others. Female Guard are really saught after but gw only provides them via limited releases.

This works for tons of other 3rd party companies, or every ork army.

So while Victoria Minitures may not sell as much as space marines, there is enough of a market to pay for a sculpt

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


So a few things to keep in mind:
>Infinity cranks out maybe 30-35 new models a year. Games workshop cranks out... well, I don't know. More. A lot.
>Corvus Belli makes two games, three if you count the new board game.
>Infinity is a much smaller game- in terms of scale, at least- making it much less to balance (nearly every faction has the exact same weapons for the most part).

Mmm, there's no reason to suspect thst Infinity's *marketing* wouldn't scale up to an operation like GW's.