Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm fairly sure that when my morkanaut fails to kill the last destroyer as it always does, a few of them are going to pop back up.

It won't be something you can rely on, but non-existent is hyperbole.

In that case they would be rolling RP in 8e as well. Except you don't need to roll 3 5+ for every recovery.

tneva82 wrote:
In that case they would be rolling RP in 8e as well. Except you don't need to roll 3 5+ for every recovery.

That's not what you said, you claimed the new RP does nothing for multi-wound models, which clearly is incorrect.

IMO it's a good thing that RP became better for single-wound models and worse for multi-wounds. It was just too swingy, 4-5 destroyers getting back up could be just as game deciding as failing those same rolls. I play against necrons rather commonly and more than a few games have been decided by a destroyer unit's RP rolls.
Now they can properly balance them around not reanimating, similar to how flash gits are balanced around not shooting twice. The chance to reanimate a single destroyer is still higher than rolling or , which happens often enough.

tneva82 wrote:
In that case they would be rolling RP in 8e as well. Except you don't need to roll 3 5+ for every recovery.

Actually no. As there would be the rest of the turn still left to destroy the stragglers in 8e. If they are still alive at end of turn then yes what you say is true.

Consider this. Lychguard have 2 wounds each. A unit of 10 has to have 20 damage done to them in a single ATTACK, because they roll RP after each attack.

So if you kill half the unit (a difficult thing to do) you are rolling 10 dice. Chances are at least 2 of the 5 lychguard are coming back. Every ATTACK gets a RP roll. While yeah, getting a unit back to full strength becomes harder, each additional model down is a much better chance to bring a model back.

 Lance845 wrote:
Consider this. Lychguard have 2 wounds each. A unit of 10 has to have 20 damage done to them in a single ATTACK, because they roll RP after each attack.

So if you kill half the unit (a difficult thing to do) you are rolling 10 dice. Chances are at least 2 of the 5 lychguard are coming back. Every ATTACK gets a RP roll. While yeah, getting a unit back to full strength becomes harder, each additional model down is a much better chance to bring a model back.

Yes, in 1 round of shooting. 2 of the 5 get up, the other 3 are permanently dead. You will not get back to full strength beyond rolling 10 5+ after the first attacks.

You seem to be trying to suggest that as each shot is an attack you get to roll per shot, which is incorrect here.

Dudeface wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Consider this. Lychguard have 2 wounds each. A unit of 10 has to have 20 damage done to them in a single ATTACK, because they roll RP after each attack.

So if you kill half the unit (a difficult thing to do) you are rolling 10 dice. Chances are at least 2 of the 5 lychguard are coming back. Every ATTACK gets a RP roll. While yeah, getting a unit back to full strength becomes harder, each additional model down is a much better chance to bring a model back.

Yes, in 1 round of shooting. 2 of the 5 get up, the other 3 are permanently dead. You will not get back to full strength beyond rolling 10 5+ after the first attacks.

You seem to be trying to suggest that as each shot is an attack you get to roll per shot, which is incorrect here.

Maybe I miss read it. But I did not read it as the other 3 are permanently dead. The next time the unit gets attacked (even in the same round) you roll every wound for each dead model. SO thats 6 dice + any new dead models.

I have a unit with 5 of the same gun. I declare that they are shooting all 5 guns into the lychguards. After that I roll RP. The opposing player picks another unit and shoots at the lychguard again. I roll RP again.

 Lance845 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Consider this. Lychguard have 2 wounds each. A unit of 10 has to have 20 damage done to them in a single ATTACK, because they roll RP after each attack.

So if you kill half the unit (a difficult thing to do) you are rolling 10 dice. Chances are at least 2 of the 5 lychguard are coming back. Every ATTACK gets a RP roll. While yeah, getting a unit back to full strength becomes harder, each additional model down is a much better chance to bring a model back.

Yes, in 1 round of shooting. 2 of the 5 get up, the other 3 are permanently dead. You will not get back to full strength beyond rolling 10 5+ after the first attacks.

You seem to be trying to suggest that as each shot is an attack you get to roll per shot, which is incorrect here.

Maybe I miss read it. But I did not read it as the other 3 are permanently dead. The next time the unit gets attacked (even in the same round) you roll every wound for each dead model. SO thats 6 dice + any new dead models.

I have a unit with 5 of the same gun. I declare that they are shooting all 5 guns into the lychguards. After that I roll RP. The opposing player picks another unit and shoots at the lychguard again. I roll RP again.

No. Read the first paragraph again. The rules refer to models that were killed as a result of a single unit's attacks. Once you fail an RP roll, that model is gone.

Its worth pointing out that a model that does reanimate after an attack sequence can keep getting back up. Outside of extreme anti infantry shooting from a single unit, I think you'll almost always get more than 4-5 guys back from a unit of 20 1W Warriors in a real game.

Consider that an MSU unit of Intercessors with Bolt Rifles and rerolls will kill about 3 of them a turn. If an opponent was just using those against your big squad you'd get 9 of them back (they kill 3, you get one back and have 18, next squad shoots and now you have 16 and have gotten 2 back, etc). If you gave them the +1 RP buff, you'd get most of them back in that situation.

On average, in order to only get 4 Warriors back, the unit shooting at them would have to be killing 12 at a time, and they'd have to have two of those units (Kill 12, 4 get back up and now there are 12 Warriors. Next attack sequence wipes them).

The point is, I think the rule is better than the reception its getting. Yes, crazy anti infantry stuff does exist and can wipe them out before you can use the special rule. How much of that will actually be used remains to be seen with hordes and other light troops so heavily discouraged.

 Slowroll wrote:
Its worth pointing out that a model that does reanimate after an attack sequence can keep getting back up. Outside of extreme anti infantry shooting from a single unit, I think you'll almost always get more than 4-5 guys back from a unit of 20 1W Warriors in a real game.

Consider that an MSU unit of Intercessors with Bolt Rifles and rerolls will kill about 3 of them a turn. If an opponent was just using those against your big squad you'd get 9 of them back (they kill 3, you get one back and have 18, next squad shoots and now you have 16 and have gotten 2 back, etc). If you gave them the +1 RP buff, you'd get most of them back in that situation.

On average, in order to only get 4 Warriors back, the unit shooting at them would have to be killing 12 at a time, and they'd have to have two of those units (Kill 12, 4 get back up and now there are 12 Warriors. Next attack sequence wipes them).

The point is, I think the rule is better than the reception its getting. Yes, crazy anti infantry stuff does exist and can wipe them out before you can use the special rule. How much of that will actually be used remains to be seen with hordes and other light troops so heavily discouraged.

People seem happy with it for the little guys, they're more annoyed their big expensive multi wound models may as well not have the rule in a lot of situations.

Games Workshop wouldnt' be buffing one of the strongest units in the game for no reason. Just wait and see, they have a plan.

Dudeface wrote:

 Slowroll wrote:
Its worth pointing out that a model that does reanimate after an attack sequence can keep getting back up. Outside of extreme anti infantry shooting from a single unit, I think you'll almost always get more than 4-5 guys back from a unit of 20 1W Warriors in a real game.

Consider that an MSU unit of Intercessors with Bolt Rifles and rerolls will kill about 3 of them a turn. If an opponent was just using those against your big squad you'd get 9 of them back (they kill 3, you get one back and have 18, next squad shoots and now you have 16 and have gotten 2 back, etc). If you gave them the +1 RP buff, you'd get most of them back in that situation.

On average, in order to only get 4 Warriors back, the unit shooting at them would have to be killing 12 at a time, and they'd have to have two of those units (Kill 12, 4 get back up and now there are 12 Warriors. Next attack sequence wipes them).

The point is, I think the rule is better than the reception its getting. Yes, crazy anti infantry stuff does exist and can wipe them out before you can use the special rule. How much of that will actually be used remains to be seen with hordes and other light troops so heavily discouraged.

People seem happy with it for the little guys, they're more annoyed their big expensive multi wound models may as well not have the rule in a lot of situations.

At least the Destroyers appear to be costed effectively to not rely on RP that much. 35 pts for the Skorpekh and for the Ophydians are pretty good.

Slipspace wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Consider this. Lychguard have 2 wounds each. A unit of 10 has to have 20 damage done to them in a single ATTACK, because they roll RP after each attack.

So if you kill half the unit (a difficult thing to do) you are rolling 10 dice. Chances are at least 2 of the 5 lychguard are coming back. Every ATTACK gets a RP roll. While yeah, getting a unit back to full strength becomes harder, each additional model down is a much better chance to bring a model back.

Yes, in 1 round of shooting. 2 of the 5 get up, the other 3 are permanently dead. You will not get back to full strength beyond rolling 10 5+ after the first attacks.

You seem to be trying to suggest that as each shot is an attack you get to roll per shot, which is incorrect here.

Maybe I miss read it. But I did not read it as the other 3 are permanently dead. The next time the unit gets attacked (even in the same round) you roll every wound for each dead model. SO thats 6 dice + any new dead models.

I have a unit with 5 of the same gun. I declare that they are shooting all 5 guns into the lychguards. After that I roll RP. The opposing player picks another unit and shoots at the lychguard again. I roll RP again.

No. Read the first paragraph again. The rules refer to models that were killed as a result of a single unit's attacks. Once you fail an RP roll, that model is gone.

Gone until one of the 3 or so other abilities in the Codex that returns models goes off, anyway.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Games Workshop wouldnt' be buffing one of the strongest units in the game for no reason. Just wait and see, they have a plan.

Oh, they've got a plan alright. A $p€cial P£an.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Games Workshop wouldnt' be buffing one of the strongest units in the game for no reason. Just wait and see, they have a plan.

Oh, they've got a plan alright. A $p€cial P£an.

You believe that GW pushes sales of a single kit - one that was available at a very discounted price in a boxed set before - at the cost of the sales for all remaining large monster and vehicle kits for all 40k factions? Nevermind that they will release several new vehicles between now and the next few weeks?

Seems right.

Didn't one dude that worked for GW studio as designer, tell a story of how the design head honchos made them test some new eldar units and the results were that they were very good at the point costs, but because Sales wanted to push the model hard, they cut the cost by 150pts creating some OP demon from hell?

As far as I remember it was like this:
- Somebody posted on Reddit that they were designing the rules for Eldar Wraithknights.
- Somewhen during the process a superior got shown the rules and was pleased with them.
- For the rules to be more balanced, the Wraithknight's costs needed to increase.
- The superior told the guy not to. Keep the new rules, but leave the old/initial price

In my opinion it would be dishonest not to mention three things:
- The supposed rules designer never got verified in some sorts. It could have been somebody making up a story.
- This is the only "known" instance where it happened.
- It happened years ago (6th or 7th edition IIRC) under a different CEO. Mister Kirby, who was about to crash the company as much as he could.

Karol wrote:
Didn't one dude that worked for GW studio as designer, tell a story of how the design head honchos made them test some new eldar units and the results were that they were very good at the point costs, but because Sales wanted to push the model hard, they cut the cost by 150pts creating some OP demon from hell?

this was the 150 dollar wraith knight kit Karol. in this case we're talking about kit that'll likely go for 60 dollars making people less inclined to use the 100 dollar tank kits they make, including the new ones they'll be releasing in a few weeks

But quantity turns in to quality after some time. the 100$ kits may drop in sales, but if every marine player buys 2-3 boxs of erdictors, or even more considering they are 6 models per unit, the sells over all would go up.

Now if erdictors were an eldar unit and would make their sm, and as a bonus other factions, sells go drasticly down, they would probably try to rethink it. But to be honest the meanders of GW group thoughts escape the little comprehansion skills I have.


Ah and they could make it for some time only. Lets say the erdictors become the new castellan, no reason for them not to be. GW mass sells them till next spring, then spring FAQ tries to fix them, but doesn't being a free update, but the CA in winter 2021 does nerf them a bit. Just in time for GW to intreduce something new to the game.