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Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.

I think aggressors on their own is a better unit than Repentias but dont make everything else look worse than they are just to gak on marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 20:15:51


 
   
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Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.


You can do both. A charge roll is 2 dice in one individual dice roll so you can change both of them. Takes 2 dice though since you want to replace both.

You can even get +1 to advance and charge for the repentia and if you have Triumf close you could even get away with a 4 to get a 6" advance. So a 25" threat range with a 4, a 5 and a 6 saved.
   
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Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.

I think aggressors on their own is a better unit than Repentias but dont make everything else look worse than they are just to gak on marines.


couple things. First off, I have openly admitted several times I am no expert in SoB. if they have that rule that allows them to advance and charge I don't know where to find it because I am relying on Battlescribe. Secondly, your scenario requires a host of other things to happen before that threat range is possible. How do they get miracle dice? Do they start the game with them? if not than a 25' threat range is useless because Turn 2+ charges aren't as hard to get as Turn 1, and that threat range becomes significantly less important.

I am not downplaying SoB units, I am pointing out that in comparison to a Marine unit which several players have openly said is "Trash" or "bad", they aren't as good.

 Tomsug wrote:
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SemperMortis wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.

I think aggressors on their own is a better unit than Repentias but dont make everything else look worse than they are just to gak on marines.


couple things. First off, I have openly admitted several times I am no expert in SoB. if they have that rule that allows them to advance and charge I don't know where to find it because I am relying on Battlescribe. Secondly, your scenario requires a host of other things to happen before that threat range is possible. How do they get miracle dice? Do they start the game with them? if not than a 25' threat range is useless because Turn 2+ charges aren't as hard to get as Turn 1, and that threat range becomes significantly less important.

I am not downplaying SoB units, I am pointing out that in comparison to a Marine unit which several players have openly said is "Trash" or "bad", they aren't as good.


Also.. how do you know you have not used the miracle dice of a 6 on a damage roll int he shooting phase..?

I mean I get it. Marines were nerfed so bad they clearly need buffs now. AmIright ?

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


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I am not saying Aggressors are bad but only refuting the argument that Repentias are slow and thus wont survive until combat. There is some preparation involved but if you use Repentias you have probably planned for it and then they are very fast. If you knew you need a 6 for the charge and uses it in shooting you are an idiot. "But what if he didnt move in the movement phase and cant reach in the charge phase? You see shooting is much better than melee!!!"

Its like saying that pre 9th BA index Death Company with JP were barely faster than White scars aggressors who can advance and charge. Without stratagems sure but everyone who knows BA knows they had 3 stratagems that all but guaranted turn 1 charges for up to 2 units. Forlorn Fury gave a 13-19" pre game move and uwof+doa gave a 3d6+1 charge from reserves turn 1. Ofc, a BA player need to know he has those stratagems, cp to use it and remember to put the units on the table and not reserves. But can we expect an average player to know such secret combos or are they just for the WAAC types? So the truth is perhaps closer to that they are only 1" faster than WS aggressors and we should do all comparisons with that "fact" in mind.

If you compare units you shouldnt use only the stats on their datasheets if the faction have some key combos that increase their effectiveness by massive amounts. Like you wouldnt have obliterators in a comparison and ignore the strats that more than double their output. Smaller increases like doctrines that give 1ap or reroll ones that wont always be there can safely be ignored most of the time since most lists will have some of that anyway, even if not marines.

But you cant just hand wave away DOUBLING the average threat distance while also making it more reliable and boil it down to 1" extra movement just to suit your narrative. If its at that level then why even discuss it at all?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/14 06:48:12


 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:

If you consider them durable It's likely do the the fact you are shooting them with AP-0. I'd recommend removing every weapon with AP-0 from your list that you aren't required to take. These weapons are garbage. Oh BTW. Look what aggressors have!


Not everyone can have AP-1 (let alone AP-2) on basic weapons. 3 out of 4 armies I played in 8th-9th didn't have them. Orks have very few weapons with AP-1 in the entire roster while AP-2 is reserved for anti tank weapons like rokkits and only flash gitz, which now cost a fortune, have high AP and high rate of fire. I can't upgrade sluggas, choppas or shootas with better weapons.

I know, a joke compared to SM which can have AP-2 on troops but that's what we've got. Drukhari infantries and venoms basically have poisoned AP0 weapons. Adepta Sororitas don't get primaris bolters or doctrines, they have access to AP-1 or better but not for cheap.

I'd recommend evaluating every unit without considering SM primaris as possible opponents.

 
   
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 Blackie wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

If you consider them durable It's likely do the the fact you are shooting them with AP-0. I'd recommend removing every weapon with AP-0 from your list that you aren't required to take. These weapons are garbage. Oh BTW. Look what aggressors have!


Not everyone can have AP-1 (let alone AP-2) on basic weapons. 3 out of 4 armies I played in 8th-9th didn't have them. Orks have very few weapons with AP-1 in the entire roster while AP-2 is reserved for anti tank weapons like rokkits and only flash gitz, which now cost a fortune, have high AP and high rate of fire. I can't upgrade sluggas, choppas or shootas with better weapons.

I know, a joke compared to SM which can have AP-2 on troops but that's what we've got. Drukhari infantries and venoms basically have poisoned AP0 weapons. Adepta Sororitas don't get primaris bolters or doctrines, they have access to AP-1 or better but not for cheap.

I'd recommend evaluating every unit without considering SM primaris as possible opponents.


Seconded, the most common weapons Chaos has are also AP0. Standard rifles with AP -1 are something that only marines seem to have as of yet.

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I don't see how this discussion is even going on.

Aggressors are perfectly fine at the moment.
Neither OP, nor trash.

If you have a carnal need to bash on OP units, then I suggest that you join one of 27 other threads about eradicators.
   
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Klickor wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.


You can do both. A charge roll is 2 dice in one individual dice roll so you can change both of them. Takes 2 dice though since you want to replace both.

You can even get +1 to advance and charge for the repentia and if you have Triumf close you could even get away with a 4 to get a 6" advance. So a 25" threat range with a 4, a 5 and a 6 saved.


Where is the +1 to Advance and Charge rules in the Repentia rules?
Where is the special rules that allow a repentia to Advance AND Charge?

IF you have a Repentia Superior (Additional Character) you can re-roll advance and charge rolls. (what Black Templars get as part of their generic Chapter tactic)

Where are you getting this information?

I can't recall the time I had 3 MDs 6 at any one time??

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+1 to Advance and +1 to Charge is granted by the Hand of the Emperor Sacred Rite, it works for any unit that can benefit from a Sacred Rite.

Advance and charge for one unit of Repentia is possible by using the 1CP Holy Rage stratagem.

 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
The Newman wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It was in the last Codex. The MM didn't go anywhere.


I invite you to go look at the 2.0 codex, the Multimelta is not on the Dreadnought Weapon list. Legends, sure, but not in the Codex.


I'm looking at it now, the multi melta is indeed on the dreadnought heavy weapons list for codex space marines 8.5


I'm going to have to put my hands up and plead encroaching senility on this one. I read through that list three times and didn't see it.

   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
Klickor wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.


You can do both. A charge roll is 2 dice in one individual dice roll so you can change both of them. Takes 2 dice though since you want to replace both.

You can even get +1 to advance and charge for the repentia and if you have Triumf close you could even get away with a 4 to get a 6" advance. So a 25" threat range with a 4, a 5 and a 6 saved.


Where is the +1 to Advance and Charge rules in the Repentia rules?
Where is the special rules that allow a repentia to Advance AND Charge?

IF you have a Repentia Superior (Additional Character) you can re-roll advance and charge rolls. (what Black Templars get as part of their generic Chapter tactic)

Where are you getting this information?

I can't recall the time I had 3 MDs 6 at any one time??


Most units uses rules not on their datasheet. There is a reason Repentias are a good unit. The ability to advance and charge from a strat is one of them. Getting bonus to advance and charge is another(its one of their "canticle" bonuses if I remember right)

It is not that you always can or need to charge the max distance. They are faster than they look and miracle dice make them very reliable. If you have a 2 4s and a 5 you KNOW you can move 6", advance 5" and then charge 10" with 0 risk of failing. That is a guaranteed 22" threat without even having a 6 available. Even with factions that have advance and charge with rerolls available you will fail from time to time even when doing short charges. Knowing what will happen in a dice game is super powerful. Even with just having 2s or 3s available you can play around knowing you wont roll that snake eyes and miss that 3" charge and lose the game.

Repentias are super fast and very reliable. Cant believe people try to refute that. Very different from aggressors. They arent a good comparison to aggressors at all. Might as well compare heavy weapons teams or nurglings.

   
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 Blackie wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

If you consider them durable It's likely do the the fact you are shooting them with AP-0. I'd recommend removing every weapon with AP-0 from your list that you aren't required to take. These weapons are garbage. Oh BTW. Look what aggressors have!


Not everyone can have AP-1 (let alone AP-2) on basic weapons. 3 out of 4 armies I played in 8th-9th didn't have them. Orks have very few weapons with AP-1 in the entire roster while AP-2 is reserved for anti tank weapons like rokkits and only flash gitz, which now cost a fortune, have high AP and high rate of fire. I can't upgrade sluggas, choppas or shootas with better weapons.

I know, a joke compared to SM which can have AP-2 on troops but that's what we've got. Drukhari infantries and venoms basically have poisoned AP0 weapons. Adepta Sororitas don't get primaris bolters or doctrines, they have access to AP-1 or better but not for cheap.

I'd recommend evaluating every unit without considering SM primaris as possible opponents.
Orks and DE can take lots of AP -4 though. Nothing forces you to take beyond 1-3 troop squads. I mean I agree with you on this. You should build your list like you are going to be play against space marines. It's why I don't even consider Tesla in my Necron lists ATM. It would be great vs daemons or imperial gaurd but since there is a good chance I play marines any given game - it wont do anything to them - better to take gauss all around. Better to take ap-4 laser cannons.

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Klickor wrote:


Most units uses rules not on their datasheet. There is a reason Repentias are a good unit. The ability to advance and charge from a strat is one of them. Getting bonus to advance and charge is another(its one of their "canticle" bonuses if I remember right)

It is not that you always can or need to charge the max distance. They are faster than they look and miracle dice make them very reliable. If you have a 2 4s and a 5 you KNOW you can move 6", advance 5" and then charge 10" with 0 risk of failing. That is a guaranteed 22" threat without even having a 6 available. Even with factions that have advance and charge with rerolls available you will fail from time to time even when doing short charges. Knowing what will happen in a dice game is super powerful. Even with just having 2s or 3s available you can play around knowing you wont roll that snake eyes and miss that 3" charge and lose the game.

Repentias are super fast and very reliable. Cant believe people try to refute that. Very different from aggressors. They arent a good comparison to aggressors at all. Might as well compare heavy weapons teams or nurglings.



And ork shoota boyz kill 5-6 of them in overwatch. Against literally any unit that has high ROF they can't charge because its worth over watching them thanks to T3 and 5+ FNP. Against any unit or army that has "Fight first" rules, they are effectively useless. Regardless, we were talking about units on their own and comparing them, when you want to start adding in buffs, stratagems, "Miracle" dice etc, the same can be done to the aggressors unit. You can add in the CM and LT to dramatically increase their dmg output, you can add in the Apothecary to give them the FNP and bringing back a dead model. You can throw in faction bonuses and doctrines which make them -1 AP and have extra hits on 6s etc. And as far as threat range, in 9th edition where the brawl is happening in the no mans land between the two armies fighting for capture points, well, a massive threat range is worth a lot less than it once was, even with the nerf to overwatch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Orks and DE can take lots of AP -4 though. Nothing forces you to take beyond 1-3 troop squads. I mean I agree with you on this. You should build your list like you are going to be play against space marines. It's why I don't even consider Tesla in my Necron lists ATM. It would be great vs daemons or imperial gaurd but since there is a good chance I play marines any given game - it wont do anything to them - better to take gauss all around. Better to take ap-4 laser cannons.


Orkz can not take a lot of AP -4 unless you are talking about Close Combat and then its Killsaws. We have Snasha Gunz for AP-4....that is about it. The SAG is effectively dead thanks to a massive nerf (73% increase in price).

So at most you are talking about 18 Mek Gunz equipped with Smasha's sitting back field for 720pts. If you face an Ork list with 18 Mek gunz, they are either great kitbashers or filthy rich, thats $900 worth of models And you will likely win the game since they aren't ob sec and they move 3' a turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 14:06:37


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.

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Did someone really bring up Overwatch as a problem for Repentia? LOL Overwatch wasn't a problem to begin with and it's even less of a problem now!

CaptainStabby wrote:
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 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You never know when that leman russ will punch you back

 
   
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 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

Mega nobs though?

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Aggressors are still amazing with Salamanders. The removal of shoot twice was required. Especially considering every chapter now has access to a strat that makes units count as standing still. But I guess some people think a 6 man 240pt unit getting 144 shots is fair and balanced lol.
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

Mega nobs though?


Marine Players: We don't have enough numbers to hold objectives with our 20pt T4 2 wound 3+ save troops.

Also Marine Players: You have meganobz to hold objectives you're fine.


Two of the 3 units/gear you mentioned are long range artillery or are MASSIVELY overpriced. A SAG Big Mek is 120pts for D6 shots at BS5+ 2D6 strength. Averages 1 hit per turn at S7 -4AP D6 dmg. Would you pay 120pts for that? No, no you wouldn't.

The other is Smasha Gunz which are great.

Finally, Killsaws.... So either kill all SM's with my $900 of Smasha gunz, or kill them with a massively over priced SAG, and finish off whats left with our killsaws....sure.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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Yeah, eradicators as they are wouldn't be a problem at all if they were 50$ each model like smasha gunz.

Because you know, even if they are massively overpowered, there would be very low chances to see even a single 3man squad for that price. Smasha gunz are extremely good, but it's unlikely to see even a few of them on the table, let alone a list with tons of them: theoryhammer not always matches real life.

 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

Mega nobs though?


Meganobz are great, but not a "im going to make them the core of my army" great

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
You never know when that leman russ will punch you back

 
   
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Klickor wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Klickor wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.


You can do both. A charge roll is 2 dice in one individual dice roll so you can change both of them. Takes 2 dice though since you want to replace both.

You can even get +1 to advance and charge for the repentia and if you have Triumf close you could even get away with a 4 to get a 6" advance. So a 25" threat range with a 4, a 5 and a 6 saved.


Where is the +1 to Advance and Charge rules in the Repentia rules?
Where is the special rules that allow a repentia to Advance AND Charge?

IF you have a Repentia Superior (Additional Character) you can re-roll advance and charge rolls. (what Black Templars get as part of their generic Chapter tactic)

Where are you getting this information?

I can't recall the time I had 3 MDs 6 at any one time??


Most units uses rules not on their datasheet. There is a reason Repentias are a good unit. The ability to advance and charge from a strat is one of them. Getting bonus to advance and charge is another(its one of their "canticle" bonuses if I remember right)

It is not that you always can or need to charge the max distance. They are faster than they look and miracle dice make them very reliable. If you have a 2 4s and a 5 you KNOW you can move 6", advance 5" and then charge 10" with 0 risk of failing. That is a guaranteed 22" threat without even having a 6 available. Even with factions that have advance and charge with rerolls available you will fail from time to time even when doing short charges. Knowing what will happen in a dice game is super powerful. Even with just having 2s or 3s available you can play around knowing you wont roll that snake eyes and miss that 3" charge and lose the game.

Repentias are super fast and very reliable. Cant believe people try to refute that. Very different from aggressors. They arent a good comparison to aggressors at all. Might as well compare heavy weapons teams or nurglings.


Ahh we are adding strats in as well now - yes there is a strat that allows Repentia to Advance and Charge - are they any Marine 1CP strats that could boost Agressors? Ah yes - Death to the Traitors - re-roll all hits in melee.

The Sacred Rite does give +1 to Assault and Charge.

So we we need to add in that Assault Doctorine to make the fists - 4AP alongside the shooting bonues from previous turns.

On the other hand each repentia only gets 2 S6 AP-3 D2 attacks as compared to the dedicated shooting Agreessors where each unit gets 4 S8 AP-3 D2 attacks

C'mon Agressors are a great unit for shooting and no slouch in melee - Repentia are pretty damn good in Combat and IF you have rolled the right Miracle dice likely to get into comabt when you want to. On ther other hand Repentia don't have guns.

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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

Mega nobs though?


Meganobz are great, but not a "im going to make them the core of my army" great

That is what my ork buddy does and to some extent I see competitive lists do it with 3 man units.


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SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Billagio wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
They have smasha/SAG/kill saws. Thats about all you need.


If you never plan on taking objectives, sure

Mega nobs though?


Marine Players: We don't have enough numbers to hold objectives with our 20pt T4 2 wound 3+ save troops.

Also Marine Players: You have meganobz to hold objectives you're fine.


Two of the 3 units/gear you mentioned are long range artillery or are MASSIVELY overpriced. A SAG Big Mek is 120pts for D6 shots at BS5+ 2D6 strength. Averages 1 hit per turn at S7 -4AP D6 dmg. Would you pay 120pts for that? No, no you wouldn't.

The other is Smasha Gunz which are great.

Finally, Killsaws.... So either kill all SM's with my $900 of Smasha gunz, or kill them with a massively over priced SAG, and finish off whats left with our killsaws....sure.

I mean...you have other strong weapons too. Those are just the AP -4 ones. Pretty sure the wombast cannon on the flyer is ap-4 too but it might be AP -3. Then you've got the chinork with 2+ to hit squig bombs...those are ap-3 or 4. You've got the buggies with the zap guns at AP-3 and the dragster. Those all have really good weapons for killing marines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 16:49:13


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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 Xenomancers wrote:

I mean...you have other strong weapons too. Those are just the AP -4 ones. Pretty sure the wombast cannon on the flyer is ap-4 too but it might be AP -3. Then you've got the chinork with 2+ to hit squig bombs...those are ap-3 or 4. You've got the buggies with the zap guns at AP-3 and the dragster. Those all have really good weapons for killing marines.


Correct me if I guess wrong, but I think you are talking about the Wazbom Mega Kannon which is basically just a worse version of the KMK. D3 S8 -3 D6D, hit rolls of 1 cause 1 Mortal wound to itself

Averages .77 hits a turn, against Gravis its 0.51 wounds and -3 its 0.43 chance to go through armor and do 3.5 dmg. So its got less than a 50% chance to kill 1 gravis model a turn.

The Chinork is a FW model, it doesn't have "Squig Bombs", it has LEGENDS access to big bombs. So literally no idea what you are talking about here.

Buggies don't have Zzap gunz, The KBB has a Rivet Kannon which averages 1 dead Marine a turn (non gravis). The Scrapjet kills about 1.5 Marines a turn (non gravis). The RTSB averages 1 Dead marine a turn (non Gravis), the SJD averages 1 dead Marine a turn (non gravis)

So all those buggies are 90-110pts and kill about 1 Marine a turn. Not exactly slaying bodies my friend.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/14 17:41:42


 Tomsug wrote:
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 Mr Morden wrote:
Klickor wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Klickor wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Klickor wrote:
Repentia having only 1" more move compared to aggressors isnt really telling the whole story. You make them sound very slow when in fact they are one of the reliably fastest units in the game. I believe they can advance and charge and in combination with miracle dice you can get an automatic 3 sixes on those 3 dice. Thats a 25" threat range. Not adding in the 3" disembark from the rhino.

Thats twice what you usually see aggressors have and even if white scars with buffs they are still half a feet slower.
You can, if you have two sixes saved, get sixes on the advance and ONE charge die.
Not both.


You can do both. A charge roll is 2 dice in one individual dice roll so you can change both of them. Takes 2 dice though since you want to replace both.

You can even get +1 to advance and charge for the repentia and if you have Triumf close you could even get away with a 4 to get a 6" advance. So a 25" threat range with a 4, a 5 and a 6 saved.


Where is the +1 to Advance and Charge rules in the Repentia rules?
Where is the special rules that allow a repentia to Advance AND Charge?

IF you have a Repentia Superior (Additional Character) you can re-roll advance and charge rolls. (what Black Templars get as part of their generic Chapter tactic)

Where are you getting this information?

I can't recall the time I had 3 MDs 6 at any one time??


Most units uses rules not on their datasheet. There is a reason Repentias are a good unit. The ability to advance and charge from a strat is one of them. Getting bonus to advance and charge is another(its one of their "canticle" bonuses if I remember right)

It is not that you always can or need to charge the max distance. They are faster than they look and miracle dice make them very reliable. If you have a 2 4s and a 5 you KNOW you can move 6", advance 5" and then charge 10" with 0 risk of failing. That is a guaranteed 22" threat without even having a 6 available. Even with factions that have advance and charge with rerolls available you will fail from time to time even when doing short charges. Knowing what will happen in a dice game is super powerful. Even with just having 2s or 3s available you can play around knowing you wont roll that snake eyes and miss that 3" charge and lose the game.

Repentias are super fast and very reliable. Cant believe people try to refute that. Very different from aggressors. They arent a good comparison to aggressors at all. Might as well compare heavy weapons teams or nurglings.


Ahh we are adding strats in as well now - yes there is a strat that allows Repentia to Advance and Charge - are they any Marine 1CP strats that could boost Agressors? Ah yes - Death to the Traitors - re-roll all hits in melee.

The Sacred Rite does give +1 to Assault and Charge.

So we we need to add in that Assault Doctorine to make the fists - 4AP alongside the shooting bonues from previous turns.

On the other hand each repentia only gets 2 S6 AP-3 D2 attacks as compared to the dedicated shooting Agreessors where each unit gets 4 S8 AP-3 D2 attacks

C'mon Agressors are a great unit for shooting and no slouch in melee - Repentia are pretty damn good in Combat and IF you have rolled the right Miracle dice likely to get into comabt when you want to. On ther other hand Repentia don't have guns.


Ofc we have to add some strats and outside rules when discussing units. Especially for units like repentias that live or die by those outside rules. Miracle dice etc are quite crucial to that unit. You wouldnt ignore reanimation protocol for Necron units, order for AM or canticles for ad mech when discussing them. Or stratagems that are made for/intended for certain units.

Aggressors are definetly a better unit in isolation than for example Repentias. It is quite obvious and even pointless discussing further that point. And for the record I dont even think the 2 units can be compared in a useful manner at all. They are just too different and play nothing alike and Repentias dont even work on their own. Nothing wrong with Repentias for that. They obviously are not intended to be able to just march up the board without 0 support and consideration about synergies. Most marine units are, especially now that auras and strats were reigned in a lot.


   
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Klickor wrote:


Ofc we have to add some strats and outside rules when discussing units. Especially for units like repentias that live or die by those outside rules. Miracle dice etc are quite crucial to that unit. You wouldnt ignore reanimation protocol for Necron units, order for AM or canticles for ad mech when discussing them. Or stratagems that are made for/intended for certain units.

Aggressors are definetly a better unit in isolation than for example Repentias. It is quite obvious and even pointless discussing further that point. And for the record I dont even think the 2 units can be compared in a useful manner at all. They are just too different and play nothing alike and Repentias dont even work on their own. Nothing wrong with Repentias for that. They obviously are not intended to be able to just march up the board without 0 support and consideration about synergies. Most marine units are, especially now that auras and strats were reigned in a lot.


Than by that same metric, give those Aggressors similar buffs from outside units/traits/strats and watch the pendulum swing even further.

To make those Repentia worthy even taking you have to use all those buffs, Aggressors are already good enough on their own, when you increase their durability or dmg potential with outside sources it skews the results even further in their direction, and that is the point we are making. If you want to throw on CP to make repentia good, than do the same to aggressors and go ahead and compare again. I'll bet you dollars to donuts Repentia are not nearly as good, even fully buffed, as Aggressors fully buffed

 Tomsug wrote:
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SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

I mean...you have other strong weapons too. Those are just the AP -4 ones. Pretty sure the wombast cannon on the flyer is ap-4 too but it might be AP -3. Then you've got the chinork with 2+ to hit squig bombs...those are ap-3 or 4. You've got the buggies with the zap guns at AP-3 and the dragster. Those all have really good weapons for killing marines.


Correct me if I guess wrong, but I think you are talking about the Wazbom Mega Kannon which is basically just a worse version of the KMK. D3 S8 -3 D6D, hit rolls of 1 cause 1 Mortal wound to itself

Averages .77 hits a turn, against Gravis its 0.51 wounds and -3 its 0.43 chance to go through armor and do 3.5 dmg. So its got less than a 50% chance to kill 1 gravis model a turn.

The Chinork is a FW model, it doesn't have "Squig Bombs", it has LEGENDS access to big bombs. So literally no idea what you are talking about here.

Buggies don't have Zzap gunz, The KBB has a Rivet Kannon which averages 1 dead Marine a turn (non gravis). The Scrapjet kills about 1.5 Marines a turn (non gravis). The RTSB averages 1 Dead marine a turn (non Gravis), the SJD averages 1 dead Marine a turn (non gravis)

So all those buggies are 90-110pts and kill about 1 Marine a turn. Not exactly slaying bodies my friend.

Sorry I was wrong about the squig bomb - it comes from the tank bustas inside and it's not ap -3 its 2. It does d6 damage though. They hit on 2's.

Friend uses it - chinork with 10 tank bustas - it's pretty nasty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 18:30:59


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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