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Interestingly, I have seen different opinions on whether the Deceiver's ability to redeploy 3 units into reserves is free or not. When I read it, my inclination was that it is free, but I have seen other people argue it isn't, and that it just allows you to pay CP at a later point than normal, not to ignore the CP costs entirely.

I meant that the Deceiver can dimensionallly transport himself for free.

I think his ability lets you:
1. Reposition up tp three units immediatly (takes effect in your first battle round) (This part is free)
2. Or put a chosen number of those units into strategic reserves if the mission supports strategic reserves. (This is debatable)

Yeah I know what you meant, it just reminded me of the question about his redeploy ability. Normal deep strike is definitely free.

You can use his ability in any game, and if it's a game where strategic reserves are a thing, you can choose whether to redeploy on the board or redeploy into strategic reserves. The question is just whether you have to pay CP to put them into reserves, the way you would have had to pay if you put them in reserves in the first place.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Interestingly, I have seen different opinions on whether the Deceiver's ability to redeploy 3 units into reserves is free or not. When I read it, my inclination was that it is free, but I have seen other people argue it isn't, and that it just allows you to pay CP at a later point than normal, not to ignore the CP costs entirely.

My inclination is that it's free as well, but it needs a FAQ for sure.


What's everyone's thoughts on the Skorpekh Lord? I'm not sure if he is really worth taking or not. For his cost +10 points you can take 4 regular Skorpekhs. He does provide the reroll wound aura and is a character for Command protocols. The Native strength 8 on the Harvester is also nice.

I'd like him a lot more if he was Base A5 though.

Yeah I am pretty torn on the skorpekh lord. Not being a noble, only 4 attacks, and taking the -1 on his weapon are all rough. He's a real bastard to get rid of with the potential to stack -1 to wound and -1D, and even healing 2 wounds a round I guess if you really want to buy him that relic. But a command barge has way more utility for only 15 more points, so I'm not sure he's really all that great.

edit: Oh, he can't even rez. That kinda sucks. Another knock against him.

Overall I find it underwhelming, the -1 to hit is dumb and keyword restrictions are a big let down. Yet due to the lack of better options outside of the pricey CCB, I'll still probably use one in my main list.

Honestly the Skorpekh Lord is a classic example of GW undercooking a HQ beatstick because it's not part of the special Imperium and Chaos duopoly. Absolutely no chance he'd only have 4 attacks at 130 points if he was part of either of those factions.

I'm also inclined to believe the Decievers ability is free. It's very similar to the old GSC strat that let you put units back i ambush during deployment, but also allowed those units to surpass the 1/2 limit rule.

I know those are 2 different things but it's the closest comparison I can think of

 Sasori wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Interestingly, I have seen different opinions on whether the Deceiver's ability to redeploy 3 units into reserves is free or not. When I read it, my inclination was that it is free, but I have seen other people argue it isn't, and that it just allows you to pay CP at a later point than normal, not to ignore the CP costs entirely.

My inclination is that it's free as well, but it needs a FAQ for sure.


What's everyone's thoughts on the Skorpekh Lord? I'm not sure if he is really worth taking or not. For his cost +10 points you can take 4 regular Skorpekhs. He does provide the reroll wound aura and is a character for Command protocols. The Native strength 8 on the Harvester is also nice.

I'd like him a lot more if he was Base A5 though.

He also is character with 4++ so hard to get rid of. Skorpeks die very fast.

So far pre codex been consistently performing. Don't see it changing with codex.

Skorpekh lord is a beat stick but a very mediocre one. That -1 to hit was so unnecessary or they should have increased his attacks, given him advance and charge, or just something more.

Small tangent that they really messed up destroyers in the dex. A Skorpekh lord should have unlocked noble and changed destroyers to core. But I digress.

For his 130pt cost you could get 10 warriors or 10 flayed ones. 120pts gets you 8 scarab bases. All of these have much, much, more utility in any list.

Secondary characters are almost always going to be best filled by the various crypteks.

Cynista wrote:
Overall I find it underwhelming, the -1 to hit is dumb and keyword restrictions are a big let down. Yet due to the lack of better options outside of the pricey CCB, I'll still probably use one in my main list.

Honestly the Skorpekh Lord is a classic example of GW undercooking a HQ beatstick because it's not part of the special Imperium and Chaos duopoly. Absolutely no chance he'd only have 4 attacks at 130 points if he was part of either of those factions.

He's definitely a bit underwhelming offensively...just like all the other characters in the necron book except I guess the Nightbringer.

tneva82 nailed it, the Skorpekh Lord is a hidden assault unit that can take out 3 gravis marines a turn in cc. It also benefits from its aura effect making its str 8 attacks more reliable. If you are using lokhust destroyers the re-roll 1's to wound can allow you to save 2 command points as the stratagem no longer re-rolls to hit rolls.

He rerolls 1s for both hits and wounds, so he doesn't stack up terribly to a base captain / chaos lord. The issue is more that those models have ways to turn themselves into absolute blenders with warlord traits and relics, whereas the Skorpekh can really only boost his survivability.

Something like a white scars teeth of terra captain makes him look like a very limp noodle, for example.

What's funny is that you can take a plasmacyte for a Skorpekh lord

1/6 chance of death yes, but also +1S and +1A

if you could CP reroll that 1/6 chance i'd probably run it lol

A mephrit Skorpekh Lord with the Mephrit WL trait and the plasmacyte buff would S8 A6 base.

So 6 S10 Ap-4 D3 attacks on a 3+
or 12 S8 Ap-1 D1 attacks on a 2+

That'd be interesting

Which secondary objectives in the book do you plan on using?

 CKO wrote:
Which secondary objectives in the book do you plan on using?

I think they are all pretty bad. The Noble one may be worth using if you are playing the Silent King though.

Only the keep quarter one and even then depends a lot on matchup. Rest seems meh and kill stuff with noble worst especidlly without silent king

I do bot get it. If I wanted 3 monoliths in a list it would cost me 6 CP?

Do tgmhey get dynasty traits?

 Niiai wrote:
I do bot get it. If I wanted 3 monoliths in a list it would cost me 6 CP?

Do tgmhey get dynasty traits?

For 3 it would cost 6 CP, but you would then benefit from Dynasty Traits in a Super Heavy detachment.

Yeah, there is no way to combine the silent king to get any form of refund on that?

I just really like the monolith model.

I think Purge the Vermin is the best one. You should be able to keep them out of your deployment zone so that is 4 points a turn and, late game you may be able to get 6 points if you are winning.

 Niiai wrote:
Yeah, there is no way to combine the silent king to get any form of refund on that?

I just really like the monolith model.

No, but he does give you extra CP.

 Niiai wrote:
Yeah, there is no way to combine the silent king to get any form of refund on that?

I just really like the monolith model.

You could put the Silent King and 2 monoliths in the detachment so you get half of them back, but then you'd still have to pay for a patrol or battalion if you're fielding anything else


Secondaries wise I think Purge the Vermin and Ancient Machines are situationally viable. Like if your opponent is less likely to deepstrike or outflank anything, or if your army can competently hold the mid field

But I would not get any points back would I?

To field the king I would need the supreme comand detachment? To field a super heavy axilrery detachment it would cost me 3 CP. To field the minimum super heavy detachments is a minimum of 6 CP as the monoliths have the Titatinc keyword? And I can not do 2x super heavy axilrery detachment, supreme comand detachment and a patrol, as that would be 4 detachements.

The monolith is in an odd place. Eating 6 CP does not feel good either way.

I've settled on a list for the time being.



It's actually largely similar to my 8th edition list. Will hopefully get to try it out soon, likely against Guard. If I buy the Void Dragon before then, he will replace NB.

Cynista wrote:
I've settled on a list for the time being.

Spoiler:

6" pre game move & -T dynasty traits

CCB w/ gauss & voltaic staff
Skorpekh Lord
Psychomancer w/ deep strike Arcana

10 Warriors
10 Warriors
5 Immortals

Nightbringer
Triarch Stalker
10 Flayed Ones
3 Skorpekh Destroyers

Tomb Sentinel w/ gloom prism (until it gets nerfed to BS4+)
5 Wraiths
3 Scarab bases

DDA

It's actually largely similar to my 8th edition list. Will hopefully get to try it out soon, likely against Guard. If I buy the Void Dragon before then, he will replace NB.

You've got a solid base there. Spaced out melee threat, decent anti tank, Nightbringer. My only worry is that none of your units (beyond the ND and wraiths) are hard to remove. Having a Sentinel myself I would unfortunately drop it in favor of more warriors/immortals, but other than that I'm interested to see how it plays

So how about these roll your own dynasty rules? I was looking at a review of them and wad debating the merits of things that give you a one time useful thing, like the dynasty trait that lets you reposition your army like 6" after deployment but before the first turn. That can be a big deal as it can save you from the dreads "first turn plastering" if you lose the first turn and get pounded badly by a long range shooty army.

But it's a one time deal, and once the first turn has passed that's it.

Other traits give you smaller advantages all thru the game. it may be a smal lone but you may get several chances to make it pay for you, like the one that lets units reroll one wound roll per turn. That plus your super weapons can be an advantage all thru the game.

I'm still working on what ones I'll take, anyone else chosen theirs yet?

So realistically the Sentinel is a bit of a luxury pick, but I really do think 9th edition has done wonders for it. Can now move and shoot without penalty which is a big win. Whilst it would have been hilarious to shoot the exile cannon in combat that was never going to be allowed, so it got Blast which is a nice extra it didn't get before. Add the new codex has brought new buffs and strats for CANOPTEK. You can currently get these guys to a 2+ to hit (it won't last but fun in the mean time). I think the Tomb Stalker is pretty good now too as it can shoot in combat

In the FW update I'd love to see them given around 12-14 wounds, they're huge models anyways and need help staying alive

And yeah my compulsion to get as much different stuff in as I can does impede on durability, no doubt.

Do you think Void Dragon is better?

I haven’t seen the vid but aren’t they each better at different things? The Deceiver is good for manoeuvrability, Nightbringer is good at murdering infantry (although he’s probably a little too good at killing anything but I feel this was meant to be his role) and the Void Dragon is good at destroying vehicles?

So I would imagine comparing them as which is the best over the other should be more a question of, which fits in my list with the units I have?