Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
My issue with the gauss on the stalker is its D3D.
Its not strong enough to reliably kill big models
Its not enough shots to clear chaff
And the D3D will commonly "waste shots" against 2-3W low toughness models.

If that cannon was 2D, or more expensive but 3D, i'd take it over the heatray in a heartbeat.
I hate D3D and i wish they'd stop giving weapons that profile.

d3 damage prefers 3 wound over 2 wound for sure. flat 2 would be better but it such a small difference it doesn't make an issue for me. Especially with that number of shots. Your chance of out-damaging a flat 2 weapon against a vehicle is well with in reason. Plus with -1 to damage abilities it can be a lot better too. I see the frustration with it but the upside is flat 6 shots. Number of shots is the most important factor on a multi damage weapon IMO.

The problem with the heat ray is two-fold - first, the sort of thing you want to shoot it at is unlikely to be what you want to get reroll 1s against from the rest of your army, and second, even if it is, you have a decent chance of missing both shots, meaning you don't trigger the reroll 1s at all.

Within 12" obviously that problem goes away, but it does mean that you don't have a good way to put the reroll 1s buff that you are paying so many points for onto what you want to put it on from decent range, which IMO really defeats the purpose of the model.

The big advantage of gauss is that it has a profile that is good for shooting at literally anything, and it is almost certain to hit at least once, so you are always able to put the reroll 1s on whatever you want to put it on without wasting the weapon profile.

Heat Ray every time for me. Whilst the new Heavy Gauss profile is... interesting, I'll always want the TS in the middle of the board being a big fat nuisance

yukishiro1 wrote:
The problem with the heat ray is two-fold - first, the sort of thing you want to shoot it at is unlikely to be what you want to get reroll 1s against from the rest of your army, and second, even if it is, you have a decent chance of missing both shots, meaning you don't trigger the reroll 1s at all.

Within 12" obviously that problem goes away, but it does mean that you don't have a good way to put the reroll 1s buff that you are paying so many points for onto what you want to put it on from decent range, which IMO really defeats the purpose of the model.

The big advantage of gauss is that it has a profile that is good for shooting at literally anything, and it is almost certain to hit at least once, so you are always able to put the reroll 1s on whatever you want to put it on without wasting the weapon profile.

Exactly. It is the best all purpose weapon on the list. Also - it is reasonably priced but also doesn't have any other weapons but melee. Additional points into its weapon to make it better is a good use of points considering it is one of the most durable units we have access too.

Yeah, and another hit against the heat ray is that it doesn't get ob-sec, a pre-game move or any other dynasty bonus, so its value moving up the table and sitting on an objective flaming and meleeing stuff is not as high as it could be. Can't even be healed by a technomancer or spyder.

IMO its best value is as a self-contained model that doesn't need support that can just stomp around shooting what it needs to while playing the angles to shield it from some return shooting. Charging it straight up the board with a heat ray seems like asking for it to get tied up or just blown up.

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Tomb Blades seem really great now as they benefit so much from being Core. A Technomancer with Canoptek Cloak and Hypermaterial Ablator following them around can take them to a 2+ Sv and res one per turn. MWBD, Lords Will, Relentless March, Adaptive Strategy are all nice too, and even Szeras augments if he's around.

And with veil of darkness he can teleport himself and a unit of tomb blades.

Can the Veil take Tomb Blades? I don't think it can...?
I know in 8th the Veil could *only* take a squad with the infantry key word.
I believe Tomb Blades are considered to be Bikers, correct?

Veil is Core locked, not infantry.

I kinda wish it was infantry, since that would allow it to move destroyers.

But TombBlades are core so they can be veil'd

Do you really need to veil one of the fastest units in the army? Don't get me wrong, there are always going to be edge cases where such a move might be beneficial, I just don't see the value in bringing a veil with the express reason to use it on Tomb Blades.

oh im definitely never doing it.
Theres no reason to veil Tomeblades. Theyre fast, have good reach, and 0 reason to be in near-melee or melee distances.
Reaper warriorss do. Lychguard do. Either would be great even if you just brough the relic and didnt stockpile the shenanigans with it lol.

Tombblades i want nearby the overlord or CCB because they benefit from MWBD quite nicely.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh im definitely never doing it.
Theres no reason to veil Tomeblades. Theyre fast, have good reach, and 0 reason to be in near-melee or melee distances.
Reaper warriorss do. Lychguard do. Either would be great even if you just brough the relic and didnt stockpile the shenanigans with it lol.

Tombblades i want nearby the overlord or CCB because they benefit from MWBD quite nicely.

Deepstriking Lychguards are gak with a 9" (8 at best if Novokh) rerollable charge which is the best case scenario and still failing 40% of times

Yeah IMO the only way to get scytheguard to work is using the night sycthe for a 6" charge. That's pretty much guaranteed with a reroll; even Novokh veil is only a 65% chance, and having your unit sit there doing nothing then die 35% of the time doesn't work competitively.

Veil at the moment feels like it's for a 20-man reaper blob and not much else.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The problem with the heat ray is two-fold - first, the sort of thing you want to shoot it at is unlikely to be what you want to get reroll 1s against from the rest of your army, and second, even if it is, you have a decent chance of missing both shots, meaning you don't trigger the reroll 1s at all.

I don't think this is as much of an issue as you think it is. If you really need the buff you can pay 1 CP to be BS 2+ so hitting at least once is pretty reliable. Not to mention you can guarantee the re-roll with the flamer profile if it's close, although that is an admittedly situational advantage.

I get where people are coming from with the gauss option and I think it's good if what you really want is anti-gravis but I still prefer heat ray. I think with heat ray the stalker is exactly where it wants to be. It's an annoying thorn in your opponent's side that hangs around the mid board to shoot at harder targets with the focused profile and counter charge elite units and transports that stray too close. Yes 2d6 flamer shots aren't exactly melting hordes but that's not why it's useful. The flamer option allows it to be a mid-board presence that can't be tied up by chaff OR transport vehicles. If your opponent charges it with chaff you overwatch with 2d6 shots and then kill a few in melee too. If they charge with a transport you can just punch it in melee and then melta it on your turn. It's an all rounder that can be a real headache for your opponent regardless of how they try to deal with it. Sure, it's not tremendously efficient on its own, but it can't be ignored either.

Stalker with Heat Ray is a glorious Distraction Carnifex, pretty much the best in the game right now. Ridiculously tanky (it has a 50/50 chance of surviving 6 Eliminators with full rerolls), can threaten a wide variety of targets, cannot be bogged down in melee because no Blast and deals additional damage with decent melee capabilities.

 TheArchmagos wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The problem with the heat ray is two-fold - first, the sort of thing you want to shoot it at is unlikely to be what you want to get reroll 1s against from the rest of your army, and second, even if it is, you have a decent chance of missing both shots, meaning you don't trigger the reroll 1s at all.

I don't think this is as much of an issue as you think it is. If you really need the buff you can pay 1 CP to be BS 2+ so hitting at least once is pretty reliable. Not to mention you can guarantee the re-roll with the flamer profile if it's close, although that is an admittedly situational advantage.

I get where people are coming from with the gauss option and I think it's good if what you really want is anti-gravis but I still prefer heat ray. I think with heat ray the stalker is exactly where it wants to be. It's an annoying thorn in your opponent's side that hangs around the mid board to shoot at harder targets with the focused profile and counter charge elite units and transports that stray too close. Yes 2d6 flamer shots aren't exactly melting hordes but that's not why it's useful. The flamer option allows it to be a mid-board presence that can't be tied up by chaff OR transport vehicles. If your opponent charges it with chaff you overwatch with 2d6 shots and then kill a few in melee too. If they charge with a transport you can just punch it in melee and then melta it on your turn. It's an all rounder that can be a real headache for your opponent regardless of how they try to deal with it. Sure, it's not tremendously efficient on its own, but it can't be ignored either.

The targeting array ability does not require a hit on the target. All you have to do is shoot at the target to get reroll 1s for the army.

Lokhust Destroyers




With the Triarch Stalker, I like the Particle Shredder, multiple marines dying on a 4+ is good. I also like the twin heavy gauss cannon getting -4 AP with Mephrit easily because they can move 10 and be within 16 inches. The 9th edition targeting relay says if a hit is scored.

 iGuy91 wrote:

The targeting array ability does not require a hit on the target. All you have to do is shoot at the target to get reroll 1s for the army.

I can see why you think that as that was how it worked in the previous codex, but read it again, they updated the wording to require a hit. Why they decided that ability needed to be nerfed is beyond me but they did it.

I have two rules questions for units that I admittedly don't plan to run any time soon. First is for the skorpekh destroyers. The composition for a unit of them seems weirdly specific to me. If I'm running a squad of five, is there any flex to the weapons the squad is carrying? Can I go two of the heavy weapons on a squad of four or five, or is it locked to the sixth model?

Secondly, the void dragon has a weird melee weapon. the phrasing is "each time the bearer fights" rather than the ""each time an attack is made with this weapon profile" of other models. does this mean it gets d6 free attacks with it, in addition to its other heavier weapon?

The Particle Shredder on the Stalker is an excellent gun. If I were mostly planning on shooting at targets on objectives along with my warriors, I think I'd grab the cheap option.

The Heavy Gauss lets the Stalker play a bit more cagey, though, which keeps it up and shooting. I like that profile for amplifying the excellent HQ based shooting in Necrons; I think we can get just enough quality shooting on our HQs to not absolutely need Destroyers as a scalpel with the help of the Stalker.

 Nora wrote:
quick question: Do you need to spend CP and use the Overwatch strat in order to actual use Sentinal Construct ability for the Domestalker?

Would appreciate if anyone can anwsert my question...

 Nora wrote:

 Nora wrote:
quick question: Do you need to spend CP and use the Overwatch strat in order to actual use Sentinal Construct ability for the Domestalker?

Would appreciate if anyone can anwsert my question...

Go to the You Make Da Call section for rules questions

 Nora wrote:
quick question: Do you need to spend CP and use the Overwatch strat in order to actual use Sentinal Construct ability for the Domestalker?

I would say no. Precedents being the tau greater Good ability and any of the marines overwatch interception strats. These have all been FAQ'd to state you don't need to use the overwatch strat.

No you dont have to pay CP for the overwatch ability.
Its an ability which says "You can fire overwatch" - codex > big rulebook. It also says "this is in addition to any other unit firing overwatch" which is 100% impossible if you still have to use the stratagem.

It's also important to note that the Doomstalker can only shoot overwatch in the opponent's turn if it didn't move during the previous movement phase in your turn, since it has to shoot at high power. That really limits its potential.

 Oaka wrote:
It's also important to note that the Doomstalker can only shoot overwatch in the opponent's turn if it didn't move during the previous movement phase in your turn, since it has to shoot at high power. That really limits its potential.

Not so. It's only shooting in the shooting phase that requires it to be static to fire at full power. In Overwatch there's no mention that it has to not move to enable overwatch nor to fire as part of overwatch.

Barcha wrote:
I have two rules questions for units that I admittedly don't plan to run any time soon. First is for the skorpekh destroyers. The composition for a unit of them seems weirdly specific to me. If I'm running a squad of five, is there any flex to the weapons the squad is carrying? Can I go two of the heavy weapons on a squad of four or five, or is it locked to the sixth model?

Secondly, the void dragon has a weird melee weapon. the phrasing is "each time the bearer fights" rather than the ""each time an attack is made with this weapon profile" of other models. does this mean it gets d6 free attacks with it, in addition to its other heavier weapon?

Yes, a unit of 5 has to have 4 of the normal double blades and 1 of the bigger blades. A unit of 6 adds one with another bigger blade. There is no flexibility.

The void dragon gets the d6 extra attacks with the tail each time it fights. There is no way to double fight with a C'tan, but if there somehow was, you'd get an extra d6 attacks with the tail each time. It's in addition to the normal spear attacks, not instead of.

 CKO wrote:
Lokhust Destroyers




With the Triarch Stalker, I like the Particle Shredder, multiple marines dying on a 4+ is good. I also like the twin heavy gauss cannon getting -4 AP with Mephrit easily because they can move 10 and be within 16 inches. The 9th edition targeting relay says if a hit is scored.

1 Issue - Triarchs don't get dynasty traits. They do have command protocols though - so you can get ap -4 another way.

Odd, and probably dumb, question. The Silent King has the Dynastic Agent keyword, does the SIlent King not benefit from his own dynasty trait? Seems rather wierd

Nobody knows. RAW he does not benefit, but that seems kinda weird, so I think people are hoping for a FAQ that says he does.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Nobody knows. RAW he does not benefit, but that seems kinda weird, so I think people are hoping for a FAQ that says he does.

Yeah, me too. Looking through the codex again there's nothing that exempts him from it. Hoping they let him benefit if he's in an all Szarekhan dynasty list

 Xenomancers wrote:

 CKO wrote:
Lokhust Destroyers




With the Triarch Stalker, I like the Particle Shredder, multiple marines dying on a 4+ is good. I also like the twin heavy gauss cannon getting -4 AP with Mephrit easily because they can move 10 and be within 16 inches. The 9th edition targeting relay says if a hit is scored.

1 Issue - Triarchs don't get dynasty traits. They do have command protocols though - so you can get ap -4 another way.

I forgot the Triarch Stalker doesn't receive the dynasty traits, which makes it less attractive. It's still a good unit though.

Are you guys having a hard time winning your games? If so please tell me what units you are having an issue playing against or what army. Also, I would like to know which units are underperforming for you.