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LiMunPai wrote:

Cauthon wrote:
If you like that then what about gauss bikes? Have their own in built delivery and can be ignoring cover.

A big squad of 9 Gauss tomb blades in Mephrit does sound like a good buy if you want to throw in a buff package for them, you have a different source of obsec, and you don't need the battalion for CP purposes.

I’ve been enjoying non battalion lists. Allows for a lot more creativity/ pushing a theme. Two squads of reaper warriors in ghost arcs, two max gauss bike squads, two full scarab squads, one unit of skorpekh, a ccb and a gauss stalker sounds pretty deadly and can still play (some of) the missions. Gauss stalker makes your bikes hit on twos rerolling ones, that will melt some blight lords. I’d think you’d need the skorpek to have at least one hammer but that could be two units of min wraiths depending on how you want to play objectives.. sounds fun?

My will be done is all the buffing the bikes need besides being meph and the ccb is an auto take anyway. If you want more than that they pair very well with the silent king, other than being mutually expensive. I could see the silent king with two big squads of gauss bikes but you’re definitely building around that.

Cauthon wrote:
I've been enjoying non battalion lists. Allows for a lot more creativity/ pushing a theme. Two squads of reaper warriors in ghost arcs, two max gauss bike squads, two full scarab squads, one unit of skorpekh, a ccb and a gauss stalker sounds pretty deadly and can still play (some of) the missions. Gauss stalker makes your bikes hit on twos rerolling ones, that will melt some blight lords. I’d think you’d need the skorpek to have at least one hammer but that could be two units of min wraiths depending on how you want to play objectives.. sounds fun?

My will be done is all the buffing the bikes need besides being meph and the ccb is an auto take anyway. If you want more than that they pair very well with the silent king, other than being mutually expensive. I could see the silent king with two big squads of gauss bikes but you’re definitely building around that.

I haven't had any luck with warriors in Ghost Arcs, mostly due to the 10 man size. RP being denied with a full kill is just so bad for them.

I'd also like to see a 300 point unit like the bikes get a bit more support. I'd think a Veil caddy of some sort would be good to get them out of being tagged in combat. A res orb on the CCB would do quite well on this unit as well.

The ghost arcs were for vehicle/ quantum shielding saturation and to protect the warriors till midgame. Was just a sample list though, if it doesn’t suit your fancy then forget about it. I was just putting as much heat into a meph list that could still play missions.

Veil on bikes is a total waste, they have plenty fast enough movement to get where they want to be. There’s even the strat to allow them to advance and shoot. The veil would be better used to support your bikes not moving them into position.

The bikes speed is one of their biggest advantages, getting to just within rapid fire range of whatever you need to be. If you’re just going to treat them like immortals then it may not be the unit for you.

Cauthon wrote:
The ghost arcs were for vehicle/ quantum shielding saturation and to protect the warriors till midgame. Was just a sample list though, if it doesn’t suit your fancy then forget about it. I was just putting as much heat into a meph list that could still play missions.

Veil on bikes is a total waste, they have plenty fast enough movement to get where they want to be. There’s even the strat to allow them to advance and shoot. The veil would be better used to support your bikes not moving them into position.

The bikes speed is one of their biggest advantages, getting to just within rapid fire range of whatever you need to be. If you’re just going to treat them like immortals then it may not be the unit for you.

The veil would be to have them essentially fall back and shoot. I actually really like the Royal Warden as an alternative here with the Conduit of Stars. I just suggested the Veil because you could take it on any supplemental character.

I do like the unit. I'd use it if I owned 9 of them.

LiMunPai wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.

Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.

Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.

That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.

Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.

A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean

 TheArchmagos wrote:
I can definitely see a list running twenty lychguard being good, although I'm not convinced it's worth running scythes over shields, the survivability just seems so good and against a lot of targets they aren't even that much more killy. Twenty shieldguard would be super tough to grind through though, especially if they're obsec and stealing the objectives the whole time. I really wish that GW had written it so you could mix and match the loadouts in the squad. It would be a simple change but maybe then lychguard would be too good? 6 shields and 4 scythes so you can have offence and defence would be amazing.

The fact we can't mix Lychguard squads REALLY cheeses me off. Almost every other faction with heavy infantry can do that and it even shows mixed squads in Necron artwork

I'd love to have 6 scytheguard with 4 shieldeguard

Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.

Can't mix THs and storm bolters.

 vict0988 wrote:

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.

Can't mix THs and storm bolters.

You definitely can have both TH/SS and storm bolter/power fist guys in the same squad.

Nobody can mix mix assault terminators and shooty terminators which would be the equivalent, necrons have always had less in-unit versatility. No special weapons or assault weapons, weapon options have always been binary with bikes being the exception.

Mixing scythguard and shield guard doesn’t sound so great anyways. It’s always nice to have options but you’re just asking for an identity crisis. Are you sitting on an objective or are you big game hunting? Can’t do both.

The difference between the offense of scythguard and shieldguard is just as large as the befensive stats. Double the ap and being able to spike up to strength 8 is big money. No vehicle can take a full charge from a unit of scythguard.

Death guard are a boogeyman but marines are still going to be massively more common. If we are talking primaris then it’s two failed five up saves kills a marine vs every successful wound picks one up. If we are talking terminators they either get two 4 ups per dead model or each failed 5++ pulls a model. Those are massive efficiency swings.

Scytheguard should always be hiding out of los as much as possible until they are ready to charge, shieldguard will be able to sit on an objective in the open loud and proud meaning they are going to be getting charged frequently. Plenty of units will have the output to take a big chunk out before you get to activate.

Two polar opposites as far as intended use between the two units. They are both excellent at what they do, mixing would just water them down.

Not to burst bubbles, but Deathwing Terminators can mix whatever they like, as can pretty much anything from the Custodian repertoir.

So, the examples do exist, I'm sure there's more but thats just what I can think of offhand. .


Personally I dont think I'd mix anyway, but I do think it should be an option.

Those are very special snowflakes.

Cauthon wrote:
Those are very special snowflakes.

Want some less special snowflakes?

Ork Nobs of both varieties, the entire GK codex, Chaos Terminators, Thunderwolves, Vanguard Veterans, Crisis + Broadside teams (albeit these are guns not melee weapons)

If I thought more I could list more, and please dont think I am intentionally being awkward, but I do think there are way more examples of mixed weapon units than there are single weapon units.

So much so, that I think the single wepaon squads are limited to our own (Lych + Preatorian) & Primaris units.

Was talking about codex space marines. The far and away most common army(s). Terminator squads and assault terminators. Not broadsides or ork nobs. Yes there are units that have mixed weapon options. That has NEVER been the necrons schtick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you’re going to include every unit in the game then that changes the math on the different offensive outputs.

Actually it has been the Necrons schtick. In our codex only Lychguard and Praetorians can't mix and match to one extent or another

And it's pretty obvious we were talking about every faction

Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.

I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.

Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.

I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.

You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.

Canoptek Spyders can mix

Ok... not really though, you can choose to have guns on them or not, there isn’t two different flavors you can mix in, it’s binary, you’ve got them or you don’t. But fine, bikes, wraiths spyders, kind of.

Just about every necron unit that has different load out options is purely binary. There is zero precedent or reason as to why lychguard should be able to have mixed weapon load outs within a single squad. It’s not how necrons work. You can’t even turn down the heavy weapon in skorpekh squads, it’s just 1 in 3 has them.

Cauthon wrote:
Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.

I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.

Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.

I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.

You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.

If you want to be the nitpicky about it, then include all Space Marine Terminators

Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Space Wolves (I think Wolf Guard still can?), Loyalist Assault Terminators, Relic Terminators, all Chaos Terminators (not sure on Scarabs from TS, but I am willing to bet)

All of the above can mix CCWs in the squad. Precedent is definately there, why can't we do that?

And truth be told I am pretty certain Assault Terminators can mix TH/SS & LC in a single squad anyway, not that I do, because I only own TH/SS versions

Cauthon wrote:
Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.

I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.

Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.

I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.

You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.

You were, I wasn't.

You can mix Warriors guns. And even Lokhust's can take a heavy per squad. So of units with multiple weapon options, 3 units have no flexibility and 4 have full flexibility. Destroyers are their own thing.

Now that we've established that it's not somehow against the Necron way of life, let's take it back to the original point. Most other factions can mix/match their heavy infantry. Many have been mentioned, Bullgryn are another. We're merely saying it would be nice to have the option, since there is no good reason why not.

Well I did miss that warriors can mix ranged weapons. That’s nuts honestly.

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.

Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.

Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.

That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.

Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.

A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean

That does sound really good, and it's perhaps even better than the Mephrit immortals.

I just like Mephrit more overall for a list comp. The Warlord Trait for a melee CCB and the Royal Warden Relic are really strong. I like the availability of a battalion, which I normally wouldn't field with Necrons, but it provides strong CP support when 3xImmortals are a strong option. You can funnel that extra CP availability into fueling CP intense options like C'tan and Lokhust Destroyers.

While I know it's a silly list, it's so classic Old Cron that I can't resist. The fact that this list fits 2000 exactly feels like a sign to run it:

I like it. If you're going for classic you need to be Sautekh and have Flayers on all the warriors - although Novokh with Reapers would be stronger.

 Blndmage wrote:
While I know it's a silly list, it's so classic Old Cron that I can't resist. The fact that this list fits 2000 exactly feels like a sign to run it:

Spoiler:

3 Monoliths with Gauss Flux Arcs
60 Warriors
Lord - Warlord, Veil, Enduring Will WLT, Staff of Light
Lord - Staff of Light

Custom Dynasty: 6" pregame move and Rad Wreathed

Exactly 2,000 with 6PL to start with, unsure about Reserves and such

Not bad but certainly not really competitive.
I'd consider a SK but 60 Warriors is my taste.

 Blndmage wrote:
While I know it's a silly list, it's so classic Old Cron that I can't resist. The fact that this list fits 2000 exactly feels like a sign to run it:

Spoiler:

3 Monoliths with Gauss Flux Arcs
60 Warriors
Lord - Warlord, Veil, Enduring Will WLT, Staff of Light
Lord - Staff of Light

Custom Dynasty: 6" pregame move and Rad Wreathed

Exactly 2,000 with 6PL to start with, unsure about Reserves and such

Do it man, I bet you'll have an absolute blast! Have to agree, don't think its the most competitive as you'll probably struggle to play some of the missions with so few units.

Having said that, one monolith is hard enough to deal with on its own... dropping down three of them is probably enough for some people to call you a bully lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LiMunPai wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.

Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.

Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.

That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.

Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.

A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean

That does sound really good, and it's perhaps even better than the Mephrit immortals.

I just like Mephrit more overall for a list comp. The Warlord Trait for a melee CCB and the Royal Warden Relic are really strong. I like the availability of a battalion, which I normally wouldn't field with Necrons, but it provides strong CP support when 3xImmortals are a strong option. You can funnel that extra CP availability into fueling CP intense options like C'tan and Lokhust Destroyers.

I hear you, Mephrit immortals do sound fun. Running 3x10 next to a Warden is how I'd run them in the custom dynasty too - they lose a substantial amount of punch when they aren't Novokh so that fall back and shoot is super strong. Mephrit was also how I ran my warriors right at the start of the new codex until those Novokh lists started creeping up.

My current theory is that the custom dynasty looks good on paper, but unless you absolutely nail your deployment, you're still gonna be moving your immortals into position for the first turn at least, in which case Mephrit should give you more utility right out the gate.

I'll let you guys know how the test games go anyway

This is what I'm thinking list wise:

SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.

if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.

 Xenomancers wrote:
SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.

if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.

It should be 25 hits, 20 shots, 10 re-rolls, five 4s and 5s each for 10 hits and 15 hits from the five 6s. I don't understand how you can say tesla is worth it on Immortals where it costs 2 pts more than Gauss but not on TBs where it costs 0 pts extra. Tesla also stops looking hot as soon as SK dies. The same pts worth of TBs as 10 Tesla Immortals output 33,78 hits and move 14" instead of 10", 30,7 hits with 3+ Sv. They also benefit to a larger degree from additional buffs like Lord's Will and My Will Be Done. I don't really know why you need Immortals at all, Tomb Blades do both better, the mobility is big for gauss and the tesla surcharge on Immortals is BS and if you have some way of cheating your gauss Immortals into range you might as well cheat a blob of reaper Warriors in.

Unless im really confused I'm pretty sure the math is out on that one bro, tesla tomb blades are 30ppm so for 190pts you get 6 models meaning 24 shots base compared to 20 base from the immortals

I get where you're coming from but the roles between the two units are really different, I think its unfair to say that TB invalidate immortals. T5 3+ with a 2+ in cover is a really strong profile to have in the backfield

 vict0988 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.

if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.

It should be 25 hits, 20 shots, 10 re-rolls, five 4s and 5s each for 10 hits and 15 hits from the five 6s. I don't understand how you can say tesla is worth it on Immortals where it costs 2 pts more than Gauss but not on TBs where it costs 0 pts extra. Tesla also stops looking hot as soon as SK dies. The same pts worth of TBs as 10 Tesla Immortals output 33,78 hits and move 14" instead of 10", 30,7 hits with 3+ Sv. They also benefit to a larger degree from additional buffs like Lord's Will and My Will Be Done. I don't really know why you need Immortals at all, Tomb Blades do both better, the mobility is big for gauss and the tesla surcharge on Immortals is BS and if you have some way of cheating your gauss Immortals into range you might as well cheat a blob of reaper Warriors in.

Realistically - TB have the ability to get into rapid fire range on their own.
Why need immortals? They have 2 attacks / have far more durability to mutlidamage attacks / are objective secured / are troops?
I wasn't suggesting you take immortals instead of TB. TB are awesome. Tesla immortals are just a lot better than gauss. 2pmm is literally nothing to have 2-3 times the damage output on the first turn on top of better positioning. That being said - tesla TB can work too in theory - never used them though. I always give TB gauss and they always kill it. Also - if SK dies - you probably lost the game anyways unless it's later in the game.