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2020/10/18 14:56:37
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ive been looking at the gargantuan Squiggoth and the Big trakk, and neither of those can equip "Da Boomer" despite the fact they are able to equip KillKannons. For some reason only Battlewagon/Gunwagon/Bonebreakers can use this Kustom Job..
Further more, da "Tin' Eads' specialist culture affects KILLA KANS, DEFF DREADS, MEGA ARMOUR, MORKANAUTS, GORKANAUTS and STOMPAS. Why on gods green earth do this specialist culture not affect Meka-Dreads? Surely they should be able to be "Tin Eads'" too. They are as much tin eads as anyone else. They fit the entire specialist culture.
I just find all these weird rules things that dont make any real sense gameplay wise. Both forge world and games workshop units can be used in a match, yet for some reason, forge world units are often left out.
I was thinking of grabbing hold of a Meka Dread at some point for a fancy Tin Eads' company, but i guess that doesnt matter now.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 16:19:50
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3 |
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2020/10/18 15:00:05
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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There’s a new FW book coming up. Maybe hold the dispair until we see GW Main Studio’s new take on FW rules...
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2020/10/18 15:04:40
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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The sins of the past caught up and all FW units seem to be paying the price of perceived overpoweredness of a few units from the days gone by, that's why.
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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2020/10/18 15:17:09
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Battleship Captain
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The GW rules people don't appear to talk to each other. I feel like they seal three random members in a room with a laptop with no wifi for a few weeks then just print whatever they come out with.
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2020/10/18 16:55:57
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Beardedragon wrote:
I was thinking of grabbing hold of a Meka Dread at some point for a fancy Tin Eads' company, but i guess that doesnt matter now.
If you like the MODEL & can afford it, buy it. Because eventually it'll be discontinued & become harder to aquire.
As for a single rule? If you play with a regular group/friends discuss it with them.
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2020/10/18 17:07:01
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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The current FW rules came out before the 8e codexes. They are written without army abilities from the codexes in mind.
The next books should be out before too long (touch wood), and will be written by the main GW team so they should bring everything more into line.
Whether than makes units stronger or weaker will probably be a bit of a crap shoot though!
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2020/10/18 17:23:23
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Actually, the kustom jobs were definitely written with FW in mind - there is a stratagem explicitly calling out Mekboss Buzzgob, a FW character, in Saga of the Beast, so it's very much intended that none of the other units benefit from the rules in that book in any way. My take on things is that eventually the ork FW options will completely disappear. The most recent releases have been with IA:6 in 5th edition and the range has been reduced more and more every year. There is no reason to release stuff in resin instead of plastic anymore.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 17:23:56
7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2020/10/18 17:34:29
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Jidmah wrote:Actually, the kustom jobs were definitely written with FW in mind - there is a stratagem explicitly calling out Mekboss Buzzgob, a FW character, in Saga of the Beast, so it's very much intended that none of the other units benefit from the rules in that book in any way.
My take on things is that eventually the ork FW options will completely disappear. The most recent releases have been with IA:6 in 5th edition and the range has been reduced more and more every year.
There is no reason to release stuff in resin instead of plastic anymore.
Well, no reason to release anything not a legion specific dreadnought.
As for stuff not affecting forgeworld, it's a combination of protection and most of the codex stuff being written with exclusively the codex in mind. FW stuff just kind of exists. Sometimes the codex stuff hits it too, and then something too good comes out of it, and GW goes "aw. crud" and then just FAQ's it to say "well, it doesn't affect that unit anymore".
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 17:37:36
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! |
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2020/10/18 18:28:24
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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May i ask a completely non related question to my own topic?
I have a trukk, and it says, each mega armor takes the spot of two other models" does this mean that One mega armored Nob takes the space of 3 regular orks or two regular orks?
I read it as two regular orks (so a space of 12 boyz can be 6 MANZ). but i have not tried transports yet so i wanted to be sure that it wasnt that single MANZ model took the space of 2 more models, for a total of 3.
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Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3 |
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2020/10/18 18:47:38
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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It's the former. They take up the space of two other models, so a Trukk can carry 6 MANz
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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2020/10/18 19:26:10
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Grimtuff wrote:It's the former. They take up the space of two other models, so a Trukk can carry 6 MANz
thanks. I have another question. " When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that it is wholly within 3" of the Transport model and not within engagement range of any enemy models".
Does this mean i can charge a Trukk with MANZ in to a pack of random enemies, and in the next turn where i can actually disembark, i can still disembark my MANZ when my Trukk is in engagement range, as long as my MANZ themselves do NOT disembark within that engagement range?
(Trukk is within 1 inch of an enemy, but the MANZ disembark 2 inches away from my enemy?). Or can my MANZ not disembark as long as the trukk is in combat either?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 19:27:31
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3 |
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2020/10/19 00:39:52
Subject: Re:Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Grimtuff wrote:The sins of the past caught up and all FW units seem to be paying the price of perceived overpoweredness of a few units from the days gone by, that's why.
Even that's mostly myth, looking at older editions and stuff people complain about, the majority of the time it's stuff people never actually fought against, didn't actually exist, or the rules weren't read properly (lost count of how many times I informed people that no, the units didn't actually do that insane thing their opponent said it did )
A *lot* of people just made the assumption that because FW made models for very large units, everything they did was overpowered broken insanity and huge mega units, often without ever really looking at the rules or full product spread
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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2020/10/19 07:08:53
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Also internal politicking and therefore sabotage at work...
And more time for SM instead of all other parts.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2020/10/19 10:47:41
Subject: Re:Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Vaktathi wrote: Grimtuff wrote:The sins of the past caught up and all FW units seem to be paying the price of perceived overpoweredness of a few units from the days gone by, that's why.
Even that's mostly myth, looking at older editions and stuff people complain about, the majority of the time it's stuff people never actually fought against, didn't actually exist, or the rules weren't read properly (lost count of how many times I informed people that no, the units didn't actually do that insane thing their opponent said it did )
A *lot* of people just made the assumption that because FW made models for very large units, everything they did was overpowered broken insanity and huge mega units, often without ever really looking at the rules or full product spread
Indeed, I could barely get into double figures of FW units from past editions I would straight up not play. So that was roughly 9ish units max out of dozens they made, yet they were all tarred with the same brush (or given CSM spike tax, just because).
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Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. |
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2020/10/19 10:58:51
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Beardedragon wrote: Grimtuff wrote:It's the former. They take up the space of two other models, so a Trukk can carry 6 MANz
thanks. I have another question. " When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that it is wholly within 3" of the Transport model and not within engagement range of any enemy models".
Does this mean i can charge a Trukk with MANZ in to a pack of random enemies, and in the next turn where i can actually disembark, i can still disembark my MANZ when my Trukk is in engagement range, as long as my MANZ themselves do NOT disembark within that engagement range?
(Trukk is within 1 inch of an enemy, but the MANZ disembark 2 inches away from my enemy?). Or can my MANZ not disembark as long as the trukk is in combat either?
Yes.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2020/10/19 14:49:39
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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I feel GW wants to get rid of resin stuff altogether. Understandable, since they use different molds and techniques - needing different specialized people and more maintenance costs.
That means either FW stuff (or some of it) will eventually become plastic or it'll be scrapped entirely; I believe the latter has more possibility of happening. Perhaps, for 10th edition, there won't be a 'FW' anymore.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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2020/10/19 17:00:39
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Resin vs plastic debate aside, it's because the FW indexes are usually not updated with the release of each codex, meaning anything in them is immediately obsolete re: any new mechanics.
As long as GW maintains this absurd rules separation between the two lines, that's likely to continue.
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2020/10/19 17:10:11
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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yukishiro1 wrote:Resin vs plastic debate aside, it's because the FW indexes are usually not updated with the release of each codex, meaning anything in them is immediately obsolete re: any new mechanics.
As long as GW maintains this absurd rules separation between the two lines, that's likely to continue.
I'll second this. Though fw units sometimes benefit from updated faction wide traits, and strategems that key off of keywords in ways gw doesn't expect. Cue Iron Hands leviathans.
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2020/10/19 18:21:12
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Stormin' Stompa
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Vector Strike wrote:I feel GW wants to get rid of resin stuff altogether. Understandable, since they use different molds and techniques - needing different specialized people and more maintenance costs.
That means either FW stuff (or some of it) will eventually become plastic or it'll be scrapped entirely; I believe the latter has more possibility of happening. Perhaps, for 10th edition, there won't be a ' FW' anymore.
That will be a shame. I always liked the Ork aesthetic of FW. The vehicles are more ramshackle and the orks are more gnarly.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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2020/10/19 20:52:14
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Annandale, VA
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Mr Nobody wrote:That will be a shame. I always liked the Ork aesthetic of FW. The vehicles are more ramshackle and the orks are more gnarly.
I've always gotten the feeling that the Forge World sculptors and painters come from model kits and historical wargaming moreso than sci-fi or fantasy. The sculpts have a sense of realism to them even when they're depicting giant fungal hooligan aliens, and the paintjobs are more gritty weathering, pigments, and chipping than they are solid colors and clean edge highlights.
Definitely will be sad to see that go but I think the writing's on the wall- they rebranded on social media earlier this year to focus on Specialist Games, and all the 40K and Fantasy stuff is slowly being phased out.
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2020/10/20 00:27:16
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Chock me up as another one who prefers the FW aesthetic. But I agree I think it's going the way of the dodo. It seems at odds with where GW has been trying to send the IP, they seem to be more on the superhero side of the spectrum recently than the gritty side.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 00:28:26
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2020/10/20 08:46:45
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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Mr Nobody wrote: Vector Strike wrote:I feel GW wants to get rid of resin stuff altogether. Understandable, since they use different molds and techniques - needing different specialized people and more maintenance costs.
That means either FW stuff (or some of it) will eventually become plastic or it'll be scrapped entirely; I believe the latter has more possibility of happening. Perhaps, for 10th edition, there won't be a ' FW' anymore.
That will be a shame. I always liked the Ork aesthetic of FW. The vehicles are more ramshackle and the orks are more gnarly.
From my part, I love their Tau stuff. Barracudas and Tiger Sharks look KILOMETERS better than Sun/Razorsharks, and the XV-9 also looks way better than the XV-8.
And the Taunar is one of the coolest mechs I've ever seen.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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2020/10/20 08:48:16
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Any dreadnought from FW looks better (except maybee the leviathan) then GW's offering for CSM dreads...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 08:48:36
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2020/10/20 14:20:26
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
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Not Online!!! wrote:Any dreadnought from FW looks better (except maybee the leviathan) then GW's offering for CSM dreads...
The night lords contemptor is the dopest looking dreadnought in the game, not even close.
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2020/10/20 14:31:18
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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VladimirHerzog wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Any dreadnought from FW looks better (except maybee the leviathan) then GW's offering for CSM dreads...
The night lords contemptor is the dopest looking dreadnought in the game, not even close.
Had a brainfart at the time i meant the Ufo aka deredo..
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 15:03:28
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2020/10/20 14:41:35
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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VladimirHerzog wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Any dreadnought from FW looks better (except maybee the leviathan) then GW's offering for CSM dreads...
The night lords contemptor is the dopest looking dreadnought in the game, not even close.
Seconded, 100%. Our leviathan is wicked as well, I just left the desiccated torso off of mine, thought it was a bit too much. Most of the fw tanks fit the Undivided Legions better than the dinobots too IMHO. And the klos is fine for World Eaters and Black Legion, but a well weathered Fellblade or Spartan fits the Eighth Legion or Alpha Legion far better for a LOW. And Tyhons just scream "Iron Warriors".
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2020/10/20 16:01:18
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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catbarf wrote: Mr Nobody wrote:That will be a shame. I always liked the Ork aesthetic of FW. The vehicles are more ramshackle and the orks are more gnarly.
I've always gotten the feeling that the Forge World sculptors and painters come from model kits and historical wargaming moreso than sci-fi or fantasy. The sculpts have a sense of realism to them even when they're depicting giant fungal hooligan aliens, and the paintjobs are more gritty weathering, pigments, and chipping than they are solid colors and clean edge highlights.
Definitely will be sad to see that go but I think the writing's on the wall- they rebranded on social media earlier this year to focus on Specialist Games, and all the 40K and Fantasy stuff is slowly being phased out.
I remember the last time all the specialist games stuff got send to Forgeworld.
It too, ended badly.
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Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. |
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2020/10/20 17:48:32
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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FW has a tricky job.
In terms of the various kits and armies, their offerings shouldn’t be a patch, as in a way to cover a deliberate weakness of a given army.
Example. FW should never provide a deadly HTH unit for Tau. Or a super accurate unit for Orks. So on and so forth.
FW are, in their best moment, a flex choice. Something slightly exotic to show the pedigree of your pocket.
If anyone is looking to FW to win them games? That player has gone wrong somewhere.
Equally, if a given FW unit is key to any unusual and unexpected strategy? FW has gone wrong.
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2020/10/20 18:01:34
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Stormin' Stompa
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:FW has a tricky job.
In terms of the various kits and armies, their offerings shouldn’t be a patch, as in a way to cover a deliberate weakness of a given army.
Example. FW should never provide a deadly HTH unit for Tau. Or a super accurate unit for Orks. So on and so forth.
FW are, in their best moment, a flex choice. Something slightly exotic to show the pedigree of your pocket.
If anyone is looking to FW to win them games? That player has gone wrong somewhere.
Equally, if a given FW unit is key to any unusual and unexpected strategy? FW has gone wrong.
Back when FW flexing was dropping a super heavy on the table; when baneblades and knights were a rare sight.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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2020/10/21 14:11:02
Subject: Why are there so many things that Forge World units cant do?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I used baneblades pretty commonly in 3rd and 4th. They were pretty crap honestly... lol.
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