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Whilst the abysmally executed primaris fluff does a lot to feed the doomsaying and make playing 40k feel bleak, the “The most popular line is going to be squatted, any day now! You’ll see!” Conspiracy theory never held any credible weight and has been getting more ridiculous ever since.

More likely is that in 10th all marines get an extra attack and they stop pretending having extra genes rolled out keeps you from carrying old guns or wearing non-Mark 10 armour or getting in certain vehicles.

Conversely, I do fully expect them to do a “veteran company wave” of primaris the way they did for their scout wave, resulting in veteran intercessors being more cleanly defined from a no model no rules perspective and a more direct terminator equivalent than gravis (which is more like toned down centurion armour). I’ve expected this for a while, and bladeguard being painted in deathwing colours has made me even more convinced because releasing power armoured primaris deathwing due to lack of terminator models then a year later releasing terminators that could have kept the thematics intact if they hadn’t been impatient is the precise wavelength of predictable incompetence GW tend to work on when their lore and game departments scramble to explain new models.

Breton wrote:
I mean fluff wise, why would you make a first born and age them through to Terminaotrs when you can make Primaris?

The fluff is arbitrary. They can do whatever they want with it. They can say that recent adaptations allows for Primaris Marines to interface successfully with Terminator armour, allowing the highly experienced Veteran Primaris Marines to finally take their place among the storied heroes of the Adeptus Astartes' collective first companies.

Breton wrote:
There are a number of things they need to make for/out of Primaris before they can fully squat Firstborn, plus they need to sell off enough of the backstock to pay for melting down the unsold stuff into Primaris.

That's why First Born are still around, to sell that stock.

Breton wrote:
They need to make a fight/jump unit...

No they don't. That's what people want them to do, but they don't need to.

Breton wrote:
... they need Primaris Drop Pods.

Something tells me that a boring conical box that sits around and does virtually nothing and isn't appealing to customers because it sits there on the table and does nothing isn't something GW really wants to invest in a second time.

"Thanks to recent adaptations refined by Arch-Magos Cawl and his cabal of Tech-Priests, the Adeptus Astartes has been successful in interfacing Mk.X power armour with existing patterns of Drop Pods."

See how easy that was?

The fluff is arbitrary. Stop acting like the fluff is a roadblock to GW changing anything.

Breton wrote:
They need to update/replace a number of the non-Big Four Chapters special characters into Primaris.

No they don't. Legends!

Breton wrote:
The "Face f" every chapter needs to be Primaris before they can squat old marines. That means Shrike/Calgar/Tiggy/Mephy who already have, and that means Dante, Azrael, Logan, Vulkan Hestan, etc etc etc. who either need to go Primaris, or get added to/replaced by a Primaris designed to become said "face of the franchise" like potentially Tor Garadon, Adrax Agatone, etc.

Or they just kill them off in the fluff and have someone take their place. Happened with the Raven Guard and their Chapter Master.

And Primaris are the face of the franchise. They have been since 8th dropped. There's no danger of confusion with the old stuff.

changemod wrote:
Whilst the abysmally executed primaris fluff does a lot to feed the doomsaying and make playing 40k feel bleak, the “The most popular line is going to be squatted, any day now! You’ll see!” Conspiracy theory never held any credible weight and has been getting more ridiculous ever since.

It's not a conspiracy theory, and if you paid any attention to what people are saying in this thread you'd see that no one is saying "Any day now! You’ll see!".

In fact most of us are saying it's a slow process, and a measured and deliberate one, for reasons that I'm not going to bother to repeat. Just go read the thread.

There is also a another big reason why this is going to happen eventually. GW can't copyright space marine but they can copy right primaris marine.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

changemod wrote:
Whilst the abysmally executed primaris fluff does a lot to feed the doomsaying and make playing 40k feel bleak, the “The most popular line is going to be squatted, any day now! You’ll see!” Conspiracy theory never held any credible weight and has been getting more ridiculous ever since.

It's not a conspiracy theory, and if you paid any attention to what people are saying in this thread you'd see that no one is saying "Any day now! You’ll see!".

In fact most of us are saying it's a slow process, and a measured and deliberate one, for reasons that I'm not going to bother to repeat. Just go read the thread.

You’ve consistently been one of the worst voices for this, terribly sorry if you think I need to tweak the tone of my mockery of a long running and exhausting conspiracy theory.

Again, they’re moving more in the direction of minimising the difference, probably in part because they’ve realised having an extra adrenaline gland doesn’t disqualify you from holding a missile launcher and riding in a land raider.

changemod wrote:
You’ve consistently been one of the worst voices for this, terribly sorry if you think I need to tweak the tone of my mockery of a long running and exhausting conspiracy theory.

Again, they’re moving more in the direction of minimising the difference, probably in part because they’ve realised having an extra adrenaline gland doesn’t disqualify you from holding a missile launcher and riding in a land raider.

"Worse voices". Cute.

Of course they're minimising the differences for them. That's part of the process.

And stop calling it a "conspiracy theory".

It really does seem like GW is handling the transition well (even if I think they've released too many Primaris).

Once they fully get rid of firstborn marines (all models go away eventually), then they can easily be used as primaris equivalents. There will be some exceptions, of course. But right now you still get great rules.

If by your definition "folding them in" means "Making them competitively superior to primaris in most ways" then I...guess?

the only primaris units I think are arguable for at this point are Eradicators, because obviously, and the ones that compete with firstborn scouts.

Assault Intercessors over Blood Claws, Death Company, Vanvets? Pff, no thanks.

Intercessors over Sternguard? 1 point of AP, or access to Transhuman Phys - I'm taking the AP.

Aggressors over Terminators? Deep strike and 2+/5++ or 2 more shots and T5/3+? I think the former every time.

Mobility firstborn HQs were king before, are still king, mobility options are always superior to +1A +1W where you can get them.

I think you're still reaching for Incursors and Infiltrators for troops, maybe Eliminators are still worth the points but IDK, and yeah erads are busted, everyone knows that erads are busted.

What else is Primaris and is better than firstborn equivalents? Not outriders. not the spacemario kart. Not the garbagebrick that is the repulsor.

Nothing you said here makes any sense imo. Your ask what Primaris units are better than their FB equivalents, but you didn't actually compare the equivalents ...

Why would I take Intercessors over Sternguard? When is that ever an either/or choice, and when would that question realistically even come up? They do totally different things in completely different slots.

And comparing Termies to Aggressors? They are also not equivalents ... and if they DID actually compare favorably ... where are all the Terminator armies?

I'll give you this - particularly with the loss of "fly" the Primaris vehicles are struggling, but that's also marine vehicles in general ....

I think, as everyone else has pretty much already mentioned - the writing is on the wall for old marines. Someone mentioned that they "just got command squads", but that's not new and, IMO, giving them 2 wounds was more about getting CSM closer to par than it was about Old Marines sticking around.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

changemod wrote:
You’ve consistently been one of the worst voices for this, terribly sorry if you think I need to tweak the tone of my mockery of a long running and exhausting conspiracy theory.

Again, they’re moving more in the direction of minimising the difference, probably in part because they’ve realised having an extra adrenaline gland doesn’t disqualify you from holding a missile launcher and riding in a land raider.

"Worse voices". Cute.

Of course they're minimising the differences for them. That's part of the process.

And stop calling it a "conspiracy theory".

When you stop holding an elaborate theory for years, trying to explain how every development supports it despite it being against every public statement and common sense regarding profit motivation and their “models first” studio process, I’ll stop calling it a conspiracy theory.

Or if you wanna flip it, put it this way: When I stop sincerely considering it to be a conspiracy theory I will stop calling it what, from my perspective and I’m not sure why you’re struggling with that, is the most appropriate thing to call it.

And no, they aren’t giving space marines two wounds as part of a dastardly plot to somehow magically make people not care when they squat devastators and assault marines.

changemod wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

changemod wrote:
You’ve consistently been one of the worst voices for this, terribly sorry if you think I need to tweak the tone of my mockery of a long running and exhausting conspiracy theory.

Again, they’re moving more in the direction of minimising the difference, probably in part because they’ve realised having an extra adrenaline gland doesn’t disqualify you from holding a missile launcher and riding in a land raider.

"Worse voices". Cute.

Of course they're minimising the differences for them. That's part of the process.

And stop calling it a "conspiracy theory".

When you stop holding an elaborate theory for years, trying to explain how every development supports it despite it being against every public statement and common sense regarding profit motivation and their “models first” studio process, I’ll stop calling it a conspiracy theory.

Or if you wanna flip it, put it this way: When I stop sincerely considering it to be a conspiracy theory I will stop calling it what, from my perspective and I’m not sure why you’re struggling with that, is the most appropriate thing to call it.

And no, they aren’t giving space marines two wounds as part of a dastardly plot to somehow magically make people not care when they squat devastators and assault marines.

Your inability to see that Tactical Marines are going to eventually be moved to Legends does not mean everyone else that understands that is a conspiracy theorist. It will happen, and, like most people have repeated over and over, it will take some time(personally, I think they will be moved to Legends at the start of 10th Edition). They are releasing more and more Primaris kits that emulate the function of existing "first born" marines. They are bringing the stats of "first born" marines inline with Primaris. Just like H.B.M.C. has said(and probably others) the more similar the two marine types are the easier it will be to remove one from the game. You also keep going on about how it is about profits and such. Primaris Marines are the marines that are making them money at this point. Tactical Marines are old news. New players are not buying Tactical Marines in the same numbers that they are buying Primaris Marines.

This is all coming from someone who thinks the Primaris lore is atrocious, and who just started building and painting an all "first born" army during the pandemic. Just because I prefer the old style marines more doesn't mean that I cannot get to grips with the fact that they are going to be removed from the game at some point.

BrianDavion wrote:


you're making some pretty definative statements, got a line on the inside?

. Well I e got old codexes with command squads. As for the rest it’s logic.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Your inability to see that Tactical Marines are going to eventually be moved to Legends does not mean everyone else that understands that is a conspiracy theorist.

You realise it’s this kind of tone that makes you sound off, right?

I’m isolating this because it really should be clear what the problem is. You’ve pieced together what you think is going to happen, then you phrase it in the most exaggeratively objective tone possible and then go to lengths to come up with reasons counterevidence actually supports your point.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They just got 2 wounds. What else would you give them?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
We did just get a firstborn terminator chappy release right?

Terminators are far removed from what most would consider "First Born Marines", and you know that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Anyways, the squatting won't be something like 'boom! They're gone!' And it was never going to be. It will be a phased thing and GW may not explicitly state it but it's a pretty open thing so far. At any rate we have years to go, there are a lot of characters and options to primarisify.

People keep saying "They haven't done it yet!" as if it's proof that they're never going to do it.

As I've been saying since the W2 thing was first announced, you cannot remove the iconic Space Marine as we know it from 40K overnight, or even over the course of one edition. This is a very long term thing that will be done over multiple Codices. It might be the next Marine one, or perhaps the one after that. But it will happen.

Bumping their rules up is just the next step in this process. It makes them less distinct from Primaris, so their eventual removal won't be as a shock to the army.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Terminators are the only one I have no ideas on.

I think they'll keep Terminators. Ditto for the Land Raider.

I know terminators aren't iconic firstborn but the point is that it is a new marine model that is NOT primaris. As for the rest we are on the same page; I am saying the firstborn will be phased out slowly over a long period rather than suddenly cut. We agree on that.

changemod wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Your inability to see that Tactical Marines are going to eventually be moved to Legends does not mean everyone else that understands that is a conspiracy theorist.

You realise it’s this kind of tone that makes you sound off, right?

I’m isolating this because it really should be clear what the problem is. You’ve pieced together what you think is going to happen, then you phrase it in the most exaggeratively objective tone possible and then go to lengths to come up with reasons counterevidence actually supports your point.

Do you believe they will continue to produce first born kits forever? Do you forsee the sprues or kits being updated? How do you propose they continue to expand primaris alongside what is essentially a competing model line in the same book?

Business sense says they've recouped the costs and then some on first born, they can't sell them as easily now, so cut them out and push the new range which has some sales cannibalised by existing models they could do with not producing.

Surely we as a community won’t tolerate first born and primaris duel running forever. I think most people accept it’s a big change and it would be unfair for GW to retire 1000’s of Collected armies At the drop of a codex. But at some point it’s going to be in acceptable. SM have always had the biggest range of models but they are more than double the size of other armies choices if not triple

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

Your inability to see that Tactical Marines are going to eventually be moved to Legends . . .

Prove it.

Here's my thinking.

1. Release a brand-new Space Marine line with new unit designs, new sculpts, and stats that are The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm), but conceptually distinct and can augment current armies.

2. Flesh out this new Space Marine line such that it has equivalents or role-equivalents to everything in the old line that intends to be carried forward, while releasing no new units whatsoever for the old line. This is an ongoing process, through #5.

3. Advance all the well-known named characters to be part of this new Marine concept, with no continued rules support for their equivalents in the old line.

4. Upgrade the models in the old line to now have The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm) stats, narrowing the rules gap between the two. The difference, rules-wise, now comes down to equipment and organization.

(You Are Here)

5. Gradually increase the number of weapon options available to the new Marine line, providing some approximation of the flexibility of the old Marine line, as well as corresponding counterparts. At this point, fielding old Marines as new Marines becomes a viable option.

6. Release a new codex that only contains the new Marines. Release rules for the old Marines as non-tournament-legal Legends. Provide an official guide for how old Marines can be counted as new Marines for tournament purposes- at this point most units have direct equivalents, some can be shuffled around (maybe pluck the heavy weapons out to become their own squad), and only a few have no new counterparts.

Grognards can continue to play with their old units using the Legends rules, tournament players have official sanction to counts-as the new stuff, and new players have no reason to even look at the old line- which can then be gracefully phased out of production.

This has been my speculation since early in 8th and I'm sticking to it. I don't think it is anywhere near the level of 'conspiracy theory'. There are only so many ways to interpret the flagship faction suddenly getting zero releases overnight while its offshoot gets more attention than any other faction in the game.

Primaris have every indication of being a replacement for Firstborn (even down to the fluff), not a supplement- and GW has never, ever had a history of keeping around product lines that they've replaced. To think that this is a break from that history seems like a much less reasonable assumption than to think that at some point, Firstborn are going to be phased out.

 catbarf wrote:
Here's my thinking.

1. Release a brand-new Space Marine line with new unit designs, new sculpts, and stats that are The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm), but conceptually distinct and can augment current armies.

2. Flesh out this new Space Marine line such that it has equivalents or role-equivalents to everything in the old line that intends to be carried forward, while releasing no new units whatsoever for the old line. This is an ongoing process, through #5.

3. Advance all the well-known named characters to be part of this new Marine concept, with no continued rules support for their equivalents in the old line.

4. Upgrade the models in the old line to now have The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm) stats, narrowing the rules gap between the two. The difference, rules-wise, now comes down to equipment and organization.

(You Are Here)

5. Gradually increase the number of weapon options available to the new Marine line, providing some approximation of the flexibility of the old Marine line, as well as corresponding counterparts. At this point, fielding old Marines as new Marines becomes a viable option.

6. Release a new codex that only contains the new Marines. Release rules for the old Marines as non-tournament-legal Legends. Provide an official guide for how old Marines can be counted as new Marines for tournament purposes- at this point most units have direct equivalents, some can be shuffled around (maybe pluck the heavy weapons out to become their own squad), and only a few have no new counterparts.

Grognards can continue to play with their old units using the Legends rules, tournament players have official sanction to counts-as the new stuff, and new players have no reason to even look at the old line- which can then be gracefully phased out of production.

This has been my speculation since early in 8th and I'm sticking to it. I don't think it is anywhere near the level of 'conspiracy theory'. There are only so many ways to interpret the flagship faction suddenly getting zero releases overnight while its offshoot gets more attention than any other faction in the game.

Primaris have every indication of being a replacement for Firstborn (even down to the fluff), not a supplement- and GW has never, ever had a history of keeping around product lines that they've replaced. To think that this is a break from that history seems like a much less reasonable assumption than to think that at some point, Firstborn are going to be phased out.

So here's a question. If we get "Tactical Intercessors" which are 10 models with one Special, one Heavy, and a Sarge with the various equipment options. . . is that different than up-scaled Tactical Marines?

Seems like it would be a long and roundabout way to draw marine hobbyists into the upscaled marine line by the nose (and wallet) with Primaris. Which is going to be really funny if I have the same army, using the same old models, at the end of it.

Why would that be funny?
Wouldn't that be good for players (which you should care about) and bad for GW sales? (which you have no obligation to care about)

Voss wrote:
Why would that be funny?
Wouldn't that be good for players (which you should care about) and bad for GW sales? (which you have no obligation to care about)

Schadenfreude for everyone being strung along and buying a bunch of new models all to wind up back at the beginning, while I field the full "upgrade" at no cost.

 Insectum7 wrote:
So here's a question. If we get "Tactical Intercessors" which are 10 models with one Special, one Heavy, and a Sarge with the various equipment options. . . is that different than up-scaled Tactical Marines?

Aside from having the Primaris extra-special bolt weapons (and probably getting new, extra-special heavies and specials), nope.

I think there's a good chance that we'd never see a 'Tactical Intercessors' kit, though. More like an add-on kit of special/heavy weapons, similar to how thunder hammers are a valid option for sergeants, but need to be purchased separately. Newbies can build the simple mono-weapon configuration without experiencing the all-too-familiar story of loading up their Tacticals with useless options (and more importantly, the unit works with just the basic guns), but more experienced players have options. Scuttlebutt is that part of the reason for the Primaris line was to make a 'cleaner', simpler range that didn't have as many pitfalls for new players; they can have that while keeping the options by keeping the add-ons out of the basic box. I'll be very interested to see whether the Eradicators kit comes with a multi-melta, since AFAIK that's the first one-per-squad heavy weapon option in the Primaris range.

Or, it could just end up being that Primaris get special weapon squads and heavy weapon squads, and you'll be expected to separate out all your flamer guys into their own unit, all your missile guys into their own unit, all your plasma guns/plasma cannons become Hellblasters (Assault and Heavy variants respectively), and so on. You won't be able to field Primaris Tacticals, but you'll still be able to use your old models.

The very slow and cautious approach they've taken so far makes me skeptical that they'll just dump all Firstborn into Legends and say 'buy a new army, lol'. I expect them to offer a compromise where Firstborn are technically gone but the models can be fielded in some manner as their Primaris replacements.

I'm a narrative/ story guy, and given GW's use of stories and campaigns to further the narrative, when I first saw Primaris, I figured GW was laying the ground work for Heresy 2.0- Old Marine VS New.

If I was playing Marines, that's how I would run it; I'd have a Crusade of Old Marines, and once my supply rating caught up to the models I owned, I would start adding Primaris.

As the Crusade grows, the relative successes and failures of each sub faction on the battlefield would determine which camp the chapter would disavow, or who would most likely be seduced by the offer of power from chaos.

Then my Crusade would split and the civil war would begin, with all my other Imperial factions forced to pick a side.

The story potential for internal conflict presented by Primaris is just too good to squat one faction or the other without first using it as material.

We're starting to see Primaris only chapters now, which makes the story more ripe for the telling, especially assuming there are a handful of hold-out Old Marine Chapters that haven't yet accepted Primaris. I'm not enough of Space Marine fan to know whether there are such chapters- I only know about the Primaris only Chapters via White Dwarf.

 catbarf wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
So here's a question. If we get "Tactical Intercessors" which are 10 models with one Special, one Heavy, and a Sarge with the various equipment options. . . is that different than up-scaled Tactical Marines?

Aside from having the Primaris extra-special bolt weapons (and probably getting new, extra-special heavies and specials), nope.

I think there's a good chance that we'd never see a 'Tactical Intercessors' kit, though. More like an add-on kit of special/heavy weapons, similar to how thunder hammers are a valid option for sergeants, but need to be purchased separately. Newbies can build the simple mono-weapon configuration without experiencing the all-too-familiar story of loading up their Tacticals with useless options (and more importantly, the unit works with just the basic guns), but more experienced players have options. Scuttlebutt is that part of the reason for the Primaris line was to make a 'cleaner', simpler range that didn't have as many pitfalls for new players; they can have that while keeping the options by keeping the add-ons out of the basic box. I'll be very interested to see whether the Eradicators kit comes with a multi-melta, since AFAIK that's the first one-per-squad heavy weapon option in the Primaris range.

Or, it could just end up being that Primaris get special weapon squads and heavy weapon squads, and you'll be expected to separate out all your flamer guys into their own unit, all your missile guys into their own unit, all your plasma guns/plasma cannons become Hellblasters (Assault and Heavy variants respectively), and so on. You won't be able to field Primaris Tacticals, but you'll still be able to use your old models.

The very slow and cautious approach they've taken so far makes me skeptical that they'll just dump all Firstborn into Legends and say 'buy a new army, lol'. I expect them to offer a compromise where Firstborn are technically gone but the models can be fielded in some manner as their Primaris replacements.

Honestly? I won't play Marines without Tactical Squads and Rhinos, full stop. If I cannot field a "Tactical Squad" with a heavy and special, put it in a Rhino and have it be a mainstay of my army, I'm done with Marines. Putting all flamers, etc. into one squad won't cut it.

tneva82 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Oldmarines are being intentionally squatted, just at a slower pace than before due to backlash.

People have been saying this for 3 years. Gw keeps disproving them. But please. Do hold your　breath waiting　for it.

Rules support does not prove them wrong.

The lack of a single new kit for old marines proves them right.

Continued rule support for old marines makes good business sense. Squatting such a massive range in one fell swoop would be a misfire of epic proportions, and would remove a gigantic portion of GW's base. By supporting old marines in rules only they can ease them out gradually while continually shifting their left-over inventory because they're still worth buying from a rules perspective.

That just sounds like new kits for no real reason, though. At a time when quite a few folks are heartily sick of marine releases (with, lets not forget 4 more books, 6 multipart kits and another captain still to come other the next three months, though hopefully at least the kits get shoved out the door faster than that).

Rules support seems enough. A new oldmarine kit for the sake of just doing an oldmarine kit would be extra-offensive at this stage.

At this point Death Guard are the 'breath of fresh air' break from marines until January (hopefully the promised Xenos codex doesn't wait until February, though there will still be Dark angels with that as well). The world can't stand much more irony of that magnitude.

 catbarf wrote:
Here's my thinking.

1. Release a brand-new Space Marine line with new unit designs, new sculpts, and stats that are The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm), but conceptually distinct and can augment current armies.

2. Flesh out this new Space Marine line such that it has equivalents or role-equivalents to everything in the old line that intends to be carried forward, while releasing no new units whatsoever for the old line. This is an ongoing process, through #5.

3. Advance all the well-known named characters to be part of this new Marine concept, with no continued rules support for their equivalents in the old line.

4. Upgrade the models in the old line to now have The Way Marines Were Always Meant To Be(tm) stats, narrowing the rules gap between the two. The difference, rules-wise, now comes down to equipment and organization.

(You Are Here)

5. Gradually increase the number of weapon options available to the new Marine line, providing some approximation of the flexibility of the old Marine line, as well as corresponding counterparts. At this point, fielding old Marines as new Marines becomes a viable option.

6. Release a new codex that only contains the new Marines. Release rules for the old Marines as non-tournament-legal Legends. Provide an official guide for how old Marines can be counted as new Marines for tournament purposes- at this point most units have direct equivalents, some can be shuffled around (maybe pluck the heavy weapons out to become their own squad), and only a few have no new counterparts.

Grognards can continue to play with their old units using the Legends rules, tournament players have official sanction to counts-as the new stuff, and new players have no reason to even look at the old line- which can then be gracefully phased out of production.

This has been my speculation since early in 8th and I'm sticking to it. I don't think it is anywhere near the level of 'conspiracy theory'. There are only so many ways to interpret the flagship faction suddenly getting zero releases overnight while its offshoot gets more attention than any other faction in the game.

Primaris have every indication of being a replacement for Firstborn (even down to the fluff), not a supplement- and GW has never, ever had a history of keeping around product lines that they've replaced. To think that this is a break from that history seems like a much less reasonable assumption than to think that at some point, Firstborn are going to be phased out.

You're not going to see Tactical Intercessors. They're not going to do anything that encourages using old Tac Marines as new Intercessors. They want the model sales (and I don't blame them). They're PROBABLY not going to update all the current characters. Some they probably want to swap out into a new main character. Lysander may go Chapter Master, or he may not "survive" the operation especially if Tor Garadon really takes off in popularity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
That just sounds like new kits for no real reason, though. At a time when quite a few folks are heartily sick of marine releases (with, lets not forget 4 more books, 6 multipart kits and another captain still to come other the next three months, though hopefully at least the kits get shoved out the door faster than that).

From a certain perspective those folks should stop lumping all Marines together. Complaining about "4 more books" when your average Marine player is only going to care about one of them sounds like a problem for the complainer not the Marine player.

I find it amusing that the line of reasoning for first born being squatted is "the writing is on the walls", with no actual writing or information to go off of. Then when challenged, the defense is "just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't".

I do hope you all realize that means that none of us know anything about what will or will not happen to first born, and it's absolutely insane that anyone is getting pissy about people believing they will not be squatted. Since no one has any actual idea either way. They're just making up reasons in their head for them to stay or go.

The writing on the wall is the fact that they have released an entirely new line of space marine models. Why would they continue to produce two competing sets of the same army forever?

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
The writing on the wall is the fact that they have released an entirely new line of space marine models. Why would they continue to produce two competing sets of the same army forever?

because they continue to make money off both sets?

Why settle for only selling one marine army when you can sell two? GW clearly doesn’t care about redundancy. Not to mention, firstborn still have some of the most updated kits, among every faction. GW haven’t squatted old marines and GWs internal machinations are a mystery, so nothing is definite.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
The writing on the wall is the fact that they have released an entirely new line of space marine models. Why would they continue to produce two competing sets of the same army forever?

because they continue to make money off both sets?

But do you think it is indefinitely sustainable?