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What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

That could also be an indication they won't be in the 9th edition codex.

Ice_can wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

That could also be an indication they won't be in the 9th edition codex.

It better drop soon then cuz having 2 datasheets for the same unit can be a nightmare at sooo many levels.

I really would love not to buy this book...

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Yeah. That's typical. GW writes book dropping tons of units, people hate FW...umm...what?

You DO realize right this is not written by FW writers but by GW writers? Right? Why you are angry to FW who has had zero input with the book except provide stock art and maybe original rules if GW didn't simply write rules without even checking what unit did before(which could result in previously high rate of low powered shots weapon suddenly being premiere tank busting weapon in category of single powerful shot).

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Honestly, I always thought the ethical thing to do was to offer the Imperial Armor as a optional tome for collectors and people who have tons and tons of FW. But just give us the datasheet in the FW box... its a premium product after all and how many people own more then 1-5 units from forgeworld .... Sure some people, but its definitely not the majority of people. I hate buying this entire book for 3 datasheets...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am just saying. I am already buying a premium product, why not charge me just a little bit more and give me a datasheet with the model... They already convinced me into paying a crap ton for it, ill fork out the little bit more .

Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

The older, propper ia's did come with more lore then dexes...
The new indices , nope.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

Not the last release of IA or the one before it .... so unlikely... but I guess its always possible.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

Not since the GW rules team took over. Old FW books came with more lore than you could shake a stick at, though. Imperial Armor Volume 2 Second Edition is still my favorite lore source for Imperial Guard tank company organization, colouring, etc.

I expect maybe small little fluff blurbs on the side of the datasheets like in the new marine dex actually... but i wouldn't expect anything extensive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do people think the big things like the "cobra" D cannon are going to look like ? Also, should we expect "Macro" weapons to return ?

I hope big guns feel a little bit more devastating with the new rules. . . paying 650 pts to have what feels like 50/50 chance of destroying a big vehicle every turn stopped feeling worth it ,,, especially when paying 3CP on top of everything (talking aboot the cobra here).

What do other people think ?

I don't mind Macro as a category, but the double-damage-vs-superheavies felt kinda weird. A turbolaser hit can slag a knight (give or take ion shields) but not a land raider?

I'd far rather have some sort of general area effect - most of them will have blast, I assume, but some ability to hurt multiple close-packed small units would be good.

Ultimately, I'd like to be able to field a daemon Lord or a Scout Titan and put up a decent fight. I don't mind losing on objectives, etc, but the fact that at the moment most armies could bring down or cripple titan in a couple of turns means the biggest and most impressive models FW produces are literally pointless.

Subfactions and stratagems are unlikely (we've seen the index) since big stompy things will ve in superheavy auxiliary detachments but allowing for the fact they WONT get such things should be accounted for in the statline.

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Pft...

Yeah. Buy an entire book for a couple data sheets. No.

Go use Battlescribe for everything. GW is offering you a product at highway robbery prices for cost and quality. A product btw, that if the pattern holds will require an FAQ/Errata on release that has a pretty solid chance of invalidating some of the datasheets you would want to use. Why would ANYONE buy this book?

tneva82 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Yeah. That's typical. GW writes book dropping tons of units, people hate FW...umm...what?

You DO realize right this is not written by FW writers but by GW writers? Right? Why you are angry to FW who has had zero input with the book except provide stock art and maybe original rules if GW didn't simply write rules without even checking what unit did before(which could result in previously high rate of low powered shots weapon suddenly being premiere tank busting weapon in category of single powerful shot).

I think Xeno meant to say that's why HE hates fw.

locarno24 wrote:ISubfactions and stratagems are unlikely (we've seen the index) since big stompy things will ve in superheavy auxiliary detachments but allowing for the fact they WONT get such things should be accounted for in the statline.

And the price. LOWs are expensive enough, adding 3CP to their cost just feels like their piling on.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

 Dysartes wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

What is the point of showing up with a physical copy if it's invalidated a week later or a digital copy in an app that doesn't work?

If GW in any way provided a product that was at all useful I would agree with you. But they don't. You pay money for a paperweight.

It wasn't immoral to download music when it was being sold at 20.00 for a cd with 7 songs 6 of which you never heard before and doing it forced the music industry to change and provide easy avenues to access music at fair prices. Paying GW for these crap books is just perpetuating their production of crap books.

Increase of piracy will increase GWs need to move towards a sustainable technological model... just like it did in the music industry, news industry, film industry, television industry and as it did with other games like Warmahordes.

When it is more convenient and less intrusive not to pirate things, people will move to that model.

People would 100% pay for an ap as good as BS if it was provided by GW... this is proven by looking at other industries and other games that have built business models with this in mind.

GW knows how to make money using the print model... but honestly, they are behind the times even for their own indusrty and the more people pirating their work the more obvious becomes for them and thus the more likely they are to move forward and get with the times.

Honestly, I do buy all my books because I am a nerdy guy who loves my collectables, but logistically I do everything through BS.

You need to know what's in other codexes to play intelligently. If anyone were to actually buy all the books, that'd be more than $500 a year just for the rules to the game. It's not a reasonable price, and GW knows it. When you price the rules that high, of course they're going to be pirated rampantly.

They're obviously content with the status quo because they haven't made any real attempt to change it. Their app was a disaster and has been quietly swept under the rug completely; we're now 3 months overdue for the army builder. Until they start getting serious about entering the 21st century they will continue to have their rules pirated at very high rates, and they know that perfectly well. They don't need people to defend their honor on the internet or feel sympathy for them. They're big boys worth billions. A smarter company would just start releasing rules for free, or for a very nominal cost. It's plastic crack that makes their real money.

Ok here is the thing. Ive been drinking the GW koolaid when I started up int he hobby again ... I have bought the xenos Imperial armour and have been using wraithseer and shadow specter units from my army through out 8th ed (I also bought codex, BRB, index xenos, Ca, PA and probably more crap I dont even remember now..). Generally speaking I like books on my shelf but this is just getting stupid now.

The new book has less then half the entries for my army than what the smaller book had as well likely being nealry 3x the price whilst containing bunch of stuff I dont care about. At the least the old index was like £18 where free shipping was 40 so you could throw it on top of something you really wanted..

I only need 10 pages worth of data sheets/rules (realistically I need 3 data sheets for stuff I actually have and will be using). I gave a pass on the new CA. And by god was it a good call as it brought absolutely nothing of value.

So yeah, I really will not be supporting the idea it is okay to charge a lot of money for 10 pages of rules in a book which very likely will be out of date within two weeks due to errors/ Piss poor rules writing. Its madness that anyone would support this. If it was high quality rules with nice art & fluff that was not riddled with errors I would have considered it.

At this stage... nah.. I really not feeling it.

If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices.

I would happily drop $10 or so for legitimate ownership of rules and datasheets in digital format. I just plonked $9 for an RPG book for a game my gaming group is glancing at sidelong, and may or may not actually play, but I don't feel cheated, because it mostly contains the rules for the game. I will not drop $50 for a clunky physical edition of a handful of rules whose tacked-on full-color fluff and unnecessary model showcase I may or may not care about and whose rules will be so much arsepaper in between two months and two weeks. If GW is going to try and force a choice between paying those exorbitant fees for rules of ephemeral accuracy attached to a torrent of extraneous crap, or having you remain ignorant of the rules for the models you spent years on, then they can go screw themselves on their own Master-Crafted Heavy Primaris Executioner Incendus Catmolestus Bolt Riflecarbigun.

One thing not mentioned on the contents pages is the code for Warhammer 40,000: The App. Yes, you’ll be able to get all of these rules in the palm of your hand.

Also, every codex+supplement now gets these.

And steam's success wasn't solely because one could "purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices". It's that it was basically the only game in town and threw its weight around. I have physical games that required me to use Steam just to install them. And then we had the sales...oh god I shudder to think of how much I spent in those things.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices...

Not because it provided effective and hard-to-spoof DRM at a low cost to developers?

It's all good, whether or not people converted to steam because of the convivence or because they were gatekeepers to our games, GW is already a gatekeeper... they just aren't doing the convivence thing XD.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices...

Not because it provided effective and hard-to-spoof DRM at a low cost to developers?

I think it's totally reasonable to say that both of these were factors.

 Dysartes wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

Is not ilegal to download this stuff (Or in the case of Spain, the law cannot be applied without violating citizen's rights). It is illegal to sell or provide it.

In a capitalistic society companies are not only expected to do all kind of ""legal"" but inmoral stuff because they are there for the profit but they are also socially justified (GW themselves outsource production to china for many kits like scenery, and we all know in what conditions those workers are) like McDonalds making the math out to reach the conclusion that is more profitable to pay compensations for people burn out by their extremely hot coffe that saves then a ton of money because coffe at that temperature last much longer, but then, we as society have been educated to, as costumers, with a comparatively microscopic money budget in relation to any kind of company, behave in the most moral and legalistic ways always in our detriment.

Yeah, no. In a capitalistic society is completely moral to make the most out of your money. Legal grey areas are the base of multinationals. Don't be a fool, just play by their same rules, you are not stealing anything from the small shop of your town that barely makes ends meet.

And I know Dakkamods will come and blablabla we can't condone piracy. But I'm sorry, I'm just tired of fething moralistic nobodies coming down on normal people and then turning a blind eye on companies or worse, making the hypocrite claim that "of course what they do is bad but...!" and that but is followed by an implied "Thats what they are gonna do anyway, so we need to just shut the feth up"

Yeah the rhetoric here won't help fix the ghastly rules we been getting for years now because of that blind as hell support.

Using BattleScribe without owning all the books is piracy?

That's certainly a broad interpretation...