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Hey guys!

Can anyone tell me whats the difference between those two weapons in the new Space Marine Codex?
Both have: 24 Range, S4 and are Rapid Fire 2

So, is there an Error and one should actually be Assault 2 or why else would you have two weapons with the exact same profile in the book?

Greetings

Edit: Thanks for the replies guys!

There's no difference, has been like that for a while.

They are both functionally the same gun anyway, makes sense to have the same profile. Just have different names for historical sake.

Just one of many changes made to simplify some units and their loadouts (back in the days when they were being simplified, not as they are currently where it seems we need a new datasheet with every release and at least one special rule per datasheet).
Not a great loss, frankly, it didn't exactly make combi-bolters unusable or anything.

Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

"Combi-bolter" is only in the current Space Marine codex due to a couple of datasheets for units which are modeled with a combi-bolter instead of a storm bolter - Relic Terminators and the Contemptor Dreadnought.

The kits for these models were designed for use in the Horus Heresy setting, where storm bolters aren't a thing.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

Chaos rhinos (and predators, vindicators and land raiders) take combi-bolters.

Stormbolter vs combi-bolter is more a faction thing than a vehicle thing. For loyalists its a HH thing.

Combi-Bolter is mostly used by Chaos Marines still. It was used in the Heresy Era, before Storm Bolters which are *supposed* to be more advanced and better, were created or discovered.

Chaos still uses them because they've been stuck in the Eye of Terror. Both The Storm Bolter and Combi-Bolter are able to be vehicle mounted, or equipped by infantry. It's rarely found in use by Imperials because it's 'outdated' compared to the Storm Bolter.

Now, this is all fluff-related reasons. Rules-wise, I don't get why they didn't just turn all the few Combi-bolter totting models in to Storm Bolters. There's no reason to have a separate weapon entry, they're just identical.

 Thadin wrote:
Combi-Bolter is mostly used by Chaos Marines still. It was used in the Heresy Era, before Storm Bolters which are *supposed* to be more advanced and better, were created or discovered.

Chaos still uses them because they've been stuck in the Eye of Terror. Both The Storm Bolter and Combi-Bolter are able to be vehicle mounted, or equipped by infantry. It's rarely found in use by Imperials because it's 'outdated' compared to the Storm Bolter.

Now, this is all fluff-related reasons. Rules-wise, I don't get why they didn't just turn all the few Combi-bolter totting models in to Storm Bolters. There's no reason to have a separate weapon entry, they're just identical.

Because the players want options, duh!

I imagine it's just laziness, not to have a fake sense of choice.

Easier to just copy the unit entries rather than sensibly alter them. It doesn't make a big difference, whether it's listed as a storm bolter or a combi-bolter at the end of the day. There's no special rules or stratagems triggering off specifically those weapons iirc. Doesn't matter, but it IS one less superfluous weapon entry in the book I suppose.

As Voss said, Combi-bolter is really just the HH era version of the Storm Bolter and as such is only really in use on CSM models as of 40k. Everywhere you see a storm bolter on SM, the CSM equivalent can have a Combi-bolter there. Now obviously there are bound to be some old SM models with one or some SM characters still toting around their special Combi-bolter, but such a weapon would likely be a named chapter relic and as close to personal property as a SM can get.

I think the main reason that there are two entries for exactly the same stat weapons is that there is an actual model for each shown in both art and on the tabletop, thus GW keeps the copyright by maintaining the listing.

On a dark comedy note, this also leaves them the option to eventually buff SM even more by saying, "OH HEY! Remember how the Storm Bolter is supposed to be functionally better than its predecessor the Combi-bolter? What if we actually buffed our space boys even further by making it have a better stat line and/or special bonus?"

In the Horus Heresy ruleset, the Storm Bolter is distinct from the combi-bolter. The Combi-Bolter is a twin-linked Bolter, giving it rerolls to hit, while the storm Bolter is a rapid fire 2 Bolter, giving it twice as many shots.

Given a Marine's innate accuracy, the Storm Bolter is, actually, a marginal improvement on the Combi-Bolter.

But GW's current 40k rules are too shallow to have certain guns be more accurate than certain other guns...

 SergentSilver wrote:
On a dark comedy note, this also leaves them the option to eventually buff SM even more by saying, "OH HEY! Remember how the Storm Bolter is supposed to be functionally better than its predecessor the Combi-bolter? What if we actually buffed our space boys even further by making it have a better stat line and/or special bonus?"

I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen.

A long time ago, Stormbolters were the "improved" version of the Combi-bolters.

If I remember correctly, Stormbolters were Assault 2 while Combi-bolters were Rapid Fire 1. Stormbolters were used by loyalists while Combi-bolters were old heresy-era tech used by Chaos traitors.

Selfcontrol wrote:
A long time ago, Stormbolters were the "improved" version of the Combi-bolters.

If I remember correctly, Stormbolters were Assault 2 while Combi-bolters were Rapid Fire 1.

Pre-8th, Storm Bolters were Assault 2 vs Combi-bolters being a twin-linked Bolter(1 shot, Rapid Fire, re-roll hits).

 Platuan4th wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
A long time ago, Stormbolters were the "improved" version of the Combi-bolters.

If I remember correctly, Stormbolters were Assault 2 while Combi-bolters were Rapid Fire 1.

Pre-8th, Storm Bolters were Assault 2 vs Combi-bolters being a twin-linked Bolter(1 shot, Rapid Fire, re-roll hits).

And which one was better depended a lot on the edition. Rapid fire got a buff in every edition since 3rd, while assault remained mostly static.

In 3rd the storm was hands down better. 2 shots, at full range, all the time, even on the move. And you could charge if you wanted. Rapid fire was 2 shots at 12 or one at 24 if you stood still. If you moved it was just one at 12. Could not charge after shooting. Combi let you RR, but meh.

But in 7th at the end, the combi was slightly better up close (both got 2 shots out to 12”, but the combi got to re-roll misses) and the storm was better at long (combi got one shot, RRing misses, but the storm could potentially and two shots)

8/9th they are the same.

My head cannon was that combi bolters fired both barrels at once, while storm bolters rapidly fired alternating barrels

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

Chaos tanks take Combi Bolters.

So do archaic terminators.


The reason is entirely lore-based. The Combi Bolter is 2 bolters strapped together, and was a standard weapon of the crusade era covering pintle mounts and squad assault weapon and everything.

The storm bolter would be developed to replace the combi-bolter after the Horus Heresy, which is why chaos gets Combi Bolters and loyalists get Storm Bolters.

It used to be that the Combi Bolter was a twin-linked bolter [Rapid Fire 1, re-roll's to hit], and the Storm Bolter was Assault 2.

 Nevelon wrote:
But in 7th at the end, the combi was slightly better up close (both got 2 shots out to 12”, but the combi got to re-roll misses) and the storm was better at long (combi got one shot, RRing misses, but the storm could potentially and two shots)

At least as early as 5th where the double tap came in at 12", but in 6th the Rapid Fire range changed that to half the weapon's range. Not a difference for Bolters and Combi-Bolters, though.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
But in 7th at the end, the combi was slightly better up close (both got 2 shots out to 12”, but the combi got to re-roll misses) and the storm was better at long (combi got one shot, RRing misses, but the storm could potentially and two shots)

At least as early as 5th where the double tap came in at 12", but in 6th the Rapid Fire range changed that to half the weapon's range. Not a difference for Bolters and Combi-Bolters, though.

The Assault type made a bit of a difference for people who weren't Terminators (ex. PAGK, Battle Sisters, SM sergeants) since they could charge after shooting a storm bolter.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Assault type made a bit of a difference for people who weren't Terminators (ex. PAGK, Battle Sisters, SM sergeants) since they could charge after shooting a storm bolter.

True enough.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
But in 7th at the end, the combi was slightly better up close (both got 2 shots out to 12”, but the combi got to re-roll misses) and the storm was better at long (combi got one shot, RRing misses, but the storm could potentially and two shots)

At least as early as 5th where the double tap came in at 12", but in 6th the Rapid Fire range changed that to half the weapon's range. Not a difference for Bolters and Combi-Bolters, though.

The Assault type made a bit of a difference for people who weren't Terminators (ex. PAGK, Battle Sisters, SM sergeants) since they could charge after shooting a storm bolter.

Nobody was buying either though, so it really doesn't matter.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

historically speaking?
space hulk(1989) terminators with storm bolters say hi.

as others have said, the combi bolter is basically an invention of forge world for thier hh line as a "early" or "proto" storm bolter. before the HH stuff, chaos terminators used storm bolters like the loyalists. now, they've imported the combi bolter into regular 40k, but have given it the same stats (or rather, changed its stats to be the same after they got rid of twin linked weapons.

so its a "older in lore" weapon that is "newer in reality"

xerxeskingofking wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

historically speaking?
space hulk(1989) terminators with storm bolters say hi.

as others have said, the combi bolter is basically an invention of forge world for thier hh line as a "early" or "proto" storm bolter. before the HH stuff, chaos terminators used storm bolters like the loyalists. now, they've imported the combi bolter into regular 40k, but have given it the same stats (or rather, changed its stats to be the same after they got rid of twin linked weapons.

so its a "older in lore" weapon that is "newer in reality"

I've got a 3.5e Chaos Codex in front of me that gives Terminators and vehicle pintle mounts twin boltguns rather than storm bolters.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

historically speaking?
space hulk(1989) terminators with storm bolters say hi.

as others have said, the combi bolter is basically an invention of forge world for thier hh line as a "early" or "proto" storm bolter. before the HH stuff, chaos terminators used storm bolters like the loyalists. now, they've imported the combi bolter into regular 40k, but have given it the same stats (or rather, changed its stats to be the same after they got rid of twin linked weapons.

so its a "older in lore" weapon that is "newer in reality"

I've got a 3.5e Chaos Codex in front of me that gives Terminators and vehicle pintle mounts twin boltguns rather than storm bolters.

*looks up on internet*

huh, could have sworn those were storm bolters, but fair enough i stand corrected. i used to play back then as well, i should have remembered that.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But GW's current 40k rules are too shallow to have certain guns be more accurate than certain other guns...

Well, it's important that a marine with a stormbolter can be even more accurate because his captain is nearby or when your chapter master is yelling at you, right?

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Historically speaking, a Storm Bolter is a specific weapon that can be vehicle mounted. There is no option on any vehicle that I can think of, to take a "Combi-bolter". I think that is where the difference came from. Both the same profile, but one was a vehicle weapon, and one was a character option. In 7th(??) both became character options making the difference pointless.

historically speaking?
space hulk(1989) terminators with storm bolters say hi.

as others have said, the combi bolter is basically an invention of forge world for thier hh line as a "early" or "proto" storm bolter. before the HH stuff, chaos terminators used storm bolters like the loyalists. now, they've imported the combi bolter into regular 40k, but have given it the same stats (or rather, changed its stats to be the same after they got rid of twin linked weapons.

so its a "older in lore" weapon that is "newer in reality"

I've got a 3.5e Chaos Codex in front of me that gives Terminators and vehicle pintle mounts twin boltguns rather than storm bolters.

*looks up on internet*

huh, could have sworn those were storm bolters, but fair enough i stand corrected. i used to play back then as well, i should have remembered that.

Can confirm that Chaos Terminators had twin-linked bolter Combi-weapons in 2nd. Combi-bolters vs Stormbolters has nearly always been the differentiation between Chaos and Loyalists.

In the past a combi bolter was like 2 bolters glued together that could be fired separately, like a bolter-flamer combi is 2 weapons stuck together that can fire independently.

Storm bolter was like 2 bolters stuck together but fired at the same time rapidly at the same target.

I’m suprised GW changed it, seems unecessary

Space Marine Bikes have also been using Twin Linked Bolters since the old days. For some reason (probably the models), when the Rhino got updated to Storm Bolter from Twin Linked Bolters, Bikes didn't come along for the ride.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Space Marine Bikes have also been using Twin Linked Bolters since the old days. For some reason (probably the models), when the Rhino got updated to Storm Bolter from Twin Linked Bolters, Bikes didn't come along for the ride.

Probably because on the bike model it is two bolters mounted either side of the headlight, rather than taped together with duck-tape and held in one hand.