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 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Maybe they will see a bump in that, we currently don't know if they will get any rules at all in it. They could just be a narrative plot point with little or not actual power in it, especially so close after release of their new codex.

There’s more than just the background of an epic war zone in here, the book also includes new rules for:

Death Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus
Imperial Knights
Drukhari

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Maybe they will see a bump in that, we currently don't know if they will get any rules at all in it. They could just be a narrative plot point with little or not actual power in it, especially so close after release of their new codex.

There’s more than just the background of an epic war zone in here, the book also includes new rules for:

Death Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus
Imperial Knights
Drukhari

It's going to be interesting since Drukhari also get a codex right before or around when they release this campaign book. I wonder if this going to be trend to release a campaign book around the release of a codex

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Death Guard doesn't have any heavy infantry for example and have to rely exclusively on larger units like MPH and PBC to give them some firepower.

I might be mis-interpreting "heavy infantry" here, but by most standards both the Blightlords and Deathshrouds would qualify, especially if we assume +1W and possibly +1A for them.

I believe Eldarsif was refering to heavy [weapon] infantry rather than heavy [armour] infantry.
So like Devastators, Havocs, Retributors etc.

He'd have a point if Mortarion was not lazy for 10,000 years and actively leading a lot. Angron does gak all the time and he still has his Havoc squads.

He'd have a point if Mortarion was not lazy for 10,000 years and actively leading a lot. Angron does gak all the time and he still has his Havoc squads.

Because WE are currently rolled into the SMC Codex, thus why they have access to Havocs.

Wait until the WE Codex comes out and they lose access to both Havocs, Teeth of Khorne and this last one is also retconned

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Angron does gak all the time and he still has his Havoc squads.

Angron assigns his WE to havoc squads as punishment so they don't get to spill blood. It's well established lore.

Voss wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Doohicky wrote:


Can't see how that will work. Custodes are much faster and have much better standard weapons. Sticking an extra attack for CC does not make them even close to custodes.
You can see with Custodes the prevalent build is bike heavy as it's needed to be fast when such a small force.

Right, but we've seen like 1% of the codex so far?

Ha.
DG are a very small codex. At this point we've seen a lot of the units, or at least the major changes to a lot of the units (full statline for DG, just changes to possessed) and even a single unit is more than 1%.

But that's all we've seen - a smattering of stats. We don't even have full datasheets for any of the units you're talking about. I mean, just to rattle off a few things:

What does DR do?
Who all is CORE?
What are the new psychic powers?
What happened with points?
Are the Plague Companies included?
What changes are there to Hateful Assault/Malicious Volleys?
New strats
New relics
Statline changes
New character that supposedly buffs artillery

These are just a few questions that I can think of in the last 60 seconds. That's why I'm saying that us seeing a handful of statlines is largely useless to the grander conversation of how DG is or is not changing and whether those changes will affect how the army fundamentally plays.

Release has been delayed to early 2021 per WHC

The CORE question is rather easy to answer. You are right about all the rest though, but I'm not expecting too much in regards to relics or powers.
As for stratagems the more interesting question is which ones we get to keep, the tendency is more towards removing stratagems, not adding even more. For example, I expect VotLW to go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dendarien wrote:
Release has been delayed to early 2021 per WHC

Boo!

 Jidmah wrote:
The CORE question is rather easy to answer. You are right about all the rest though, but I'm not expecting too much in regards to relics or powers.
As for stratagems the more interesting question is which ones we get to keep, the tendency is more towards removing stratagems, not adding even more. For example, I expect VotLW to go away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dendarien wrote:
Release has been delayed to early 2021 per WHC

Boo!

Mortarions data sheet is up for download. Sorry can’t link but it’s right on the front page.

Surprised they took the route of leaving morty where he is points wise, it does suggest that DR is changed somewhat though given they liked 490 as a price point at t7.

Oh wait, full Mortarion datasheet

Dudeface wrote:
Surprised they took the route of leaving morty where he is points wise, it does suggest that DR is changed somewhat though given they liked 490 as a price point at t7.

Mortarion completely sucked at 490

Oh, and he aparently lost his Mortal wound aura

 Jidmah wrote:
Oh wait, full Mortarion datasheet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
Surprised they took the route of leaving morty where he is points wise, it does suggest that DR is changed somewhat though given they liked 490 as a price point at t7.

Mortarion completely sucked at 490

Oh I know his problems but GW were happy with him there for whatever reason, they don't usually slap notable changes on stuff as freebies though. Who knows maybe they're managing to admit to some mistakes.

Did you even read the datasheet? There is no way to know what he is worth right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More random thoughts:

The warlord traits he gets to pick in addition in addition to the one he has are the plague company traits. Which means plague companies are in the book.

Assuming that these don't change, the most interesting ones would be Gloaming Bloat (1-3 to wound always fail) and Eater Plague (heal up 3 wounds per phase by destroying models in melee).

 Jidmah wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Angron does gak all the time and he still has his Havoc squads.

Angron assigns his WE to havoc squads as punishment so they don't get to spill blood. It's well established lore.

Are their Obliterators a punishment too?

Oh wait no, these are just arbitrary differences to sell you a whole separate codex with little content!

 Dendarien wrote:
Release has been delayed to early 2021 per WHC

Christmas ruined...

Well, at least I can go buy some Star Wars Legion stuff now.

Mortarion:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/65cgr2Gr4FLhroGm.pdf

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Are their Obliterators a punishment too?

Oh wait no, these are just arbitrary differences to sell you a whole separate codex with little content!

No, death guard not having heavy weapons on infantry is well established lore, while WE not having ranged weapons is not.

And DG not having obliterators actually doesn't actually have a fluff justification at all. And now please stop the OT.

 Jidmah wrote:
Did you even read the datasheet? There is no way to know what he is worth right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More random thoughts:

The warlord traits he gets to pick in addition in addition to the one he has are the plague company traits. Which means plague companies are in the book.

Assuming that these don't change, the most interesting ones would be Gloaming Bloat (1-3 to wound always fail) and Eater Plague (heal up 3 wounds per phase by destroying models in melee).

They increased his stats, he keeps dr, even in the context of the current codex he got better. You can make an evaluation against what is currently available and known without all the extra gak they're giving them in the new rules.

He was 490 before, he's 490 now but better even without the extra rules aforementioned.

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Did you even read the datasheet? There is no way to know what he is worth right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More random thoughts:

The warlord traits he gets to pick in addition in addition to the one he has are the plague company traits. Which means plague companies are in the book.

Assuming that these don't change, the most interesting ones would be Gloaming Bloat (1-3 to wound always fail) and Eater Plague (heal up 3 wounds per phase by destroying models in melee).

They increased his stats, he keeps dr, even in the context of the current codex he got better. You can make an evaluation against what is currently available and known without all the extra gak they're giving them in the new rules.

He was 490 before, he's 490 now but better even without the extra rules aforementioned.

If DR goes to 6+, then he got worse against most weapons.He's 80% as durable as before with a 6+++ as compared to a 5+++.

So, against the following Strength values...

S1-3: 80% as durable
S4: 160% as durable
S5-6: 80% as durable
S7: 120% as durable
S8: 107% as durable
S9-13: 80% as durable
S14-15: 100% as durable
S16+: 80% as durable
Mortal Wounds: 80% as durable

Nurgle being delayed because of a plague is kind of funny.

I think the picture also confirms this as a two model release.

LoL.

Dudeface wrote:
He was 490 before, he's 490 now but better even without the extra rules aforementioned.

Can we just stop this? For every_single_leak, you claim the unit must become more expensive. Then people tell you it was over-costed before. You claim it was fine before, but deliver no proof for that assessment whatsoever. Rinse, repeat.

Units can become better without their point increasing. Because if you improve their stats and their points accordingly, they don't actually become better. DG clearly are in need of improvements.

So please either construct an argument why those units are properly costed right now, or stop.
And no, "GW knew what they were doing when costing them like they did" is not an argument, that's sarcasm at best.

So I am not seeing anything for Malicious Volleys or Hateful assault.

I think the Marine equivalent is part of Angels of death ability, which also has combat doctrines listed under it.

So maybe malicious volleys and hateful assault are listed under contagions of nurgle. Or under the remorseless ability. Although Mortarion is missing Remorseless.

Doohicky wrote:
So I am not seeing anything for Malicious Volleys or Hateful assault.

I think the Marine equivalent is part of Angels of death ability, which also has combat doctrines listed under it.

So maybe malicious volleys and hateful assault are listed under contagions of nurgle. Or under the remorseless ability. Although Mortarion is missing Remorseless.

Could just be rolled into army-wide rules not on the datasheet, too, especially as there's not really much in Nurgle that can take advantage of it that doesn't already have it.

I had assumed it would be part of an army wide ability similar to Space Marines which lists it under abilities of every datasheet, but you are right, we just don't know

It also looks like Death Guard is getting a bonus based on round number or something considering Mortarion's ability to count the round as number 4.

 Laughing Man wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So I am not seeing anything for Malicious Volleys or Hateful assault.

I think the Marine equivalent is part of Angels of death ability, which also has combat doctrines listed under it.

So maybe malicious volleys and hateful assault are listed under contagions of nurgle. Or under the remorseless ability. Although Mortarion is missing Remorseless.

Could just be rolled into army-wide rules not on the datasheet, too, especially as there's not really much in Nurgle that can take advantage of it that doesn't already have it.

Given he doesn't have any BOLT weapons, it's arguable that there's no point in Morty having Malicious Volleys (that was the equivalent to Bolter Discipline, correct?)

He is at +1A compared to the previous 'dex, so maybe HA is just baked in that way?

DttFE appears to have vanished completely, too - probably only a minor thing, but worth noting.

Also, no Ghaz rules on Morty.

I wonder how this will affect the DA release

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Also, no Ghaz rules on Morty.

This was most noticable to me. I am hoping there is some sort of damage reduction or something in Disgustingly Resilient, like a Duty Eternal for mutli-wound models or something.