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Disappointed that Contagions is mono-DG. I guess there is a chance that Nurglings are in the book as a selection, but my confidence level is low on that.

Now the question is, does VotLW remain or not?

Being able to deploy the terrain piece right into the middle of the board with a 9" aura straight off the bat could be interesting. Certainly would help the DG clear off units as they advance the first couple of turns.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Bloat drones move 10" and carry assault weapons, one of which Autohits and both happen to be the new sweet spot of S6. Can probably easily be getting them within 3" of whatever you want to get wounds through on in turn two.
They are going to be very useful with the new codex.

Blight haulers look good too. Park stuff to tag multiple units and you buff the rest of the army shooting those targets too.

It says excluding Unaligned units. Does anyone know what that means? Would a nurgle daemon ben unaligned as it's not a legion? Surely that could and hopefully does make sense? Or could it just mean units in the codex that don't have the DG key word (perhaps Poxwalkers won't). I'd say the synergy side depends on that word's breadth.

Seems like Morty's -1T range increased and that there may be other benefits with it all. I'm guessing the old Lord of Contagion mortal wound radius will also be one of these contagions.

Semper wrote:
It says excluding Unaligned units. Does anyone know what that means? Would a nurgle daemon ben unaligned as it's not a legion? Surely that could and hopefully does make sense? Or could it just mean units in the codex that don't have the DG key word (perhaps Poxwalkers won't). I'd say the synergy side depends on that word's breadth.

Seems like Morty's -1T range increased and that there may be other benefits with it all. I'm guessing the old Lord of Contagion mortal wound radius will also be one of these contagions.

No. Unaligned is usually the generic fortifications and some obscure stuff from Blackstone Fortress, etc.. It says so on the datasheet.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
Bloat drones move 10" and carry assault weapons, one of which Autohits and both happen to be the new sweet spot of S6. Can probably easily be getting them within 3" of whatever you want to get wounds through on in turn two.
They are going to be very useful with the new codex.

Blight haulers look good too. Park stuff to tag multiple units and you buff the rest of the army shooting those targets too.

Yeah I can see Blight Haulers moving to within 3" of enemy units on turn 2 as a sort of marker light for the rest of the army. That seems pretty neat.

 puma713 wrote:
Disappointed that Contagions is mono-DG. I guess there is a chance that Nurglings are in the book as a selection, but my confidence level is low on that.

It was rather clear that it would be mono-DG, wasn't it?

Now the question is, does VotLW remain or not?

I'm fairly convinced that it will not. I assume that most CP=Damage stratagems will go away.

I have a sneaking suspicion the campaign supplement will include Contagion substitutes.

Very important detail - this confirms that Hateful Blows is gone, and that the extra attack everyone got is only a very minor buff.

 Jidmah wrote:
Very important detail - this confirms that Hateful Blows is gone, and that the extra attack everyone got is only a very minor buff.

How does it prove that it's gone? These articles only covered changes and new rules.

Mortarion has no unknown rules left and if he doesn't want the Emperor dead, no one does

I like the contagions but it does feel top heavy if you get what I mean.

It's rarely useful turn 1 and but is crazy powerful later turns when things tend to be close to each other.

It does mean that if DG get to objectives then other armies will be reluctant to get in close until they are sure a charge will clear out the DG unit.
Foul Blightspawn(If they still keep their rules) will be very useful now to stop mass charges.

Overall DG are very powerful in CC. No denying that, but I think their weakness is certainly anything that can skirt around and shooit them down. Unless DG can catch something in CC then outside of Daemon engines they don't have good enough firepower.

This is very much a case of wait and see what the points are. It could be very important

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion has no unknown rules left and if he doesn't want the Emperor dead, no one does

Could be an army wide rule instead of a datasheet one. They could even keyword lock it. We don't have proof it's gone yet.

DttFE being gone and hateful assault being rolled into the profile I'm fine with (Assuming the latter doesn't add points)

I am not a fan of any rules that target a specific army type, even though DttFE helped me many times. Other examples which are fluffy but completely unbalanced include the Vengence for cadia strat and the anti daemon smites of GKs.

I hope they all go

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Honestly I like it. Makes enemy melee more skittish about coming in range, makes DG better vs T7-8 since they can hit S6 and 8 pretty easy and might give Rhinos a places as a cheap troop hauler that casts an aura after dropping off it's cargo making the cargo's shooting stronger.

But you lose access to all Allies for this rule and DG is SLOW as hell without making use of few Nurgle Daemon units (*cough* Nurglings)
Totally not convinced

There has to be some penalty for taking allies.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion has no unknown rules left and if he doesn't want the Emperor dead, no one does

Could be an army wide rule instead of a datasheet one. They could even keyword lock it. We don't have proof it's gone yet.

Army wide rules are also on datasheets in 9th. It's not in the faction rules (inexorable advance), it's not in the doctrine (contagions) and it's not on the datasheet. Which simply means he doesn't have it anymore and got an extra attack to compensate.

 Jidmah wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion has no unknown rules left and if he doesn't want the Emperor dead, no one does

Could be an army wide rule instead of a datasheet one. They could even keyword lock it. We don't have proof it's gone yet.

Army wide rules are also on datasheets in 9th. It's not in the faction rules (inexorable advance), it's not in the doctrine (contagions) and it's not on the datasheet. Which simply means he doesn't have it anymore and got an extra attack to compensate.

So the real question is if the rest of the DG will be getting it or not.

EDIT: I know it's possible it'll be gone. I'm just not jumping on the doom train. Too busy jumping on the Dark Eldar train and already annoyed by how ineffectual Incubi will be against DG.

 Jidmah wrote:
Mortarion has no unknown rules left and if he doesn't want the Emperor dead, no one does

"Inexorable Advance is a Detachment ability, which means that it applies to units in Battle-forged Death Guard Detachments."

Inexorable advance isn't going to be listed on sheets, but applies to detachments. Previously it was army wide. So we really have no idea what is or isn't going to similarly apply there with regards to DTTFE, Hateful Assault, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm feeling confident that CSM and Cult Marines are being made into pseudo Primaris equivalents and DEFINITELY NOT tactical marine equivalents. Tacs are getting slowly dustbinned. So the extra attack is for equivalency and I'm of the opinion that Hateful Assault will be a detachment rule.

Inexoriable Advance is the legion trait, which is written in a way that you lose it when you mix daemons and DG in one detachment. It's also already a collection of abilities, and there is no reason for them to have a second one. We also have confirmation that Malicious Volleys will be on the datasheets, so there is no reason for Hateful Blows to not be on Mortarions datasheet.

But this isn't the first time people are ignoring overwhelming evidence because there is a sliver of a chance left that they might be right anyways, so you do you.

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Honestly I like it. Makes enemy melee more skittish about coming in range, makes DG better vs T7-8 since they can hit S6 and 8 pretty easy and might give Rhinos a places as a cheap troop hauler that casts an aura after dropping off it's cargo making the cargo's shooting stronger.

But you lose access to all Allies for this rule and DG is SLOW as hell without making use of few Nurgle Daemon units (*cough* Nurglings)
Totally not convinced

There has to be some penalty for taking allies.

There is. You pay CP for them. There doesn't need to be any more.

It's GW's usual over correction. Soup was an issue in the previous edition because, as usual, people have to find that one or two power builds and abuse it and then everyone has to have a huge cry about it because... well i'm not sure (this is why we can't have nice things). Now using allies removes army benefits and costs CP which has made it pointless? I'd like to use it but even in a fun game, why would I intentionally hamstring myself? It can sometimes be fun to set up an uphill battle but it shouldn't really be that for these sorts of things.

Unless the new Dexs really give us some sort of mix up that it better than an army wide -1T and worth at least 2CP. I'm immensely disappointed by that as I don't see how Nurgle daemons, for example, would stop the Death Guard having contagions? (I'm not sure how Khorne daemons would other than Nurgle purposefully spiting his warriors, but that aside). I'm still holding on hope that there will be a special rule to let Daemons of the same god not nullify CSM doctrine level abilities. As CSM having access to Daemons but only through being overly-penalised like that is just stupid.

 Jidmah wrote:
Inexoriable Advance is the legion trait, which is written in a way that you lose it when you mix daemons and DG in one detachment. It's also already a collection of abilities, and there is no reason for them to have a second one. We also have confirmation that Malicious Volleys will be on the datasheets, so there is no reason for Hateful Blows to not be on Mortarions datasheet.

But this isn't the first time people are ignoring overwhelming evidence because there is a sliver of a chance left that they might be right anyways, so you do you.

You can also choose to be super salty about what isn't true yet. It's "a" detachment ability, possibly not the only one. It's not a legion trait anymore, despite having been one previously.

Where is Malicious Volleys mentioned as being on data sheets?

The only full datasheet we've seen so far is Morty, and he has no way to take advantage of it, so it appears to have been left off him.

Unless it is also a detachment ability along with Hateful Assault.

I can see where people are coming from on both sides, I think the only reason that we might still see Hateful Assault as detachment ability is because it would apply to almost every unit in the codex, where as Malicious Volleys only applies to two non-vehicle datasheets, and potentially a couple generic characters if we still have them.

It doesn't apply to dreadnoughts or bikes anymore meaning that having it as a detachment ability would be odd. Makes sense to me that it's on datasheets if ~5 units out of the codex will benefit, especially since only 2 would be DG specific (technically 1 as PM can be taken by standard CSM).

That's just my 2 cents though. Also, Cult legions are supposed to be veterans right, or mainly comprised of such? Standard marine vets have 2A base plus SA, so it's not too far fetched to say that DG might get it. Especially since we've only seen the datasheet of a Primarch and a FW daemon engine for reference (Beyond the stat line and weapon profile).

In conclusion, I think ts a 40/60 chance that we see it, but I see no overwhelming evidence either way.

Quick question.

Is this a DG hellbrute or some sort of conversion?
It looks familiar. but not something ive seen being sold recently.

 Argive wrote:
Quick question.

Is this a DG hellbrute or some sort of conversion?
It looks familiar. but not something ive seen being sold recently.

Its a conversion of a normal helbrute

 Jidmah wrote:
Inexoriable Advance is the legion trait, which is written in a way that you lose it when you mix daemons and DG in one detachment. It's also already a collection of abilities, and there is no reason for them to have a second one. We also have confirmation that Malicious Volleys will be on the datasheets, so there is no reason for Hateful Blows to not be on Mortarions datasheet.

But this isn't the first time people are ignoring overwhelming evidence because there is a sliver of a chance left that they might be right anyways, so you do you.

"Overwhelming evidence" = one datasheet who may have traded it for always having that extra attack bonus and a lack of being mentioned in articles talking about new and changed rules.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Inexoriable Advance is the legion trait, which is written in a way that you lose it when you mix daemons and DG in one detachment. It's also already a collection of abilities, and there is no reason for them to have a second one. We also have confirmation that Malicious Volleys will be on the datasheets, so there is no reason for Hateful Blows to not be on Mortarions datasheet.

But this isn't the first time people are ignoring overwhelming evidence because there is a sliver of a chance left that they might be right anyways, so you do you.

"Overwhelming evidence" = one datasheet who may have traded it for always having that extra attack bonus and a lack of being mentioned in articles talking about new and changed rules.

Not to mention, Inexorable advance having multiple abilities is the same as chapter tactics that have multiple abilities, and given that marines also have Angels of Death, an ability that has a collection of abilities, it's well within reason to speculate that Hateful Assault is a detachment ability. This, in addition to my previous points.

Really wish I was a good enough painter to produce those beige Plague Marines.

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
You can also choose to be super salty about what isn't true yet. It's "a" detachment ability, possibly not the only one. It's not a legion trait anymore, despite having been one previously.

I wasn't aware that applying logic and being realistic is considered being salty
Hateful blows has been transformed into a flat +1A unless GW suddenly made it a detachment trait for no reason whatsoever, breaking not only with the previous edition, but also with the implementation of shock assault.