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Eldenfirefly wrote:
LOV might be good in combination with Deathshrouds. Their flamer gauntlets likely got a buff based on the point increase and are plague weapons.

They have gotten 12" range, but remained unchanged otherwise. Even for a full unit with the extra flamer on the champion (which is 5pts now), you are looking for 4 wounds with AP improved from 0 to -1.

Another possible combination would be with Bloat drones. He makes those plague splitters better, and bloat drones are units that want to be up close anyway, so it works out. Maybe deep strike him in on second turn in the middle of a trio of bloat drones and then they all flame stuff. (sorry, this only works if Bloat drones are core)

He also can advance up behind Plague Burst Crawler/s with plague splitters that are moving up to midboard. Then he will give the long range mortars as well as those plague splitters +1 AP, and he himself will serve as a combat deterrant to people who want to get close and tag a PBC. (sorry, this only works if PBC are core). lol

That is assuming that daemon engines will be CORE. Not impossible, but it would seem odd when regular marines got all their vehicles not have the keyword.

The strategems relentless volley (make combi bolters rapid fire 3) and virulent rounds that turns bolters into plague weapons are probably in this new codex. So, the LOV can deep strike or just move up the board together with 10 combi bolter blightlords and they can now rapid fire 60 shots which are plague weapons and -1AP to boot.

Virulent Rounds already makes sixes AP-4, so the LoV would not be needed.

RobouteNurgleman wrote:

 BleachHawk wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
I really hate losing FNP!
It sucks ass for everone not playing against marines. But it seems like everyone is, so I guess I just have a sucky meta now.

Same here. I try not to get my hopes up that the Surgeon will actually provide something against D1 weapons.

At first I was disappointed in losing it as well, but the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. With DG's high toughness and good saves, they will already be a lot harder to wound with most 1 damage weapons. Then once you consider things like the extra wounds and contagions of nurgle, losing the FNP starts to feel a little more fair. Our Terminators essentially have 6 wounds against any weapons that aren't D1, which feels pretty strong to me honestly. Some rebalancing seems important for DG, I haven't lost a single game since war of the spider dropped and they were starting to feel a little OP at times.

I agree that considering the new rules and stuff an FNP would have been too tood. But that doesn't mean I'd rather have 1 wound and 5+ FNP instead of "failing armour save = death. Mortal wounds = death."

I felt they were in a good place. They were not too strong. Just look at the tournament scene. Not very DG heavy.
However, I also havent lost a single game with DG since 8'th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

eldarian wrote:
So after years of only playing Eldar, I'm going to start death guard.
Is the start playing box worth the money according to the veterans (of the long war) here?

IMHO no. But then again, I hate playing with poxwalkers. As stated above, get your hands on the DG half of the Dark Imperium box.
However, if you prefer to play horde with a lot of useless bodies, then the new box is great!

In my standard list (pre new codex) I run Deathshrouds, Bloatdrones, Blighthaulers, Marines (one CC unit), Tallyman, DP, a sorc or two of some kind, a Rhino and/or Mortarion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
LOV might be good in combination with Deathshrouds. Their flamer gauntlets likely got a buff based on the point increase and are plague weapons.

LOV buffs them, and just happens to carry flamer weapons himself. Also, he wears ancient terminator armor. So, he can deep strike in together with the deathshrouds.

Sadly, they are still S3 AP0 1D.

 Jidmah wrote:

The strategems relentless volley (make combi bolters rapid fire 3) and virulent rounds that turns bolters into plague weapons are probably in this new codex. So, the LOV can deep strike or just move up the board together with 10 combi bolter blightlords and they can now rapid fire 60 shots which are plague weapons and -1AP to boot.

Virulent Rounds already makes sixes AP-4, so the LoV would not be needed.

AP-5 is an improvement over AP-4, though the number of targets where this would make a difference is probably minimal.

 Jidmah wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
LOV might be good in combination with Deathshrouds. Their flamer gauntlets likely got a buff based on the point increase and are plague weapons.

They have gotten 12" range, but remained unchanged otherwise. Even for a full unit with the extra flamer on the champion (which is 5pts now), you are looking for 4 wounds with AP improved from 0 to -1.

Another possible combination would be with Bloat drones. He makes those plague splitters better, and bloat drones are units that want to be up close anyway, so it works out. Maybe deep strike him in on second turn in the middle of a trio of bloat drones and then they all flame stuff. (sorry, this only works if Bloat drones are core)

He also can advance up behind Plague Burst Crawler/s with plague splitters that are moving up to midboard. Then he will give the long range mortars as well as those plague splitters +1 AP, and he himself will serve as a combat deterrant to people who want to get close and tag a PBC. (sorry, this only works if PBC are core). lol

That is assuming that daemon engines will be CORE. Not impossible, but it would seem odd when regular marines got all their vehicles not have the keyword.

The strategems relentless volley (make combi bolters rapid fire 3) and virulent rounds that turns bolters into plague weapons are probably in this new codex. So, the LOV can deep strike or just move up the board together with 10 combi bolter blightlords and they can now rapid fire 60 shots which are plague weapons and -1AP to boot.

Virulent Rounds already makes sixes AP-4, so the LoV would not be needed.

Only sixes makes it AP-4, the rest of the wounds you would appreciate the AP -1. Unless you are shooting stuff that you only wound on sixes...

The aura also only improves the AP on sixes.

Death Guard on Crusade

Yayyyy More random upgrades that will actually be bad for you.

Cause only random stuff is fun in chaos

Doohicky wrote:
Yayyyy More random upgrades that will actually be bad for you.

Cause only random stuff is fun in chaos

it's also really fun in regards to Nurgle beein stagnation and cycle, not just lol randumb aka tzeentch.

Chaos boons? Really? Can't they figure out that chaos players hate the boon table?

I love it ;(
A LoC moving 7" or a plague surgeon turning into a daemon prince have been game winning for me.

 Jidmah wrote:
I love it ;(
A LoC moving 7" or a plague surgeon turning into a daemon prince have been game winning for me.

There's a difference between a working boontable with conditions and table before something even starts, so to speak that is in essence just MAYBEE something happens...

Courtesy of Reddit :

- 100% confirmed leaks:

Poxwalkers and cultsits can only be taken on a 1 to 1 relationship with other core infantry units. Bring two squads of plague marines? then the max poxwalker squads you can bring is 2.
Lords and Demon Princes can only be taken once in a detachment
Monstrous resilience is a rule that gives the unit -1D. Not clear exactly how this rule applies at the moment but looks like its a warlord trait.

- Not 100% confirmed but apparently from the same source:

Mortarion has a 5+++, shuts downs enemy aura buffs within 3" and classic arch contaminator within 6".
The plague companies give 1 relic, warlord trait and stratagem.

I'm fine with all those. Wonder if that will mean LoV and LoC can't be in same detachment though

If true about Morty that makes him a proper monster and theoretically worth taking, maybe even cheap.

So, Mortarion moves 12", is T8 with a 3+/4++/5+++ and -1 damage. Can shut down enemy auras within 3", can reduce enemy T by 1 within 9" and can take another contagion ability, like halving movement within 9". He's pricey at 490, but man he's starting to sound like an auto-include.

Wellp, instead of addressing the issue, GW once again used the bandaid and hammer method.

Hold on... that Diseased minions rule.

Does that not mean that the combat patrol box is not a legal formation?
Unless Typhus allows that rule to be broken.

 Jidmah wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
LOV might be good in combination with Deathshrouds. Their flamer gauntlets likely got a buff based on the point increase and are plague weapons.

They have gotten 12" range, but remained unchanged otherwise. Even for a full unit with the extra flamer on the champion (which is 5pts now), you are looking for 4 wounds with AP improved from 0 to -1.

Another possible combination would be with Bloat drones. He makes those plague splitters better, and bloat drones are units that want to be up close anyway, so it works out. Maybe deep strike him in on second turn in the middle of a trio of bloat drones and then they all flame stuff. (sorry, this only works if Bloat drones are core)

He also can advance up behind Plague Burst Crawler/s with plague splitters that are moving up to midboard. Then he will give the long range mortars as well as those plague splitters +1 AP, and he himself will serve as a combat deterrant to people who want to get close and tag a PBC. (sorry, this only works if PBC are core). lol

That is assuming that daemon engines will be CORE. Not impossible, but it would seem odd when regular marines got all their vehicles not have the keyword.

The strategems relentless volley (make combi bolters rapid fire 3) and virulent rounds that turns bolters into plague weapons are probably in this new codex. So, the LOV can deep strike or just move up the board together with 10 combi bolter blightlords and they can now rapid fire 60 shots which are plague weapons and -1AP to boot.

Virulent Rounds already makes sixes AP-4, so the LoV would not be needed.

Wouldn't be surprised if DG specific Daemon Engines received CORE but the Defiler and other vehicles would not. I mean, it would be slightly odd if a supposed artillery specialist like the LoV wouldn't be able to buff PBCs... but on the other hand, it wouldn't be the first thing that doesn't make sense at all.

Games Workshop wrote:Ever a fan of the number three, these gifts granted by Nurgle are rolled on a D33...

Surely GW, you mean the number 7, right?

Pandabeer wrote:


Wouldn't be surprised if DG specific Daemon Engines received CORE but the Defiler and other vehicles would not. I mean, it would be slightly odd if a supposed artillery specialist like the LoV wouldn't be able to buff PBCs... but on the other hand, it wouldn't be the first thing that doesn't make sense at all.

I'm with you in the hope. I don't think it is likely unfortunately, but one thing gives me a sliver of hope that they will get core that's the diseased minions rule above.
It specifies core bubotic astartes infantry. I have to think the infantry is there for a reason. Unless it's just Helbrutes it's to distinguish from

Doohicky wrote:
Hold on... that Diseased minions rule.

Does that not mean that the combat patrol box is not a legal formation?
Unless Typhus allows that rule to be broken.

1 squad of PM and one squad of 30 poxwalkers? ( no idea if legal)

Hmmm, if true, I am starting to think Morty might be getting dusted down. He's beginning to sound like a beast.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Games Workshop wrote:Ever a fan of the number three, these gifts granted by Nurgle are rolled on a D33...

Surely GW, you mean the number 7, right?

Both 3 and 7 are fine. 3 is the symbol of the fly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lare2 wrote:
Hmmm, if true, I am starting to think Morty might be getting dusted down. He's beginning to sound like a beast.

Well, it now takes two maxed out eradicator squads to kill him

Not Online!!! wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Hold on... that Diseased minions rule.

Does that not mean that the combat patrol box is not a legal formation?
Unless Typhus allows that rule to be broken.

1 squad of PM and one squad of 30 poxwalkers? ( no idea if legal)

Based on the 2021 points document, poxwalkers cap at 20. So as it stands, it isn't legal.
GW gonna GW...

Not entirely happy with the 'But thou must' rules for army building. Though I suppose it isn't as bad as inflating the points of cheap units...

What has monstrous resilience? I haven’t seen anything with that rule yet. Does it stack with disgustingly Resilient?? It would seem odd if it didn’t.

broxus wrote:
What has monstrous resilience? I haven’t seen anything with that rule yet. Does it stack with disgustingly Resilient?? It would seem odd if it didn’t.

Reddit seems to be torn between a warlord trait or an ability for helbrutes. No one knows for sure.

As worded, it stacks.

Ya my guess would be the mirror trait for the loyalist dreads, but in this case slightly better because it can stack.

Buffs to DG Chaos Lord made them more useful, cap on per detachment makes it less viable to park a few next to your PBCs for artillery with rerolls. Curious to see what buffs the LOV actually brings and if he'll be a better artillery commander. He'll certainly be more expensive.

So many uncertainties about the codex it's gonna be interesting when reviews go up tomorrow.

If Monstrous Resilience is the Helbrute equivalent to Duty Eternal that will be odd. The Chaos dreads in the FW book already have Duty Eternal called Relentless Hatred so not sure it needs yet another name for DG.

I just find it unlikely that Helbrutes would get both DR and the equivalent of Duty Eternal, but then it's odd that loyalist Dreads get both -1 damage and their chapter tactics, doctrines etc.

Something that could be interesting is if we see Helbrutes with a <dreadnought> keyword to cut down the confusion between the unit name and keyword and explain why the new FW book neglected it again like in 8th.

If that is the case, and DR works on all infantry, characters, dreadnoughts then that will automatically include the FW dreads. That seems horrifically strong but then if they don't I can't see them ever being worth taking.

As for daemon engines getting core. It's not completely impossible to imagine that the smaller DEs get core but the PBC doesn't. There's precedent for that with Contemptors having core and Leviathans not.

Voss wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Hold on... that Diseased minions rule.

Does that not mean that the combat patrol box is not a legal formation?
Unless Typhus allows that rule to be broken.

1 squad of PM and one squad of 30 poxwalkers? ( no idea if legal)

Based on the 2021 points document, poxwalkers cap at 20. So as it stands, it isn't legal.
GW gonna GW...

Not entirely happy with the 'But thou must' rules for army building. Though I suppose it isn't as bad as inflating the points of cheap units...

GW gonna be GW indeed.
FFS i thought they' d have allready worked in the fething editor they recently hired.

Also these "artificial limits" are more often then not an admitance of defeat in understanding of the issues at hand in correlation of the rules environment provided.



_____________


otoh these patoghens for the heretic astartes and champions / HQ is an interesting concept.
I do hope they tested them accordingly but as a concept it's unique and propper.
Shame on the randumb for crusades though.