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Mostly good stuff, I don't like the change with needing plague marines and the like to take pox walkers. I see why they are doing this as the marines are good so they aren't exactly a bad pick cost wise and GW demand you have some elite guys there.

I don't really mind but I am sorry for all those who only wanted to field zombies.It kinda sucks GW does that, it's like they do like to punish you for building a specific list. The only safety comes in having all the possible choices in moderate amounts.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Welp. My chod hoard army is illegal now. Thanks GeeDubs.

Since it's a DG detachment ability that adds the restriction, one way to get around it is to include a non-Death Guard model in your detachment and run your army using the Nurgle keyword.
Just a single unit, and bam! You do miss out on Inexorable Advance (and the stratagems unless you take a seperate DG detachment alongside), but if you're running mass pox-walkers you probably only have a few units that would benefit from it in the first place.

TBH GW did the same with Loyalist marines nuking Scouts from orbit. GW clearly wants their marine factions to USE marines.

Yeah but scouts are still Marines just not in power armor. That scout nuke felt more like they didn't want people taking cheaper options and loading up on more exciting choices.

Which, is pretty much what this is as well. However if I had to deal with you need a unit of plagues to take a unit of zombies I'd say that's a better solution than just sending them into a whole new slot.

So I guess DG got off better than say a marine player who ran a full 10th company with scouts all over, and yes I have a friend who had such a thing and he was pretty pissed off, for correct reasons.

Eh I support the push for fluffy armies personally. All zombies might have been fun but it was never true DG, since DG proper is all about PM and/or Termies. I personally don't mind this push for more fluffy armies, it's better than their rule forcing us to paint minis.

 Galas wrote:
TBH GW did the same with Loyalist marines nuking Scouts from orbit. GW clearly wants their marine factions to USE marines.

Then why not just make the base unit good?

Yeah I suppose so but they also take two steps forward and one back with fluff on armies. Like keeping a DG army mostly Plagues is great but not having demons more openly in use outside some plague engines doesn't feel as fluffy, and as they did this with pox walkers they could have easily done that with nurgle demons in the codex as well, further making little sense why they didn't just include them in the army as units you could use just with limitations.

The poxwalkers set the precedent for that kind of limitation now.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
TBH GW did the same with Loyalist marines nuking Scouts from orbit. GW clearly wants their marine factions to USE marines.

Then why not just make the base unit good?

It looks like both poxwalkers and plague marines will be good units with their own uses. So clearly it is not about that.

It appears that Adrian and Brian from Tabletop Titans got their copy of Codex: Deathguard early.

They are doing a batrep at their usual Saturday time of 2PM Central Time here in the US. It's a matchup between DG and Harlies.

Fast and fragile vs slow and hearty. I doubt they will go over much of the codex but it'll be interesting none-the-less to see the new DG in action.

Though I'm sure they aren't the only YT's to get theirs. I'd expect more discussions over the next few days.

The strategems aren't exactly anything too unexpected so far. I'm a little disappointed some have gone up in CP cost, but not unexpected. I've been checking dakka practically every 5 minutes hoping to see more leaks lol

 l0k1 wrote:
The strategems aren't exactly anything too unexpected so far. I'm a little disappointed some have gone up in CP cost, but not unexpected. I've been checking dakka practically every 5 minutes hoping to see more leaks lol

I know they just stopped randomly. I was hoping to see the relics and data sheets. We should also have another page or two of Strategems also.

Likely only one page is missing, but the wargear stratagems which are last in other codexes are haven’t been revealed.

Mass infantry deathguard is looking very interesting to me right now honestly. Imagine like 60 plague marines marching up the board with blightlords and deathshrouds in the mix as well (either cloud of flies or teleporting in).

All your lascannon and melta shots are overkill, but your single shot bolters and heavy bolters are going to take forever to chew through the plague marines and terminators.

A bit slow initially, but once they get to the midboard, its going to be a heck of a time to dislodge them.

All your lascannon and melta shots are overkill

That's the secret. They aren't overkill anymore.

The old anti-tank weapons are anti-heavy infantry weapons, and the mid-strength anti infantry weapons are better AT weapons.

DG just go an extra step down that path. Averaging 3.5 wounds on a d6 damage roll is pretty much exactly what you need - it isn't overkill at all.

In some ways it reminds me of RT and 2nd (pre vehicle damage changes), where you were better off saving lascannons and missile launchers for characters. Except now, you need them for even basic marines on the line.

I don't know. It still sounds inefficient to use lascannon shots to kill plague marines. These are now like 21 points each? And if you roll a 1 or 2 on the damage, you actually fail to kill the plague marine. So, given you are trying to kill a whole squad, there will bound to be some 1s and 2s in your damage rolls. So, how many lascannon shots are you going to require in order to kill a squad of plague marines.

Shooting deathguard terminators with lascannons make sense. But you can bet a big brick of Blightlords will have cloud of flies on it. So you end up having to kill off all the plague marines and stuff around it before you can shoot the blightlords anyway.

So you pack tons of Lascannons and Multi Meltas to counter Death Guard, then get absolutely wrecked by nids or orks next round of the event? If you're tailoring just for a single game hopefully the DG player doesn't use Powewalker screens.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Mass infantry deathguard is looking very interesting to me right now honestly. Imagine like 60 plague marines marching up the board with blightlords and deathshrouds in the mix as well (either cloud of flies or teleporting in).

Agreed, but my mind went in a bit of a different direction - Possessed. Rush Morty up the field flanked on both sides by full units of Possessed. That's 78 wounds rushing toward you at T5/T8 with good saves and -1 damage. Most armies will be hard-pressed to deal with that amount of wounds in a short time and that's only 970pts.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
TBH GW did the same with Loyalist marines nuking Scouts from orbit. GW clearly wants their marine factions to USE marines.

Then why not just make the base unit good?

Easier said than done. That sweet stop where unit A and unit B are both equally good is elusive at best. Much easier to place limits on army creation rather than to find the perfect balance of rules and points to make things equal in the eyes of the players.

 puma713 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Mass infantry deathguard is looking very interesting to me right now honestly. Imagine like 60 plague marines marching up the board with blightlords and deathshrouds in the mix as well (either cloud of flies or teleporting in).

Agreed, but my mind went in a bit of a different direction - Possessed. Rush Morty up the field flanked on both sides by full units of Possessed. That's 78 wounds rushing toward you at T5/T8 with good saves and -1 damage. Most armies will be hard-pressed to deal with that amount of wounds in a short time and that's only 970pts.

Hmm, I am still not sure about Morty. If even a knight can be easily brought down in one turn. Even with Morty's buffs, I think he can still die in one round. Can Morty hide behind cover? If he can, then yeah, that's doable. If he can't, he will just be like a knight and gets killed in one turn.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I don't know. It still sounds inefficient to use lascannon shots to kill plague marines. These are now like 21 points each? And if you roll a 1 or 2 on the damage, you actually fail to kill the plague marine. So, given you are trying to kill a whole squad, there will bound to be some 1s and 2s in your damage rolls. So, how many lascannon shots are you going to require in order to kill a squad of plague marines.

Shooting deathguard terminators with lascannons make sense. But you can bet a big brick of Blightlords will have cloud of flies on it. So you end up having to kill off all the plague marines and stuff around it before you can shoot the blightlords anyway.

Depends if they keep 4++ or not. If they do, that's not a great use of lascannons, especially since you have very good odds of _not_ one-shotting DG terminators with a lascannon (3.5-1=not dead). 3s to hit (or worse), 3s to wound, 4+ to do enough damage and maybe 4+ to just bounce anyway? Poor odds.
And at 4 CP for terminators, they can't do cloud of flies often... and are they deploying their terminators on foot in the back of their lines? Good luck to them.

l0ki wrote:So you pack tons of Lascannons and Multi Meltas to counter Death Guard, then get absolutely wrecked by nids or orks next round of the event? If you're tailoring just for a single game hopefully the DG player doesn't use Powewalker screens.

I'm not really sure what common ork and tyranid lists look like these days, but I doubt they're free of good targets for AT weapons. It wouldn't be all gaunts and boyz.

Poxwalker screens could be kind of fun. Poor resilience and slowing anything they're screening from getting to objectives.

Persomally, I wouldn't go crazy on poxwalkers. Maybe just 20 in the backfield on objectives possibly. Like you got dozens of obsec plague marines marching up the midboard plus blightlords and deathshrouds deepstriking in. If you want to try and shoot up those 20 poxwalkers at the very back of my backfield instead with your long range weapons, be my guest... lol

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Mass infantry deathguard is looking very interesting to me right now honestly. Imagine like 60 plague marines marching up the board with blightlords and deathshrouds in the mix as well (either cloud of flies or teleporting in).

Agreed, but my mind went in a bit of a different direction - Possessed. Rush Morty up the field flanked on both sides by full units of Possessed. That's 78 wounds rushing toward you at T5/T8 with good saves and -1 damage. Most armies will be hard-pressed to deal with that amount of wounds in a short time and that's only 970pts.

Hmm, I am still not sure about Morty. If even a knight can be easily brought down in one turn. Even with Morty's buffs, I think he can still die in one round. Can Morty hide behind cover? If he can, then yeah, that's doable. If he can't, he will just be like a knight and gets killed in one turn.

Don’t believe Morty can benefit from obscuring terrain, but even then, if you lose Morty in one turn, you’re doing it wrong. Someone in another thread did the math and showed that he is more resilient to melta weapons at T8 and -1D than his old incarnation and that was BEFORE we knew that he retained a 5+ FNP. If you build a list around him (which is the only way to build a list with him in it) you just have to know there are games where you’re gonna have to spend the 3 CP to put him in reserve in order to give yourself a chance to target whatever the scariest thing to him in your opponent’s army is. I know DG are slow and don’t have a ton of potent long range options but I’m sure there will be ways to manage this in 2 turns. That said, without knowing the full picture I think that the most potent way to run Mortarion will be some unfluffy soup list with other pskers (as long as that no psyker rumor is indeed fake) to buff him with warptime and or -1 to hit from a nurgle herald. Although if there is a psychic power in the DG codex that grants -1 to hit, blessed be, that should be enough to propel him to nightmarish levels of impossible to deal with.

I don't know, I'm kind of excited to run some possessed either a large squad or a couple small squads, they just feel good for tough shock troops with back up from the plague marines if needed. I'm pretty excited with the prospects for supporting that forward press I do love.

I'm probably gonna just go with 15 Terminators, three max groups of Poxwalkers, and ally in some Alpha Legion. Doesn't seem like anything is lost from bringing in other detachments is there?

Auspex Tactics(YouTube Channel) is reporting the following for Deadly Pathogens. They can be given to any non named character and any unit champion. Can't be added to grenades or relics. Limit 1 per character. Points are same as FAQ or add 1 PL. Can be added to melee or shooting weapons.

Each Deadly Pathogen Adds +1 STR to weapon in addition to each ability

Acidic Malady - 20pts - Improve AP by 1(AP0 becomes AP -1)
Explosive Outbreak - 20pts - Exploding 6s to hit
Virulent Fever - 20pts - Wound rolls of 6 = MW
Befouling Runoff - 10pts - ignores cover
Unstable Sickness - 15pts - each enemy model killed gives a 4+ chance to deal a MW to same unit
Corrosive Filth - 20pts - +1 damage vs vehicles
Viscous Death - 10pts - reroll number of attacks


Link to the source video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV2xUxTeCvg&t=316s

Huh, now that's a lazy recut of the original DI sprue! Includes a partial Death Guard marine.

 BrookM wrote:
Huh, now that's a lazy recut of the original DI sprue! Includes a partial Death Guard marine.

It's not a recut.

As I said back when we found out the contents of the Combat Patrol box - that is the DI sprue.

Just consider the half of a plague marine as a gift, and taste of times past.

Atleast you get a cool backpack and awesome shoulder pad for free

You can theoretically use one of them together with the other half that comes in the Campions box

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Huh, now that's a lazy recut of the original DI sprue! Includes a partial Death Guard marine.

It's not a recut.

As I said back when we found out the contents of the Combat Patrol box - that is the DI sprue.

It was the same with Conquest. One issue came with the Plague Marines and the instruction to keep some bits safe to one side until the Poxwalker issue z couple of months later.