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The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Ultramarines Codex; second edition page 7 if I'm not wrong.

Yeah.....it's clearly been retconned then.

 Ketara wrote:

Musselman wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
It should be noted that it would be Primarch A (Xenocide boy) who located the Ymga Monolith, as Primarch B (lost before found) would never have been in a position to lead an Imperium sponsored expedition.

It has been stated that... all 20 primarchs were given command of their legion.

Source? And is it dated since the Heresy got rebooted? Because if not, it's been retconned.

This is from lexicanum which I know isn’t consider cannon always but this was sited from Horus Heresy book 1 I believe. Now that still doesn’t mean it hasn’t been retconned, only that this is what I was using as a guideline. I don’t have any of the codex’s in front of me but I do remember older additions mentioning all the primarchs were found and given command of their legions. Still if there is some new lore that has been added in the 9th edition codex, I have it and can look it up.

During the subsequent Great Crusade, the twenty Legiones Astartes were the tip of the Emperor's spear in his conquest of much of the galaxy. Gradually, the twenty lost Primarchs were reunified with their respective Legion and led them to further glories, where they would begin to establish unique identities for themselves. However some point during the Great Crusade, two of the legions were erased from all records for unknown reasons.[7b]

Again if it has been retconned, then that changes everything and yes one or both could have died before being found. That seems less interesting but fits in with the older grim dark tone of 40k. Obviously being lost could reference being dead, being compromised/infected, mental breakdown, lack of morality/loyalty, to literally not knowing where he is in the galaxy or lost in the warp. And since the 2nd was found 3rd after Horus and Russ, he was not lost at that point, so is it the 2nd that becomes compromised and lost or the 11th? Also Angron had the nails(mental/moral/physical breakdown that would eventually kill him), Curze was maniac with visions(mental/moral corruption), and Perturabo had a 3rd of his legion killed because he thought they weren’t good enough(moral and even tactical corruption, even Guilliman argued that it was a terrible idea). Yet all 3 were given command of their legions. Either the lost primarchs were killed, failed to conquer their home world(Angron didn’t do that either and Ferrus refused to lead as a king), were mutated or infected, or the least likely pacifists.

Game wise? 2 lost legions are template for players to make their own legions/chapters as they wish so its up to you.
Lore wise? Its one of biggest secrets because what did they done to be completely erased from any existence? Maybe they worked with xenos? Maybe they were first to fall to Chaos but in such manner no one thought what that was then? Maybe they were unstable or turned againt emperor? My theory is vague but i think those 2 primarch found something they shouldn't, knowledge that could endanger Big E plans or even beat him? Maybe even time travel machines or ancient AI armies that one or both primarchs used and Emperor feared that war with machines will happen again. Whatever that was its so important that those primarchs are failures and their soldiers reinforced other legions without any right to tell from where they came from. If primarchs are personified emotions of Emperor then i really fear what those 2 primarchs represented.

I have my own head cannon that I have been working on for a few months. This idea came from the tarot card theory. This primarch would be the High Priestess to Magnus' Magician.

The second primarch was a powerful psyker on the level of Magnus but unlike him the 2nd primarch was controlled and methodical with his powers. He was a scholar who sought knowledge for the sake of knowledge rather than power. Unlike Magnus he was more cautious in delving too far into the warp. Nonetheless he was aware of the warp gods and he did not agree with the Emperor that they should keep their existence a secret. The Imperium would be less susceptible to their whispers if they knew what was out there. After he threatened to tell his brothers, the Emperor decided that he could not be allowed to poison his vision. The Primarch was taken care of and his legion was mind-wiped and moved to other legions.

I have not worked on a theory for the second Primarch. I am still working on fleshing him out but his name is Zenophon, after the Greek philosopher/military leader Xenophon.

I personally think that a Blank(but also a powerful psyker) and a Technophyle Primarchs work best. The second one specifically, because it's a well documented anathema in the setting. And it also only require to land on a planet (like our own) where you have technology and people forget about the Man of Iron.
For the first one too, I always was surprised that Magnus is the only naturally gifted psyker between the Primarchs. The Emperor usually have a plan B, or a backup. It seems odd the he only have a single option to keep the Golden Throne occupied (and it is also ironic if by its own decisions he first eliminate one of the candidates, and then make the second one rebels so he himself have to be put there in eternal torment).
Maybe the 40k setting is simply the purgatory of the Emperor for his sins.

That said, what are the crumble of information we have about the Unga Monolith and the Rangdang Genocide? Because I think that's what can make it or break it.
Safari as I'm aware, there was more of a biological danger in Rangdang rather than a technological one, correct?

I like to think that one of the Primarchs saw the emperors crusade coming and came to the conclusion he wanted no part of it. If for example a primarch had been with the Diasporex then he would see a group who wanted to kill all non human life as pretty horrific.

The Diasporex was a nomadic, democratic confederation of Humans and aliens who lived aboard a vast collection of ancient starships, maintaining a network of solar collectors around various stars to fuel their vessels' power generators. The aliens who existed in alliance with the Diasporex Humans were a large quadrupedal species that lacked eyes and made use of cybernetic enhancements.

Its always made out that the primarchs don't have any problems with the way the Imperium does things. None of them had positive experiences with mutants of aliens for example. Imagine one was brought up by exodite eldar and then the imperium comes along and wants to kill all alien. I think of some of the Primarchs like Konrad Curze and wonder what would have happened if he was adopted by mutants who looked after him as one of their own...would he be soo keen to kill mutants...not likely. Infact you can imagine he would be upset at the fact the imperium kills mutants.

A Blank (Pariah) Primarch that could completely negate the emperor's super psycher powers would be a seriously dangerous individual to let live...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still think that it makes sense that one of the primarchs landed on a planet that had an affinity for Xenos. They were raised and taught that intermingling with Xenos was completely acceptable. As a result, they did not accept the emperor's xenocidal tendencies...

...so that leads to the logical conclusion that one of the missing primarchs was a digganob. Yes, a human cosplaying as an ork, but he was primarch level. Initially, he was forced into hiding until after the dust of the Horus Heresy settled and he led to Orks to greatness. That's right, one of the missing primarchs eventually became THE BEAST.

Does a Primarch raised by Orks still have BS5+?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Does a Primarch raised by Orks still have BS5+?

Weren’t they named the Lost and the other was something else? Because one was, well Lost.

Going back to the earlier instances of Marine on Marine.
Wasn’t it in a HH book that Russ had to go to bring one of them to heel? And fight them I’d assume?

I’ve always thought the “Mal..” Horus tried to say was the name, as opposed to saying Malcador or something.
MalibRon is new to me, but I like that it fits..

One thing, wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that one was censured or something, brought to account for what they did? I guess the one Russ went after.

But also... Curze? I mean, how did he get away with so much.
One of the Vulkan short stories had him talking with Horus and wanting to redeem Curze for all the horrible stuff he did. Why didn’t The Emperor intervene thenif he did for one of these two?



In my opinion. The BL writers room and GW lore vault or whatever, has the knowledge. It’s all written, whether it will be used or not.
Various authors (Abnett springs to mind) have said they’ve asked to have a snippet of info put in or been given something to drop (probably like the Horus attempted name thing, or anytime they talk about them.
So they must have the knowledge there to draw from. Someone knows the facts.

One day it may be expanded on. Or never. Who knows.

But they were active and with their legions, out in certain places at certain times etc, so I’d imagine it’s plotted out in some form.

I think that one thing that would horrify even primarchs would be if one of the lost primarchs experimented on themselves and their legion creating marine/Xenos hybrids, half marine half ork for example. Kinda like Fabius bile in a way

I don't think any of the primarchs share the emperors interest in creating/experimenting to create better warriors.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I think that one thing that would horrify even primarchs would be if one of the lost primarchs experimented on themselves and their legion creating marine/Xenos hybrids, half marine half ork for example. Kinda like Fabius bile in a way

I don't think any of the primarchs share the emperors interest in creating/experimenting to create better warriors.

Thats why I always suspected it to be a biological component, as artifical limbs are always, well, artificial, and that kinda tech is okay.