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 posermcbogus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:


No one is disagreeing that the Marine releases are overblown and got out of control since the Primaris were announced. Even the most die hard Marine players admit it. It was more a point that it's not recent that Marines got the lionshare of the studio's attention and pretending it was a new change was disingenuous.

But go on, pretend you have some moral high ground because people point out you were wrong, and then strawman them all into a position no one is taking.

So why are you defending the state of things so far? If they - in your words "got out of control" how is this not a "new change"? We all know that it's not a recent thing that marines have dominated the release schedule, but the scale - the number of consecutive months when they've dominated previews, dominated release slots, campaign books, codex updates, box sets in the last few editions, at the pace they've been doing it is clearly alienating players.

Even if we look at the so-called big releases like GSC, Admech, even death guard the totals of kits, the multiples of unit types are dwarfed significantly be the attention that Marines have been getting, and where all of those release slots had an end, with, in most cases, no tangible schedule for future releases that marines get.
I don't recall having this many profiles for bolt weapons in any other edition of the game, nor the acceleration that we keep seeing.

All of this is a real factor in how people, such as myself and OP, are finding ourselves frustrated and burned out at the current state of affairs. A change of pace would absolutely make the game healthier.

Your bleeding heart act that "oh, it really is terrible that marines dominate the 40k output of GW" is pretty unconvincing when you continue to agitate for "no-one disagree with me because GW have been doing this for years, and so it's completely fine and shouldn't change." Call it strawmanning all you want, but I'm just reducing your points down. People are fed up with it becuase it sucks. If you're not, fine, whatever, bet you'd fit in really well in the GW facebook comments.

Why are you pushing me to defend a position I'm not taking? I don't think GW's current release scheme is correct, I've merely stated that we can't pretend that this is anything new. It's the same trajectory GW has had for years, just taken to 11.

You haven't reduced my points, you've made up new ones for me to defend and then attacked them while I wasn't even arguing them in the first place. No one is white knighting GW over this, we're just saying that this gak isn't new, so let's not claim it is.

And I've personally just started to come back from a break because the start of 9th was burning me out. All Astartes and Custodes, and then an FAQ that should have been released on Day 1 withheld for a codex release, and then it was haphazardly applied. I don't think GW has been doing a good job with the rules releases around 9th, even if I'm a big fan of the Crusade system.

Even if marines are popular and sells a lot it isn't in the interest of GW if the game becomes Horus Heresy 2. Just look at tournament attendance from before Covid and compare it to 6+ months earlier. Lots of events had up to 50% drop in numbers. Like 30% (including me) dropped from the last tournament my club held in February.

I didn't drop because of the power level of marines since I play BA and we had just gotten huge improvements in CA and PA. But I didn't look forward to play 3 games against IH and 2 against RG/WS/IF. Most of those I know that dropped had a marine army or at least access to one so if they wanted to they could play marines. In the summer before there were 0 codex marines in the 3 events I played in and only 2 blood angels players and 1 space wolf player so the game thrived here when Xenos and other imperials werent the NPC factions.

Those that want marine Vs marine already have another game to play. I don't know any marine player iRL who isn't suffering from primaris fatigue at this point.

Klickor wrote:
Even if marines are popular and sells a lot it isn't in the interest of GW if the game becomes Horus Heresy 2. Just look at tournament attendance from before Covid and compare it to 6+ months earlier. Lots of events had up to 50% drop in numbers. Like 30% (including me) dropped from the last tournament my club held in February.

I didn't drop because of the power level of marines since I play BA and we had just gotten huge improvements in CA and PA. But I didn't look forward to play 3 games against IH and 2 against RG/WS/IF. Most of those I know that dropped had a marine army or at least access to one so if they wanted to they could play marines. In the summer before there were 0 codex marines in the 3 events I played in and only 2 blood angels players and 1 space wolf player so the game thrived here when Xenos and other imperials werent the NPC factions.

Those that want marine Vs marine already have another game to play. I don't know any marine player iRL who isn't suffering from primaris fatigue at this point.

I'm slowly working on a Black Templar Primaris crusade but honestly I'm not sure when I'll be actually putting them on the table. I'm just not a fan of all these power armour punch ups. Good thing I've been looking at a second army that I can wheel out, and been looking pretty heavily at Xenos factions. Been looking at Orks and Dark Eldar the most, just trying to pick something between them.

Klickor wrote:
Even if marines are popular and sells a lot it isn't in the interest of GW if the game becomes Horus Heresy 2. Just look at tournament attendance from before Covid and compare it to 6+ months earlier. Lots of events had up to 50% drop in numbers. Like 30% (including me) dropped from the last tournament my club held in February.

I didn't drop because of the power level of marines since I play BA and we had just gotten huge improvements in CA and PA. But I didn't look forward to play 3 games against IH and 2 against RG/WS/IF. Most of those I know that dropped had a marine army or at least access to one so if they wanted to they could play marines. In the summer before there were 0 codex marines in the 3 events I played in and only 2 blood angels players and 1 space wolf player so the game thrived here when Xenos and other imperials werent the NPC factions.

Those that want marine Vs marine already have another game to play. I don't know any marine player iRL who isn't suffering from primaris fatigue at this point.

But your issue isn't the speed or volume of releases, it's because people are flocking to the "best" rules expecting to win more. Yes the marine book is/was very good, but if all people care about is the easiest wins then they don't care what army they play with/against, or how new the models are.

The second anyone uses tournament attendance or results to attack volume of model releases, they're unrelated. Balance =/= release schedule.

 Phobos wrote:
It is literally the only explanation that makes ANY sense. If it was about blob units and cost of entry, WHFB as a setting didn't need to go away. Games Workshop needed a clean slate to work from to develop the new story with Sigmarines at the center of it.The fact that WHFB was nearly dead and had poor sales and yadda yadda yadda is likely what convinced them that starting fresh and making it more like 40K with a central faction is the right thing to do.

Of course, that's not the reason that WHFB had problems. But suits only understand branding, not games.

Hecaton wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
It is literally the only explanation that makes ANY sense. If it was about blob units and cost of entry, WHFB as a setting didn't need to go away. Games Workshop needed a clean slate to work from to develop the new story with Sigmarines at the center of it.The fact that WHFB was nearly dead and had poor sales and yadda yadda yadda is likely what convinced them that starting fresh and making it more like 40K with a central faction is the right thing to do.

Of course, that's not the reason that WHFB had problems. But suits only understand branding, not games.

Kirby was running the show with his "we sell models, not games" approach and it was hurting the company bad. WFB ended up being the canary in the coal mine that caused them to change course though.

I've brought this up before, but the accelerated Marine release schedule and Codex 2.0 almost killed 40k in my local area before lockdown. Local tournament attendance plummeted and people struggled to find games with their Marines on the FB groups because they got sick of playing mirror match-ups. Even before second lockdown people were generally staying away from Marines unless it was a league game that they had to play and there was even a bit of drama amongst the local Crusade campaign being run of people accusing Marine players of powergaming (when all they were doing was playing a "normal" army, but it kind of shows that the average power level and un-fun nature of the book is still very much a thing)

It can kind of be summed with how one of the LGS managers saw the situation: the new Marine Codex saw a lot of sales of models, but longterm it hurt his specific shop/club because less people were coming in to play games, and with less people there it meant less small purchases, less money on pay to play and less money on tournament attendance.

Now obviously Marines are still selling like gangbusters, but if that sort of behaviour becomes a more widespread thing and draws more and more people away I wonder how viable such a release schedule is long-term. There's also the issue of: where do they go from here? Obviously one or two gaps remain in the Primaris range, but after that how do they add to it to keep the money coming in? The Primaris themselves were a soft admission that they'd basically milked the Marine idea dry already and so needed to soft reboot it, but that initially took 30 years to come about. The Primaris range is already bloated and close to running out of ideas and it's only been 3. I am incredibly curious as to what their plans are.

I talked about Marine Whales previously and who knows, maybe those guys just collecting obscene amounts of Space Marines because they can could offset the abandonment of the game by everyone else. It's basically the business model of every lootbox and gacha game and it seems to work for them.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...1at: They have no reason to change what's working for them.
2nd: Marines have been the stars of 40k since RT hit the shelves & this isn't changing any time in your lifetime. So you'd best reconcile yourselves with that fact.

Obviously. There's no possible reason that one army shouldn't be vastly over-supported and everyone else should have to wait a decade between releases. It's the best strategy to make any game work and we all need to shut up, stop whining, and get used to it, because there's no way GW ever changes anything in response to consumer complaints, like when they deleted USRs or made vehicles and MCs use the same statlines or got rid of D-weapons or gave everyone the same CP dependent on game size and penalized taking extra detachments or started giving out mono-faction bonuses...

If whining never worked sure, folks would get fed up and stop whining, but with GW whining sometimes works.

I'm just saying you'll die angry & bitter long before SM aren't the focus & most well supported 40k faction....

 Bosskelot wrote:
I've brought this up before, but the accelerated Marine release schedule and Codex 2.0 almost killed 40k in my local area before lockdown. Local tournament attendance plummeted and people struggled to find games with their Marines on the FB groups because they got sick of playing mirror match-ups. Even before second lockdown people were generally staying away from Marines unless it was a league game that they had to play and there was even a bit of drama amongst the local Crusade campaign being run of people accusing Marine players of powergaming (when all they were doing was playing a "normal" army, but it kind of shows that the average power level and un-fun nature of the book is still very much a thing)

It can kind of be summed with how one of the LGS managers saw the situation: the new Marine Codex saw a lot of sales of models, but longterm it hurt his specific shop/club because less people were coming in to play games, and with less people there it meant less small purchases, less money on pay to play and less money on tournament attendance.

Now obviously Marines are still selling like gangbusters, but if that sort of behaviour becomes a more widespread thing and draws more and more people away I wonder how viable such a release schedule is long-term. There's also the issue of: where do they go from here? Obviously one or two gaps remain in the Primaris range, but after that how do they add to it to keep the money coming in? The Primaris themselves were a soft admission that they'd basically milked the Marine idea dry already and so needed to soft reboot it, but that initially took 30 years to come about. The Primaris range is already bloated and close to running out of ideas and it's only been 3. I am incredibly curious as to what their plans are.

I talked about Marine Whales previously and who knows, maybe those guys just collecting obscene amounts of Space Marines because they can could offset the abandonment of the game by everyone else. It's basically the business model of every lootbox and gacha game and it seems to work for them.

Quoting xeno from the lancer thread:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh for sure. I have an end game here. My priamris strike force on display will be lit.

1 Astraeus
3 Repulsors
2 Executionsers
2 Gladiators
3 Impulsors
(Eventually 2 of the new land speeders)

Not to mention so really awesome apoc games.

It's just sad to me that across the board we can have such a wide disparity in 3 kits coming from the same box. This goes for any army.

Yeah I think some marine players will keep the lights on.

ccs wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...1at: They have no reason to change what's working for them.
2nd: Marines have been the stars of 40k since RT hit the shelves & this isn't changing any time in your lifetime. So you'd best reconcile yourselves with that fact.

Obviously. There's no possible reason that one army shouldn't be vastly over-supported and everyone else should have to wait a decade between releases. It's the best strategy to make any game work and we all need to shut up, stop whining, and get used to it, because there's no way GW ever changes anything in response to consumer complaints, like when they deleted USRs or made vehicles and MCs use the same statlines or got rid of D-weapons or gave everyone the same CP dependent on game size and penalized taking extra detachments or started giving out mono-faction bonuses...

If whining never worked sure, folks would get fed up and stop whining, but with GW whining sometimes works.

I'm just saying you'll die angry & bitter long before SM aren't the focus & most well supported 40k faction....

By focus you mean obsession.
It's one thing to focus on a side in such a game it's a whole other to pull a GW and yeet other factions in favour of Primaris leutnants.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
Which leads to some people having an issue. Either they need to just come right out and say the bias, or fix the very obvious bias.

I think fixing it would do wonders to not only let marine players relax every now and then but also let some other players get a long time in the sun free from the monthly primaris LT or next slew of marine model bloat tossed out.

I'm pretty sure the bias has been obvious for ages. I mean Marines got the first plastic kit, and they're literally the sale promo material:

Spoiler:

Let's be honest: it's never not been obvious that Marines are THE poster child.

Poster child and literally around half the forces of a system are branches of that same army is a different beast though. I can also say there were times sometimes up to half a year when there weren't marine releases at all. It's easy to forget that but I know there were large bits of time I had no new models to pick up and I played marines as my first army for a long time so if they dropped I would have checked them out. Now it just feels like there may never be a stretch of time marines aren't coming out or on the close radar for coming out. I sometimes wonder how they can keep it up with new units after new units seemingly forever.

 Bosskelot wrote:
I've brought this up before, but the accelerated Marine release schedule and Codex 2.0 almost killed 40k in my local area before lockdown. Local tournament attendance plummeted and people struggled to find games with their Marines on the FB groups because they got sick of playing mirror match-ups. Even before second lockdown people were generally staying away from Marines unless it was a league game that they had to play and there was even a bit of drama amongst the local Crusade campaign being run of people accusing Marine players of powergaming (when all they were doing was playing a "normal" army, but it kind of shows that the average power level and un-fun nature of the book is still very much a thing)

It can kind of be summed with how one of the LGS managers saw the situation: the new Marine Codex saw a lot of sales of models, but longterm it hurt his specific shop/club because less people were coming in to play games, and with less people there it meant less small purchases, less money on pay to play and less money on tournament attendance.

Now obviously Marines are still selling like gangbusters, but if that sort of behaviour becomes a more widespread thing and draws more and more people away I wonder how viable such a release schedule is long-term. There's also the issue of: where do they go from here? Obviously one or two gaps remain in the Primaris range, but after that how do they add to it to keep the money coming in? The Primaris themselves were a soft admission that they'd basically milked the Marine idea dry already and so needed to soft reboot it, but that initially took 30 years to come about. The Primaris range is already bloated and close to running out of ideas and it's only been 3. I am incredibly curious as to what their plans are.

I talked about Marine Whales previously and who knows, maybe those guys just collecting obscene amounts of Space Marines because they can could offset the abandonment of the game by everyone else. It's basically the business model of every lootbox and gacha game and it seems to work for them.

People also forget that an overpowered Marine book means we'll see a glut of Marine players as everyone has at least a small Marine army in their closet/basement and building one tends to be easy with the historical glut of cheap Marine boxes, whereas an overpowered non-Marine army does not engender as much of a growth as most people don't want to collect an army from scratch. Even when Ynnari was its height you wouldn't see many on the local level and the only places they appeared en masse was in big tournaments.

I would not be surprised if GW would see a ripple effect from this even though they are basking in money right now. Hope they manage to prevent that by providing very strong non-Marine books in the upcoming months.

Not Online!!! wrote:

ccs wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...1at: They have no reason to change what's working for them.
2nd: Marines have been the stars of 40k since RT hit the shelves & this isn't changing any time in your lifetime. So you'd best reconcile yourselves with that fact.

Obviously. There's no possible reason that one army shouldn't be vastly over-supported and everyone else should have to wait a decade between releases. It's the best strategy to make any game work and we all need to shut up, stop whining, and get used to it, because there's no way GW ever changes anything in response to consumer complaints, like when they deleted USRs or made vehicles and MCs use the same statlines or got rid of D-weapons or gave everyone the same CP dependent on game size and penalized taking extra detachments or started giving out mono-faction bonuses...

If whining never worked sure, folks would get fed up and stop whining, but with GW whining sometimes works.

I'm just saying you'll die angry & bitter long before SM aren't the focus & most well supported 40k faction....

By focus you mean obsession.
It's one thing to focus on a side in such a game it's a whole other to pull a GW and yeet other factions in favour of Primaris leutnants.

GW haven't dropped any core forces to produce Lieutenants, I know you're mad about R&H but when you can't buy an army in the first place and is presumably low sales what they did wasn't related to selling more primaris. I expect we'll see plastic R&H before long.

Ofc because that isn't an xenos army I'm sure it will still annoy some people.

R&h very much are supposed to be a core faction.
And yes GW has dropped core factions and units options just in favour of bolter porn or is the thinnening of DE imagined?
There are more fething Lieutenants than certain armies have units as a whole. That is a issue, end of story because these take up unnecessary rules release slots AND are an insult torwards SM players and non SM players because feth buying 3- diffrent loudout lieutenants when a singular fething set could do it. Meanwhile the non SM player get's less and less production capability alocated.

Dudeface wrote:
GW haven't dropped any core forces to produce Lieutenants, I know you're mad about R&H but when you can't buy an army in the first place and is presumably low sales what they did wasn't related to selling more primaris. I expect we'll see plastic R&H before long.

Ofc because that isn't an xenos army I'm sure it will still annoy some people.

That might be true, but instead of making half of those lieutenants, they could have made a big mek with KFF, some archon or succubus with new weapon options, a phoenix lord, a skitarri HQ, a GK brother-captain, or a new variant of all the other ancient finecast models.

It's not like there is a lack of characters that could use new options/an alternative model/a model at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm slowly working on a Black Templar Primaris crusade but honestly I'm not sure when I'll be actually putting them on the table. I'm just not a fan of all these power armour punch ups. Good thing I've been looking at a second army that I can wheel out, and been looking pretty heavily at Xenos factions. Been looking at Orks and Dark Eldar the most, just trying to pick something between them.

Go for orks. Since 8th, they are probable one of the few factions that is getting exactly as much love as every faction should be getting.

 Jidmah wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
GW haven't dropped any core forces to produce Lieutenants, I know you're mad about R&H but when you can't buy an army in the first place and is presumably low sales what they did wasn't related to selling more primaris. I expect we'll see plastic R&H before long.

Ofc because that isn't an xenos army I'm sure it will still annoy some people.

That might be true, but instead of making half of those lieutenants, they could have made a big mek with KFF, some archon or succubus with new weapon options, a phoenix lord, a skitarri HQ, a GK brother-captain, or a new variant of all the other ancient finecast models.

It's not like there is a lack of characters that could use new options/an alternative model/a model at all.

this.

heck GW bothered to make more needless CSM hq options, like the Master of executions or the MoP, which both could've been consolidated into a singular sorcerer and Exalted champion as options for a propper kit along the lines of the old terminator lord, and in the rules as a dual kit / option for a psy discipline, that way the HQ kit's might be more justifyable even from a pricing standpoint.
Meanwhile DE charachters of the one faction that revolves around individualistic BDSM enthusiastic bastards that circle backstab each other for personal gain and their vanities and urges has an armory and ammount of options for it's HQ that's fething laughable.

Also, the blatant favouritism is even showable with what got legended and replaced, considering SM got a whole instant new biker chaplain, meanwhile CSM lost all theirs (not even going into daemonic mounts)? DE? When was the last check up on Orks, which recently got their biker boss back..

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

ccs wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...1at: They have no reason to change what's working for them.
2nd: Marines have been the stars of 40k since RT hit the shelves & this isn't changing any time in your lifetime. So you'd best reconcile yourselves with that fact.

Obviously. There's no possible reason that one army shouldn't be vastly over-supported and everyone else should have to wait a decade between releases. It's the best strategy to make any game work and we all need to shut up, stop whining, and get used to it, because there's no way GW ever changes anything in response to consumer complaints, like when they deleted USRs or made vehicles and MCs use the same statlines or got rid of D-weapons or gave everyone the same CP dependent on game size and penalized taking extra detachments or started giving out mono-faction bonuses...

If whining never worked sure, folks would get fed up and stop whining, but with GW whining sometimes works.

I'm just saying you'll die angry & bitter long before SM aren't the focus & most well supported 40k faction....

By focus you mean obsession.
It's one thing to focus on a side in such a game it's a whole other to pull a GW and yeet other factions in favour of Primaris leutnants.

Nope. I mean focus.
Obsession is what some of you suffer from. You keep ranting that "It's not a Xeno!" "GWs is ignoring the Xenos...."
And yet there's a Xeno faction that just received a substantial increase....

ccs wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

ccs wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...1at: They have no reason to change what's working for them.
2nd: Marines have been the stars of 40k since RT hit the shelves & this isn't changing any time in your lifetime. So you'd best reconcile yourselves with that fact.

Obviously. There's no possible reason that one army shouldn't be vastly over-supported and everyone else should have to wait a decade between releases. It's the best strategy to make any game work and we all need to shut up, stop whining, and get used to it, because there's no way GW ever changes anything in response to consumer complaints, like when they deleted USRs or made vehicles and MCs use the same statlines or got rid of D-weapons or gave everyone the same CP dependent on game size and penalized taking extra detachments or started giving out mono-faction bonuses...

If whining never worked sure, folks would get fed up and stop whining, but with GW whining sometimes works.

I'm just saying you'll die angry & bitter long before SM aren't the focus & most well supported 40k faction....

By focus you mean obsession.
It's one thing to focus on a side in such a game it's a whole other to pull a GW and yeet other factions in favour of Primaris leutnants.

Nope. I mean focus.
Obsession is what some of you suffer from. You keep ranting that "It's not a Xeno!" "GWs is ignoring the Xenos...."
And yet there's a Xeno faction that just received a substantial increase....

Sure, come back when you actually read what i stated.

Not Online!!! 794465 11003378 wrote:
Also, the blatant favouritism is even showable with what got legended and replaced, considering SM got a whole instant new biker chaplain, meanwhile CSM lost all theirs (not even going into daemonic mounts)? DE? When was the last check up on Orks, which recently got their biker boss back..

Isn't it the case of GW not having new models for them. And it is easier for them to implement demons on demonic mounts, because those cross over in AoS.

Although it does rise one question. How hard would it be to make a khorn demon mounted model, with two separate backs? One the AoS cloak+skulls etc and one with a marine back pack. AoS blood warriors practicaly look like khorn berzerkers should minus the back packs. So maybe in the future some sort of dual faction box may happen, if GW feels really gracious.

Dudeface wrote:

Klickor wrote:
Even if marines are popular and sells a lot it isn't in the interest of GW if the game becomes Horus Heresy 2. Just look at tournament attendance from before Covid and compare it to 6+ months earlier. Lots of events had up to 50% drop in numbers. Like 30% (including me) dropped from the last tournament my club held in February.

I didn't drop because of the power level of marines since I play BA and we had just gotten huge improvements in CA and PA. But I didn't look forward to play 3 games against IH and 2 against RG/WS/IF. Most of those I know that dropped had a marine army or at least access to one so if they wanted to they could play marines. In the summer before there were 0 codex marines in the 3 events I played in and only 2 blood angels players and 1 space wolf player so the game thrived here when Xenos and other imperials werent the NPC factions.

Those that want marine Vs marine already have another game to play. I don't know any marine player iRL who isn't suffering from primaris fatigue at this point.

But your issue isn't the speed or volume of releases, it's because people are flocking to the "best" rules expecting to win more. Yes the marine book is/was very good, but if all people care about is the easiest wins then they don't care what army they play with/against, or how new the models are.

The second anyone uses tournament attendance or results to attack volume of model releases, they're unrelated. Balance =/= release schedule.

I dont think it would have been so bad if the other factions got a lot of new models and marines only had an OP codex. Then people could get excited about new armies and models for those and just ignore the competetive meta for a while. But if all they get is more and more marine models and nothing to their other armies then they just lose motivation and feel like its a marine vs marine arms race. Doesnt help that in the last 16 months we have had 2 marine codex, 8 marine supplements and I think at least 2 or maybe even 3 of the Psychic awakening books were mostly marines as well. So all you see is more and more marines on the horizon.

16 months of constant marine releases and there are still Dark Angels, maybe Black Templars as well, for book releases left. We are still waiting for a number more of marine kits as well. Eradicators, Bladeguard Veterans, Heavy Intercessors and Suppressors. Almost forgot the new speeders that are coming some time soon too.

At least Necrons are getting a boost in popularity due to the new models and rules. It is weird that Primaris is getting their FIFTH(fourth kit) troop unit when firstborns had ~2 for decades. Primaris have HQ and Troop choices enough for 3 whole factions at this point. Wouldnt be out of place at all if it werent for Primaris being the newest faction and being a sub faction of the already largest faction so they didnt really need that anything that quickly. Halving the amount of Primaris would still make it an effort for the marine player to keep up and divert resources that could be used to increase interest in the other factions.

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! 794465 11003378 wrote:
Also, the blatant favouritism is even showable with what got legended and replaced, considering SM got a whole instant new biker chaplain, meanwhile CSM lost all theirs (not even going into daemonic mounts)? DE? When was the last check up on Orks, which recently got their biker boss back..

Isn't it the case of GW not having new models for them. And it is easier for them to implement demons on demonic mounts, because those cross over in AoS.

Although it does rise one question. How hard would it be to make a khorn demon mounted model, with two separate backs? One the AoS cloak+skulls etc and one with a marine back pack. AoS blood warriors practicaly look like khorn berzerkers should minus the back packs. So maybe in the future some sort of dual faction box may happen, if GW feels really gracious.

How do you think most CSM players create ATM berzerkers?
It's stupidly easy, just as it was to put a berzerker on top of a Khorne juggernaught(? forgot the name, the one were bloodletters sit ontop)
Thing is though, GW doesn't want to because GW made an oopsie in regards to copyright law. And instead of beeing responible threw a tantrum and removed any non GW produced option of equipment or HQ, regardless how easy it was to convert these out of the baseline kits from 40k itself, only to spite the custommer base and deny 3rd party sales.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:

Not Online!!! 794465 11003378 wrote:
Also, the blatant favouritism is even showable with what got legended and replaced, considering SM got a whole instant new biker chaplain, meanwhile CSM lost all theirs (not even going into daemonic mounts)? DE? When was the last check up on Orks, which recently got their biker boss back..

Instead of being responible threw a tantrum and removed any non GW produced option of equipment or HQ, regardless how easy it was to convert these out of the baseline kits from 40k itself, only to spite the custommer base and deny 3rd party sales.

I actually wouldn't have minded this practice that much if they had then continued on to make sure every kit was overflowing with different options - so they could follow the "no kit, no models" paradigm without limiting options at all.
Instead, they seem to have done the exact opposite. More and more kits are coming out monopose with few or even no options at all.
My beautiful Sanguinary Priest is a perfect example, he's a a lovely model but has no poseability and no options at all. He doesn't even have a fething Jump Pack, he's supposed to be equal in stature to a Librarian but is stuck with a smaller armoury than a sergeant? It's just so lame.

You are overthinking this. You just use the actual lord of khorne on a juggernaut and swap out the shield arm with one holding a bolt pistol or whatever else in your bits box strikes your fancy.

i take your sanguinary priest and raise by Exalted champion, warpsmith, Master of executions and Master of possessions, not having in some cases even baseline equipment options nor mobility options.
And then i raise by archons...

 Jidmah wrote:
You are overthinking this. You just use the actual lord of khorne on a juggernaut and swap out the shield arm with one holding a bolt pistol or whatever else in your bits box strikes your fancy.

Ehh, he's to old school armored, but yea passable.

Options?

None of the DG characters get as much as extra heads

The funny thing is that they dont have this policy with their LOTR game. There are lots of units with options that GW have never released models for. They didnt remove all those options when they rebooted the game as MESBG.

Sure, they dont have the same rights to the IP as for their 100% own products but it still encourages people to look for substitutes outside of GW. If I need to do heavy converting work or buy 3d party for my heroes why not just do that for my whole army? Sure for offical events you need GW models but what if I don't live in Nottingham?

Klickor wrote:
The funny thing is that they dont have this policy with their LOTR game. There are lots of units with options that GW have never released models for. They didnt remove all those options when they rebooted the game as MESBG.

Sure, they dont have the same rights to the IP as for their 100% own products but it still encourages people to look for substitutes outside of GW. If I need to do heavy converting work or buy 3d party for my heroes why not just do that for my whole army? Sure for offical events you need GW models but what if I don't live in Nottingham?

It also encourages kitbashing which means buying multiple GW boxes you may not have bought otherwise. I bought a box of 3 ork warbikes, because I need one for kitbashing a warboss on bike. I wouldn't have bought that kit of bikes (the warboss I got it second hand) if the option of a bike for a warboss wasn't available, like in 8th.

I also bought and additional box of SW terminators just to kitbash characters in terminator armour. I wouldn't have done it if those characters didn't have the terminator armour as an available option to take.

For all the steps forward GW take in some regards they take huge regressions back and I feel like its the suits telling the game folk which way is up. I think most people who have played the game for awhile have used kits to make characters from them as opposed to just buying all the character models. However this is a dying thing it feels like for GW games.

I definitely feel that GW's models have moved further and further away from being game-friendly.

It's the irony that even back in the day when GW very explicitly insisted they made "models, not games" their models were far more suited to gaming pieces than they are today.

Kits with limited to no poseability are great if you want a display piece, they're naff if you're going to want several boxes to build an army.
Kits with extremely dynamic, very spindly, detail also look great as a display piece. They're not so great if they take up an entire hardcase to themselves and break from a withering glare.
Pretty much every kit GW puts out nowadays suffers from one or both of those issues.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I definitely feel that GW's models have moved further and further away from being game-friendly.

.

And this is one of the reasons why people pick marines too. It is much easier to take an intercessor and slap a jump pack and him, and presto a jump pack captin with terras teeth. Comparing to the hurdel one has to go through, with resculpting and removing hair, smoke, bugs and whole missing model sections if you want to convert a new model from most other factions. I get that details are important. I like the ones GK termis have on them. Enough to make them special, but not enough to clutter the models. And I think if someone has them in plastic it is easier to convert or change the models comparing to something like the new dark eldar models . In fact I would even go as far as saying that GW makes their own models look worse then they really are by adding some of the cool effects to the models. Maybe they look cool if you paint the models well or paint the models at all, but they don't if you aren't that much of a painter.

Also fully agree about the forced dynamic poses. Hard to transport, and look ,at least to me, kind of a silly when every 5th model in each squad is doing the same kind of back flip.