Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 aphyon wrote:

Currently I am testing the waters in Star Wars Legion. Just something to break away from the GW community a bit and to avoid complete and utter burnout.

i hit the burnout point with the release of 6th. at that point i only had 40K, B5 wars, BFG and classic battletech. i shelved 40K for about a year and got into infinity, warmachine, victory at sea, forces of valor battle tactics (1:32 scale WWII skirmish). more recently i added DUST and monpoc.

I highly recommend stepping away from GW for some variety. there are some truly great games out there that you miss if you stay focus on GW products.

I agree. I think the problem is that GW has such a market saturation that it is often difficult in many places to play different games.

I hit that point a long time ago, really around the release of 6th edition.

But you know, GW is still producing some awesome stuff and a lot of the stuff I have always loved is still available.

I have got myself a little starter force for all of my favourite factions and am putting together armies for Grimdark Future rather than 40K. If GW release cool models I like the look of I am happy to pick them up, otherwise I look at the start collecting boxes for good value on kits I always liked before.

I don't like the way the background went from 8th so I am working on my own background for my minis and really enjoying that as well. I always wanted a Space Dwarf faction so I am putting them in using Mantic models.

Necromunda models are sweet as hell and the old rules are easy to find, so now I have a visually upgraded version of my favourite sci fi skirmish game.

I am mixing my old BFG stuff with some Dropfleet Commander stuff to make some fleets for my various forces.

Honestly I am more enthused than I have been in years because I realised that this is my hobby, and it really doesn't have to have anything to do with whatever GW is releasing this month. I have a huge range of awesome stuff to paint and work on, and there are plenty of great free rulesets out there to use with your models.

What I miss out on I guess is the pick up and play and tournament scene. But if I ever decide I want to take part in that, it will not be difficult to grab one of my armies and give it a go, and I am relaxed about that because it just currently does not appeal to me because of how the game is structured.

When I look at what GW the corporation is doing, yeah I get a bit cynical about all the Space Marine releases. And their rules have always been spotty to say the least. But nothing stops us from going off and finding better rules to use with our toys and buying the stuff we are interested in for our projects rather than riding the new release train.

These sorts of posts used to annoy me a bit back when I was still heavily invested in GW, but those guys were right. It is your hobby, take ownership of it. If the corporation is causing you to lose interest or become unhappy, then just ignore them and focus on what you do enjoy and what originally drew you in.

Losing the pick up and play and tournament stuff is a big deal for some people - back then I was a store club gamer and a tournament gamer. But cutting loose of all that has some major advantages too. I never get annoyed or anything by anything GW does now, I just look to see if they are making anything I like the look of. And you know, often they are!

Table 794465 11001210 wrote:

The point of this post, is to ask that if anyone has been getting overwhelmed as well? If so, how are you handling it?
.

I do play an imperial marine faction, but an unupdated one. My ways of dealing with the marine style of rules, or necron ones which seem to be very nice or all the other good xeno and chaos factions is. First 9th is way better then 8th, if I took the worse 9th game I had and put had the same style of game in 8th, I would rank it as the best game I had all 8th ed. Second I wait for a codex update. I waited 3 years for PA with GK rules, I can wait another 1-2 years for a GK codex. From what I also understand some people went in to painting and convering, while waiting for their factions being updated. One guy at my new store is repainting his tau army, and in the mean time he plays the store owners white scar list.

 aphyon wrote:

Currently I am testing the waters in Star Wars Legion. Just something to break away from the GW community a bit and to avoid complete and utter burnout.

i hit the burnout point with the release of 6th. at that point i only had 40K, B5 wars, BFG and classic battletech. i shelved 40K for about a year and got into infinity, warmachine, victory at sea, forces of valor battle tactics (1:32 scale WWII skirmish). more recently i added DUST and monpoc.

I highly recommend stepping away from GW for some variety. there are some truly great games out there that you miss if you stay focus on GW products.

Up until 8th our group was mainly focused on Warmahordes, and prior to that I personally mainly played WHFB before it died. Since then 8th attracted a lot of new player but the downside is they mainly only want to play 40k and I just don't enjoy 40k that much even at the best of times. I stuck with it through 8th because it was fairly simple but 9th brought in terrain classifications, secondaries, the command phase not to mention its being increasing the book keeping needed with stuff like protocols. A lot of them bought into Kill Team and Necromunda and even those don't really get played because I assume if you're making the effort to get family time off and travel 20+mins each way for an evening you may as well play a big game but playing one game for 3 years has really killed it for me.

I can enjoy 40k when its just putting models on a table and rolling dice, but it's gotten to the point where it's so cumbersome that if I need to do this much admin for a table top game I'd rather just play a board game and actually engage my mind in something beyond "have I remembered to do my command phase stuff? Which protocol are my necrons using this turn? Which stratagems am I using? Is everyone in the right place to use them? which kind of cover was this?" 40k is too big of a game to have so much crap going on. I can deal with in in Malifaux or Warmahordes because the games are much smaller in scale and don't take 3-4 hours to play not including set up but with 40k it feels like adding complexity for the sake of it. I have no desire to engage in 40k as a hobby anymore and I'm making a big effort to paint the armies I have and then I don't need to worry about it anymore. Don't need to buy any new books or models and can channel my energy into something I actually enjoy. What's especially frustrating is that on the rare occasion I've gotten the All 40k All The Time players to play a board game they seem to have been more invested and animated by it than they have in 40k games but for some reason they're very resistant to playing non-GW games.

I assume if you're making the effort to get family time off and travel 20+mins each way for an evening you may as well play a big game but playing one game for 3 years has really killed it for me.

I get one day a week and so i make the most of it (12+ hours under normal conditions) getting in games for several systems during the day...my commute is closer to an hour each way to the game store i volunteer at.


My frustration level with 6th caused my burnout. i could not play the army that i loved, lost every game i tried for a month straight and they were not the fun kind of great battle loses you enjoy....

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

Selfcontrol wrote:

But GW is losing customers little by little.

Followed by :

Of the several players I have kept in contact with, one has also fallen out of the game due to this same fact.

Your statement is based upon nothing expect your small group of friends/players. As always with such stupid statement. The real answer is : we don't know.

The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

I said that my experience is from a small amount of players. So...............................................................................
As for whiney? Sure. I will own that. Im only replying to this to call out that no matter how much you try not to trigger people, you can trigger people. And ill state once more, perhaps in vain. I am NOT attacking Imperial fans or players. I have lived to long to throw people into a box and berate them. Some good posts here however. I have enjoyed reading most of them.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Tau have the same number of ranged weapons in their wargear list as space marines have different kinds of bolter weapon.

the_scotsman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Tau have the same number of ranged weapons in their wargear list as space marines have different kinds of bolter weapon.

That isn't exactly a refutation of the idea that the Tau are the best supported xenos faction.

Yeah, 800 kinds of bolter, most of which have the same profile, is silly.

There has never been a better time to look outside of GW (or, oddly enough, at older OOP GW games that 3d printing has revolutionised and now have great community-revised rules and a solid following).

I've recently started Warmaster, there's a huge amount of 3d sculpted indie minis out there, many exceeding the quality and details of the originals. The ruleset is maintained by the community and is a revised version that works brilliantly, fixing the main issues with the first edition by incorporating the changes in warmaster ancients and adding scenarios.

Similar things have happened with BFG, Epic and Mordheim.

In terms of other gaming companies, you're spoilt for choice, Infinity, Star Wars Legion, Deadzone are all good picks. Or even just necromunda if you want to remain within GW's current supported ecosystem.

There's far more to the hobby than 40k, I got bored of it when realising that my Eldar are going to be stuck with late 1980s sculpts forever.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

True. But it'd be very difficult to launch an entire new product line with out that # of releases....

Yeah, but it was GW's choice to launch that entire new product line.

Obviously, they did it for fairly sound economic reasons, and it has worked out for them. But that doesn't mean we as consumers owe them any praise for it in particular.

Table wrote:
The point of this post, is to ask that if anyone has been getting overwhelmed as well? If so, how are you handling it?

Glass half full - my Imperial faction has gotten an update this decade. Marine bias, not imperial bias after all.
Glass half empty - the local group died off over 6th edition. We gave 8th a bit of a revival try but the high lethality card-combos and 'half hour bucket of dice with rerolls' game turns had mixed success. Perhaps try again in a year, or get the 5e rewrite done and try that.

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

True. But it'd be very difficult to launch an entire new product line with out that # of releases....

They've done it numerous times before and since so not sure how much water that holds.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Tau have the same number of ranged weapons in their wargear list as space marines have different kinds of bolter weapon.

That isn't exactly a refutation of the idea that the Tau are the best supported xenos faction.

Yeah, 800 kinds of bolter, most of which have the same profile, is silly.

Tau just feel particularly well-supported because of two main reasons.

1) their iconic troop, HQ, and Elite all got a very nice rework fairly recently. Prior to that, Crisis Suits, Commanders, and Fire warriors were all 3rd ed era like Orks/Nids/Eldar/etc

2) their vehicles have that good fortune to be produced in the 3rd/4th early plastics era but are stylized enough that they look fairly good, pretty similar to Eldar vehicles. They look a damn sight better than IG vehicles/Firstborn Rhino vehicles/Good Lord No Chaos Marine Vehicles.

But I still gotta disagree. Orks and Necrons both have more extensive ranges, more options, and less embarrassing finecrap. And tighter armies like Harlequins GSC and Drukhari are 100% modern sculpts even if they have less stuff.

I can see where the OP is coming from, I have imperial armies and even I'm overwhelmed at this point.

I would say it isn't " Imperial " armies persay, it's Space marines by a large margin.Yes you can say they were always a large issue like this but I don't recall such a sustained period of time that marines took up literally 80% of the releases and its been sustained as such for awhile at this point.

Before you could at least give doubt to the dying that it wasn't so, now it's hard to miss and not every imperial army gets that attention ( just look at IG, outside of single special release characters they haven't gotten crap all through 8th and now into 9th and I am not sure that trend is going anywhere soon ).

Anyone saying this isn't a problem I think is really not following the trend when even youtubers are saying it's a bit too much that can be a sign maybe this path is burning people out on marine vs marines with side of marines.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone, this is a GW made problem and they really do need to relax a bit or people will get bored and just walk away and then they'll end up thinking " We haven't made enough space marines !!!! "

I'd say that was a joke, but it's probably what they'd say.

GW definitely did overkill with the current marine releases. The models in the Indomitus book were fine, but nobody was clamouring for a 3W Troop choice, another HQ option (Gravis again), a techmarine turret and gun bunker. It is full on marine whiplash, it's getting old (coming from someone with Dark Angels, Deathwatch and Ravenguard), even more so that they are dragging the living hell out of the current marine releases. They still have at least a month or two of releases. I would hope that this would be it for a very long time, but no....here is Uriel friggin Ventris for you, cause you need another marine HQ.

However, gaming can still be fun if you can bend your group a little. If all you are playing is 2000pts tournament style missions, it's going to get really old, especially if you're already saturated with Imperials. You have to mix it up if you're getting burned out (or switch to another game system for awhile).
I played a narrative mission solo from Vigilus last weekend. Iron Warriors attacking an Imperial World, but it was a mish mash of defenders...some guardsmen, with Blackstone Fortress robot as bodyguard for officer. 2 knight helverins, a squad of ravenguard intercessors, couple of rapier batteries, etc. It was a blast, more fun than I've had with a standard 2000pt game in awhile. It's also going to be a start for an ongoing narrative campaign now.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

True. But it'd be very difficult to launch an entire new product line with out that # of releases....

They've done it numerous times before and since so not sure how much water that holds.

??
I'm not sure what your issue is.
You'd generally expect a product line of a 40k army to have what, around 20-30 kits, right? And a bit more for a particularly well supported range (Ex: Primaris).
The complaint is the sheer # of Primaris releases.
I was pointing out that this is not really the case. That the Primaris line has pretty much the # of kits one would expect.

Counting the stuff from the Indom launch bundle that's yet to be released on their own + that new Speeder thing, the Primaris line tallies up to 37 things.
Of those 37? 17 are individual characters, two of wich were previously released together (so I counted them as 3 releases), many of wich are just different Lts.
AND these releases? They've spanned what, 3?, almost 3.5-4 years? now.

It's that 3+ year trickle of releases for Primaris that's the oddity. Because your right, generally when a new line arrives you get most of it up front.

*I did not count chapter specific Primaris like Calgar/Ragnar/etc.
*I also only counted a vehicle kit once if it makes multiple variations of the unit.
*It's possible that I've missed a LT. somewhere
*I also didn't count any EZ build kits that have "complete" kits like the Redemptor dread.
*I did not count Forge World.

Ok put another way; which new product lines have gotten that number of releases ? Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ok put another way; which new product lines have gotten that number of releases ? Maybe I am just misunderstanding.

Well the only "new" product line 40k wise would be the sisters of Battle. Virtually their entire line was re-sculpted & became plastic.
They received 23 kits + the Battle Sanctum (terrain that helps SoB). And 7 of those are single character types. Oh, and there's 2(?) special edition SoB figures.
8th ed codex came out & everything save one of the LE figures arrived up front spread over a few months.

Coming in a strong 2nd would be my Necrons @ at least* 16 units (some characters, 1 just a different overlord sculpt, and new sculpts for a few other things) + that Convergence of Dominion kit.
Some of this stuff has yet to be released outside the Indom boxes though.
*Some of the characters & the plastic Wraiths I'm not sure if they were 9th or 8th & prior - so I didn't count them.
And this new stuff has been arriving steadily since the Codex dropped. Very much like the SoB stuff did.
But hey, I get it, they aren't Primaris & thus don't support the "We're drowning in Primaris releases".


After that it'd be the GSC & AdMech - I'm not sure what these guys had before in 7th, but I know they both received a fair # of additional units during 8th.

Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

I'm building Marines right now, but I haven't bought anything since Indomitus dropped, I'm just chipping away at my pile of shame.

Honestly what I want to be spending money on right now is Traitor Guard, but I haven't really sold myself on what I want to do or which rules I want to use yet. Dark Mechanicus would be good too, but I always hit a bit of a roadblock thinking of ideas for conversions for them.

I never bough a single primaris model, as I already own a complete SM army and I'm not willing to add just a few out of scale models or re-buy the entire collection again. If I wanted to invest a significant amount of money in new miniatures I would have bought a different faction like sisters, not my very same army with updated models.

But with introducing sets and easy to build kits a large part of the new releases were actually very cheap, sometimes a huge deal. The indomitus marine half alone is cheaper than some single classic marine boxes.

A new complete primaris collection is definitely cheaper than most of the other factions, which is something that probably contributed to avoid (or maybe just limit) feeling overwhelmed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

I'm building Marines right now, but I haven't bought anything since Indomitus dropped, I'm just chipping away at my pile of shame.

Honestly what I want to be spending money on right now is Traitor Guard, but I haven't really sold myself on what I want to do or which rules I want to use yet. Dark Mechanicus would be good too, but I always hit a bit of a roadblock thinking of ideas for conversions for them.

if your group is fine with playing older editions, or houseruling, grab yourself the IA13 ruleset.

Right now though go with "shudders" guard... for the more proffesional armies /militias and with GSC for cults... (even have the options for usefull daemons cough tyranid count as)

Whatever you do, unless you want to be an donkey-cave with the army, don't use the legends rules. If you want to be one, use the HWT quad launcher team spam with 35 ppm 5 man squad guaranteed smite bots.... much fun to be had... not really.

the_scotsman wrote:
But I still gotta disagree. Orks and Necrons both have more extensive ranges, more options, and less embarrassing finecrap. And tighter armies like Harlequins GSC and Drukhari are 100% modern sculpts even if they have less stuff.

In terms of models, I'd agree that orks are a fairly well supported army because they have gotten stuff regularly and were rarely, if ever, left out of any release cycle. The list of things they need updated is rather short unless you are one of those people who have a problem with ork boyz for some reason.

Drukhari though? They've got their big release in a time when GW still thought finecast was the best idea ever, and sharing options between kits was normal. The fallout of the chapterhouse lawsuit has hit them harder than most, and I don't think they have gotten anything but finecast replacements in the last 8 years.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

Well, why shouldn't they? It's not their fault they get given new stuff.

I noticed we had a random metric of marines getting 80% of the releases earlier on here as well which is incredibly incorrect in terms of models, it's easily ess than 50% of 40k releases off top of my head?

Yeah that was my random metric and I don't think its as off as you'd imagine it to be, I'm not going to do the math but some time ago we had gone through releases from 8th on and marines were a vast majority at that time.

It may have been a high number but not at 80% but unless you want to do the math and fact check I still would say its at least 50% if not more, I'd wager more considering most factions haven't even got a real touching on in awhile.

As well it isn't the sheer number of releases so much as it is marine releases are never ending, do you really think you'll keep seeing necrons trickle out ? I doubt at this point we will see any new models with say Imperial guards release. The deathguard as it is now looks to be from all we know 2 whole models, one character and a scenery piece.

What have Dark Eldar gotten ? Or Eldar ? One new plastic unit and a character in how long ?

Sisters got a pretty large release but before then it was what a character here or there for what like 2 decades or something ? Hold in mind some of these numbers I'm just tossing out but even with that their release of a whole line reboot stretched out over like 3 or 4 months ?

We just keep being shown new marines, on new marines with new marines. I play marines, I even get some of them but other players do have a right to feel like nothing else shows up. We have what still coming ? The speeders, Heavy ints, Blade shield vet guys, probably like 4 more Lts at least, this Ventris character now. Who knows how many more supplements on the way.

You can argue the numbers but its the length as well as numbers that is really annoying to the people.

We could go through all the factions and if someone wants to, feel free to see what all they've gotten since 8th, unless the lines either new or gotten a full reboot you won't see that much for them I am pretty sure and even with whole line reboots it was done and over pretty fast considering the numbers involved.

It took how long for the admech faction to flesh out as it has ? That was the initial drops, then nothing for a long time, then the hovercrafts, then nothing for awhile , then the last wave with the flyer and winged guys and wild west gunslinger cyborgs.

I'm going on too far but marine saturation is real, it's not blown up because " everyone hates marines ! " Many of us play marines but you'd be forgiven for thinking 40k is really just marines and their enemies battle zone game. In the grim darkness of the far future there is only marines and those they kill.

Dudeface wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

Well, why shouldn't they? It's not their fault they get given new stuff.

I noticed we had a random metric of marines getting 80% of the releases earlier on here as well which is incredibly incorrect in terms of models, it's easily ess than 50% of 40k releases off top of my head?

A bigger issue is how you count rules etc.
Some people view burn out as Model based, some are more concerned with the game balance.
Some are a combination of multiple thing's.

Also I don't think anyones really saying it's marine players fault but the mess GW have made with the constant Marines Marines marines relentlessly getting new models, new rules, new model, new rules. While armies have widely been panned as unplayable competitively and wait entire editions to make it to B tier thrn be abandoned again.

Like when games in stores become 50+% marine vrs marine it's a problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

True. But it'd be very difficult to launch an entire new product line with out that # of releases....

They've done it numerous times before and since so not sure how much water that holds.

??
I'm not sure what your issue is.
You'd generally expect a product line of a 40k army to have what, around 20-30 kits, right? And a bit more for a particularly well supported range (Ex: Primaris).
The complaint is the sheer # of Primaris releases.
I was pointing out that this is not really the case. That the Primaris line has pretty much the # of kits one would expect.

Counting the stuff from the Indom launch bundle that's yet to be released on their own + that new Speeder thing, the Primaris line tallies up to 37 things.
Of those 37? 17 are individual characters, two of wich were previously released together (so I counted them as 3 releases), many of wich are just different Lts.
AND these releases? They've spanned what, 3?, almost 3.5-4 years? now.

It's that 3+ year trickle of releases for Primaris that's the oddity. Because your right, generally when a new line arrives you get most of it up front.

*I did not count chapter specific Primaris like Calgar/Ragnar/etc.
*I also only counted a vehicle kit once if it makes multiple variations of the unit.
*It's possible that I've missed a LT. somewhere
*I also didn't count any EZ build kits that have "complete" kits like the Redemptor dread.
*I did not count Forge World.

Discounting all the chapter specific models, charictors and easy build kits is very disingenuous IMHO as those are all things that no xeno factions got.
I also don't think any other imperial faction has either, I only really remeber deathguard as getting ETB kits so really it's just another way to downplay the raw number of Marine kits GW has saturated the game with since the start of 8th. Not to mention being the only faction on codex 3.0 and their 3 set of supliments.

Like assuming a team of 4 sculptors a fairer way to devide resources would be
1 for marines
1 for Choas
1 for xeno
1 for Imperial

What it feels like currently is we have
3 for marines
1 for choas, imperial, xeno.

Not to mention people are getting sick of playing against marines 3.0 after being abused by marines 2.0

Why people can't see that reducing the games to green marines versus grey marines is not healthy for community's long term I dont know.

I understand your perspective but let me pose a different angle.
I understand marine players complaining, they get fleeced for money constantly, more stuff than they can actually keep up with and feel resented for it.

Turning this on it's head do none marine players want to buy a new codex every year, have nigh on mandatory supplements to buy on top, to have more models released invalidating or updating chunks of the army trickled out month after month?

Is the core problem that it's a constant trickle, is it that its marines and not somebody else or is it simply that they release too much too often now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always have to laugh because of the Marine players agreeing with the central issue people raise, while still saying that they're buying all the new releases anyway.

Well, why shouldn't they? It's not their fault they get given new stuff.

I noticed we had a random metric of marines getting 80% of the releases earlier on here as well which is incredibly incorrect in terms of models, it's easily ess than 50% of 40k releases off top of my head?

A bigger issue is how you count rules etc.
Some people view burn out as Model based, some are more concerned with the game balance.
Some are a combination of multiple thing's.

Also I don't think anyones really saying it's marine players fault but the mess GW have made with the constant Marines Marines marines relentlessly getting new models, new rules, new model, new rules. While armies have widely been panned as unplayable competitively and wait entire editions to make it to B tier thrn be abandoned again.

Like when games in stores become 50+% marine vrs marine it's a problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Even many of us who like Primaris are burnt out by the sheer amount of Primaris releases. I mean the Primaris have seen as many releases in a couple years as some armies have in a decade.

True. But it'd be very difficult to launch an entire new product line with out that # of releases....

They've done it numerous times before and since so not sure how much water that holds.

??
I'm not sure what your issue is.
You'd generally expect a product line of a 40k army to have what, around 20-30 kits, right? And a bit more for a particularly well supported range (Ex: Primaris).
The complaint is the sheer # of Primaris releases.
I was pointing out that this is not really the case. That the Primaris line has pretty much the # of kits one would expect.

Counting the stuff from the Indom launch bundle that's yet to be released on their own + that new Speeder thing, the Primaris line tallies up to 37 things.
Of those 37? 17 are individual characters, two of wich were previously released together (so I counted them as 3 releases), many of wich are just different Lts.
AND these releases? They've spanned what, 3?, almost 3.5-4 years? now.

It's that 3+ year trickle of releases for Primaris that's the oddity. Because your right, generally when a new line arrives you get most of it up front.

*I did not count chapter specific Primaris like Calgar/Ragnar/etc.
*I also only counted a vehicle kit once if it makes multiple variations of the unit.
*It's possible that I've missed a LT. somewhere
*I also didn't count any EZ build kits that have "complete" kits like the Redemptor dread.
*I did not count Forge World.

Discounting all the chapter specific models, charictors and easy build kits is very disingenuous IMHO as those are all things that no xeno factions got.
I also don't think any other imperial faction has either, I only really remeber deathguard as getting ETB kits so really it's just another way to downplay the raw number of Marine kits GW has saturated the game with since the start of 8th. Not to mention being the only faction on codex 3.0 and their 3 set of supliments.

Like assuming a team of 4 sculptors a fairer way to devide resources would be
1 for marines
1 for Choas
1 for xeno
1 for Imperial

What it feels like currently is we have
3 for marines
1 for choas, imperial, xeno.

Not to mention people are getting sick of playing against marines 3.0 after being abused by marines 2.0

Why people can't see that reducing the games to green marines versus grey marines is not healthy for community's long term I dont know.

Everyone can see this, but nobody is forcing these people to play marines.

There are 20 factions with codices out there.
They essentially are doing releases roughly twice a month now, so it's not rocket science to just spread releases evenly across 12 months.

Heck, they'd even have four slots left to do chapter-specific releases so the snowflake chapters keep their identity and for stuff like ynnari, inquisition or assassins.