Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Thadin wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
What I'm salty about is losing the one rule that made us feel really dang unique, and losing the chance to actually survive high SP shots.
The theory that the surgeon is gonna give (this is my guess) CORE a 6+ FNP? That's like slapping a band aid on a bolter wound to the head and is frankly insulting. Yes, I'm gonna take a surgeon or two, but that doesn't change anything.
What makes us special now? We "ignore" moving and shooting penalties? Yay... That has come up exactly ONCE in all my games in 8th and 9th. We ignore a wound? Yeah, that does SCREAM like a Nurgle thing, unlike the extremely un-fluffy FNP (sarcasm).

what makes you special is that youre more resilient than other equivalent models (PM vs Tacticals, Blightlords vs termis). The chance of an 8th edition PM surviving a damage 3+ weapon was 0.03%, not its 0%. Its really not a nerf when you consider how much more resilient you become against D1 and D2 weapons.

The only thing it does is remove the tedious part of spamming dice rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Are rubrics gonna get 2 wounds?

All power armored astartes will

How do you become more resilient to D1 weapons?

PMs have high T and 2 wounds. Compared to their previous version of T5, 1 wound 5+++. Still more survivable than tacs/intercessors.

They will have the same effective survability as heavy intercessors - except against 1 damage weapons. Which are 28 poins and come standard with a str 5 ap -1 36" range. They also got that plauge knife which is decent and can take plasma rifles and such. They are gonna be a solid choice IMO. glad to see FNP gone. I'm sure they will get access to 6 + FNP auras.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Nurgle takes just as many wounds as everybody else, it's just that they ignore the wounds. You can't ignore wounds you don't take.

You ignore wounds now too, you just dont need to roll for it so youre not gonna get that dopamine hit from rolling 2 5+ against an overcharged plasma and saving your guy. Now you just won't have to roll at all and your guy will survive 100% of the time.

You can't ignore damage you don't take. We take one wound less, we don't ignore it.

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
What I'm salty about is losing the one rule that made us feel really dang unique, and losing the chance to actually survive high SP shots.
The theory that the surgeon is gonna give (this is my guess) CORE a 6+ FNP? That's like slapping a band aid on a bolter wound to the head and is frankly insulting. Yes, I'm gonna take a surgeon or two, but that doesn't change anything.
What makes us special now? We "ignore" moving and shooting penalties? Yay... That has come up exactly ONCE in all my games in 8th and 9th. We ignore a wound? Yeah, that does SCREAM like a Nurgle thing, unlike the extremely un-fluffy FNP (sarcasm).

what makes you special is that youre more resilient than other equivalent models (PM vs Tacticals, Blightlords vs termis). The chance of an 8th edition PM surviving a damage 3+ weapon was 0.03%, not its 0%. Its really not a nerf when you consider how much more resilient you become against D1 and D2 weapons.

The only thing it does is remove the tedious part of spamming dice rolls.

Yeah, you're right. It's tedious and boring to roll dice. That's why I play a game that's based on rolling dice.
I also find it bopring to move my models, that's why I just deploy them and hope the objectives come to me.
I also find it tedious and boring to glue models, that's why I never do. I just use the sprue.

Its a strategy game before a dice game. I'd rather spend my time focusing on the strategy part than the dice part. Sorry if my opinion offends you somehow.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Thadin wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
What I'm salty about is losing the one rule that made us feel really dang unique, and losing the chance to actually survive high SP shots.
The theory that the surgeon is gonna give (this is my guess) CORE a 6+ FNP? That's like slapping a band aid on a bolter wound to the head and is frankly insulting. Yes, I'm gonna take a surgeon or two, but that doesn't change anything.
What makes us special now? We "ignore" moving and shooting penalties? Yay... That has come up exactly ONCE in all my games in 8th and 9th. We ignore a wound? Yeah, that does SCREAM like a Nurgle thing, unlike the extremely un-fluffy FNP (sarcasm).

what makes you special is that youre more resilient than other equivalent models (PM vs Tacticals, Blightlords vs termis). The chance of an 8th edition PM surviving a damage 3+ weapon was 0.03%, not its 0%. Its really not a nerf when you consider how much more resilient you become against D1 and D2 weapons.

The only thing it does is remove the tedious part of spamming dice rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Are rubrics gonna get 2 wounds?

All power armored astartes will

How do you become more resilient to D1 weapons?

PMs have high T and 2 wounds. Compared to their previous version of T5, 1 wound 5+++. Still more survivable than tacs/intercessors.

They will have the same effective survability as heavy intercessors - except against 1 damage weapons. Which are 28 poins and come standard with a str 5 ap -1 36" range. They also got that plauge knife which is decent and can take plasma rifles and such. They are gonna be a solid choice IMO. glad to see FNP gone. I'm sure they will get access to 6 + FNP auras.

I feel mostly the same way. Heavy Intercessors are likely going to be more expensive than stock PMs, which, I HOPE will justify the different in damage output.

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Nurgle takes just as many wounds as everybody else, it's just that they ignore the wounds. You can't ignore wounds you don't take.

You ignore wounds now too, you just dont need to roll for it so youre not gonna get that dopamine hit from rolling 2 5+ against an overcharged plasma and saving your guy. Now you just won't have to roll at all and your guy will survive 100% of the time.

You can't ignore damage you don't take. We take one wound less, we don't ignore it.

Its the same result, no? You end up taking less damage. A plague marine losing half its body to a plasma shot still lives because he doesnt even feel the wound. And i'm pretty sure all "take -1 damage" ability are classified as "abilities that ignore damage". The nightbringer ignores these abilities.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:
What I'm salty about is losing the one rule that made us feel really dang unique, and losing the chance to actually survive high SP shots.
The theory that the surgeon is gonna give (this is my guess) CORE a 6+ FNP? That's like slapping a band aid on a bolter wound to the head and is frankly insulting. Yes, I'm gonna take a surgeon or two, but that doesn't change anything.
What makes us special now? We "ignore" moving and shooting penalties? Yay... That has come up exactly ONCE in all my games in 8th and 9th. We ignore a wound? Yeah, that does SCREAM like a Nurgle thing, unlike the extremely un-fluffy FNP (sarcasm).

what makes you special is that youre more resilient than other equivalent models (PM vs Tacticals, Blightlords vs termis). The chance of an 8th edition PM surviving a damage 3+ weapon was 0.03%, not its 0%. Its really not a nerf when you consider how much more resilient you become against D1 and D2 weapons.

The only thing it does is remove the tedious part of spamming dice rolls.

Yeah, you're right. It's tedious and boring to roll dice. That's why I play a game that's based on rolling dice.
I also find it bopring to move my models, that's why I just deploy them and hope the objectives come to me.
I also find it tedious and boring to glue models, that's why I never do. I just use the sprue.

Its a strategy game before a dice game. I'd rather spend my time focusing on the strategy part than the dice part. Sorry if my opinion offends you somehow.

I'd rather focus on both the fun of strategy AND the fun of dice rolling. It's an EXTREMELY big part of the game, so why try to reduce it as much as possible?
However, I do belive it's a topic for another thread.

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Nurgle takes just as many wounds as everybody else, it's just that they ignore the wounds. You can't ignore wounds you don't take.

You ignore wounds now too, you just dont need to roll for it so youre not gonna get that dopamine hit from rolling 2 5+ against an overcharged plasma and saving your guy. Now you just won't have to roll at all and your guy will survive 100% of the time.

You can't ignore damage you don't take. We take one wound less, we don't ignore it.

I shoot you with an overcharged plasma shot.

Old DR you roll a 5+ and a 2+, you have ignored 1 wound

New DR you don't roll, you have ignored 1 wound.

Please tell me how one is result differs from the other.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Nurgle takes just as many wounds as everybody else, it's just that they ignore the wounds. You can't ignore wounds you don't take.

You ignore wounds now too, you just dont need to roll for it so youre not gonna get that dopamine hit from rolling 2 5+ against an overcharged plasma and saving your guy. Now you just won't have to roll at all and your guy will survive 100% of the time.

You can't ignore damage you don't take. We take one wound less, we don't ignore it.

Its the same result, no? You end up taking less damage. A plague marine losing half its body to a plasma shot still lives because he doesnt even feel the wound. And i'm pretty sure all "take -1 damage" ability are classified as "abilities that ignore damage". The nightbringer ignores these abilities.

With the new rule, the marine won't even lose half it's body to a plasma shot. It used to, but then just ignored it on a 5+.
But yes, it's basically the same.
Until you stop ignoring all the mortal wounds EVERYWHERE. DG was unique in that we had a high survivability against the psychic phase. Now we just have to spam psychers to try and survive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Nurgle takes just as many wounds as everybody else, it's just that they ignore the wounds. You can't ignore wounds you don't take.

You ignore wounds now too, you just dont need to roll for it so youre not gonna get that dopamine hit from rolling 2 5+ against an overcharged plasma and saving your guy. Now you just won't have to roll at all and your guy will survive 100% of the time.

You can't ignore damage you don't take. We take one wound less, we don't ignore it.

I shoot you with an overcharged plasma shot.

Old DR you roll a 5+ and a 2+, you have ignored 1 wound

New DR you don't roll, you have ignored 1 wound.

Please tell me how one is result differs from the other.

Old DR you take two wounds. roll a 5+ and a 2+, you have ignored 1 wound
New DR.you take ONE wound.

Tossing dice is fun, I can agree there. I do not enjoy the tedium of shooting rapid-fire plasma, or using multi-damage weapons against FNP models.

Hellblasters in half range shooting at plague marines;

Roll two dice at a time per Hellblaster. Rerolling 1s/failed hits for each little batch. Roll to wound, reroll wound. Roll to armor save (usually). DG player rolls two dice at a time to get through the damage per shot.

For variable damage weapons, roll hits, reroll, roll wounds, reroll wounds, roll armor saves, roll variable damage one at a time (d3 for example), then roll FNPs.

I'd like the sheer amount to be pared down. At least now, in the case of D2, damage is just applied after saves.

Note, rerolls in any of the earlier steps could go away too, assuming proper balance given in exchange. I don't find hurling MASSIVE amounts of dice, or slowly going through weird groupings, to be particularly fun or think it should be the Unique ability that an army has.

 Thadin wrote:
Tossing dice is fun, I can agree there. I do not enjoy the tedium of shooting rapid-fire plasma, or using multi-damage weapons against FNP models.

Hellblasters in half range shooting at plague marines;

Roll two dice at a time per Hellblaster. Rerolling 1s/failed hits for each little batch. Roll to wound, reroll wound. Roll to armor save (usually). DG player rolls two dice at a time to get through the damage per shot.

For variable damage weapons, roll hits, reroll, roll wounds, reroll wounds, roll armor saves, roll variable damage one at a time (d3 for example), then roll FNPs.

I'd like the sheer amount to be pared down. At least now, in the case of D2, damage is just applied after saves.

Note, rerolls in any of the earlier steps could go away too, assuming proper balance given in exchange. I don't find hurling MASSIVE amounts of dice, or slowly going through weird groupings, to be particularly fun or think it should be the Unique ability that an army has.

We share this opinion 100%. Dice rolls are fun, tedious dice rolls aren't.

Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Biasn wrote:
Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Based on DG's trait, i'd say its safe to assume every legion will have a 3-part trait.

-Generic
-Infantry
-Vehicles

 Thadin wrote:
Tossing dice is fun, I can agree there. I do not enjoy the tedium of shooting rapid-fire plasma, or using multi-damage weapons against FNP models.

Hellblasters in half range shooting at plague marines;

Roll two dice at a time per Hellblaster. Rerolling 1s/failed hits for each little batch. Roll to wound, reroll wound. Roll to armor save (usually). DG player rolls two dice at a time to get through the damage per shot.

For variable damage weapons, roll hits, reroll, roll wounds, reroll wounds, roll armor saves, roll variable damage one at a time (d3 for example), then roll FNPs.

I'd like the sheer amount to be pared down. At least now, in the case of D2, damage is just applied after saves.

Note, rerolls in any of the earlier steps could go away too, assuming proper balance given in exchange. I don't find hurling MASSIVE amounts of dice, or slowly going through weird groupings, to be particularly fun or think it should be the Unique ability that an army has.

So what you're really saying is that because YOUR army is forcing you to roll a lot of dice, you don't want your opponent's army to make you wait while he/she rolls a few more?
You basically want your army to roll its' dice and the opponent to remove their models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Biasn wrote:
Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Since they did this to DG, expect psychic to not be integral or special for 1k sons.

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
Tossing dice is fun, I can agree there. I do not enjoy the tedium of shooting rapid-fire plasma, or using multi-damage weapons against FNP models.

Hellblasters in half range shooting at plague marines;

Roll two dice at a time per Hellblaster. Rerolling 1s/failed hits for each little batch. Roll to wound, reroll wound. Roll to armor save (usually). DG player rolls two dice at a time to get through the damage per shot.

For variable damage weapons, roll hits, reroll, roll wounds, reroll wounds, roll armor saves, roll variable damage one at a time (d3 for example), then roll FNPs.

I'd like the sheer amount to be pared down. At least now, in the case of D2, damage is just applied after saves.

Note, rerolls in any of the earlier steps could go away too, assuming proper balance given in exchange. I don't find hurling MASSIVE amounts of dice, or slowly going through weird groupings, to be particularly fun or think it should be the Unique ability that an army has.

So what you're really saying is that because YOUR army is forcing you to roll a lot of dice, you don't want your opponent's army to make you wait while he/she rolls a few more?
You basically want your army to roll its' dice and the opponent to remove their models.

Thats not what he said, he said he disliked FnP because they force both players to spam dice rolls and do weird grouping of dice rolls.
It becomes a chore for both players and is one of the main source of time "wasting" in a game.

He critiques his Hellblasters needing to each roll separately because they can overheat, this doesnt even touch your army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kall3m0n wrote:


Since they did this to DG, expect psychic to not be integral or special for 1k sons.

DR never was your legion trait tho....

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Based on DG's trait, i'd say its safe to assume every legion will have a 3-part trait.

-Generic
-Infantry
-Vehicles

Ehhh - I think that is wishful. Not even marines were gifited with such greatness. Crons for sure didn't.

I wonder though...are DG gonna get 9ish sub factions of DG to be extra deathgaurdy kinda like the TS did in PA?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Based on DG's trait, i'd say its safe to assume every legion will have a 3-part trait.

-Generic
-Infantry
-Vehicles

Ehhh - I think that is wishful. Not even marines were gifited with such greatness. Crons for sure didn't.

I wonder though...are DG gonna get 9ish sub factions of DG to be extra deathgaurdy kinda like the TS did in PA?

They already did get plague companies in their PA. The real question is if the PA will still be valid once the codex comes out.

I have to do this in just about every army I play, but yes, Space Marines are the worst offenders of massed rerolls. I can get solid chunks of my CWE and AdMech armies rerolling too. It's tedious to play my DG against multi-damage hits, especially since since the FNP, as it is now, offers such a low chance for troops and such to survive damage, it feels like rolling without reason.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
Tossing dice is fun, I can agree there. I do not enjoy the tedium of shooting rapid-fire plasma, or using multi-damage weapons against FNP models.

Hellblasters in half range shooting at plague marines;

Roll two dice at a time per Hellblaster. Rerolling 1s/failed hits for each little batch. Roll to wound, reroll wound. Roll to armor save (usually). DG player rolls two dice at a time to get through the damage per shot.

For variable damage weapons, roll hits, reroll, roll wounds, reroll wounds, roll armor saves, roll variable damage one at a time (d3 for example), then roll FNPs.

I'd like the sheer amount to be pared down. At least now, in the case of D2, damage is just applied after saves.

Note, rerolls in any of the earlier steps could go away too, assuming proper balance given in exchange. I don't find hurling MASSIVE amounts of dice, or slowly going through weird groupings, to be particularly fun or think it should be the Unique ability that an army has.

So what you're really saying is that because YOUR army is forcing you to roll a lot of dice, you don't want your opponent's army to make you wait while he/she rolls a few more?
You basically want your army to roll its' dice and the opponent to remove their models.

Thats not what he said, he said he disliked FnP because they force both players to spam dice rolls and do weird grouping of dice rolls.
It becomes a chore for both players and is one of the main source of time "wasting" in a game.

He critiques his Hellblasters needing to each roll separately because they can overheat, this doesnt even touch your army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kall3m0n wrote:


Since they did this to DG, expect psychic to not be integral or special for 1k sons.

DR never was your legion trait tho....

Yes, FNP makes players "spam" dice rolls just like armour saves.
If the critique was against Hellblasters and not FNP, then i misunderstood and I stand corrected.

Disgustingly Resiliant (5+FNP) was kinda DG's thing, just like Psychic is 1k sons' thing.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Biasn wrote:
Man i hope they do expand the Thousand Sons trait since extra casting range is useless on 90% of the codex.

Based on DG's trait, i'd say its safe to assume every legion will have a 3-part trait.

-Generic
-Infantry
-Vehicles

Ehhh - I think that is wishful. Not even marines were gifited with such greatness. Crons for sure didn't.

I wonder though...are DG gonna get 9ish sub factions of DG to be extra deathgaurdy kinda like the TS did in PA?

They already did get plague companies in their PA. The real question is if the PA will still be valid once the codex comes out.

They should be - the marine supplements are still valid somehow...

 Thadin wrote:
I have to do this in just about every army I play, but yes, Space Marines are the worst offenders of massed rerolls. I can get solid chunks of my CWE and AdMech armies rerolling too. It's tedious to play my DG against multi-damage hits, especially since since the FNP, as it is now, offers such a low chance for troops and such to survive damage, it feels like rolling without reason.

A 33% chance isn't "such a low chance" and not very "rolling without a reason" at all.
When it comes to 6+ I totally agree, but not 5+.

T5, 1 Wound 5+++ FNP vs overcharged plasma is closer to a 15% to not lose a PM body. I don't have the exact numbers on hand, but having to make two 1/3rd chances in a row to stop a result from happening is low.

The critique of rolling weird groupings on the other side, the attacker side, applies to any model that is overcharging plasma and rapid firing. Guardsmen need to roll 2 dice at a time too, in case they batch roll and roll 2x results of a natural 1. Those two 1s could have come from the same model firing, or not, resulting in 1 overcharge death, or two.

 Thadin wrote:
T5, 1 Wound 5+++ FNP vs overcharged plasma is closer to a 15% to not lose a PM body. I don't have the exact numbers on hand, but having to make two 1/3rd chances in a row to stop a result from happening is low.

Yes, and against a lascannon that rolls a 4 it's even smaller. If the lascannon rolls a 6, it's EVEN smaller.
What's your point?

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
I have to do this in just about every army I play, but yes, Space Marines are the worst offenders of massed rerolls. I can get solid chunks of my CWE and AdMech armies rerolling too. It's tedious to play my DG against multi-damage hits, especially since since the FNP, as it is now, offers such a low chance for troops and such to survive damage, it feels like rolling without reason.

A 33% chance isn't "such a low chance" and not very "rolling without a reason" at all.
When it comes to 6+ I totally agree, but not 5+.

? its way lower than 33% for Infantry to survive against multi-damage hits right now.

Currently, a plague marine has these chances to survive :

EDITED

Vs D1 : 33%
Vs D2 : 11%
Vs D3 : 3%
Vs D4 : 1%
Vs D5 : 0.4%
Vs D6 : 0.1%

With the new rules, these are the odds:

Vs D1 : 100%
Vs D2 : 100%
Vs D3 : 0%
Vs D4 : 0%
Vs D5 : 0%
Vs D6 : 0%

So theyre effectively MORE resilient now than before.

Now, non-infantry did get a resiliency hit but @Thadin's comment specifically spoke about infantry vs multidamage.

At that level, you're pointlessly rolling dice.

Lascannon rolls 4 damage, shot in to a PM. You roll 4 DRs, hoping to pass them all on an exceedingly low chance.

Lascannon rolls 4 damage. PM goes bye-bye.

Edit: Thanks for the math on it. I knew it was low, but didn't think it was THAT low for D2

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
T5, 1 Wound 5+++ FNP vs overcharged plasma is closer to a 15% to not lose a PM body. I don't have the exact numbers on hand, but having to make two 1/3rd chances in a row to stop a result from happening is low.

Yes, and against a lascannon that rolls a 4 it's even smaller. If the lascannon rolls a 6, it's EVEN smaller.
What's your point?

That it was wasted time rolling 6 dice for that 1 in 2,187 chance the lascannon doesn't kill them.

It’s not that low. It’s 11%.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It’s not that low. It’s 11%.

yeah my bad, forgot to convert it back to % instead of leaving it in decimals

I figured it was a typo. No biggie.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
I have to do this in just about every army I play, but yes, Space Marines are the worst offenders of massed rerolls. I can get solid chunks of my CWE and AdMech armies rerolling too. It's tedious to play my DG against multi-damage hits, especially since since the FNP, as it is now, offers such a low chance for troops and such to survive damage, it feels like rolling without reason.

A 33% chance isn't "such a low chance" and not very "rolling without a reason" at all.
When it comes to 6+ I totally agree, but not 5+.

? its way lower than 33% for Infantry to survive against multi-damage hits right now.

Currently, a plague marine has these chances to survive :

EDITED

Vs D1 : 33%
Vs D2 : 11%
Vs D3 : 3%
Vs D4 : 1%
Vs D5 : 0.4%
Vs D6 : 0.1%

With the new rules, these are the odds:

Vs D1 : 100%
Vs D2 : 100%
Vs D3 : 0%
Vs D4 : 0%
Vs D5 : 0%
Vs D6 : 0%

So theyre effectively MORE resilient now than before.

Now, non-infantry did get a resiliency hit but @Thadin's comment specifically spoke about infantry vs multidamage.

Yet again I stand corrected. I totally missed the fact he/she was talking about multi wound. I'm gonna start reading more carefully.
And also: Thansk for including the probability chart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thadin wrote:
At that level, you're pointlessly rolling dice.

Lascannon rolls 4 damage, shot in to a PM. You roll 4 DRs, hoping to pass them all on an exceedingly low chance.

Lascannon rolls 4 damage. PM goes bye-bye.

Edit: Thanks for the math on it. I knew it was low, but didn't think it was THAT low for D2

Yes and no. Warhammer is a game where chance plays a BIG role.
Lascannon rolls 4 dmg, PM has a chance to survive. No, sorry... *had
We always try to increase our chance of killing and surviving.
But things aren't just black or white. There is a gray zone.
A PM has to make 4 FNP? I roll it, expecting the PM to die, barely even looking at the dice roll. A PM has to make 10 FNP? I'm not even rolling. A PM rolling 2 FNP? I'm rolling in excitement for the chance of survival.
Now? A PM takes two wounds, minus one. Exciting! A PM takes three wounds, minus one. I remove the model. Exciting!

Point is. PM will be more reliant against the things they should be resilient against. Not against Multi meltas and the Sword of the emperor.