Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,

I've been offered a cheap army with 90 Boyz and 80 grots for pretty cheap. I love Ork models, but I am notorious for slow play. Will the Orks make me slower?

Is there anything I can do to mitigate this as Orks?

My suggestion would be to paint them red.

dbecer01 wrote:
Hi guys,

I've been offered a cheap army with 90 bous and 80 grots for pretty cheap. I love Ork models, but I am notorious for slow play. Will the Orks make me slower?

Is there anything I can do to mitigate this as Orks?

Look into movement trays. Memorize your rules (including cost and effect of stratagems). Those two things will speed you up significantly.

Cool, so what do I do about the metric s$&@ ton of dice I have to roll?

Depends. What is it that makes you consider yourself a slow player?

When I used to play guard, all the shooting took me forever to do.

I think the orders were also something that was difficult to keep track of.

Also, setting up and putting away all the models.

With Orks I'm afraid of:
1) Deployment
2) Moving the models
3) taking the bucket of shots

Well, depending on how you build them you may not fire a single shot. Lots of pistol weapons and as an ork you'll usually want to be advancing for that extra movement.

When picking a clan culture, maybe dont go with one that gives rerolls. Bad moons and deffakulls are great on paper but rerolling the ones when shooting 60+shootas is not a great idea for speed of play. Evil sunz would still be good while not costing time

There are tricks to moving and attack with lots of models. Have your dice arranged so you can grab 10, 20, 30, etc. all in one go and reroll as needed to get your 60/90/120 shots or attacks. When moving it helps to measure out the critical models on the edge of the unit, then you can just double hand dart up the rest of the models within that boundary you know to by 6". If you want to pick up the horde, I say go for it. It's a lot of fun.

I was thinking of playing Goff, as they would be str 5, and wouldn't be largely useless attacks (Like I used to with my guardsmen and their str 3 guns).

Maybe I need movement trays too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warptide wrote:
There are tricks to moving and attack with lots of models. Have your dice arranged so you can grab 10, 20, 30, etc. all in one go and reroll as needed to get your 60/90/120 shots or attacks. When moving it helps to measure out the critical models on the edge of the unit, then you can just double hand dart up the rest of the models within that boundary you know to by 6". If you want to pick up the horde, I say go for it. It's a lot of fun.

I *REALLY* like these tips. So simple, yet looks like they would be effective. I don't seven need to pick up movement trays (which I would have to transition out of later anyway)!

get a dice cup. That way you can load 40-60 dice and roll them at once. Also, it scares the snotling out of your opponent that you need a dice cup.

Not only would I consider movement trays, you might consider magnetic trays. You should be able to get a case that holds the trays, so you can bring the boys deployed onto their tray right to the game, then deploy the tray on the board.

Also, just because you start the army with 90 boys and 80 grots doesn't mean that you always have to play that way. As you play the game, you might slowly branch out into other, more point-intensive models, depending on your play style and your feelings about the model in question. You may eventually field smaller amounts of grots or boys for more vehicles, walkers, or even aircraft. But you'll always have that horde of boys and grots to use, either to switch up the army, or to field a larger force once in a while.

Da Butcha wrote:
Not only would I consider movement trays, you might consider magnetic trays. You should be able to get a case that holds the trays, so you can bring the boys deployed onto their tray right to the game, then deploy the tray on the board.

Also, just because you start the army with 90 boys and 80 grots doesn't mean that you always have to play that way. As you play the game, you might slowly branch out into other, more point-intensive models, depending on your play style and your feelings about the model in question. You may eventually field smaller amounts of grots or boys for more vehicles, walkers, or even aircraft. But you'll always have that horde of boys and grots to use, either to switch up the army, or to field a larger force once in a while.

Would you happen to have any suggestions for which movement trays with which case?

I already have a Battle Foam 720 case, and if I could get some which work with the existing case, all the better; otherwise, please let me know. Thanks!

Goreshrek wrote:
get a dice cup. That way you can load 40-60 dice and roll them at once. Also, it scares the snotling out of your opponent that you need a dice cup.

And a tray to roll them in. Prevents lost dice and knocked models.

I would never consider playing the game without magnetized trays anymore. Not using them on the table unless its a rank and flank game like old WFB but just for moving the models around and storage.

For small skirmish games with 10-15 models it doesn't take much time to pick the models up from their foam trays and deploy on the table. But when you get to 50+ it adds up quite a lot. If playing multiple games during a day or weekend just handling all those models might take you over an hour that isn't just game play.

I use magnetic trays even for my blood angels. Multiple trays that fits 5 models each and store the trays on a shelf or in a case with removable metal shelves. Each squad takes 1-2 trays and I have 1 tray for my characters. Goes really fast to put my army on the table to show my opponent. Just take the whole shelf with all my trays on it from its bag and the army is presented and ready in just a few seconds.

Then for deploying I just pick up a tray with the whole squad and remove them from it and deploy the models on the table. Then I put that tray to the side of the table and whenever I suffer a casualty I put the model back on the correct tray. This way my army will still be organized when a game is over and I will easily see if I have missed a scout in a ruin or something. No sorting or packing up or away between games.

This really speeds up everything around the game and gives you more time to actually play rather than doing logistics. Might not speed up the actual game by much but it is still worth it. I get time to do more fun stuff now than just packing minis in a case. It really sucks when you spend 30min unpacking and deploying just to get crushed after 30min and then have to spend another 30min sorting out and packing things away. 1h of work for 30min gameplay. Now it just takes 5min to get ready and it doesnt feel that bad to loose fast when its 10 min work and 30min playing. Could easily just get another game in and set up in 5 min for that.

So use trays if you want to speed things up.

And sort your dice. When I played my BA with a lot of time consuming guard elements in it I went from using 36 white dice to 20 white, 10 black and 6 red in my dice cube. Also had 4x2 of different dice for my rapid fire plasma squads. Kept the dice separated in different piles during the games(if I had to sort I did it when my opponent did actions) so if I had to roll my plasma I could just pick up and roll those 8(2 blue, 2 green, 2 yellow, 2 purple) dice or if I had 32 attacks in melee I took all the white, the black and only had to actually count out 2 red dice. If it were 29 dice I took the white and all but one of the black etc. Saves a lot of time.

Also get some measuring sticks. I have 6" and 9" that I use quite often, with 1",2" and 3" on the ends. It is hard to use a measuring tape accurately and fast in more crowded areas when it comes to smaller measurements. Having those measuring tools can really speed up your normal movement, deepstrikes(that 9" really comes handy in those situations), charges and especially pile ins and consolidations. Checking 1" engagement range or 2" coherency also becomes a breeze.

Doing these things could easily half the time, or more, that you spend on doing time consuming tasks. It is almost a requirement to do some of these things if you are playing a horde army at a tournament unless you love self imposed stress.

dbecer01 wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:
Not only would I consider movement trays, you might consider magnetic trays. You should be able to get a case that holds the trays, so you can bring the boys deployed onto their tray right to the game, then deploy the tray on the board.

Also, just because you start the army with 90 boys and 80 grots doesn't mean that you always have to play that way. As you play the game, you might slowly branch out into other, more point-intensive models, depending on your play style and your feelings about the model in question. You may eventually field smaller amounts of grots or boys for more vehicles, walkers, or even aircraft. But you'll always have that horde of boys and grots to use, either to switch up the army, or to field a larger force once in a while.

Would you happen to have any suggestions for which movement trays with which case?

I already have a Battle Foam 720 case, and if I could get some which work with the existing case, all the better; otherwise, please let me know. Thanks!

Since you already have the 720 case, check out the Magna Rack by BF. It's made to work with the 720 for transport.

After that just Google magnetic movement trays & take your pick of what comes up.

Heavy Duty Bamboxes with tote tray and handle are still by far the best model transport option in my opinion. Recycled plastic, only £17.50, extremely durable.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Heavy-Duty-BamBox-Plastic-Tool-Storage-Box-With-Aluminium-Handle-Tote-Tray-/391763898671?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

The 'extra large' ones fit 3000+ points of my armies no problem. A lot of infantry fits in the tote tray, and you can easily fit a small multi-layer box inside for additional infantry (or glue shelves in). Plenty of room for large models under the tote tray too (The Void Dragon fits under there...!). Glue some steel paper to the bottom of the case and the tote tray et voila.

About rolling too many dice... Orks are in the average now, SM lists typically need much more time to roll all their dice.

dbecer01 wrote:
I was thinking of playing Goff, as they would be str 5, and wouldn't be largely useless attacks (Like I used to with my guardsmen and their str 3 guns).

Maybe I need movement trays too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warptide wrote:
There are tricks to moving and attack with lots of models. Have your dice arranged so you can grab 10, 20, 30, etc. all in one go and reroll as needed to get your 60/90/120 shots or attacks. When moving it helps to measure out the critical models on the edge of the unit, then you can just double hand dart up the rest of the models within that boundary you know to by 6". If you want to pick up the horde, I say go for it. It's a lot of fun.

I *REALLY* like these tips. So simple, yet looks like they would be effective. I don't seven need to pick up movement trays (which I would have to transition out of later anyway)!

There is little I can add. Movement trays, pre-counting dice while your opponent is doing stuff and different colors of dice go a long way.

Some more advice on Goff would be getting Thrakka. Not only is he a great model which will make your 90 boyz even more powerful, he also eats up 300 points and doesn't take a lot of time to resolve
Same goes for MANz. They fit the goff theme, are dead killy and also don't require buckets of dice.

Beyond that, definitely get some shooting. Tank bustas (arriving from the tellyporta) or mek guns would be good choices for a goff army. There are some things that you can't reach with just footslogging boyz, so you need to be able to blow up stuff from a distance.

I guess there must be an dice rolling app, where you type in the number of dice and get the result in seconds.

Maybe even one for Warhammer use, you type in numbers for attacks, to hit, to wound, tick boxes for "re-roll 1s to hit" "re-roll to wound" and it gives you the total number of Wounds inflicted in a second. (and save everyone the boring "operate the game for 20minutes rolling and counting dice before you can continue playing" phase .)

If there's none, maybe someone should make one. It doesn't look complicated at all for someone who programs things. I will ask my wife.

 Blackie wrote:
About rolling too many dice... Orks are in the average now, SM lists typically need much more time to roll all their dice.

Err ... how so?

dbecer01 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
About rolling too many dice... Orks are in the average now, SM lists typically need much more time to roll all their dice.

Err ... how so?

Well. There's unit that alone shoots over 100. Repulsors throw tons dice. Rerolls on everything to hit and wound so more dice roll.

Sisters of battle also has unit that requires 190 and spare rolls before opponent gets to roll saves

Orks ain't only army rolling piles of dice.

Dice app helps but some opponents won't allow

You can just use an official dice app.

All tales about people hacking their dice apps are just urban myths.

dbecer01 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
About rolling too many dice... Orks are in the average now, SM lists typically need much more time to roll all their dice.

Err ... how so?

30 orkz in the shooting phase get 60 shots for 240pts at 18' range, only rerolls are from DDD (1/6th of the dice, and Bad Moonz reroll 1s). A single aggressor can get 12 shots each for 45pts, if a LT/Captain or specific chapter is used you can theoretically get rerolls to hit, to wound, exploding dice etc. Basically Orkz no longer are the masters of throwing dice What is worse, their accuracy has remained abysmal so the disparity in damage output has increased as well (hopefully this gets addressed in the new codex).

In CC orkz definitely get more attacks on average, but not as many as you would think, especially with the increase in Base size, smaller CC foot print and new rules for who is allowed to fight.

A lot of the suggestions here cover the big strokes. Mainly, it should be noted, that you'll be fine simply by being self aware. Problem is that a lot of slowplayers aren't aware of things they do that drag things out.

Had one guy in our group who would roll hits, then count out each hit then count out that many dice again to roll wounds. It drove me up the wall.

For my condensed list:

MAGNETIZE your bases and use trays. Even if you don't use movement trays get cheap cookie sheets and transport your army on those. Movement trays might only be useful for deployment more often than not...but that's mroe than enough to speed up your day.

RULES and learning them thoroughly. I'm naturally good at this; if you're not make yourself an exel cheatsheet of your stuff to remember things and use it as a flash card and alter it as you need. I still have been meaning to make one up for my explosions for my vehicles since they're all over the place.

DICE as stated above. I, personally, loved the Ork dice from GW and got a box. They came 20 in a box and, thus, I always use 20 dice when I play.

I split them into lots of 5 for quicker pickups but since I know I have 20 I can easily pickup what I need. 44 Melee attacks? I roll 20 dice in two sets and pull 4 of my misses in the last roll and declare I'm using them for my last 4. Speeds things up immensely.

Don't worry too much about how MANY attacks or shots you're rolling, just clean up your process: "These 30 Shoota boyz are firing everything at that Rhino for 60 Shots. I'll roll my 20 standard dice 3 times. I need 5s and 5s. Then just throw them and immediately start pulling your misses. If you do it that way You keep the flow and pulling misses can't be called out since if you accidently pull a hit your opponent won't pitch a fit and slow the game down.

I also use GWs nice squig dice for my wound markers (and d8s, d10s, etc for bigger models) since they don't play well for normal rolling and you should NEVER use your rolling dice to mark wounds.

The suggestion for different colored dice is also a good one...it's just far less useful for Orks due to the lack of a ton of special weapon combos combined with regular shots being so voluminous that you might as well fire special shots first (VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU PLAY DEFFSKULLZ) then bucket the rest.

PLANNING and thinking ahead in order to just move. It can be argued that moving hordes of Orks and Grots slows the game down; but I would argue that thinking slows the game far more than moving does. So consider what you're going to do with your mountains of green muscle as early as you can and commit to it when it's time to move. Move hordes with two hands so you're moving twice as many models and half as likely to drop a tray.

FLOW and COMFORT just enjoy yourself. Get into your army and learn the inns and outs so you're not second guessing yourself. The above dice guy also had huge issues with confidence in his army and decisions which drew out the game more. Even if you're wrong or making a bad move, but aren't sure, go with it...especially early on. Learn from your mistakes. I take notes of all my games now to help me learn better and faster from errors.

HAVE FUN and enjoy the game. Hope you dive into the Ork way of life cuz it's the best both in lore/fun and in power. People don't tend to agree but Orks have, possibly, the strongest lists you can bring in 8th and 9th. It takes full understanding of the game system and the rules so that would be down the road. Just play what's fun and get what you like for now

Merry Christmas to everyone, and thanks for all of these responses. I really love all of these posts. They're really helpful, and really making me feel better about pushing the button on this thing. Also seems like you Ork guys, are a big and friendly community. Appreciate it!

 Jidmah wrote:
You can just use an official dice app.

All tales about people hacking their dice apps are just urban myths.

Doesn't really matter is it officiallyl or some other from google play. Actually non-gw ones are likely better. Q is can opponent trust it is from there. It's fairly trivial to do own program that looks 100% identical to official one. I could do it and i'm not claiming to be super programmer.

In the end permission depends on opponent. If opponent says no then either you don't use　it or game　stops there. And in tournament that's your forfeit loss then.

It's silly worry but fact is not everybody wants it to be used and you can't force it to be　used.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
You can just use an official dice app.

All tales about people hacking their dice apps are just urban myths.

Doesn't really matter is it officiallyl or some other from google play. Actually non-gw ones are likely better. Q is can opponent trust it is from there. It's fairly trivial to do own program that looks 100% identical to official one. I could do it and i'm not claiming to be super programmer.

Ok, I'll bet you on that. You manipulate this app in a way that you can fudge dice rolls, and I buy you any single 40k kit sold by the GW online store you want:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.LostTitleStudios.WH40KDiceCom

If you take the bet and fail to deliver within 3 months, you'll delete your dakka account and never return.

Oh, and I won't be mad if you don't take it. Despite your claims, I know it's not possible to do. Creating loaded real dice from scratch is much less effort.

TBH if someone goes to such lengths so as to tamper with a dice app code, they may as well cheat in a multitude of other ways (weighted dice for instance). If you think an opponent may be such a person I guess it's just best not to play them. We know who is the real loser in this situation anyway.

On the other hand I was thinking if a less ambiguous way of doing it would be to set up a website with such a dice engine. You can't tamper with the code of an outside source, like someone else's website and both players can actually use the same site.

My wife is actually interested in creating something like this as a simple programming exercise. Do you think people would like to use such a mobile-friendly site to determine, for example, the number of wounds from 60 attacks re-rolling 1s in just a few seconds?

Q is can opponent trust it is from there. It's fairly trivial to do own program that looks 100% identical to official one. I could do it and i'm not claiming to be super programmer

.

This is peak Dakka right here. “3d printing will end GW even though the “black market” using a far faster, less expensive, easier and more accessible method has not hurt them.” “You can’t trust dice apps because they are likely hacked, so you should just use real dice even though it’s a lot easier to just get doctored dice than it is to hack an app”

To the OP - Dice apps pretty much became a requirement in my area during 8th due to the amount of dice almost every army was rolling. I think the one we use is called “Dice Roller”. It’s fast, easy, and we have seen results similar to if we were rolling the actual dice (ie - I pretty much always miss, or hit and cause no wounds lol/jk ) so it’s been a pretty good app for us and a huge time saver. I highly recommend going this route provided your group is cool with it. It will save everyone a lot of time and you’ll have less dice to have to carry.

You can still roll actual dice for the smaller rolls, and then just lean on the app for the big/cumbersome stuff.