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 Kanluwen wrote:
Without putting you on the spot JonWebb, what would you envision as a NCR starter in plastic?

Its certainly not top of the list.

The New Vegas crowd are a passionate bunch for sure, but they are not as large as we anticipated.

My "core four" are always the BoS,Survivors, Super Mutants and Raiders as they appear in almost every Fallout game, so they will be a priority for sure.

After that, let's see where we end up.

We are talking 2025 onwards for this mind you, poor Colin can only sculpt so fast and its 3-4 months per set for him.

EDIT: I think I slightly misread what you asked Kan. So, I'll try again What would be in it... 8-10 minis, based on the core of a faction, with each model having at least two heads and arm options plus some generic upgrades that can detail any of the models. At least that's what we have for the gangs we've done so far

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Without putting you on the spot JonWebb, what would you envision as a NCR starter in plastic?

Its certainly not top of the list.

The New Vegas crowd are a passionate bunch for sure, but they are not as large as we anticipated.

My "core four" are always the BoS,Survivors, Super Mutants and Raiders as they appear in almost every Fallout game, so they will be a priority for sure.

After that, let's see where we end up.

We are talking 2025 onwards for this mind you, poor Colin can only sculpt so fast and its 3-4 months per set for him.

We are passionate and I've been learning we're not as smart as the rest of the groups, because a lot of New Vegas players didn't even know there was a miniature game! Like a scary about of people I've talked to who love NCR/New Vegas content didn't know Wasteland Warfare even existed!

 Togusa wrote:

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Without putting you on the spot JonWebb, what would you envision as a NCR starter in plastic?

Its certainly not top of the list.

The New Vegas crowd are a passionate bunch for sure, but they are not as large as we anticipated.

My "core four" are always the BoS,Survivors, Super Mutants and Raiders as they appear in almost every Fallout game, so they will be a priority for sure.

After that, let's see where we end up.

We are talking 2025 onwards for this mind you, poor Colin can only sculpt so fast and its 3-4 months per set for him.

We are passionate and I've been learning we're not as smart as the rest of the groups, because a lot of New Vegas players didn't even know there was a miniature game! Like a scary about of people I've talked to who love NCR/New Vegas content didn't know Wasteland Warfare even existed!

I know there's been some cross posts on reddit to the new vegas sub from FWW but they don't get much traction including an amazing board made by Crafty Ric. "merch" advertising doesn't seam to do well on any of the fallout subreddits and images are banned on several of them.

Also it's surprising to many people how much more Fallout 4 sold then the other Fallout games in it's first few years of release and is Bethesda's best selling launch title from what I understand heavily outselling Skyrim.

 Togusa wrote:

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Without putting you on the spot JonWebb, what would you envision as a NCR starter in plastic?

Its certainly not top of the list.

The New Vegas crowd are a passionate bunch for sure, but they are not as large as we anticipated.

My "core four" are always the BoS,Survivors, Super Mutants and Raiders as they appear in almost every Fallout game, so they will be a priority for sure.

After that, let's see where we end up.

We are talking 2025 onwards for this mind you, poor Colin can only sculpt so fast and its 3-4 months per set for him.

We are passionate and I've been learning we're not as smart as the rest of the groups, because a lot of New Vegas players didn't even know there was a miniature game! Like a scary about of people I've talked to who love NCR/New Vegas content didn't know Wasteland Warfare even existed!

If I had a pound for every person who didn't know there was a Fallout minis game I could start my own damn plastics factory

We still struggle to get the word out there for sure. Hopefully as events start to open up again we can get back on the road and get folks involved.

Personal take, and I hope you're not offended:
Part of it is that as much as websales dominate things...it helps a lot to have shelf presence too. I knew of the game, but until I actually had a local shop stocking it? You guys weren't really on my radar for something I'd actively purchase!

Now for crazy wishlisting:
Hopefully if NCR happen, there's a dedicated frame of just the Rangers. That coat+armor combo is just the business.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personal take, and I hope you're not offended:
Part of it is that as much as websales dominate things...it helps a lot to have shelf presence too. I knew of the game, but until I actually had a local shop stocking it? You guys weren't really on my radar for something I'd actively purchase.

No offence taken

One of the most interesting things with life as I converted from gamer to industry guy is the lessons I learned and the knowledge I gained.

I totally agree that having a store presence is vital to get new blood, but the issue is the distro model is borderline broken... there is so much product getting released now (a good problem to have for sure) that stores can’t and won’t carry it all, and distro struggles to stock and promote everyone.

Plus margins are really not that great in this game and it’s mainly volume that allows us all to survive... so by selling direct we are able to survive on lower runs, you might be surprised what a successful run looks like even with a big name attached... I’m not doing Tactical Squad numbers here...

So, I’d love folks to shop and play at their lgs (as an ex gw store staffer and ex long running press ganger I know how important that is) , but the reality is if it doesn’t ship fast and fit into a limited space, stores are wary these days. And lifestyle games with bigger SKU runs are dangerous...

We have been far from perfect, trust me I know, but even when we have stock available I hear over and over that stores can’t get access and I can only assume distro is not restocking. We do offer direct sales too, but that’s then about a store knowing that and then wanting to deal direct with us and continuing to do so...

You’d be a mug to work in this business

I'll vouch for enclave power armor in plastic, to me the power armor seems like an obvious choice. And I imagine the power armor minis probably sell decent, or at least better than something like caesars legion would.

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personal take, and I hope you're not offended:
Part of it is that as much as websales dominate things...it helps a lot to have shelf presence too. I knew of the game, but until I actually had a local shop stocking it? You guys weren't really on my radar for something I'd actively purchase.

No offence taken

One of the most interesting things with life as I converted from gamer to industry guy is the lessons I learned and the knowledge I gained.

I totally agree that having a store presence is vital to get new blood, but the issue is the distro model is borderline broken... there is so much product getting released now (a good problem to have for sure) that stores can’t and won’t carry it all, and distro struggles to stock and promote everyone.

Plus margins are really not that great in this game and it’s mainly volume that allows us all to survive... so by selling direct we are able to survive on lower runs, you might be surprised what a successful run looks like even with a big name attached... I’m not doing Tactical Squad numbers here...

So, I’d love folks to shop and play at their lgs (as an ex gw store staffer and ex long running press ganger I know how important that is) , but the reality is if it doesn’t ship fast and fit into a limited space, stores are wary these days. And lifestyle games with bigger SKU runs are dangerous...

We have been far from perfect, trust me I know, but even when we have stock available I hear over and over that stores can’t get access and I can only assume distro is not restocking. We do offer direct sales too, but that’s then about a store knowing that and then wanting to deal direct with us and continuing to do so...

You’d be a mug to work in this business

As a small local games store own who loves the game and would like to deal directly, you need to make it easier. Why don,t you send out an up to date stock spreadsheet with your trade emails, llike Asmodee, Warlord, Gamecraft and Simple Miniatures (as was). Why is the spread I do eventually get my hands on spread over 3 sheets, each with a different design, swimming with unwanted info and making it really hard to determine trade price? You want stores to order direct? Make it easy.

Protections or Handys in plastic would also be useful.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personal take, and I hope you're not offended:
Part of it is that as much as websales dominate things...it helps a lot to have shelf presence too. I knew of the game, but until I actually had a local shop stocking it? You guys weren't really on my radar for something I'd actively purchase.

No offence taken

One of the most interesting things with life as I converted from gamer to industry guy is the lessons I learned and the knowledge I gained.

I totally agree that having a store presence is vital to get new blood, but the issue is the distro model is borderline broken... there is so much product getting released now (a good problem to have for sure) that stores can’t and won’t carry it all, and distro struggles to stock and promote everyone.

Plus margins are really not that great in this game and it’s mainly volume that allows us all to survive... so by selling direct we are able to survive on lower runs, you might be surprised what a successful run looks like even with a big name attached... I’m not doing Tactical Squad numbers here...

So, I’d love folks to shop and play at their lgs (as an ex gw store staffer and ex long running press ganger I know how important that is) , but the reality is if it doesn’t ship fast and fit into a limited space, stores are wary these days. And lifestyle games with bigger SKU runs are dangerous...

We have been far from perfect, trust me I know, but even when we have stock available I hear over and over that stores can’t get access and I can only assume distro is not restocking. We do offer direct sales too, but that’s then about a store knowing that and then wanting to deal direct with us and continuing to do so...

You’d be a mug to work in this business

As a small local games store own who loves the game and would like to deal directly, you need to make it easier. Why don,t you send out an up to date stock spreadsheet with your trade emails, llike Asmodee, Warlord, Gamecraft and Simple Miniatures (as was). Why is the spread I do eventually get my hands on spread over 3 sheets, each with a different design, swimming with unwanted info and making it really hard to determine trade price? You want stores to order direct? Make it easy.

I will certainly pass that on to the sales team, thanks for the input!

 Togusa wrote:

 JonWebb wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Without putting you on the spot JonWebb, what would you envision as a NCR starter in plastic?

Its certainly not top of the list.

The New Vegas crowd are a passionate bunch for sure, but they are not as large as we anticipated.

My "core four" are always the BoS,Survivors, Super Mutants and Raiders as they appear in almost every Fallout game, so they will be a priority for sure.

After that, let's see where we end up.

We are talking 2025 onwards for this mind you, poor Colin can only sculpt so fast and its 3-4 months per set for him.

We are passionate and I've been learning we're not as smart as the rest of the groups, because a lot of New Vegas players didn't even know there was a miniature game! Like a scary about of people I've talked to who love NCR/New Vegas content didn't know Wasteland Warfare even existed!

I know a lot of people who'd have been more interested in the New Vegas factions, but were happy to wait because it gave them the opportunity to see whether or not the game would take off or drown in a puddle like so many others. Right now it feels like the game doesn't have enough of a presence for them to take that leap compared to other IP games which have more widespread popularity like Song and Legion. The eternal issue of not being a GW game.

 Arbitrator wrote:

I know a lot of people who'd have been more interested in the New Vegas factions, but were happy to wait because it gave them the opportunity to see whether or not the game would take off or drown in a puddle like so many others. Right now it feels like the game doesn't have enough of a presence for them to take that leap compared to other IP games which have more widespread popularity like Song and Legion. The eternal issue of not being a GW game.

Some of that is obviously down to the IP too; Legion doing well should be a given (though I didn't get the impression that Song was doing that well particularly). The nature of the game mechanics are presumably a factor as well; things like Legion have the advantage of a system that lends itself to an active, structured tournament scene and that in of itself can engender interest or, at least, mean existing players keep up with the product. Wasteland Warfare (and by extension CtA) straddling that wargame/RPG sphere, with an emphasis on narrative driven play is one of their biggest selling points but I can see why it might also inhibit that constant growth cycle.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

I know a lot of people who'd have been more interested in the New Vegas factions, but were happy to wait because it gave them the opportunity to see whether or not the game would take off or drown in a puddle like so many others. Right now it feels like the game doesn't have enough of a presence for them to take that leap compared to other IP games which have more widespread popularity like Song and Legion. The eternal issue of not being a GW game.

Some of that is obviously down to the IP too; Legion doing well should be a given (though I didn't get the impression that Song was doing that well particularly). The nature of the game mechanics are presumably a factor as well; things like Legion have the advantage of a system that lends itself to an active, structured tournament scene and that in of itself can engender interest or, at least, mean existing players keep up with the product. Wasteland Warfare (and by extension CtA) straddling that wargame/RPG sphere, with an emphasis on narrative driven play is one of their biggest selling points but I can see why it might also inhibit that constant growth cycle.

The Sandbox RPG/Narrative stuff -- I love it -- but the game presents itself very poorly that it's hard for lots of people to really grasp what the game is. The rulebook is really just combat only and nothing else. FWW is a game where if there's not a rule saying you cannot do it then you can but as I've waded more into reddit for RPGs and this game I find that many players nowadays need to be expressly told what they can do and FWW makes a lot of assumptions on how people approach gaming. The game needs to be a bit more hand-holdy in areas, which costs money as it means more pages.

An example of this that I got into a bit of a discussion with the rules team on was the new Into the Vault expansion. As you build out a vault all the numbers for "size" are just generic -- like 2x3 -- and no indication on what that is. Well it's intended for you to be able to use any tile/wall set you want and not be stuck with one specific terrain set Modiphius wants to sell you. That's great but it confuses a lot of people as they expect it to be inches and having a few words in the rules to explain that would solve this problem.

Another example is Factions. They're not actually a rule in the game. You just get cards that has a name and some stuff printed on it but noting in the rules talk about it. Well, they're only there for marketing and flavor according to the rules team and they don't need to be balanced as they're optional and you can just make your own rules up (again, from the rules team). That's such a foreign concept to the general wargaming population that you think the book would talk about that. Instead it's just "here's some cards. What do they do? Eh, up to you."

Most people do not go to forums or social media to figure out how to play a game and if the rules are leaving out very simple explanations like that imagine how many people get the rulebook, read it, and have no idea how to set up a game as that's not in the core rules either (and neither is list building) and what's in the campaign book is like half a page each.

If/when there's an updated rulebook there really needs to be a few pages telling people all the different ways you can play and how all the different expansions/modules can be used together.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

I know a lot of people who'd have been more interested in the New Vegas factions, but were happy to wait because it gave them the opportunity to see whether or not the game would take off or drown in a puddle like so many others. Right now it feels like the game doesn't have enough of a presence for them to take that leap compared to other IP games which have more widespread popularity like Song and Legion. The eternal issue of not being a GW game.

Some of that is obviously down to the IP too; Legion doing well should be a given (though I didn't get the impression that Song was doing that well particularly). The nature of the game mechanics are presumably a factor as well; things like Legion have the advantage of a system that lends itself to an active, structured tournament scene and that in of itself can engender interest or, at least, mean existing players keep up with the product. Wasteland Warfare (and by extension CtA) straddling that wargame/RPG sphere, with an emphasis on narrative driven play is one of their biggest selling points but I can see why it might also inhibit that constant growth cycle.

The Sandbox RPG/Narrative stuff -- I love it -- but the game presents itself very poorly that it's hard for lots of people to really grasp what the game is. The rulebook is really just combat only and nothing else. FWW is a game where if there's not a rule saying you cannot do it then you can but as I've waded more into reddit for RPGs and this game I find that many players nowadays need to be expressly told what they can do and FWW makes a lot of assumptions on how people approach gaming. The game needs to be a bit more hand-holdy in areas, which costs money as it means more pages.

An example of this that I got into a bit of a discussion with the rules team on was the new Into the Vault expansion. As you build out a vault all the numbers for "size" are just generic -- like 2x3 -- and no indication on what that is. Well it's intended for you to be able to use any tile/wall set you want and not be stuck with one specific terrain set Modiphius wants to sell you. That's great but it confuses a lot of people and having a few words in the rules to explain that would solve this problem.

Most people do not go to forums or social media to figure out how to play a game and if the rules are leaving out very simple explanations like that imagine how many people get the rulebook, read it, and have no idea how to set up a game as that's not in the core rules either (and neither is list building) and what's in the campaign book is like half a page each.

If/when there's an updated rulebook there really needs to be a few pages telling people all the different ways you can play and how all the different expansions/modules can be used together.

Its a fun time trying to balance my understanding of what an audience wants vs the desires of the boss for sure

I totally agree that things can be ambiguous and the intent is you or your GM work it out, and that isn't great for everyone... gamers often do like to be told what to do for sure.

I'm slowly trying to fix this, but its a lot of legacy stuff to work through for sure.

 JonWebb wrote:


I totally agree that things can be ambiguous and the intent is you or your GM work it out, and that isn't great for everyone... gamers often do like to be told what to do for sure.

I'm slowly trying to fix this, but its a lot of legacy stuff to work through for sure.

I understand there's a lot of effort to all of the above. I've tried writing some guides explaining how to play and extending the rules combining the RPG, Into The Wasteland and Settlement mode and both are very challenging to get into a language that's broader and would be useful to someone that's not just me (or people that like bullet points as much as me).

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 JonWebb wrote:


I totally agree that things can be ambiguous and the intent is you or your GM work it out, and that isn't great for everyone... gamers often do like to be told what to do for sure.

I'm slowly trying to fix this, but its a lot of legacy stuff to work through for sure.

I understand there's a lot of effort to all of the above. I've tried writing some guides explaining how to play and extending the rules combining the RPG, Into The Wasteland and Settlement mode and both are very challenging to get into a language that's broader and would be useful to someone that's not just me (or people that like bullet points as much as me).

We've got a few things in the pipe that will hopefully help onboard people, but as ever I don't want to write cheques I cannot cash, so I'm playing things close to my chest.

No second edition yet, but as and when we get there the main focus will be on simplification without ruining the breadth of the game and easier onboarding for sure.

The balance between everything the game is trying to do and the reality of players trying to access it keeps me up at night, trust me.

Having a bit of trouble finding the unit cards for the Slog expansion, really want to add them to my settlers as it was one of my favourite build locations in the game. Any idea when they are likely to pop up?

They got delayed to next month.

https://www.modiphius.net/blogs/news/fallout-friday-october-2022

So, I picked up the Homestead PDF. I want to preface with the caveat that I've only done the initial skim and not gotten to my full, on-the-couch read-through to digest the rules for play.

That said, my first impression is that it feels like a big step backwards from Into the Vault and Amazingly Awesome Tales #1 in terms of complexity and card-dependence. So much so that that I haven't gotten around to that full read-through yet because I'm honestly not sure it would be worth the effort. My eyes crossed when I got to all the custom-die roll charts in settlement scenarios with the tiny text and awkward column/row layout from clustering die results together.

And don't get me started on what I think about adding SEVENTY-NINE new, print-yourself tiny cards to the Fallout Wasteland Warfare Card Arrangement Game That Also Has Miniatures.

I honestly think it's time for Modiphius to take a step back and consider a new or revised edition that replaces cards with charts where it makes sense and allows for the fact that tons of other wargames do intro sets for new wargamers that add a little box explaining what numerical dice sets are and where to get them. I don't mind complex rules - in fact, I love the complex rules for AI as the core of what makes this such a great solo game. But complex rules plus a determination to use custom dice and ONLY custom dice plus literally hundreds of cards at this point?

The game is bloated to the point where I have a hard time seeing how its supposed to serve the implied purpose of a video gamer's first wargame without running them off screaming back to a computer that will handle all this crap for them.

Here's a great example: In Homestead, you build your settlement by drawing the various structures out on a 36 x 36 grid, each space representing an inch on a 3' x 3' play area in case you want to play out assaults on your settlement. I think that's a great idea and it sounds fun!

Various cards, events, etc can damage your structures, bring an element of risk to your settlement. Also cool. You use the grid to roll up a square, and any structure overlapping the square is what takes the damage. Again, cool! Another good use for your custom map of YOUR settlement!

But to roll that square, you first roll a blue die and an armor die, and cross reference the symbols (with multiple facings of one die or the other sometimes being assigned to a row or column) to narrow down a 1 foot square, then roll the same dice AGAIN, cross reference that, and finally you have your battleship strike on the grid.

You know what other method would get you a precise strike on a 36 x 36 grid? d6 x d6 for one axis, and d6 x d6 for the other. You number the rows and columns 1-36, and there's no cross-referencing symbols on colored dice twice. Just one simple multiplication, another, and boom, grid reference just like Battleship.

I know I've tried to make this point before, and I know it sounds like maybe I don't even like this game. But I do. I love it. And I want it to succeed, and I don't want to have to chase cards like a CCG player and figure out what to do with them all in order to play it! And I don't want to follow rules down a rabbit hole of weird symbols and colors and cross-referencing when no other game seems to doubt new gamers' ability to find and understand the regular d6, d10, and percentile dice.

Fallout Wasteland Warfare is starting to feel like a first draft game with too much crap hanging off of it, and I know Modiphius can do better with another pass at it - look at Elder Scrolls by comparison, and just imagine what another iteration of this ruleset could refine! There's got to be a better way to play this game, and if a second or revised edition would get us there then I for one wouldn't mind buying it.

Four years in is a good run for a first edition, but with card-bloat and complicated symbol-charts, maybe it's time for a refinement and overhaul of the core rules?

I'm certain homestead was one of the older expansions waiting for a release which is why it uses all the custom dice as using normal dice for rolls is a newer thing from this year. The new book that comes out next month has full charts with regular dice for rolling items and such but also give the stats and I believe events are also in there so you never have to use cards for anything but equipment--which will be great for quicker setups.

I don't see a 2nd edition until all the core unit boxes are multipart which is still a few years off. Modiphius is also in a hard space because of the volume of cards. If they completely walk away from them in a 2nd edition a lot of people will be mad same with keeping them but changing the game enough and making people rebuy them. There are so many it's really not like other games with unit cards where you just need a $15-$20 expenditure every 4-5 years for the up to date stats. With FWW it's over a hundred for all the equipment and units alone.

I go back and forth on the cards. I like them for things like into the vault for the random determination but don't feel they add much for game setup for Into the Wasteland and in fact slow that process down for that game mode and limit fan expansions.

With Homestead the majority of the cards are events -- which supplement the existing event system which is card based. Events are one of the few decks I don't mind making as I just do true random shuffle of everything and never bother curating it but now I've got cards that are for a very specific purpose, settlement/homestead, and adding/removing those will be a pain. Having their own symbol on the cards to sort out is a good thing, and I'm glad those were added so I can easy sort stuff out. I'd actually like random building size/shape cards too as I think that would be fun way of quickly setting up a settlement but it's something that can easy be fan made. There's a tactile-ness for layout that make cards feel better then dice and carts.

Also these past 3 expansions being print and play makes me dislike the cards more as while it's fine for into the vault where they're their own deck having all these event cards that don't mix is a bit annoying as I really just won't be mixing them until an official print is out (if ever) and I think that adds to some frustration towards cards themselves.

And I don't want to follow rules down a rabbit hole of weird symbols and colors and cross-referencing when no other game seems to doubt new gamers' ability to find and understand the regular d6, d10, and percentile dice.

Someone has never played a Fantasy Flight game before. They're way more into stuff like this then Modiphius and have had some of the most popular tabletop games ever in X-wing. I'm certain FFG's Starwars stuff is more what Modiphius was aiming for with FWW as it's hard not to see similarities in just about everything you brought up in that sentence and at the time of FWW's initial development X-wing was the king.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm certain homestead was one of the older expansions waiting for a release which is why it uses all the custom dice as using normal dice for rolls is a newer thing from this year. The new book that comes out next month has full charts with regular dice for rolling items and such but also give the stats and I believe events are also in there so you never have to use cards for anything but equipment--which will be great for quicker setups.

Oh, that's right. This one was delayed for a long time, right? That explains the giant step backwards.

I don't see a 2nd edition until all the core unit boxes are multipart which is still a few years off. Modiphius is also in a hard space because of the volume of cards. If they completely walk away from them in a 2nd edition a lot of people will be mad same with keeping them but changing the game enough and making people rebuy them. There are so many it's really not like other games with unit cards where you just need a $15-$20 expenditure every 4-5 years for the up to date stats. With FWW it's over a hundred for all the equipment and units alone.

Right, but that's letting the thing that's becoming the problem also be the hurdle to solving the problem. There's too many cards, but we can't change the game to require fewer cards because people will be mad that we invalidated all those cards they have. Honestly, I for one would just be glad to not have to sort and store hundreds of cards to play a miniatures wargame, especially when a lot of things, like weapons/items, could be consolidated into tables. The cards for all those are already available for free online, why not just switch the format into reference tables. Actually...that's pretty much what the uncut sheets of cards are, right? If they were just a bit better ordered in the layout, and consolidated into a smaller layout...

I go back and forth on the cards. I like them for things like into the vault for the random determination but don't feel they add much for game setup for Into the Wasteland and in fact slow that process down for that game mode and limit fan expansions.

I agree totally with these examples, and it's a great showcase of how cards are good for some things but not others, but this game uses them for everything. Randomized rooms is a great use for the cards! The Into the Wasteland missions and board layouts would have been much easier to reference laid out on a single page in the rulebook, where you can roll a die to randomize just as easily as shuffling cards. When I read the section on choosing a mission, I'd rather flip a few pages and have a block table layout with all the missions with fluff and conditions in one box, not open a separate card PDF where one part is upside down because it's on the back of a card. Modiphius needs to get better at picking and choosing when something belongs on a card and when it belongs in a table, charts, or layout.

With Homestead the majority of the cards are events -- which supplement the existing event system which is card based. Events are one of the few decks I don't mind making as I just do true random shuffle of everything and never bother curating it but now I've got cards that are for a very specific purpose, settlement/homestead, and adding/removing those will be a pain. Having their own symbol on the cards to sort out is a good thing, and I'm glad those were added so I can easy sort stuff out. I'd actually like random building size/shape cards too as I think that would be fun way of quickly setting up a settlement but it's something that can easy be fan made. There's a tactile-ness for layout that make cards feel better then dice and carts.

Events and Explore have so many options that yes, cards would be fine for them in a vacuum. But when you have 79 of those, plus all the other Event and Explore cards, plus every unit and AI card, and item cards, and weapon cards, and if you're using another supplement, maybe vault room or mission and battlefield cards.....where do you put the miniatures and terrain on your table full of cards, layouts, and decks?

Also these past 3 expansions being print and play makes me dislike the cards more as while it's fine for into the vault where they're their own deck having all these event cards that don't mix is a bit annoying as I really just won't be mixing them until an official print is out (if ever) and I think that adds to some frustration towards cards themselves.

Another factor, and one that bothers me, too. Also, what if you don't have a quality color laser printer capable of duplex printing? Inkjets are the most common home printer, and FOWW cards aren't very friendly to them. I've yet to figure out a way to get them to print on mine that doesn't look washed out.

And I don't want to follow rules down a rabbit hole of weird symbols and colors and cross-referencing when no other game seems to doubt new gamers' ability to find and understand the regular d6, d10, and percentile dice.

Someone has never played a Fantasy Flight game before. They're way more into stuff like this then Modiphius and have had some of the most popular tabletop games ever in X-wing. I'm certain FFG's Starwars stuff is more what Modiphius was aiming for with FWW as it's hard not to see similarities in just about everything you brought up in that sentence and at the time of FWW's initial development X-wing was the king.

I own multiple FFG games and played quite a lot of X-Wing first edition, thank you. In fact, it's funny you brought FFG up, because when a friend saw my earlier post and asked me about, I told him that once you include the mini cards, I'm pretty sure I have more cards for FOWW than I do for my complete collection of Arkham Horror second edition. And that's a VERY card heavy boardgame.

And unless they added a ton more with second edition, I think X-Wing only had 4-5 symbols for the upgrade types, 4 symbols for orders, the hit and critical result symbols, and the flight path arrows that were accompanied by an actual number as opposed to a color code for length. If that's the kind of symbol legibility Modiphius was going for with FOWW, then pages 54-55 of the rulebook should abuse anyone of the notion they succeeded pretty quickly. I mean, just the idea that orange or red somehow conveys 2" and 4" better that, you know, a number....well, look at how Elder Scrolls trusts it's players to be able to parse distances in inches without needing colored rulers.

It's just like the use of the cards - the sin isn't using symbols, the sin is using symbols for everything.

The game as it stands is a diamond in the rough. I think it's about time Modiphius spend some time cutting and polishing it.

I think "trusting" the player has nothing do with things but more trying something new. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some instructional design studies showing color relation and James, the original designer, wanting to try something different. Did it work? I don't think we can really say without some type of study but I really only like having 2 measuring "sticks". 2" and 12" (as a ruler) and I don't think the game needs 6 different rulers but I also don't think color = distance isn't horrible or a deterrent to anyone playing.

I'm surprised over the hate of symbols as honestly I don't see anything wrong with them. They're all unique and well designs and, for me at least, no more annoying the keywords. Infinity, for example, had way too many keywords for me and all the keywords cross referenced other keywords. So its all about time it takes to resolve what the rules are and in that front I don't think FWW is bad and replacing the symbols would make any significant change to learning or playing the game.

Replacing the dice for combat with normal dice would be a bad thing though in my opinion as you'd have to just roll a lot more dice for the same effect and look up too many charts. If you're going to get rid of them might as well just through the whole game system away and start fresh.

Again, it's not a hate for symbols, it's the use of symbols for everything meaning everything has a symbol. Take a look again at pages 54-55 and think about what that must look like for someone without any system mastery yet or, worse, just coming into wargaming as a video gamer who loves Fallout.

Also, nothing wrong with the custom dice - I quite like them and think they're one of the best parts of the system. I just think that the dice symbols should be the majority of the symbols used in the game, aside from perhaps classification symbols like Pistol, Rifle, Grenade, etc. But they're terrible for chart or random number generation - that's where I think the game needs to explain and utilize the stolid d3, d6, d10, and d100 as needed. Ideally in a system where rolls on tables replace card draws for some of the more applicable things. For example, the curated Wasteland decks in many of the newer books' scenarios could be numbered for dice usage instead of requiring you to sort through your hundreds of cards to build that specific deck. Even the AI matrix would be more intuitive if you used a d3 or d6 instead of needing to cross reference the dice symbols, sometimes with multiple facings' symbols representing one result.

That’s some great suggestions here. I’d be all for an overhaul as well, as I’ll second the bloat issue. Here’s some points I dislike:

- Too many cards and choices without meaning. There’s literally no difference between some weapon options, so why am I burdened with inconsequential choices?
- Unsuited for competitive play: I guess its really difficult to properly balance the factions, but I think some are just so much more powerful than others. If this is about narrative play, then why is there so little narration?
- The app should be free and it should be a website. I really dig what Corvus Belli is doing with Infinity and the army builder. It gives them a ton of data about how he game is actually played and lets them sharpen the meta.
- Which might be the main point is that Modiphius seems to be driven only by profit and margins. I just don’t feel the love. I do feel the love in the FWW product team, that’s not what I meant. It’s just that vibe that I get from upper management.
- If there’re no weapon options for the models then why can I equip different loadouts. Would it be such a step down to fix model outfits like in Infinity? It would also make balancing a lot easier.
- Please no more custom dice.

Stuff I like:

- The models are fantastic even though it should be easier to prime them. Casting quality has improved.
- Love the colored range rulers but I did write big fat numbers on them. I use them in pretty much all my skirmish games.
- The hero mechanic with critical points is a bonus.
- I like how model activation works, that’s pretty unique.
- Solo mode is excellent.

Mitnick wrote:

- The app should be free and it should be a website. I really dig what Corvus Belli is doing with Infinity and the army builder. It gives them a ton of data about how he game is actually played and lets them sharpen the meta.
- Which might be the main point is that Modiphius seems to be driven only by profit and margins. I just don’t feel the love. I do feel the love in the FWW product team, that’s not what I meant. It’s just that vibe that I get from upper management.

I don't think people realize how expensive apps/websites are to dev. CB got lucky as army started as a fan project and was maintained for years by V with little or no pay before they brought him on part way though N3 after Infinity had exploded in popularity. If Modiphius were to hire me full time, for example, I'd expect at least $250k a year in pay and benefits. Contracting out a website like Army would cost 100k+ for it to be good (and that doesn't include maintenance) and I'd be really surprised if Modiphius had that laying around for one game. Granted I'm on the expensive end as I have a lot of experience in development but even junior devs with no experience out where I live make roughly around $170k once you add in the benefits (like insurance) and I'm not even in California/New York/Portland/Seattle area where it's expensive to live.

Amazon BF. Discount isn't much, but wasn't able to find these figures at a lower price with a search.

Modiphius Fallout - Wasteland Warfare - Railroad Operatives, Multi : $32
Modiphius Fallout - Wasteland Wafare - Gunners Conquerors of Quincy,Multi : $28 on Amazon : $21 at Boarding School Games (no free shipping)

https://www.amazon.com/deal/9e3a37ac?ref=dlx_deals_gd_dcl_img_597_9e3a37ac_dt_sl15_9b
https://www.boardingschoolgames.com/products/fallout-wasteland-warfare-gunners-conquerors-of-quincy

I should add last weeks releases.

Into the Wasteland is getting a print next month.

Forged in the Fire book/cards is avalible as of today https://www.modiphius.net/collections/fallout-wasteland-warfare/products/fallout-wasteland-warfare-accessories-forged-in-the-fire-rules-expansion

A bunch of bugs got released as well as new STLs for smaller, no need to design yourself, Red Rockets.



Also this exists. It's not FWW but it does look like Modiphius is exploring more print on demand and is likely what Jon was hinting at in the Star Trek thread.

https://only-games.co/products/achtung-cthulhu-nachtwolfe-sturmtroopers



only $25 which is pretty good priced as those look to be 40mm bases and are quite bulky.

The Vault Girl is also available via only-games which is MyMiniFactory's print on demand service.

Hey all.

We've reached the end of the year and nearly the end of the Forged in the Fire wave. The last few sets will be out in January but while we wait for them to arrive, we are going to be hosting another reveal stream on Friday 16th. This one will be an hour long and be Fallout exclusive, where we will go over all the models coming in Wave 8 (Capital) including our first Fallout hard plastic kits.

Kickoff will be 16:00 UK time via the Twitch channel.

We will be joined by our new studio painter, Callum, who might be showing off some of the Wave 9 (Nuka World) sets he's recently worked on.

Joining him will be myself, Jonny our head sculptor and AV boss Steve to run the technicals.

Hope to see folks there.

While we've got no physical releases this month, we did sneak one more STL release in for our 3D printing project. The Art Deco statues make for great decorations to theme your MDF buildings with some Fallout vibes, you could even scale them up and stick them on your walls at home for a real discussion piece

Cool, I'll have to remember that on Friday. Looking forward to it.

Wave 8 Releases.





Promo figure










plastic kit






Nuka-World (wave 9) Previews