Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/03 20:53:18
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly how I felt. It was really interesting seeing everyone go back to the lives they left behind to become TVA agents, and the slow, insidious destruction of... well, everything was creepy and unsettling, but we pretty much end up exactly where the episode began.Very intrigued to see how they end this.
Echo looks brutally violent. Not a bad thing by any means, I just wasn't expecting Punisher vibes. It looks closer to the Netflix Marvel outings than anything Disney + has done. While I wouldn't say I'm excited to watch it, I'll definitely at least try it after that trailer.
Grimskul wrote: Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
The people making Echo are completely different from the people making Boba. False equivalency.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Grimskul wrote: Doesn't look particularly interesting, and after Disney's failed attempts to make Boba a proper crimelord I can't really take them seriously in trying to make a crime focused story work out properly. Let's hope this isn't the show equivalent of the terrible The Quiet Man videogame.
The people making Echo are completely different from the people making Boba. False equivalency.
Quality control for shows on both the MCU and SW front is pretty poor in terms of track record the past couple years barring a few exceptions, so I don't think it's unwarranted to feel this is more of the same. I mean Wilson Fisk's first official showing in the MCU in Hawkeye's TV show wasn't particularly great either so I think it's a bit early to jump out of your seat to defend them that this is going to be "proppa dark and gritty".
Well... that was an ending I didn't quite understand.
Spoiler:
So... it was the loom that was destroying everything? Because it was a failsafe? I'm assuming that's why Loki destroyed it, so that reality would stop turning into spaghetti everywhere. Do I have that right?
I don't at all understand what he did grabbing all the threads at the end and sitting on his space throne. Completely went over my head.
Also, the off hand comment about Earth 616 'adjacent' - was that a reference to the events of Quantumania? Is that what they were talking about? I remember there was a fan theory that Scott didn't actually return to his reality, did he go to an 'adjacent' version?
Not a super satisfying ending to the series for me. I don't know if I wasn't smart enough to connect all the dots or if they were just spinning too many plates at once.
Absolutely loved how they did that. One of the better bits of MCU in a while. As for what happened:
Spoiler:
You've got the right of it. The Loom's purpose is essentially to monitor that the TVA is doing their job. If they don't prune enough timelines in overloads and destroys everything except the Sacred Timeline, including the TVA, so He Who Remains can install a new version of the TVA to do the job properly.
It does however, seem that the branches need tending to survive. Loki in the end weaves them himself into what seems to be Yggdrasil and takes HWR's seat as the keeper of time. Effectively he shapes the multiverse into something that can coexist, much like his father kept watch over the 9 realms.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FYI, as to the how:
Spoiler:
Loki spends the episode mastering HWR's power over time. Initially its only through controlling his Time Skipping, but by the end he starts learning things like the time stop.
I don't think they ever explicitly explain why he can do this but beyond being a god, it's fairly heavily implied it has to do with being at the end of time. Sylvie also seems relatively unaffected by time phenomena. Whenever a thread dies she's more or less fine and walks away from it even after others around her unravel. She's just not motivated to act in any way, wanting to just be left alone and so never starts involuntarily using things like time slipping the way Loki does.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/10 14:18:07
LunarSol wrote: Absolutely loved how they did that. One of the better bits of MCU in a while. As for what happened:
Spoiler:
You've got the right of it. The Loom's purpose is essentially to monitor that the TVA is doing their job. If they don't prune enough timelines in overloads and destroys everything except the Sacred Timeline, including the TVA, so He Who Remains can install a new version of the TVA to do the job properly.
It does however, seem that the branches need tending to survive. Loki in the end weaves them himself into what seems to be Yggdrasil and takes HWR's seat as the keeper of time. Effectively he shapes the multiverse into something that can coexist, much like his father kept watch over the 9 realms.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FYI, as to the how:
Spoiler:
Loki spends the episode mastering HWR's power over time. Initially its only through controlling his Time Skipping, but by the end he starts learning things like the time stop.
I don't think they ever explicitly explain why he can do this but beyond being a god, it's fairly heavily implied it has to do with being at the end of time. Sylvie also seems relatively unaffected by time phenomena. Whenever a thread dies she's more or less fine and walks away from it even after others around her unravel. She's just not motivated to act in any way, wanting to just be left alone and so never starts involuntarily using things like time slipping the way Loki does.
Spoiler:
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, love that the last episode has the same title as the first one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/10 19:07:02
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
I'll keep the spoiler train rolling, because its honestly a spoiler worthy episode:
Spoiler:
Loki is pretty well set up now for Secret Wars. He's left in a position somewhere between Doom and the Beyonder and well suited to serve a major plot beat somewhere in the story.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Just been to see The Marvels
Spoiler:
Well, that kicked ass!
Bright, bonkers, brilliant. Nothing exactly original overall, but a well made addition to the MCU.
Interestingly? Carol Danvers kinda fails. A lot. She might be a superhuman in skills and powers, but she’s still human. Bad call after bad call. And those failures have consequences. And a high personal price in the end.
And…talk about a mid-credits scene!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/10 21:37:15
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I loved that Loki’s “loom” is Yggdrasil and it suddenly made me realise that the original, fake, timekeepers are a bit reminiscent of the three Norns (maiden, mother, crone) who, IIRC, are supposed to sit at the feet of Yggdrasil and weave the strands of fate. Which seems to be what this new version of the TVA is doing?
Also, I’m guessing that this works on a practical level for both Marvel and Tom; Loki’s effectively trapped at the end of time, so he’s not written out, but they have a good reason as to why he’s not around. And they can always bring him back in if they want, by saying that the event would threaten the timeline. Also, could be a handy way to retcon stuff, having Loki march in like the Colonel in Monty Python saying “that’s far too silly, stop that!”
I'll keep the spoiler train rolling, because its honestly a spoiler worthy episode:
Spoiler:
Loki is pretty well set up now for Secret Wars. He's left in a position somewhere between Doom and the Beyonder and well suited to serve a major plot beat somewhere in the story.
Spoiler:
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I liked Loki season two. I only had the opportunity to watch four episodes in and figured I'd just wait another two weeks and watch it all in one go. So it's interesting to read about the positive reception, since I noticed I'm usually happier with a show when I binge it (even if it's good at one episode a week).
I can't say I understand the thinking behind all the timeline and multiverse stuff, but eh, it's not like that stuff ever works out anyway. I'm content that it didn't actively get in the way of enjoying the show.
And I definitely agree with a point made earlier, it's good to see Loki use magic once in a while.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Geifer wrote: A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
She was (might still be?) The host of the Phoenix Force.
I am not super familiar with her otherwise, but thats a pretty central role.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Deadpool 3: Previously dated on 5/3/24 moves to 7/26/24
Captain America: Brave New World: Previously dated on 7/26/24 moves to 2/14/25
Thunderbolts: Previously dated on 12/20/24 moves to 7/25/25
Blade: Previously dated on 2/14/25 moves to 11/7/25
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Yes, but it's nice to know the dates (and that there will only be one Marvel movie next year ).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Geifer wrote: A question about Echo. Is that a significant character? Obviously as someone who doesn't read comics I wouldn't know Marvel's more obscure characters. Does she get major appearances in the comics or is this just someone's pet project who liked her in Hawkeye enough to give her her own show or whatever?
I don't even know if she goes by Echo in Hawkeye. That name drew a complete blank until I saw the trailer.
She's definitely a D-lister at best. Probably her most notable appearance was being the mysterious Ronin in the New Avengers series that really defined the age of Marvel that the MCU was birthed out of. I know that sounds like something important, but in reality Ronin was supposed to be Daredevil (and obviously written as Daredevil) but Bendis didn't get permission so he had to find a DD adjacent character to use instead. That doesn't make her a bad character mind you, just one who's gotten little attention until recently.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Overall I think I’d rather “too few” and they be taking the time to get things right than “well, if we cut corners” just to get two in a year.
Wonder what TV shows are slated for next year?
NWO apparently didn't go over well with test audiences at all and is being heavily reworked.
The rumor mill is that Mahershala Ali was furious that his role as the title character was more of a support/mentor role and not really a movie at all about Blade at all. Sounds like that one is going back to the drawing board.
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Spoiler:
This isn't in the show at all, but both HWR and Loki are effectively serving the role of Atlez from the comics. He's literally just a guy that sits on a throne to prevent the multiverse from falling into the abyss.
Loki's decision here is definitely framed as a sacrifice. Even if he doesn't die, he's giving up his life so that the multiverse can live.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/11/13 14:58:45
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Well, yes, obviously. But beyond 'this is an ending and its a sacrifice'... what is there to say? That's what I mean by abrupt and a stack of questions with no worthwhile answers.
Its over and just sort of yadda-yaddas (and off-screen montages) its way out.
I'm not sure. They way they've set things up, _everything _ is dependent on Loki being where he is, forever. All of the Marvel multiverse derives from Loki making it green. That's... odd. And, imo, limiting.
They, at least in theory, claim that its an alternative to the Sacred Timeline and pruning everything else, but I don't see how Loki alone(or this setup) can sustain an infinitely branching multiverse. Or even a single universe.
The audience kinda just has to accept that this works and is better.
I dunno. Its abrupt and opens a stack of metaphysical questions that don't have worthwhile answers.
I think it's definitely meant to be an ending. One where they can do more, but its meant to be a sacrifice much like how HWR's wanted to be done with the job.
Well, yes, obviously. But beyond 'this is an ending and its a sacrifice'... what is there to say? That's what I mean by abrupt and a stack of questions with no worthwhile answers.
Its over and just sort of yadda-yaddas (and off-screen montages) its way out.
And that's the issue with multiverses and time travel. In theory, we could have Loki Ygg grab a variant Loki, and send him on whatever adventure needs doing. Or, just training and grooming a replacement Loki to take his place, and the original returns to the movies and series.
My personal theory about the time thing?
Spoiler:
Sylvi's got HWR tempad, which probably incorporates protection from most time shenanigans. Loki on the other hand- was likely enhanced by HWR with the express idea of Loki eventually taking his place. No other variants exhibit time powers, nor does the Loki Variant until after encountering HWR. OB comments he's like an upgraded Tempad, which may support it. Otherwise, pure conjecture on my part.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
).