Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pretty trash to re-open with a sale while you have a pile of outstanding orders you won't chew through in your life.


But yea at least they have their own minis that aren't a copy of anything

I imagine that the annual Halloween sale provides a major cash injection that they can't afford to miss.

There's a few models that I'd like from their collection, but as noted earlier the fact that they are already behind on a lot of orders before this - and the fact that the few I checked were listed as out of stock - means that I really don't feel like spending.

Whilst I'm down with things like Kickstarter, I feel like they aren't in a strong position to deliver on orders if they've still got lots outstanding from before.



It's a rock and a hardplace situation and I apprecate that it takes money to keep the lights on to keep the flow of production going. to clear the backlog. That running costs are often what kills firms when they get into trouble. At the same time I think they'd be better suited selling out or merging/partnering up with a larger store or such that can just help them through this period with a cash investment/injection. At the very least to clear regular orders and then have smoother runnign to chip away at the Kickstarter.

I placed my last order with them during their last Halloween sale and had that one partially refunded after almost half a year of waiting with no communications. Only when I put in my request for a refund did all of the sudden communications happen..! Resin master was offered for the missing model, but at that point all good faith had already been pissed away for us.

I like the models, but under current mismanagement I am no longer willing to buy stuff from them, way too unreliable and to be completely honest.. the owner is tone deaf and blind to what's going on.

 BrookM wrote:
I like the models, but under current mismanagement I am no longer willing to buy stuff from them, way too unreliable and to be completely honest.. the owner is tone deaf and blind to what's going on.

Blind? Doubtful. He's likely just kicking the can/running out the clock. It's probably more a combination of being unable and unwilling to do what is the necessary and right thing to do because it has immediate negative consequences for his income. Definitely not blind though as he is fully aware people didn't pay him years ago to kickstart his own personal health and (un)wellness blog.

Artemis isn't the owner, Kev White and his wife are.

and since Kev White is working for GW (i think he still is?) there's probably some sort of blind trust involved for his share of the business which could complicate any potential sale

plus to an extent without him sculpting its a bit of a dead range so less exciting for buyers (they did try out a few other sculptors to do stuff but i never got the idea those sold terribley well)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Artemis isn't the owner, Kev White and his wife are.

Not according to Companies House, it was dissolved ages ago.

 ingtaer wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Artemis isn't the owner, Kev White and his wife are.

Not according to Companies House, it was dissolved ages ago.

Interesting, so who do they have as the owner, is it Artemis?

No-one.

Companies House is only for Limited Companies, and it’s possible to go from Sole Trader/Partnership to Limited Company and back again.

Given a Limited Company is a legal entity in its own right, I’m not sure if doing the above means it’s the same entity throughout or not. I suspect not though.

Wouldn't that mean the owner is now liable for the company's debts? And wouldn't that be a very bad place to be for a company with so many outstanding orders?
Yes, I know I could try looking it up, but I no longer have faith in search engines and instead put my trust in fellow nerds.

I mean... this stuff really isn't hard to find out... they've talked about it numerous times.

From the website:

Kev now works full-time for Games Workshop

So, he's no longer with the business - doesn't sculpt, not involved. This happened around 2022.

The main HF office is currently in Caerphilly, Wales which is where Dameon works. All orders are processed/packed/shipped from there... Sally works out of the home office, in Derbyshire. She is currently working on new products in Zbrush and Illustrator alongside handling initial communications.

As for Hasslefree being dissolved, again, this is covered on there website under the legal section:

Company Name: Black & White Games Ltd. trading as Hasslefree Miniatures, HF Minis & Artemis Black’s

So, in short - from your perspective as a customer - its Dameon. Sal can help with somethings but in terms of your order getting from A to B...

its a bit of a dead range so less exciting for buyers

So, not quite.

Take a look through the Hasslefresian page, and you'll find lots of figures that are finished but just aren't up for sale - I think this is something that was addressed in one of the newsletters. There's a whole bunch of 3d models as well (which given theres a lot of assets clearly made, wouldn't be too hard to expand upon).

I mean I've scrolled back as far as 2018 and found great, finished figures that would sell, that aren't up. I cant imagine the number of half finished figures there must be. And even without new figures, look at places like Ral Patha and Foundary - theres always a market for good miniatures...

Just had a look,

it's now Black & White Games (as of 2014) and the directors are Sally & Artemis (Kev was one too but resigned when he took the GW job)

shows how up to date my knowledge of the world is, sigh (and beaten to it by GomezAddams too, sighs again)

In short? It depends.

Broadly speaking, you’re right. A Limited Company (which I think is directly analogous to a US Incorporated Company?) being a legal entity in its own right, is liable for its own debts.

But, sometimes lending is Guaranteed by a Director, or another Natural Person. So even if the Limited Company is wound up, anyone that Guaranteed lending will still be on the hook if debts remain outstanding.

It’s also possible to be a Guarantor for a Sole Trader, a Partnership or just another person (I was once guarantor for a friend’s borrowing. Worked out OK, but I won’t be doing that again in a hurry). So, if the existing Hasslefree (which could still be a trading name for a thread unidentified Ltd Co) has a Guarantor on any borrowing? They’d be liable if the company goes under, Limited or not.

And that’s about the limit of my knowledge, as that’s all I need to know to my job. There will be subtleties and oddities and more to it, but hopefully this proves useful.

Thanks for the clarification.
Pretty sure I've said this before, but I'll say it again: I really wish they would sell out while there's still a company to sell. There are so many miniatures I've wanted to order for years, but never have because of their ongoing issues.

I got the email and am not super-inclined to buy, largely because I already own just about everything I want from them (and still need to paint most of it), but also because they still owe me for the KS and I, too, am disappointed it didn't even get a mention in the newsletter.

Still. I'd consider buying stuff in the sale, I guess, since PayPal is an option. Can always just open a claim if nowt arrives. I vaguely want the Maidens. Just don't have an actual need for them in a specific army...

Just curious... for those with outstanding orders and unfulfilled pledges, would you be theoretically more or less happy if they ran a promotion where they charged a premium (i.e. higher price) for orders instead of a discounted sale but with a guarantee that they'd be shipped out that week... and the added price premium would be put towards fulfilling your long awaited orders/pledges.

Obviously, there is no real world guarantee that they'd use the extra money for that instead of simply rent/groceries/etc regardless of what would be hypothetically promised but I was curious if people paying extra to cut the line but that extra price used to potentially expedite your own orders would make up for it. Again, hypothetically speaking...

The guarantee would be useless. If I spend $100 and Lucy pulls the football away again (genuinely sympathetic to their plight but eventually you have to stop feeding the meat grinder) I am just out $100.

This was nestled away in the newsletter, which was resent just now:

For those involved with our overdue Kickstarter, i will update straight after this.

So, KS peeps, any updates yet?

There has been a kickstarter update with the claim that "Everything regarding the Kickstarter is still in place, things have even moved on, even if at the same slow pace, while we were closed. More resins have come in, metal moulds have gone off etc."

I'll believe it when I see it.

Everything except the pledge manager which was on track for April 2023 IIRC

And a cryptic "I am going to ask you all what you'd prefer to do about the Pledge Manager." for a future update. Whatever that means. We want it to launch obviously, but the way it's phrased does not inspire confidence.

Well I put together an £80 or so order, added the 20% off coupon... and got £1 or so off, for the two paints. Small print is that the coupon won't work on "new" items, which I'm guessing they're defining as, anything they don't fancy giving a discount on, given that there's no discount on the Maidens (previously announced in the 2023 Halloween sale) or the GID Alpha merc team (old enough that I don't have the email announcing them).

Oh well. I guess I'll wait till next year and see if those are no longer "new".

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Well I put together an £80 or so order, added the 20% off coupon... and got £1 or so off, for the two paints. Small print is that the coupon won't work on "new" items, which I'm guessing they're defining as, anything they don't fancy giving a discount on, given that there's no discount on the Maidens (previously announced in the 2023 Halloween sale) or the GID Alpha merc team (old enough that I don't have the email announcing them).

Oh well. I guess I'll wait till next year and see if those are no longer "new".

New probably means that they have not shipped them out ....ever. Or they never got stock in on them, so they are still new.

You are a much better man than I. I won't send money their way until I start seeing people post they have gotten back orders.

So Kev is working for GW and now Sally White has started a new company

https://www.facebook.com/its.YAY.big

So I guess Artemis is Hasslefree now?

Good luck I guess.

I can't say that I'm surprised considering that Sal has been thinking about closing Hasslefree for a long time. Good luck to her with her new venture.

Anyone still willing to purchase anything from Hasslefree is way more optimistic than I am, that's for sure!

I think people are jumping to weird conclusions here - especially considering the number of other companies large and small where the directors are also directors of other miniatures/miniature adjacent companies. Companies house makes for great reading.

Theres a world of difference between selling cast miniatures, and selling accessories like etched brass on a small scale. I mean this isn't a Prodos situation.

Its really clear this is Sal, even mentions Hasslefree on the page... there no bait and switch here. Its likely you'll see IYB brass appearing on the HF if it proves to have legs, otherwise... no big loss

Sal has been thinking about closing Hasslefree for a long time

I don't know where you get that from...?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Anyone still willing to purchase anything from Hasslefree is way more optimistic than I am, that's for sure!

Honestly, as long as you're in the UK and not the last person to order from them, you should be ok with Paypal's return policies if you stay on top of your order and file for a refund before the cutoff date if they don't ship your complete order in a timely fashion as they'll just reserve the money the company gets from the next customer(s) to use for your refund. It just gets more tricky once you go international though and just don't wait too long before any potential collapse/shutdown.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Theophony wrote:


New probably means that they have not shipped them out ....ever. Or they never got stock in on them, so they are still new.

You are a much better man than I. I won't send money their way until I start seeing people post they have gotten back orders.

Ironically, one of the figs that disappeared years ago from their site unless you had the URL bookmarked like I did since I was waiting for it is now back as I checked it yesterday. I'm guessing they have zero stock though and they won't mention that part when ordering. It's likely they just returned to an earlier version of the site and didn't catch it was back up.

 Gomezaddams wrote:

Sal has been thinking about closing Hasslefree for a long time

I don't know where you get that from...?

The quote is from the lead adventure forum (link on page 5 of this thread). Part of Sally's quote is
"Sally here. I completely and utterly agree with every word that you are saying. Closing shop is something that has been at the forefront on my mind for the last year now."