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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Celebrating 3 and half years since the KS was funded and 6 months since the last update.

Rookie numbers, it will be 10 years getting my last thing from the Kingdom Death kickstarter (if its not delayed again)

Vorian wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Celebrating 3 and half years since the KS was funded and 6 months since the last update.

Rookie numbers, it will be 10 years getting my last thing from the Kingdom Death kickstarter (if its not delayed again)

Celebrating...



Did they show up to any of the big gaming cons (pun?) in the UK this year so far?

They weren't at Salute.

Well, maybe he'll feel well enough to attend the upcoming UK Games Expo then hopefully.

I don't think Hasslefree have ever been at UKGE - definitely not since the pandemic, and I don't remember them being there before then.

Vorian wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Celebrating 3 and half years since the KS was funded and 6 months since the last update.

Rookie numbers, it will be 10 years getting my last thing from the Kingdom Death kickstarter (if its not delayed again)

I have faith that my next of kin's next of kin will receive the final and complete Kingdom Death delivery before they die, and that the box will require its own dedicated freight delivery because PootsAI will continue to add content up to and possibly beyond the delivery date, with a full cardboard printer and resin 3d printer as part of the delivery if necessary.
I've never had confidence that Hasslefree could deliver something they had in stock to me if I was standing outside their door. Which is a shame, because I've really wanted some of those minis.

So...

https://hfminis.co.uk/

We'll be back shortly.

Dameon is back and needs some time to sort out any outstanding issues.

We also need to make some changes to the website to go along with the soon-to-be-announced changes to the business itself.

Just to stop any rumours before they start, we are not closed 🙂

This is just temporary while we sort some things out, we'll be back this month.

Get your wallets ready! (but not your mailboxes)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Get your wallets ready! (but not your mailboxes)

I know things have been awful for the kickstarter backers. But the last time I ordered direct from Hasslefree, I actually got my order rather timely.

This is just temporary while we sort some things out, we'll be back this month.

Ah, the famous "back this month" which could mean anything from 2-12 months.

Will the updated info from Daemon be put up on the website or updated during his impressive full time twitch streams of Blood Bowl?

He really needs to stop using those emotes..

Either he is truly fething delusional in that he thinks gak can be fixed or he is about to make the mother of all comebacks where everything is forgiven, which heh, given how much of a fething mess this has all been, seems highly unlikely.

My plans for Demon Lord Trump are no longer funny so I don't think a comeback is possible.

Unless the news is that he's selling the company/molds to someone else, I'll continue to consider Hasslefree a tragic case of excellent sculpts held hostage by an untrustworthy company.

Merging/selling/coming under new management can all be viable approaches and more than one firm has been bought out by a larger one and proved to be more successful in the long run when having some support and a fresh injection of energy/money/staff

Hi, sorry to make this my first post, was looking for information about what was going on with Hasslefree as i've been after a few bits to finish my grym. I'm really frustrated with the lack of updates from the company and then now with the website being down and this forum has the most recent conversations. I notice black and white games the company behind HF has just been struck off by companies house and was wondering what this means for orders and the kickstarter, they've started another company so will it be okay?

Thanks for mentioning that, I've had someone check on that info and they found the following:

compulsory notice went up on 04/03 with intent for the Crown to seize all assets, objection was noted on 15/04, company was forcibly dissolved on 03 this month by the Crown

Interesting.

So, what that means is the company, a separate legal entity to the owners, is now gone. Any funds it retained are now, under Bona Vacantia, property of the Crown.

It can be reconstituted, but it depends on why it was Struck Off. A common reason can be failure to file accounts. There, once the paperwork is in, it can be reversed. But if you’re struck off due to extensive unpaid debts? Not so much,

But, there’s nothing to prevent it returning as a Sole Trader. But, as any assets should pass to the crown as part of the Ltd Co’s dissolution? That’s a square one.

What does it mean for physical assets like moulds, computers, tooling etc I genuinely don’t know, as the knowledge necessary to do my job doesn’t extend to that.

 BrookM wrote:
Thanks for mentioning that, I've had someone check on that info and they found the following:

compulsory notice went up on 04/03 with intent for the Crown to seize all assets, objection was noted on 15/04, company was forcibly dissolved on 03 this month by the Crown

Interesting.

Forcibly dissolved by the crown sounds so... British. I hope there were Beefeaters and Yeomen involved.

Is there a link?

Also today I learned that HMRC (His/Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) is not the same as HSBC (Hong-Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation) or HBMC (Half Brother of Marneus Calgar).

From experience I can tell you that if you fail to file the correct paperwork with HMRC they will assume you are massively profitable, estimate that you owe then a mountain of cash and move to grab everything they can.

It can fixable with a decent accountant but you also risk crippling fines.

An excerpt from my TED talk on why paying accountants can actually save you money.


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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


Is there a link?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09197984/filing-history

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
HBMC (Half Brother of Marneus Calgar).

I think you mean.. Horrible Bullying Man-Child there.

But yeah, from what I've been told, nothing has been filed since 2023, so whoops?

Could just be late filing. But that an appeal was made and failed? Again I’m not exactly an expert, but that doesn’t look good to me.

The fact that they had to file a declaration that their future activities are lawful is not exactly a glowing endorsement either. Especially not when it was the last thing filed before the first strike off order.

I think that’s just pretty standard filing.

Yup. Standard bit of filing.

"The company confirms that its intended future activities are lawful."

Damn, I thought it was a joke, but no.

Did some digging and found that a new company had been incorporated on the 7th May with the same Directors.

HF MINIS LTD
Company number 16433318.

Who are of course not liable for Black and White Games' debt. This is sounding more and more like a Redstar one style scam.

Hold on. Gonna do a post assembling my comments, as people are (understandably) getting the wrong end of the stick.

Black & White Games Ltd has been dissolved, via Compulsory Strike Off.

That means the business no longer legally exists. Any cash assets now belong to the crown, Bona Vancatia. I’m not 100% sure what happens to physical assets. Anything rented/leased will go back to the owner. Anything Black & White Games Ltd owned though? I’ll look into that.

There was an appeal against the Compulsory Strike Off, which failed. Now we don’t know many details, but that suggests it’s not a fairly straight forward “we forgot to file our accounts” strike off. Which, whilst Limited Companies can be reconstituted, suggests the underlying reason isn’t one you can come back from (for example, making no claims here, large, unpaid debts)

The Confirmation Statement is I’m afraid nothing remarkable, just pretty standard stuff. Every Limited Company has to file them. It’s not a sign that Black & White Games Ltd was up to anything illegal previously.

I’ve now checked, and Bona Vacantia means anything left in Black & White Games Ltd’s ownership at the time of dissolution is now owned by The Crown. Funds. Moulds. Stock. Machines. Computers. All of it.

It is possible that prior to being dissolved, Black & White Games Ltd could’ve formally sold physical assets to someone else. And I’m not entirely sure if the Directors buying them, to setup shop again in the future, is legal or not. That’s a question for someone better versed than I.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and just in case? The address registered with Companies House needn’t be your residential address, or even your business premises address.

I don’t think, and I’d bloody hope not, that any Dakkanaut would be so daft as to try a face to face. But just in case, that information should discourage any such notions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ingtaer wrote:
Did some digging and found that a new company had been incorporated on the 7th May with the same Directors.

HF MINIS LTD
Company number 16433318.

Who are of course not liable for Black and White Games' debt. This is sounding more and more like a Redstar one style scam.

Ahhh, Phoenixing. Naughty, but not, I believe, actually illegal. A Debtor of Black & White Games Ltd might have a claim, especially if any (entirely hypothetical because we really don’t know) transfer of assets occurred for a suspiciously low price. For (again, entirely hypothetical) example?

I run Limited Company A. And I’m mired in debt. And I know I likely can’t get out of it without selling all my assets, preventing me from doing business.

So instead, I setup Limited Company B, and sell all of Limited Company A’s assets to it. For £1. Nevermind their actual value is £1,000,000.00, it’s still technically legal on the face of it.

But the person or business Limited Company A was indebted to may be able to cry foul, having been essentially denied the maximised return of the debt, due to the less than market value sale of assets to Limited Company B.

If however I sold the assets for their market value? No debtor is technically out of pocket, even if not all of the debt was settled. The legal stance there is because it was a market value transfer, the Debtor isn’t disadvantaged, despite the Phoenixing.

So, what does this mean for customers awaiting fulfilment of orders?

Honestly? Your bum is most likely out the window on this one. HS Minis Ltd most likely wouldn’t have bought any standing obligations. And the company that owed you your product no longer exists.

If you’re in the UK, you may have some recourse through your bank via chargeback (for Debit Card payments) or Section 75 for credit card payments. There are however strict time limits involved there - which although strict, can have slippery start dates. I can look into that further, but not until Monday as it’s work resources I’d be pulling in to refresh my memory.

But here’s a Handy Dandy link in the meantime

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/our-expertise/cards/chargeback-and-section-75

Just to add on - once in liquidation any assets can be sold by the liquidators and because of the liquidation the "market value" would be much lower. Anything that has zero value (e.g. anything that the storage costs exceed any potential sale) would likely be either auctioned if there is a lot of stuff, or binned.

So you can see how directors setting up a new company often end up buying back their assets at a discount without keeping the liabilities.

If that doesn't annoy you enough, don't forget that trading and brand names are assets too - so although a new company has a different legal name if often trades under the same brand including logo, name etc.

I’ve a feeling that if assets are being sold to cover a debt? The indebted person is actually banned from bidding.

Not sure how that works when it’s Limited Companies though, as they’re legal entities in their own right.

Moral of the story right now? Don’t order from Hasslefree. They seem exceptionally and staggeringly dodgy.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve a feeling that if assets are being sold to cover a debt? The indebted person is actually banned from bidding.

Not sure how that works when it’s Limited Companies though, as they’re legal entities in their own right.

No that’s incorrect. The main point of a formal insolvency (both personal and for businesses) is to reclaim as much money as possible for creditors, and often the only person(s) interested in the assets will be the original owner.

You’re correct that outside of a formal insolvency you can’t sell assets at a discount effectively to yourself, but in formal insolvency it’s technically not you (in this example the “you” = the directors) doing it. The liquidators have to justify the sale - but without immediate other interested parties or very valuable assets, that isn’t hard to do.