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Lately, I've been digging a little through my pile of second hand minis, and there, I found a whole bunch of the old monopose plague marines. I thought that it would be fun to make them into an army. They however really don't fit with the more recent models and as people can probably understand, I also don't feel like scouring eBay and the like for the fitting metal figures.

So, that leads me to ask, how would people feel about an army (including the characters) made from (converted) versions of these old marines. For the terminators, I would probably be using some of the old (25mm based) terminators.

For bases, I would probably go for more modern standards, but other than that, most things would look a bit old-fashioned. But the question is: what would people think about such an army and would there be people who find it unacceptable because of the size difference and different look?

Of course there's people who'd find your old models unacceptable.
And they can just feth off while you play with more reasonable people.

Theres plenty of us using decades old models. Even stuff released waaay back in Rogue Trader.
Welcome to the club.

I second the above. Play with the models you have and have fun. I think the only issue you might see is someone saying the model isn't the right dimensions for True Line of Sight (A rule that is very controversial, but in the game). I would love it, as I also use older models and convert.

People may also make argument's about base size. GW"s rule right now is use the base the model came with...which has created a few arguments among the more competitive people. The advantages disadvantages for having a smaller/larger base have been argued elsewhere and seem to balance out (smaller allows more in melee perhaps but shrinks the models footprint on the table for Objectives and control).

It's fine. 40k is generally quite wishy washy with thing like this, despite what people might think. So long as you are not taking the piss most people won't care, quite the opposite- they'll probably be enthralled by the old minis (at least IME).

The size difference isn't as drastic as you might think though, all you need to do to embiggen them is stick the original 25mm base on top of a more modern 32mm one (or in the case of the Termies 32mm on 40mm). The Termies themselves need a small lengthening at the waist, but it is not 100% necessary.

Below are some rough and ready snaps I took some time ago of size comparisons between the the current and old CSM minis and PMs.

Your models, your decision. There is nothing from GW that only the most recent version of a figure is valid. If anyone complains, they are probably not worth playing.

The project sounds awesome. I would try to use some more recent bits for conversions, maybe new kewl bases, yada, and updated paints, e.g. contrast method, yada...

ccs wrote:
Of course there's people who'd find your old models unacceptable.
And they can just feth off while you play with more reasonable people.

Theres plenty of us using decades old models. Even stuff released waaay back in Rogue Trader.
Welcome to the club.

Exactly.
You can tell those people to feth off for me, as well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

edwardmyst wrote:
I second the above. Play with the models you have and have fun. I think the only issue you might see is someone saying the model isn't the right dimensions for True Line of Sight (A rule that is very controversial, but in the game). I would love it, as I also use older models and convert.

People may also make argument's about base size. GW"s rule right now is use the base the model came with...which has created a few arguments among the more competitive people. The advantages disadvantages for having a smaller/larger base have been argued elsewhere and seem to balance out (smaller allows more in melee perhaps but shrinks the models footprint on the table for Objectives and control).

LoS problems can be rectified with some common sense, e.g. if you can see the top of a banner pole, you can shoot the top of a banner pole, not the entire unit and not even that model, and also with some civil communication, e.g. that unit of deathguard is moving behind the wall to take cover against bolter fire from those directions, and are crouching and staying as much out of sight as possible. With such intentions communicated, issues involving parts of arms and feet poking out from behind stone walls are nullified, at least with civil human beings.

My DG uses Plague Marine models from 3rd to 8th Edition, no problem. I have the old plastic models, new plastic models, CSM with Forgeworld Upgrade, metals from 5th Edition and I use them all side by side. It's a Chaos army, having strange scale is in the name
If you want to have a unified look same bases and color scheme should be sufficient, really.

I wouldn't have any problem with someone using older models, in fact, I'd love to see more of them being used. Some of those older models are great.

I regularly field my original RT beakie squad right alongside my Primaris.

Do what you like the look of and screw anyone who has a problem with it, you'd probably not want to play them anyway.

Old models rock! I love seeing the history of a faction in GW represented on the tabletop. Those models always have a story about how the person came to have them and why they've held onto them so long / found them somewhere.

People who complain about that as "modelling for advantage" are missing the forest through the trees....40k is hardly a well balanced and optimised game system, so having a few different sized models is not a big deal.

What others say above. Unless it's an actual tournament setting that forbids it, if somebody complained about me using the old obliterators and terminators that were significantly smaller than the current versions, despite the fact that I'd paid for and painted these models, then they would be somebody that I wouldn't waste my time with - feth em.

As long as size is not extremely different older problem shouldn't be a problem.

I mean 2nd edition Ghaz on a 25mm base and smaller than a boyz shouldn't be played as the new huge Ghaz. But units of 5-10 man infantries don't really have any significant difference if their models are a bit smaller and on 25mm instead of 32-40mm.

Tournaments rely on house rules, so their house their rules.

I'm going to disagree with blackie. I have old ghaz and new ghaz. I'd PROBABLY play new ghaz anyway (once I've painted him), but I reserve the right to play old ghaz, and to have my opponent and I apply a modicum of sportsmanship and common sense.

stroller wrote:
I'm going to disagree with blackie. I have old ghaz and new ghaz. I'd PROBABLY play new ghaz anyway (once I've painted him), but I reserve the right to play old ghaz, and to have my opponent and I apply a modicum of sportsmanship and common sense.

For old Ghaz I meant 2nd edition one, the one on 25mm and smaller than an ork boy.

 Blackie wrote:

stroller wrote:
I'm going to disagree with blackie. I have old ghaz and new ghaz. I'd PROBABLY play new ghaz anyway (once I've painted him), but I reserve the right to play old ghaz, and to have my opponent and I apply a modicum of sportsmanship and common sense.

For old Ghaz I meant 2nd edition one, the one on 25mm and smaller than an ork boy.

So? It's still Ghaz.

ccs wrote:


So? It's still Ghaz.

And the game experience is completely different by using a model in a 25mm or one on a 80m that is 10 times bigger.

Difference between 25mm and 32mm or even 25mm and 40mm (like old termies) isn't significant. Using that tiny ghaz to represent the current ghaz, which is huge, has a real impact about the model's performance: keep in mind that he can be targeted by enemy firepower as he has 12W but even a small fence can hide a model that is not even as tall as an ork boy. Base footprint also allows him to charge and let lots of other friendly ork models fight along with him as he typically leads hordes of boyz; not that easy with a huge 80mm that blocks the way.

ccs wrote:
So? It's still Ghaz.

Have you seen the old Ghaz mini?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

ccs wrote:
So? It's still Ghaz.

Have you seen the old Ghaz mini?

Yeah this is where the argument about using any old minis starts to be problematic. Likewise with the original greater daemon models, I'd personally still let someone use them if that was what they wanted to do, but could well understand someone having an issue with it.
I have both the originals and the new (unclean one) and the size difference is a major factor.

I just re-found my original metal Genestealer Cults Patriarch and Magus I bought back in 2nd edition; cast back in 1993 i think. I plan on using them just for the "cool" factor of using minis older then most of my opponents.

He barely comes up to the waist of the current plastic Patriarch model.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
He barely comes up to the waist of the current plastic Patriarch model.

The same story as with so many of them, and not only WH40K but games right across the GW line.

What is bizarre to me is there seems to be a denialist attitude among some members of the community, both online, and the fellah I spoke to in my local store the other day. It's bizarre because it's blatant denial of what is totally obvious and can be easily measured! And nobody is even saying it's a bad thing! It might be a good thing! I for one prefer the old models, but that is totally subjective. I have no problem with people preferring the up-scaled models, but I do find it weird when they try and deny it's even happening.

 Huron black heart wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

ccs wrote:
So? It's still Ghaz.

Have you seen the old Ghaz mini?

Yeah this is where the argument about using any old minis starts to be problematic. Likewise with the original greater daemon models, I'd personally still let someone use them if that was what they wanted to do, but could well understand someone having an issue with it.
I have both the originals and the new (unclean one) and the size difference is a major factor.

Yeah, I'm generally pretty friendly to using whatever, but especially in the old 25mm Ghaz, I'd honestly not feel super-great about it, as it's so conceptually different.

If I saw someone dragging their old army out from retirement, I'd probably ask that that they they throw him on a coaster or blank large base or whatever so it's easier to track; if it became a regular thing, it might grate.

There are a lot of ways to deal with old models, like if they wanted to put him with a handful of boyz on an epic base and treat him like one of the new retinue-style models I'd be 100% behind a creative take on him; if they wanted to keep their original one complete and just have a nicer base than a complete blank that would be fine; insisting on keeping original tiny version, and I wouldn't feel the best. There are a lot of easy tricks to bulking out a model that don't really cost much time or effort, or require any particular skills.

(Similarly, while I rebased my marines since I think the larger bases help compensate for the older models being smaller, I wouldn't push that on others since it does take a ton of time and isn't that big a difference.)

 Lord Clinto wrote:
I just re-found my original metal Genestealer Cults Patriarch and Magus I bought back in 2nd edition; cast back in 1993 i think. I plan on using them just for the "cool" factor of using minis older then most of my opponents.

He barely comes up to the waist of the current plastic Patriarch model.

Oh man, I just got 35 more of the old school rogue trader Harlequins and I am unbelievably psyched to be able to run a full 2k 9th edition list that's essentially right out of 2nd edition.

I'm going to use a vyper as a Starweaver (because harlies used to be able to take vypers), 2x12 footslogging troupes and 1x6 troupe in the weaver, 5 of the old metal mask bikers as skyweavers, and then an eldar patrol so I can bring my old RT/2nd ed aspect warriors and my harlequin wraithlord.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

ccs wrote:
So? It's still Ghaz.

Have you seen the old Ghaz mini?

Here's a not ideal (but elegant) solution to the issue that someone did.



If plenty of people can do Sassy Nurgling or a Slaaneshi Herald on a pile of skulls as a passable DP, (personally I don't like those, but whatever...) then that should be alright too.

While I would be good with that. I would use the old old Ghaz as a nob for an old group of boyz. My Eldar kill team is an old sniper, a metal fire dragon, two Eldar guardians ( one with a mohawk), and 9 metal guardians with lasguns. They all look good together and they work as a team. Most people I meet who complain about old minis just wish they had them.

 Dolnikan wrote:
Lately, I've been digging a little through my pile of second hand minis, and there, I found a whole bunch of the old monopose plague marines. I thought that it would be fun to make them into an army. They however really don't fit with the more recent models and as people can probably understand, I also don't feel like scouring eBay and the like for the fitting metal figures.

So, that leads me to ask, how would people feel about an army (including the characters) made from (converted) versions of these old marines. For the terminators, I would probably be using some of the old (25mm based) terminators.

For bases, I would probably go for more modern standards, but other than that, most things would look a bit old-fashioned. But the question is: what would people think about such an army and would there be people who find it unacceptable because of the size difference and different look?

There are base expander rings for sale to bring your models into modern compliance, and you should be good to go. Nominally, you should be good to go even if you don't since official reccommendation was that the base size the model was sold with is legal, but if you're going to go competitive I would definitely rebase to modern standard base dimensions.

I think I used Tabletop Adapters for my Sisters.

I use a 2e Warboss as the Nob for my Boyz mob, and I use old metal 2e Kommandos and Deffskull Kustom Kombi Weapons for Lootas. Never had anyone complain.