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Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.

Dread Master wrote:
Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.

Except the new kits are almost guaranteed to be more expensive, so something like 3 troops 2 HQ and a pair of elite units to build a basic 1000 points ork army would cost 700+ USD, 430+ GBP or 520+ EUR.
Once they figure out that a 2k army means paying three to four times as much money as any other army, you would lose all those ironjawz fans as well, leaving you with no target group at all for the upgrade.

"No buying a whole heck of a lot" is not an options when playing orks.

 Jidmah wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.

Except the new kits are almost guaranteed to be more expensive, so something like 3 troops 2 HQ and a pair of elite units to build a basic 1000 points ork army would cost 700+ USD, 430+ GBP or 520+ EUR.
Once they figure out that a 2k army means paying three to four times as much money as any other army, you would lose all those ironjawz fans as well, leaving you with no target group at all for the upgrade.

"No buying a whole heck of a lot" is not an options when playing orks.

Exactly, and with Orks generally needing to have multiples of the same unit for them to be effective, even in a non-boyz centric list (which again basically ruins the point of a Ork resculpt reboot) you can't do what marines do and just plug in a few different units and you're good to go. Orks don't have any box sets or cost-efficient starter sets ever since AoBR went OOP, so Orks would join GSC levels of expensive to start.

Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.

The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.

Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.

That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.

 Jidmah wrote:
So just 5 identically posed clones of each boy per battalion. Totally worth spending hundreds of dollars for more straight backs in a horde unit.

Depends on how they construct the kit. The Battle Sister's box has multiple models with 3 different builds, while the 4 special weapons torso differ only at the head and weapon (with 4 options).

And that assumes you don't want to do any kit-bashing or converting at all.

 Albertorius wrote:
Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.

The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.

I do have to say that the Bladeguard and Eradicator kits are a step in the direction of a happy medium. The torso and legs are fixed pose, but the arms are far more interchangeable and there is a lot more variety there. I had a lot of fun building both kits. Subassemblies do build specific ways, but for 3 model units, there is quite a bit of room to make them look less li,e a sea of clones.
Stormspeeder is a pretty easy and straightforward build, but they will look very samey with duplicates.
Psychomancer...is a cool looking model, but made it into my top 5 most annoying models to build, beating out Morathi but behind the old metal hybrid land raider crusader.


Back on orks, I am hoping the new kits see the necron style update with new weapons and loadouts in the box rather than the direct copies of older models just in plastic like the howling banshees or incubi. Both the latter look great, but I'd like to see Kommandoes gain things like the snags klaw and grapplers, maybe even orky snipers. Tankbustas with a choice between normal rokkits, rokkit pistols and tank hammas, or a heavy rokkit that does more damage , maybe squig mines as an option vs squig bombs.

The thing about 'great-looking' or 'horrible-looking' ork posture is that it is subjective. It's really hard to tell from here exactly how many gamers would buy more orks (or buy orks at all) if you refreshed the line with an substantially different anatomy. I'm not knocking people who don't like the gorilla-squat orks. I myself love them, and would probably stop buying orks from GW if the old orks were discontinued. But that doesn't make me, or them, wrong.

What complicates the tradeoff is that the old-style orks are cross-compatible across boys, bikers, lootas/burnas, trukk crew, battlewagon crew, aircraft crew, out-of-print GW metal upgrades, in production and out-of-production Forgeworld stuff, and many, many third party bits. Those options give you huge, huge customizability for your models, which really matters to a lot of people fielding huge armies, and a lot of long-term ork players who can keep their collection fresh by adding converted models as new projects.

If GW does refresh the range, does the entire compatible range get refreshed? Are the new models compatible with the old ones? Given the trends in sculpting from GW, it's HIGHLY unlikely that you will see kits that are as hugely cross-compatible as the old ones. If they get refreshed slowly (which is much more likely than redoing multiple troops choices, as well as crew upgrades for vehicles that aren't getting updated, you'll have even more of a problem doing easy conversions.

I'm sure that it is hugely annoying to need to get the right bit from some other ork kit to outfit something correctly (for those of us without bits boxes the size of refrigerators), but GW's recent trend (Death Guard, for instance) solves that not through cross-compatibility, but through disallowing any weapons and wargear options that aren't in the box. This is the exact opposite of what many, many ork players want. Even ork players who might want new sculpts probably don't want you to be limited to mobs of precisely ten boys, five with sluggas, five with shootas, with a nob with a big choppa--and nothing else whatsoever.

I'm personally terrified that Orks will get the Primaris treatment, because the amazing modularity and cross-compatibility of the range is what I love the most about them. Each box you buy gives you more bits that you can use in your own army to create your own vision. I'm especially afraid because there's so much opportunity for GW to expand orks without redoing the line (cross-compatible kommandos, cross-compatible tankbustas, cross-compatible Koptas) and make the range more accessible (hey, what about a plastic squiggoth, or a plastic huge squiggoth, or a plastic battlefortress, or a plastic chinork, or ork fortifications, or even a plastic warboss?). A refresh of the line would consume modeling, rules, and production capacity and reduce greatly the chance of seeing a lot of the stuff a lot of ork players have been seeking a long time.

On the topic of that Orruk previewed, he looks amazing. He really does. But he's a singular model. He's a character model. Would it be nearly as neat to have 1-2 of him in every 10 boys? Would it be cool to have him as your only option for a nob? Probably not. But if he was easily compatible with every other ork nob, and freebooter, and nob on bike, suddenly, it's not unreasonable to buy a few. Field one unmodified. Put another on a bike, use a third with some conversion...



As an aside, I do sympathize with people who don't like the current ork sculpts. It's frustrating to like a faction, but to not have that faction's aesthetic match your preferences. I loved, loved, loved Space Wolves back when they were Space Vikings. Just mad about them. But when they made the move towards literal wolf-natured things (Wulfen as routine, Wolf Riders, Wulfen Dreadnoughts) and ice magic (ice axes, ice cannons), I couldn't stand that stuff--but it is obviously popular. I felt like I lost the army that I liked (grim Space Norsemen) for an army other people liked. I don't have a solution for you, but I'm not dismissing your opinion.


Also, a thought I only had after posting initially, GW may be motivated to refresh the range precisely to frustrate third party makers of Ork bits. I'm also hugely nervous about that possibility. But GW runs a real risk there as well. Does refreshing the range get ork players to abandon the third party models, or does it get them to abandon GW entirely and run third-party models. There's already cross-compatible heads, arms, legs, and torsos, as well as weapons. I'm pretty sure it would be child's play for several of these companies to easily make their own versions of any new weapon/wargear options from GW and make them compatible with old-style orks. So GW needs to weigh whether a model range change attracts more new buyers that it drives away current buyers (or new buyers who like the old style and cross-compatibility).

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.

The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.

I do have to say that the Bladeguard and Eradicator kits are a step in the direction of a happy medium. The torso and legs are fixed pose, but the arms are far more interchangeable and there is a lot more variety there. I had a lot of fun building both kits. Subassemblies do build specific ways, but for 3 model units, there is quite a bit of room to make them look less li,e a sea of clones.

Yeah, but 3 model units have an obvious downside with the tiny unit size. Its easy to allow for customization when you're fitting out a grand total of 3 marines or maybe 6 in a full unit.
Lots of room on the sprue for random bits.

For real unit sizes (10) or worse, hordes... that just isn't viable and isn't going to happen.

Everything I could possibly say on this matter has been covered better, more eloquently, logically and reasonably by the Da Butcher.

If only the discourse on the internet could be this good all the time!

As someone who has recently started an ork army, I really enjoyed assembling and painting my first box of Boyz. The second box was a lot less fun, and I cant say I'm looking forward to the next 4 or so boxes overmuch.

There has to be a happy medium between a full on primaris style redesign that breaks the visual continuity of the range, and having to paint slight variations on the same model 50 times per army.

Horde armies inherently have a lot of challenges for the hobbyist in terms of cost and time investment required. I don't think we should discount the possibility that GW will realise that and address it, if only to encourage people to invest in a new model line.

Morghot wrote:
I really want to see new boyz for the simplest fact: ive started in 2004 with the exactly ork boyz we have today... i would really appreciate a change

It's not the same kit though. The Ork Boy kit got redone in 2008/9. Using your logic we still have the same Tactical Marines from 1998.

I believe they were not new sculpts, just a recut of the sprue. They certainly look the same to me.

Either/Or wrote:
I believe they were not new sculpts, just a recut of the sprue. They certainly look the same to me.

Yeah. There were some new parts added, the nob bits, the big shoota and the rokkit but the rest was the same.

Either/Or wrote:
I believe they were not new sculpts, just a recut of the sprue. They certainly look the same to me.

The boyz are the same (I don't know if it was a recut, it might even be the exact same sprue), but they added an extra sprue for weapons, bitz and the Nob.

So yeah, the boyz themselves haven't changed since the boxed set prior to the current one.

Shootas also used to be separate pieces.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Shootas also used to be separate pieces.

I did wonder that (it's been over a decade since I've built any 40k Orks and I could have sworn they were separate pieces as I remember doing the old trick of chopping up shootas to make big shootas and twin linked big shootas).

But even the shootas themselves still manage to look identical, lol.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Morghot wrote:
I really want to see new boyz for the simplest fact: ive started in 2004 with the exactly ork boyz we have today... i would really appreciate a change

It's not the same kit though. The Ork Boy kit got redone in 2008/9. Using your logic we still have the same Tactical Marines from 1998.

Yep i know that but the kit is the same, i buy my first orks in 2004 and they are exactly the same now (head, torso, arms, legs). They added some extra sprue thats all.

 Altruizine wrote:


Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).

Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.

Gw ups prices of new sku's. Horde. Non-horde. Irrevevant.

Atm troops are 55/10. Orks would be at least 55/10. It's even possible price goes up. Been a while already since troop box level went up after all. 60 for　10 isn't impossible.without nob(atm it's 45 for 11 models). Which could also result no boss nob　in game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kurhanik wrote:
Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.

That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.

Doesn"t need refresh. Needs just new　sku. Even if models are　same.

You would be lucky to get just 15% price hike.

The thing about "don't refresh the sculpts, I have a massive army!" is, you're not going to be buying enough to warrant new kits anyway. You have an army, you're no longer GW's main target audience which is people starting a *new* army. And if you buy one, or even two, boxes of "new orks" that look more like orruks in posture, they will melt seamlessly into your 150 ork boyz anyway.

So, I really like the push together boys from AoBR. I have something between 70 and 90 of them. These were a god send a few editions ago. I like the more dynamic "mono-builds" GW are producing now, Primaris being the largest example I have experience with. GW's 3d modeling has come a long way from where it was in 08/09 with the Ork refresh at that time.
I would wish GW would go back to putting at least 16 Ork Boys in a box in the future. I think it would go over well enough if they were much like the AoBR boys with the attachment of an arm or two and a head. Something to complement a multi part box. Unit filler.
Price is the issue for sure. GW really needs to put enough models in boxes comparable to the units sizes in a codex to make playing those armies something people can decide to do with out being turned off by the cost. Some armies are more cost effective to put on the table. GW could provide that value with boxes of unit filler where quaintly is it's own quality, if they wanted to.
This is more important, it would seem to me, if GW is intending to do an complete refresh of an entire faction. And while it's partly a slap in the face of older collectors might incline both new players and long time players to buy in with less grumping.
Between that and a codex with a clearly new direction I think it's something I could get excited about.
If not then there's always the third party models thing out there to hopefully take care of supporting a phased out model line.

About the posture though, these are aliens.
I can't understand buying an army full of models I don't like the vast majority of but then I don't understand why people paint Orks in any color other than green either.

I love the ork community! I never see the players of any other race get this worked up over releases. There is something special about orks. I mean, sure, everyone gets excited when their army gets stuff, or when a banger of a kit comes out, but ork players are always on a different level!

Orks hooked me way back in RT/2nd. I am almost 45 and I still get giddy as a kid when there is even a possibility of new ork stuff.

Looking to sell/trade all my orks... but I have made so many conversions im hard pressed to get rid of them... they're just taking up space!

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Looking to sell/trade all my orks... but I have made so many conversions im hard pressed to get rid of them... they're just taking up space!

I'm in a similar boat. I had over 20K in old points (7th and before) I'd like to boil it down to something playable and part with the rest but I've put a lot of time into my collection and don't even know where to start or what to value what I would part with is the right way. But they take up soooooo much space. It's a little funny because I did start to clear out my never going to get to these pile a few years ago.
It's also sad because everything I'd part with now is fully painted.

tneva82 wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:


Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).

Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.

Gw ups prices of new sku's. Horde. Non-horde. Irrevevant.

Atm troops are 55/10. Orks would be at least 55/10. It's even possible price goes up. Been a while already since troop box level went up after all. 60 for　10 isn't impossible.without nob(atm it's 45 for 11 models). Which could also result no boss nob　in game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kurhanik wrote:
Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.

That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.

Doesn"t need refresh. Needs just new　sku. Even if models are　same.

You would be lucky to get just 15% price hike.

I would hope a new Boyz kit would get a bit of a horde discount since you'll likely be buying many boxes of them, though I wouldn't put it past GW to charge Primaris level prices for them (and then proceed to wonder why no one wants to buy Orks).

You do remember the price of Genestealer Cults right?

 Albertorius wrote:
Funny thing, I actually like the wacky 2nd edition orks. I'm even printing myself some of those for Epic.

Spoiler:

They're very cool, Albertorius - are there more poses?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Funny thing, I actually like the wacky 2nd edition orks. I'm even printing myself some of those for Epic.

Spoiler:

They're very cool, Albertorius - are there more poses?

Quite a bit, yes!

I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models

Personally I want the old models back - Snotlings, boarboyz, squig catapult, madboyz, etc.