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 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Lelith kills 12.5 GEQ,
4.2 MEQ
2.1 TEQ
and assuming she gets only one round of combat, 4.0 unsaved wounds vs. a 4++ marine captain profile

The math seems wrong? I agree she can have a place, but like you said with other named characters - they don't always take first place. That's probably a good thing since it can ( but doesn't always ) promote more variety.

This is what I get for 1 round vs Captain
((7 * .194) + (7 * .998)) = 8.344 * .75 * .5 = 3.1

Versus normal stuff she should score 7 hits, so 4.7 GEQ or 9.3 in total.

If you're a total madlad and there's a marine nearby you can allocate 4 attacks to that unit and if the model dies you should be able to score 5 on captain with the remainder and a second fight phase. Even easier if they happen to have a wounded model, which is feasible if you bring support.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'm sure this has been discussed a lot but I think it's more than that. She looks like a female version of Heman (a roided out human). She is supposed to be thin and graceful to the extreme on the already extreme level due to being an eldar.

Yea they just over-highlighted the model. Based on the absolute magic people have done on other models I'm pretty confident in any case.

Blood Dancer and the ability on her knives means each hit roll of a 6 is 4 hits.

It's 3 isnt it? Blood Dancer 6's counts as 2 hits and her ability gives another extra hit for 3 total on 6's.

I don't have my screenshots on this computer but I think I recall and 1d4chan seems to agree that blood dancer is 2 additional hits. so that'd be 4 total each 6.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Proportions are right. Khabs look perfect IMO.

kabalites arent the ones training in hand to hand combat every day tho... you need less muscles if youre gonna shoot people than jump around and fight in close combat

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Proportions are right. Khabs look perfect IMO.

kabalites arent the ones training in hand to hand combat every day tho... you need less muscles if youre gonna shoot people than jump around and fight in close combat

I get where you are coming from and that makes logical sense. Eldar just literally not bulk up from this kind of activity. They just get faster and more defined.

 harlokin wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that while Kabalites are skinny, Wyches are less so, and are definitely much more muscly cos of all the roids.

Yeah but her whole thing is she doesn't take roids. She's supposed to be even thinner and more elegant and lithe and beautiful than normal Eldar. Instead she looks like she just got done with a course from the Russian Olympic team, if you know what I mean.

I don't think it has anything to do with female models generally, but this particular model really fails to convey what the lore for this particular being is supposed to be.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that while Kabalites are skinny, Wyches are less so, and are definitely much more muscly cos of all the roids.

Yeah but her whole thing is she doesn't take roids. She's supposed to be even thinner and more elegant and lithe and beautiful than normal Eldar. Instead she looks like she just got done with a course from the Russian Olympic team, if you know what I mean.

I don't think it has anything to do with female models generally, but this particular model really fails to convey what the lore for this particular being is supposed to be.

Yeah, absolutely, this complaint is completely new and original and certainly isn't the exact same thing people complained about when we got the preview for the sisters of battle heads, then celestine, then eschers, then repentia, then the canoness, then the new keeper of secrets, then jain zar, then the female orlocks...

can't wait to see her next to regular wyches and have a proper comparison.

the_scotsman wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that while Kabalites are skinny, Wyches are less so, and are definitely much more muscly cos of all the roids.

Yeah but her whole thing is she doesn't take roids. She's supposed to be even thinner and more elegant and lithe and beautiful than normal Eldar. Instead she looks like she just got done with a course from the Russian Olympic team, if you know what I mean.

I don't think it has anything to do with female models generally, but this particular model really fails to convey what the lore for this particular being is supposed to be.

Yeah, absolutely, this complaint is completely new and original and certainly isn't the exact same thing people complained about when we got the preview for the sisters of battle heads, then celestine, then eschers, then repentia, then the canoness, then the new keeper of secrets, then jain zar, then the female orlocks...

This is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. I've never complained about any of those, and in fact I'm pretty sure on on record as saying the Jain Zar model gets it just right. Feel free to go back through my posting history if you want to verify. Please don't accuse people of arguing in bad faith without proof.

yukishiro1 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that while Kabalites are skinny, Wyches are less so, and are definitely much more muscly cos of all the roids.

Yeah but her whole thing is she doesn't take roids. She's supposed to be even thinner and more elegant and lithe and beautiful than normal Eldar. Instead she looks like she just got done with a course from the Russian Olympic team, if you know what I mean.

I don't think it has anything to do with female models generally, but this particular model really fails to convey what the lore for this particular being is supposed to be.

Yeah, absolutely, this complaint is completely new and original and certainly isn't the exact same thing people complained about when we got the preview for the sisters of battle heads, then celestine, then eschers, then repentia, then the canoness, then the new keeper of secrets, then jain zar, then the female orlocks...

This is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. I've never complained about any of those, and in fact I'm pretty sure on on record as saying the Jain Zar model gets it just right. Feel free to go back through my posting history if you want to verify. Please don't accuse people of arguing in bad faith without proof.

I didn't say you personally and I didn't "accuse you of interneting in buzzword buzzword logical fallacy checkmate atheists". I'm just pointing out that literally any time a female model comes out, even if it's wearing a gigantic robot suit (lol Farsight and the new SoB walkers) and it doesn't look like a Raging Heroes model, people take the opportunity to have a quick whine that it doesn't look like a raging heroes model.

the_scotsman wrote:

I didn't say you personally and I didn't "accuse you of interneting in buzzword buzzword logical fallacy checkmate atheists". I'm just pointing out that literally any time a female model comes out, even if it's wearing a gigantic robot suit (lol Farsight and the new SoB walkers) and it doesn't look like a Raging Heroes model, people take the opportunity to have a quick whine that it doesn't look like a raging heroes model.

I guess we should be happy that this isn't one of those cases then, right?

the_scotsman wrote:
Blood Dancer and the ability on her knives means each hit roll of a 6 is 4 hits.

Oh...holy crap. I completely forgot her WL trait.

(7 * .194 * 3) + (7 * .998) = 11 hits * .75 * .5 = 4 -- I think?

People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

the_scotsman wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
It's worth bearing in mind that while Kabalites are skinny, Wyches are less so, and are definitely much more muscly cos of all the roids.

Yeah but her whole thing is she doesn't take roids. She's supposed to be even thinner and more elegant and lithe and beautiful than normal Eldar. Instead she looks like she just got done with a course from the Russian Olympic team, if you know what I mean.

I don't think it has anything to do with female models generally, but this particular model really fails to convey what the lore for this particular being is supposed to be.

Yeah, absolutely, this complaint is completely new and original and certainly isn't the exact same thing people complained about when we got the preview for the sisters of battle heads, then celestine, then eschers, then repentia, then the canoness, then the new keeper of secrets, then jain zar, then the female orlocks...

Sisters are literally Female space marine anologes. It is totally fine for them to be bulked up / while wearing high heels. It is fine. Plus armor makes you look more bulky anyways. This model is literally unclothed...I don't know how you fck it up so bad.

Didn't the dakka incels already get one thread shut down cos of this crap?

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

She isn't a woman. She is an alien. So your own feelings made clear are betraying you here. Eldar are not to be held to human standards but eldar standards. Eldar despise bulk. They are attracted to sharp lines and gracefulness.

Dai wrote:
Didn't the dakka incels already get one thread shut down cos of this crap?

Means we're pretty much due for another one.

Dai wrote:
Didn't the dakka incels already get one thread shut down cos of this crap?

What is this if not an attempt to get a thread locked?

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

Having muscles does not mean that Ronnie Coleman's quadriceps are aesthetically pleasing for an elven gladiator

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

She isn't a woman. She is an alien. So your own feelings made clear are betraying you here. Eldar are not to be held to human standards but eldar standards. Eldar despise bulk. They are attracted to sharp lines and gracefulness.

What you mentally define as bulk is what I call athletic, so, you're kind of imposing ( as am I ) your own standard on the model.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

She isn't a woman. She is an alien. So your own feelings made clear are betraying you here. Eldar are not to be held to human standards but eldar standards. Eldar despise bulk. They are attracted to sharp lines and gracefulness.

And I think you don't know what sharp lines and gracefulness are.

Sharp lines have to do with the face, not the body. And the new model does have a sharp face.

Gracefulness has more to do with posture and movement than with body type, and has nothing to do with slenderness or thinness.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

She isn't a woman. She is an alien. So your own feelings made clear are betraying you here. Eldar are not to be held to human standards but eldar standards. Eldar despise bulk. They are attracted to sharp lines and gracefulness.

What you mentally define as bulk is what I call athletic, so, you're kind of imposing ( as am I ) your own standard on the model.

Your concept of athletic is human. So you are agreeing with me. She looks like a human female soccer player with knives. I agree. Can we agree that the most graceful elf ever shouldn't look like a human...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
People complaining that women with muscles are not elegant are so 20th century XD.

Lelith is, according to the lore, the physical pinnacle of the female Eldar form, so of course she is going to be extremely athletic, she basically spends her entire life either on the gym or in the arena or in the battlefield.

She isn't a woman. She is an alien. So your own feelings made clear are betraying you here. Eldar are not to be held to human standards but eldar standards. Eldar despise bulk. They are attracted to sharp lines and gracefulness.

And I think you don't know what sharp lines and gracefulness are.

Sharp lines have to do with the face, not the body. And the new model does have a sharp face.

Gracefulness has more to do with posture and movement than with body type, and has nothing to do with slenderness or thinness.

Perhaps if the model could move...we could see grace from these stacked quads...Since it cant - need more from the model to make it look fast and appealing.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Your concept of athletic is human. So you are agreeing with me. She looks like a human female soccer player with knives. I agree. Can we agree that the most graceful elf ever shouldn't look like a human...

Not really, because an elf is still humanoid and possesses all the same body parts. Elves will be taller and more slender, but when you're taller you'll be proportionally bigger. I don't much care to put a micrometer on the model to get the ratios to settle what I consider to be a very silly concern.

In fact I just reviewed my past DE codex and all kinds of lelith art. This model is an absolute travesty to the lore and artwork.

 Xenomancers wrote:
In fact I just reviewed my past DE codex and all kinds of lelith art. This model is an absolute travesty to the lore and artwork.

So doesn't look any different from her 8th edition art...a "travesty" is hyperbole.

the_scotsman wrote:


I didn't say you personally and I didn't "accuse you of interneting in buzzword buzzword logical fallacy checkmate atheists". I'm just pointing out that literally any time a female model comes out, even if it's wearing a gigantic robot suit (lol Farsight and the new SoB walkers) and it doesn't look like a Raging Heroes model, people take the opportunity to have a quick whine that it doesn't look like a raging heroes model.

If you weren't referring to my personal take, why did you write it in response to my personal take?

The fact that there may be dumb people on the internet who have had dumb takes about different models has no relevance to my take on this model. It's like saying "well that boy over there cried wolf, so I'm not going to believe you!"

This model fails to represent what it's supposedly depicting. Here's what the 8th edition codex has to say:

Lelith is grace
embodied, her movements hypnotic, sensual
and spellbinding

Can anyone look at that model and with a straight face it it is "grace embodied," "hypnotic," "sensual" or "spellbinding?" I really doubt it.

Ironically one of your other examples, the Keeper of Secrets, is another illustration of the way this model fails. That model has exactly the sort of alien, otherwordly grace that this one is totally lacking. This one just looks like an angry and/or constipated (constipated face being another GW favorite, for male and female sculpts alike) woman. That might be fine for some other model...it isn't for this particular model.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Dai wrote:
Didn't the dakka incels already get one thread shut down cos of this crap?

What is this if not an attempt to get a thread locked?

A request to not have to endure another round of this junk...

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Perhaps if the model could move...we could see grace from these stacked quads...Since it cant - need more from the model to make it look fast and appealing.

Should she also be flashing you her pantsu and calling you master in an overly girlish voice?

Keep in mind. This goes the same for even a male eldar model. Eldar males and females are almost indistinguishable so your incredibly rude reference is really just makes you look silly - I'll grant you a pass as you probably don't know anything about the lore. Notice how drazar looks trim and stream line and sharp. Everyone universally loves the model.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Perhaps if the model could move...we could see grace from these stacked quads...Since it cant - need more from the model to make it look fast and appealing.

Should she also be flashing you her pantsu and calling you master in an overly girlish voice?

Keep in mind. This goes the same for even a male eldar model. Eldar males and females are almost indistinguishable so your incredibly rude reference is really just makes you look silly - I'll grant you a pass as you probably don't know anything about the lore. Notice how drazar looks trim and stream line and sharp. Everyone universally loves the model.

Riiiight. His quads look to be about the same size, soooo...

 Xenomancers wrote:
Keep in mind. This goes the same for even a male eldar model. Eldar males and females are almost indistinguishable so your incredibly rude reference is really just makes you look silly - I'll grant you a pass as you probably don't know anything about the lore. Notice how drazar looks trim and stream line and sharp. Everyone universally loves the model.

This 'lore' is starting to sound a lot like the anime people watch for the 'plot'. Look you want her to look like a thinsporational post because you find that skin and bones 90s supermodel look attractive but the world has moved on.

You're being very insulting for no real reason here. Whether or not you agree with the point, it is really uncalled for to jump straight to name-calling. The toxicity here is ironically (though not untypically for this forum) coming almost exclusively from the people who want to shut down criticism of the model, not those making the criticism. And that remains true regardless of what may happen on the rest of the internet.

Can we please treat one another with a little more respect? Just because someone thinks the model does a bad job of reflecting the character doesn't make them an incel and it doesn't justify personal attacks.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Keep in mind. This goes the same for even a male eldar model. Eldar males and females are almost indistinguishable so your incredibly rude reference is really just makes you look silly - I'll grant you a pass as you probably don't know anything about the lore. Notice how drazar looks trim and stream line and sharp. Everyone universally loves the model.

This 'lore' is starting to sound a lot like the anime people watch for the 'plot'. Look you want her to look like a thinsporational post because you find that skin and bones 90s supermodel look attractive but the world has moved on.

Nah I'll just shut it down right now. It is not about that. I thought I made that clear when I said it could be a male eldar model and I'd still have the same opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Perhaps if the model could move...we could see grace from these stacked quads...Since it cant - need more from the model to make it look fast and appealing.

Should she also be flashing you her pantsu and calling you master in an overly girlish voice?

Keep in mind. This goes the same for even a male eldar model. Eldar males and females are almost indistinguishable so your incredibly rude reference is really just makes you look silly - I'll grant you a pass as you probably don't know anything about the lore. Notice how drazar looks trim and stream line and sharp. Everyone universally loves the model.

Riiiight. His quads look to be about the same size, soooo...

The same size but he is wearing light plate armor?