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2021/02/15 22:00:50
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Stalked21 wrote: Painted this army in 2 weeks painting 45-60 min a night...... not perfect but 10 points
Good for you.
What if I can't see well, or have muscle twitches, and therefore can't paint that fast no matter how hard I try?
Or, in a non-hypothetical, what if I don't like to paint?
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
And if I just don't like to paint?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2021/02/15 22:02:24
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Not really. I don't have to house rule anything. Want to use match play rules - RAW is you get 10 points for painted army. The game isn't designed to be played with D bags or sticklers ether. The rule at it's core is good - everyone enjoys playing with and against painted armies more. This encourages that. As a non D bag myself - if I see real effort - I will not deduct the points.
Says the guy who's judging what someone elses "real effort" is....
I am dumbfounded. You must be misunderstanding me. I am literally saying people should be lenient with the implementation of the 10 points rule. Effort over RAW in this case. Are they trying to paint their army essentially. If the answer is no...they get no points.
Given that your going on about how if you see "real progress" that's possible.
Oh, and BTW you are misapplying the rule as well. As written the max pts for a mission using this poo rule is that max pts available through play is 90/person. YOU don't get to deduct any pts from someone elses score. All that happens is that YOU can earn +10 more if YOUR army is Battle Ready.
2021/02/15 22:02:45
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Cebalrai wrote: Start small, at about 500 points or so. Don't play until it's done, devote the time to painting instead. If you've got a buddy who's also working on something, invite him over for a painting session. Play with your finished 500 points and grow from there.
This is how you do it.
Thread closed. Mic Drop.
Or, and just think about this for a second...how about we let people do what the hell the want with their plastic toys? If someone wants to play first, then paint, why should we stop them, or make it harder?
Besides the eternal will of the online gatekeeper of course.
It is actually a GW rule. Why should we follow any GW rule but not this one?
Do what you like. I'm not going to use this rule. If you're unhappy about that, you're free not to play me. No skin off of my teeth.
2021/02/15 22:03:38
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Then you find other people who also don't like to paint, or who don't mind modifying the core rules of the game to accommodate your preferences. I dunno what the big deal is either way. This whole thing seems like a massive tempest in a teacup. It's a rule you can play with or not as you choose, that has no impact on the actual game, so it literally doesn't even matter whether you choose to play with it or not. You can choose to play with it and your opponent can choose to play without it and you can both play the game exactly the same, you just have different ideas of who "won" at the end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:04:40
2021/02/15 22:04:34
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Cebalrai wrote: Start small, at about 500 points or so. Don't play until it's done, devote the time to painting instead. If you've got a buddy who's also working on something, invite him over for a painting session. Play with your finished 500 points and grow from there.
This is how you do it.
Thread closed. Mic Drop.
Or, and just think about this for a second...how about we let people do what the hell the want with their plastic toys? If someone wants to play first, then paint, why should we stop them, or make it harder?
Besides the eternal will of the online gatekeeper of course.
Buy 500 points start small than build up from there... it’s what I did had an army in about 2 weeks.
Ok. And if no one wants to play 500 points? Or if it still takes months to paint 500 points to a quality that I'm satisfied? What then? Why should I let someone else's standards dictate what I do with one of my hobbies (paint, build, collect, play)?
2021/02/15 22:05:04
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Stalked21 wrote: Painted this army in 2 weeks painting 45-60 min a night...... not perfect but 10 points
Good for you.
What if I can't see well, or have muscle twitches, and therefore can't paint that fast no matter how hard I try?
Or, in a non-hypothetical, what if I don't like to paint?
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
And if I just don't like to paint?
Idunno don’t get 10 points. Sometimes life favors those who try
2021/02/15 22:06:52
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
Sure. And not everyone cares enough to put that will in. Or has time. Or can get that done even if they have 9,001x the will you have.
You're using your situation and assuming everyone else can meet that as a baseline, despite dozens of people telling you that's not the case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:08:26
2021/02/15 22:08:41
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Why should I let someone else's standards dictate what I do with one of my hobbies (paint, build, collect, play)?
Well, that depends, doesn't it? Are there enough people who share your preferences that you can do what you want and still have fun? Then have at it! Whether that's ignoring the painting rules or ignoring the coherency rules or ignoring any other rule of the game, more power to you! If there aren't, you'll probably need to compromise your own preferences to meet those of the people around you, to whatever degree is sufficient to get enough people to enjoy the hobby the way you want to enjoy it.
You don't have to compromise anything unless you want to. They don't have to compromise anything unless they want to. That's the great thing about tabletop gaming. You can do absolutely anything you want as long as you can find enough like-minded people to go along with it.
In this case, it's a terribly stupid thing to draw lines in the sand over, because you don't even need to compromise. You can say you're not playing with the painting rules, they can say they're playing with them. At the end of the game, you'll have one score you consider the score for the game, and they'll have a different one. They can win according to their rules, you can win according to yours (if the game is that close). Everybody's happy! Unless, of course, part of your enjoyment of the game relies on getting your opponent to acknowledge your version of how the game went. Which is something that is going to inhibit your enjoyment of gaming generally, so it's something best to work to get rid of the need for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:10:54
2021/02/15 22:08:48
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
vict0988 wrote: This is just another way that 9th is for narrative players first. Am I supposed to not allow SM to use Oath of Moment either?
I don't think 40k has been more angled toward competitive players than 9th is since I started in 5th.
In my experience most people who don't paint their armies haven't done it not because they can't, but because they don't want to/don't care. *of course I know some people who genuinely do have more difficulty painting.
The 10pts rule is intended to give competitive players a reason to care as well.
Let's face it, there is a core of players who won't paint the army because they do not want to impede the reselling price.
Jokes on you, most of my eBay minis are painted and based, all in their own unique ways. The pirate Phaeron Thaszar does not discriminate.
The evidence for 9th being narrative is everywhere, this thread did not exist in the previous edition. 9th also brought back the genius idea of sandwiching images and narrative in between the matched play rules. GW couldn't even copy the ITC Champions missions without injecting narrative into everything, making a decently balanced and immensely fun system much worse and the ITC guys have been muzzled and stopped from improving the game.
I recently read an article on GW playtesting, it was, unfortunately, a little vague and went into a lot of detail about who tested instead of how they tested. All they talk about how much effort it is to be a playtester, well, it takes a great amount of effort to dig a ditch with a garden shovel, I want to know if they are using garden shovels or excavators to test their rules. It's great to read that they did two rounds of playtesting for 8th and that they listened to playtesters, but that doesn't fit with what playtesters have said about 9th and it fails to deliver the juicy details or even acknowledge that the GW rules writing team pump out tonnes of imbalanced and poorly written rules. 9th is really close to being perfect and I want to know why it isn't, did GW listen too much to the casual playtesters of the Infinity Circuit and the evil knife-ear podcasters and not enough to the competitive playtesters of the Mournival and evil man Reecio?
2021/02/15 22:12:09
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
Sure. And not everyone cares enough to put that will in. Or has time. Or can get that done even if they have 9,001x the will you have.
You're using your situation and assuming everyone else can meet that as a baseline, despite dozens of people telling you that's not the case.
Well that’s them everyone has different situations but if you can’t for the 15th time prime. Base and shade or layer which I would count as 10 points than damn you must be even more busy than I am. Especially with lockdowns what else is even going on?
2021/02/15 22:18:19
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Why should I let someone else's standards dictate what I do with one of my hobbies (paint, build, collect, play)?
Well, that depends, doesn't it? Are there enough people who share your preferences that you can do what you want and still have fun? Then have at it! Whether that's ignoring the painting rules or ignoring the coherency rules or ignoring any other rule of the game, more power to you! If there aren't, you'll probably need to compromise your own preferences to meet those of the people around you, to whatever degree is sufficient to get enough people to enjoy the hobby the way you want to enjoy it.
You don't have to compromise anything unless you want to. They don't have to compromise anything unless they want to. That's the great thing about tabletop gaming. You can do absolutely anything you want as long as you can find enough like-minded people to go along with it.
In this case, it's a terribly stupid thing to draw lines in the sand over, because you don't even need to compromise. You can say you're not playing with the painting rules, they can say they're playing with them. At the end of the game, you'll have one score you consider the score for the game, and they'll have a different one. They can win according to their rules, you can win according to yours (if the game is that close). Everybody's happy! Unless, of course, part of your enjoyment of the game relies on getting your opponent to acknowledge your version of how the game went. Which is something that is going to inhibit your enjoyment of gaming generally, so it's something best to work to get rid of the need for.
Apparently there are enough people who share my preference.
Sure, I would have to compromise. But in this case compromise is pretty much limited to "no paint rule, or no game". There really isn't much that can be given up that wouldn't end things up in the same situation as free victory points.
You think it's a stupid reason to draw a line in the sand. I think it's a battle worth having. And no, life doesn't work the way you described. Literally no one would settle on two different points totals. All this does is harm communities and pisses everyone off.
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
Sure. And not everyone cares enough to put that will in. Or has time. Or can get that done even if they have 9,001x the will you have.
You're using your situation and assuming everyone else can meet that as a baseline, despite dozens of people telling you that's not the case.
Well that’s them everyone has different situations but if you can’t for the 15th time prime. Base and shade or layer which I would count as 10 points than damn you must be even more busy than I am. Especially with lockdowns what else is even going on?
What could stop that? You mean besides cold weather, work, family, other hobbies, sickness, physical issues such as eye quality, or hands, wow, that list just keeps going!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:22:15
2021/02/15 22:22:51
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Mmmpi wrote: And no, life doesn't work the way you described. Literally no one would settle on two different points totals. All this does is harm communities and pisses everyone off.
I am literally someone, so your statement is literally wrong.
But why wouldn't you? If it's not a tournament, who cares? Why in your need to win so great that you not only need to win according to the rules you're applying, but you also need to force your opponent to acknowledge that your rules are the correct ones? That's classic WAAC behavior. Normally rules disputes matter because you can't continue the game playing by two different sets of rules, but in this case, you can, so why create an argument where none needs to exist?
The only good thing about this rule is that it has zero impact on the actual game, so it doesn't matter whether you agree to play with it or not. You can still play the exact same game together while each getting to have it your way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:24:58
2021/02/15 22:23:35
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Racerguy180 wrote: If you have no desire to paint you're army, why the feth are you playing a game that has painting as part of it?
Maybe you don't like painting. Maybe you can't paint. Maybe you have vision of mobility issues that making painting a pain if not impossible.
Racerguy180 wrote: Go play with some cardboard chits instead, would probably save money.
But what if you like the miniatures.
addnid wrote: People who are too lazy to paint should just go play a game that doesn’t require painting.
Hi. I'm colourblind, have unsteady hands, and basically can't see out of one eye.
But no, I'm just 'lazy' about painting.
I see the white Knight is out again. Hah hah.
This game doesn't require painting.
Warhammer 40k has literally one rule that references painted models, and it's the 10 point rule.
No other rule requires your models to have paint on them. They do require models for Line of Sight, but paint is exclusively limited to 10 points because you like painting and gaming, instead of just gaming.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2021/02/15 22:24:14
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Why should I let someone else's standards dictate what I do with one of my hobbies (paint, build, collect, play)?
Well, that depends, doesn't it? Are there enough people who share your preferences that you can do what you want and still have fun? Then have at it! Whether that's ignoring the painting rules or ignoring the coherency rules or ignoring any other rule of the game, more power to you! If there aren't, you'll probably need to compromise your own preferences to meet those of the people around you, to whatever degree is sufficient to get enough people to enjoy the hobby the way you want to enjoy it.
You don't have to compromise anything unless you want to. They don't have to compromise anything unless they want to. That's the great thing about tabletop gaming. You can do absolutely anything you want as long as you can find enough like-minded people to go along with it.
In this case, it's a terribly stupid thing to draw lines in the sand over, because you don't even need to compromise. You can say you're not playing with the painting rules, they can say they're playing with them. At the end of the game, you'll have one score you consider the score for the game, and they'll have a different one. They can win according to their rules, you can win according to yours (if the game is that close). Everybody's happy! Unless, of course, part of your enjoyment of the game relies on getting your opponent to acknowledge your version of how the game went. Which is something that is going to inhibit your enjoyment of gaming generally, so it's something best to work to get rid of the need for.
Apparently there are enough people who share my preference.
Sure, I would have to compromise. But in this case compromise is pretty much limited to "no paint rule, or no game". There really isn't much that can be given up that wouldn't end things up in the same situation as free victory points.
You think it's a stupid reason to draw a line in the sand. I think it's a battle worth having. And no, life doesn't work the way you described. Literally no one would settle on two different points totals. All this does is harm communities and pisses everyone off.
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
Sure. And not everyone cares enough to put that will in. Or has time. Or can get that done even if they have 9,001x the will you have.
You're using your situation and assuming everyone else can meet that as a baseline, despite dozens of people telling you that's not the case.
Well that’s them everyone has different situations but if you can’t for the 15th time prime. Base and shade or layer which I would count as 10 points than damn you must be even more busy than I am. Especially with lockdowns what else is even going on?
What could stop that? You mean besides cold weather, work, family, other hobbies, sickness, physical issues such as eye quality, or hands, wow, that list just keeps going!
Not getting things for free is hard sometimes.
2021/02/15 22:24:20
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
yukishiro1 wrote: Why wouldn't you? If it's not a tournament, who cares? Why in your need to win so great that you not only need to win according to the rules you're applying, but you also need to force your opponent to acknowledge that your rules are the correct ones?
The only good thing about this rule is that it has zero impact on the actual game, so it doesn't matter whether you agree to play with it or not. You can still play the exact same game together while each getting to have it your way.
Why is your need to win so great that you have to force a non-game requirement onto people just to have a chance at winning?
The only good thing about this rule is that is lets me know who in my group can feth off, and who are worth my time.
Why should I let someone else's standards dictate what I do with one of my hobbies (paint, build, collect, play)?
Well, that depends, doesn't it? Are there enough people who share your preferences that you can do what you want and still have fun? Then have at it! Whether that's ignoring the painting rules or ignoring the coherency rules or ignoring any other rule of the game, more power to you! If there aren't, you'll probably need to compromise your own preferences to meet those of the people around you, to whatever degree is sufficient to get enough people to enjoy the hobby the way you want to enjoy it.
You don't have to compromise anything unless you want to. They don't have to compromise anything unless they want to. That's the great thing about tabletop gaming. You can do absolutely anything you want as long as you can find enough like-minded people to go along with it.
In this case, it's a terribly stupid thing to draw lines in the sand over, because you don't even need to compromise. You can say you're not playing with the painting rules, they can say they're playing with them. At the end of the game, you'll have one score you consider the score for the game, and they'll have a different one. They can win according to their rules, you can win according to yours (if the game is that close). Everybody's happy! Unless, of course, part of your enjoyment of the game relies on getting your opponent to acknowledge your version of how the game went. Which is something that is going to inhibit your enjoyment of gaming generally, so it's something best to work to get rid of the need for.
Apparently there are enough people who share my preference.
Sure, I would have to compromise. But in this case compromise is pretty much limited to "no paint rule, or no game". There really isn't much that can be given up that wouldn't end things up in the same situation as free victory points.
You think it's a stupid reason to draw a line in the sand. I think it's a battle worth having. And no, life doesn't work the way you described. Literally no one would settle on two different points totals. All this does is harm communities and pisses everyone off.
Where there is a will there is a way. The paints nowadays are way better than the older versions like I’ve been saying at least prime them do a quick base color, layer or shade. Even with shaky hands which I’ve got cause electrician you can figure it out
Sure. And not everyone cares enough to put that will in. Or has time. Or can get that done even if they have 9,001x the will you have.
You're using your situation and assuming everyone else can meet that as a baseline, despite dozens of people telling you that's not the case.
Well that’s them everyone has different situations but if you can’t for the 15th time prime. Base and shade or layer which I would count as 10 points than damn you must be even more busy than I am. Especially with lockdowns what else is even going on?
What could stop that? You mean besides cold weather, work, family, other hobbies, sickness, physical issues such as eye quality, or hands, wow, that list just keeps going!
Not getting things for free is hard sometimes.
[/spoiler]
Yeah, I guess you need your free victory points.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:25:59
2021/02/15 22:26:56
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
There are a huge range of hidden assumptions behind this single rule.
That everyone has the same amount of free time to sink into every aspect of the hobby rather than those aspects they actually like
That they can physically paint
That if they can't or won't, they have enough money to pay someone else to do it.
This rule has many intentions, but they are irrelevant to the actual practical outcomes on legitimising gatekeeping in the hobby.
It literally says if you don't engage with this hobby in the prescribed ways, the game is designed to punish you for it (just because something is a reward for one person doesn't absolve it of being a punishment in absentia for others).
Now there are plenty of reasons I wouldn't want to play someone who doesn't have a painted army that have nothing to do with their army. The lack of painting may be a visual indicator that they are a WAAC gamer and cheese master and I wouldn't wan to play someone like that anyway.
Painting is but one aspect of the hobby. This rule tries to connect the gaming side with the painting side, but it does so in a way that clearly says if you aren't a middle class able bodied, free time-rich person, you should be punished for not being able to do all the prescribed aspects of enjoying the GW Hobby (TM).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:27:51
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.
So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.
2021/02/15 22:31:34
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
yukishiro1 wrote: Why wouldn't you? If it's not a tournament, who cares? Why in your need to win so great that you not only need to win according to the rules you're applying, but you also need to force your opponent to acknowledge that your rules are the correct ones?
The only good thing about this rule is that it has zero impact on the actual game, so it doesn't matter whether you agree to play with it or not. You can still play the exact same game together while each getting to have it your way.
Why is your need to win so great that you have to force a non-game requirement onto people just to have a chance at winning?
The only good thing about this rule is that is lets me know who in my group can feth off, and who are worth my time.
Mate, I feel like you are really confused here on a pretty basic level. Believe it or not, I'm not Games Workshop. I didn't write this rule. I'm flattered that you thought I was, but we need to clear this up right away, before you start blaming me for all the other bad rules GW writes.
And I'm doing literally the opposite of forcing it on you - I'm telling you there is a perfect way to resolve an impasse over this rule, that doesn't require anyone to give up anything. If you want to play without the 10 points rule, and the other guy wants to play with it, you can just both play the way each one of you wants to. Nothing changes in the game, so you can both have your own set of rules, and it won't impact anything at all. Everyone gets what they wants. It's the definition of win-win.
But that isn't good enough for you. You not only need to be able to play without the rule, you need to force your opponent to acknowledge it too. Why is that? Why can't you just play the game, and at the end, you can have your score and they can have theirs? Why the need to force your preferences onto them?
2021/02/15 22:33:51
Subject: Re:You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Think of the miniatures that you could have painted with the time you invested in typing about a rule about painting!
edit - And I think that yukishiro1 has the answer for those who feel its an impasse. If its not in a tourney who cares about 10VP? Like has anybody actually seen this come up?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:35:41
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2021/02/15 22:36:18
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Mmmpi wrote: To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.
So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.
True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.
2021/02/15 22:39:41
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
yukishiro1 wrote: Why wouldn't you? If it's not a tournament, who cares? Why in your need to win so great that you not only need to win according to the rules you're applying, but you also need to force your opponent to acknowledge that your rules are the correct ones?
The only good thing about this rule is that it has zero impact on the actual game, so it doesn't matter whether you agree to play with it or not. You can still play the exact same game together while each getting to have it your way.
Why is your need to win so great that you have to force a non-game requirement onto people just to have a chance at winning?
The only good thing about this rule is that is lets me know who in my group can feth off, and who are worth my time.
Mate, I feel like you are really confused here on a pretty basic level. Believe it or not, I'm not Games Workshop. I didn't write this rule. I'm flattered that you thought I was, but we need to clear this up right away, before you start blaming me for all the other bad rules GW writes.
And I'm doing literally the opposite of forcing it on you - I'm telling you there is a perfect way to resolve an impasse over this rule, that doesn't require anyone to give up anything. If you want to play without the 10 points rule, and the other guy wants to play with it, you can just both play the way each one of you wants to. Nothing changes in the game, so you can both have your own set of rules, and it won't impact anything at all. Everyone gets what they wants. It's the definition of win-win.
But that isn't good enough for you. You not only need to be able to play without the rule, you need to force your opponent to acknowledge it too. Why is that? Why can't you just play the game, and at the end, you can have your score and they can have theirs? Why the need to force your preferences onto them?
Cute. Making things up about me, or what I wrote, won't change my mind. Or make me any more receptive. The opposite actually.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TangoTwoBravo wrote: Think of the miniatures that you could have painted with the time you invested in typing about a rule about painting!
edit - And I think that yukishiro1 has the answer for those who feel its an impasse. If its not in a tourney who cares about 10VP? Like has anybody actually seen this come up?
At the speed I usually paint at? Half a model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/15 22:40:17
2021/02/15 22:40:57
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Mmmpi wrote: To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.
So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.
True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.
Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2021/02/15 22:41:17
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
I never thought people could be so extreme and engaged in defending what is, in the vast majority of cases, basically ininfluent. GW attitude against third models party, conversions, push towards standardizes scenery all deserve much more blame that this small nudge to drive people towards the hobby.
I think it's good to discuss about this. If this rules hurt you so much, then you care too much about imaginary points and nothing about the game experience. Probably the community as a whole can get a net gain by someone who is so enraged to leave the hobby: addiction by subtraction of a negative element.
I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it.
2021/02/15 22:41:29
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Mmmpi wrote: To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.
So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.
True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.
You're assuming I don't have a fully painted army, when I have multiple fully painted armies.
This might be a stretch for you, but I'm capable of advocating for things that don't directly benefit me.
2021/02/15 22:42:21
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Mmmpi wrote: To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.
So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.
True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.
But that's really missing the point, isn't it? It's true that the vast majority of people who play with plastic could paint their minis, and just don't want to bother. But so what? Why should they do something they don't enjoy doing? It's a hobby, not a job. If they can find enough like-minded people who enjoy the tide of grey, more power to them! You should play the game you want to play it, assuming you can find enough other people to go along with it.
It's the weird need so many people in this thread show to force their preferences on others that's the problem. If you don't like the 10 points for painting rule? Great, don't play with it! If you do like it? Great too, play with it! You don't even need to agree with one another to play, since it has no in-game impact. That's really the end of it. This rule has no real impact on anything at all, except people who are so uptight that they not only have to have it their way but have to get their opponent to bow down to their way of playing the game too.
2021/02/15 22:44:29
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
From a gameplay perspective, I think a sea of grey is hard to distinguish at a glance. Even table ready (3 colors including a base and a wash) it's difficult to tell some unit's from another unit if they are all poorly painted. Sea of grey just seems crappy to play against. If you have two squads of 30 conscripts, all of the Grey Legion, how do I call you out on being out of coherency or tell your units apart if they get mixed together?
I mean I just paint my models because I want to at least provide a level playing environment. It's not fair, or fun sometimes, to play against a fully unpainted horde list. Now if you are playing Knights, Custodes, or all Tanks, etc (Armies less than 15 models) then I can see that not being a problem.
But I would never call for the points simply because of what I choose to do with my free time, because I don't want to judge the other player.
2021/02/15 22:45:30
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
Cute. Making things up about me, or what I wrote, won't change my mind. Or make me any more receptive. The opposite actually.
I wasn't making up anything about you or what you wrote. I was trying to make sense of your comment. I was literally doing the opposite of forcing anything on anybody, so what you wrote didn't make any possible sense unless you thought I was somehow affiliated with GW.
If you don't want to address the substance of what I wrote that's up to you, but you ought to take responsibility for it, just like you ought to admit that you are forcing your preferences onto others by insisting they not play with the rule, just as much as anyone insisting you play with the rule is forcing their preferences onto you. And it's a shame, because there's absolutely no need for anyone force anyone's preferences on anyone when in comes to this rule.
2021/02/15 22:46:44
Subject: You dont have a painted army, but he does. He wants his 10 points?
But that's really missing the point, isn't it? It's true that the vast majority of people who play with plastic could paint their minis, and just don't want to bother. But so what? Why should they do something they don't enjoy doing? It's a hobby, not a job. If they can find enough like-minded people who enjoy the tide of grey, more power to them! You should play the game you want to play it, assuming you can find enough other people to go along with it.
It's the weird need so many people in this thread show to force their preferences on others that's the problem. If you don't like the 10 points for painting rule? Great, don't play with it! If you do like it? Great too, play with it! You don't even need to agree with one another to play, since it has no in-game impact. That's really the end of it. This rule has no real impact on anything at all, except people who are so uptight that they not only have to have it their way but have to get their opponent to bow down to their way of playing the game too.
I think you're making an assumption here when you say most people just aren't bothering. Rather, most people are making progress, but want to do more than sit at home and paint model by themselves. (Yes, you can paint at 'paint days' but that's not an every day thing for most people)
It's not weird that people are showing their preferences. People were directed asked their opinion by the OP.
