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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
From a gameplay perspective, I think a sea of grey is hard to distinguish at a glance. Even table ready (3 colors including a base and a wash) it's difficult to tell some unit's from another unit if they are all poorly painted. Sea of grey just seems crappy to play against. If you have two squads of 30 conscripts, all of the Grey Legion, how do I call you out on being out of coherency or tell your units apart if they get mixed together?

I mean I just paint my models because I want to at least provide a level playing environment. It's not fair, or fun sometimes, to play against a fully unpainted horde list. Now if you are playing Knights, Custodes, or all Tanks, etc (Armies less than 15 models) then I can see that not being a problem.

But I would never call for the points simply because of what I choose to do with my free time, because I don't want to judge the other player.

How do you tell 60 conscripts apart if they're all painted the same? I bring that up because this painting rule encourages people to just batch paint the whole thing as fast as possible, which doesn't (for me at least) make it any easier to tell units apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stalked21 wrote:

Spoiler:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.

So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.

True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.

Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.

Pitty party table for one!

Let us know when your table is free.

 Mmmpi wrote:


I think you're making an assumption here when you say most people just aren't bothering. Rather, most people are making progress, but want to do more than sit at home and paint model by themselves. (Yes, you can paint at 'paint days' but that's not an every day thing for most people)

It's not weird that people are showing their preferences. People were directed asked their opinion by the OP.

Of course I'm making an assumption, generalized from my own experience. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong. But the point of the comment was it doesn't matter why people aren't painting - even if it is just laziness, that's totally fine! If you don't enjoy painting, why should you do it?

But the original poster asked what to do in a situation where one person wants to use the rule and the other person doesn't. To which the obvious answer is: Each of you keep score the way you want to and if when you get to the end of the game those 10 VPs make a difference, each of you can have your own score and decide who won based on it. Everybody's happy! It's totally win-win!

So it's weird and unfortunate that it immediately degenerated into a bunch of people fighting with each other as to whose way of playing is the true, correct, morally superior way, when there's absolutely no need to have that fight.

 Mmmpi wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
From a gameplay perspective, I think a sea of grey is hard to distinguish at a glance. Even table ready (3 colors including a base and a wash) it's difficult to tell some unit's from another unit if they are all poorly painted. Sea of grey just seems crappy to play against. If you have two squads of 30 conscripts, all of the Grey Legion, how do I call you out on being out of coherency or tell your units apart if they get mixed together?

I mean I just paint my models because I want to at least provide a level playing environment. It's not fair, or fun sometimes, to play against a fully unpainted horde list. Now if you are playing Knights, Custodes, or all Tanks, etc (Armies less than 15 models) then I can see that not being a problem.

But I would never call for the points simply because of what I choose to do with my free time, because I don't want to judge the other player.

How do you tell 60 conscripts apart if they're all painted the same? I bring that up because this painting rule encourages people to just batch paint the whole thing as fast as possible, which doesn't (for me at least) make it any easier to tell units apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stalked21 wrote:

Spoiler:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.

So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.

True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.

Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.

Pitty party table for one!

Let us know when your table is free.

Might be a while my tables covered in painted models.

Stalked21 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Mmmpi wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
From a gameplay perspective, I think a sea of grey is hard to distinguish at a glance. Even table ready (3 colors including a base and a wash) it's difficult to tell some unit's from another unit if they are all poorly painted. Sea of grey just seems crappy to play against. If you have two squads of 30 conscripts, all of the Grey Legion, how do I call you out on being out of coherency or tell your units apart if they get mixed together?

I mean I just paint my models because I want to at least provide a level playing environment. It's not fair, or fun sometimes, to play against a fully unpainted horde list. Now if you are playing Knights, Custodes, or all Tanks, etc (Armies less than 15 models) then I can see that not being a problem.

But I would never call for the points simply because of what I choose to do with my free time, because I don't want to judge the other player.

How do you tell 60 conscripts apart if they're all painted the same? I bring that up because this painting rule encourages people to just batch paint the whole thing as fast as possible, which doesn't (for me at least) make it any easier to tell units apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stalked21 wrote:
[spoiler]

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.

So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.

True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.

Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.

Pitty party table for one!

Let us know when your table is free.

Stalked21 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.

So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.

True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.

Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.

Pitty party table for one!

I'm not asking for pity. I'm asking you to understand y'all are defending a gakky rule and don't understand the principle of, especially if you need to try to houserule and edit per game, it was a garbage rule to begin with. Go off being white Knights though.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Cebalrai wrote:
Start small, at about 500 points or so. Don't play until it's done, devote the time to painting instead. If you've got a buddy who's also working on something, invite him over for a painting session. Play with your finished 500 points and grow from there.

This is how you do it.

Thread closed. Mic Drop.

Or, and just think about this for a second...how about we let people do what the hell the want with their plastic toys? If someone wants to play first, then paint, why should we stop them, or make it harder?

Besides the eternal will of the online gatekeeper of course.

It is actually a GW rule. Why should we follow any GW rule but not this one?

We follow GW rules because it is convenient to have one set of rules for everyone. If GW writers snapped one day completely and made strip 40k the official matched ruleset, it would no longer be convenient (or sane) to play "by GW rules".

This is of course in no way as bad as the theoretical strip variant, but it's also annoying and discourages painting well over painting fast, making for a worse experience overall.

In the end, sane people will be able to agree before game if this rule applies or not, people who try to use it as a gotcha may find themselves with a shrunk pool of opponents in the long run (but a table full of painted models for their v-day dinner i suppose)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stalked21 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
To add to Hellebore's answer, it also punishes people who are trying to paint, but want to do more than sit at home for weeks/months before getting into this cool game they just picked up.

So hurting new people who are doing 'the right thing'.

True i was away from home for most of 8th edition and unable to even paint due to work than Covid hit trapping me overseas for an additional 5 months now I’m back and I still am still playing catch-up. Even with all this I can play a 2K game with a fully painted army. Chip at the Boulder and you’ll get results.

Good for you. Try working two Healthcare jobs and finding time to paint in between that free time. Good punishment for me I guess, all while still deciding what the actual paint scheme will be.

Pitty party table for one!

I'm not asking for pity. I'm asking you to understand y'all are defending a gakky rule and don't understand the principle of, especially if you need to try to houserule and edit per game, it was a garbage rule to begin with. Go off being white Knights though.

I follow rules as in the black and white if it hurts your fee fees don’t play.

I won't be playing you. I've made it clear that I won't use the rule, and would rather not play than use it.

Considering GW rules though, I'm not sure they're playable in B&W.

Could y'all please stop lobbing super lame insults at one another, it's just making work for the mods and encouraging them to lock the thread down.

If you've gotten to the point where insulting each other is the only conversation you can have, it's best to just stop conversing.

Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

Voss wrote:
Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

As a hypothetical bad rule it works just fine. I mean, they weren't suggesting that it was possible, just that if it somehow did, that almost no one would use it.

I've been in the hobby for over 20 years and have NEVER played with a fully painted army.

It just hasn't been far up on my list of priorities and i've usually preferred the modeling, converting and gaming parts of the hobby and only ever bothered to paint the odd unit or character here and there. Nobody has ever made any comments on any of my armies or judged me for not having things fully painted.

I am not a tournament player and could somewhat understand the painted army rule being enforced at the more 'prestegious' tournaments. However if i was looking to play someone casually or in a local tournament and they looked to enforce this rule i would probably just not bother playing them. If someone is happy to take advantage of this 'handicap' whilst playing a friendly game then they aren't the kind of person i am interested in playing anyway.

Recently however i have found myself having extra motivation and have pledged to try and complete one army per year (i have 6 armies between 40k and Warhammer Fantasy).

First up being my Biel-Tan Eldar having managed to fully paint in the past 10 months:

Avatar and Court of the Young King
Farseer and Seer Council
8 different units of Aspect Warriors
Rangers
4 Wave Serpents
3 Fire Prisms/Nightspinners
3 Falcons
1 Crimson Hunter

The only things left to complete the army are a unit of Shadow Specters and 40 Eldar Guardians and i am proud of the progress i have made.

Regardless of my newfound enthusiasm i still have no interest in enforcing the painted army rule. Everybody has their own way to enjoy their hobby and i have no interest in giving myself an unfair advantage over an opponent in a local game.

Voss wrote:
Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

Maybe he meant if you lose the game, you have to strip all the paint off your miniatures and repaint them?

LA's Totally Awesome works great for stripping. Although others favour Simple Green.

Just saying.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
LA's Totally Awesome works great for stripping. Although others favour Simple Green.

Just saying.

Simple clean works the best I’ve found out stripped my whole IF army in about a week even took off the primer

 Mmmpi wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

As a hypothetical bad rule it works just fine. I mean, they weren't suggesting that it was possible, just that if it somehow did, that almost no one would use it.

What works fine is people just accepting that its liked and disliked by different people. For all the pages of back and forth (again) and bad logic everywhere (especially 10 != 10), nothing has changed.

The only time its going to matter is if someone actually on the other side of a physical table is severely passionate about it (in one way or the other). Here its just an internet debate attracting flies.

Voss wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

As a hypothetical bad rule it works just fine. I mean, they weren't suggesting that it was possible, just that if it somehow did, that almost no one would use it.

What works fine is people just accepting that its liked and disliked by different people. For all the pages of back and forth (again) and bad logic everywhere (especially 10 != 10), nothing has changed.

The only time its going to matter is if someone actually on the other side of a physical table is severely passionate about it (in one way or the other). Here its just an internet debate attracting flies.

Sure. But then, the bad logic coming from the gatekeepers should be opposed so casual readers don't think it's the only way to do things. And let me know if you like paying 10% more on things. 10% is a lot.

 Mmmpi wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

Voss wrote:
Wow. 'Strip 40k' isn't the worst thing I've ever seen result from a 'slippery slope' argument, but its definitely up there on the weirdness scale.

Though tying stripping and painting to an evaluation of 'sanity' is a bit much.

As a hypothetical bad rule it works just fine. I mean, they weren't suggesting that it was possible, just that if it somehow did, that almost no one would use it.

What works fine is people just accepting that its liked and disliked by different people. For all the pages of back and forth (again) and bad logic everywhere (especially 10 != 10), nothing has changed.

The only time its going to matter is if someone actually on the other side of a physical table is severely passionate about it (in one way or the other). Here its just an internet debate attracting flies.

Sure. But then, the bad logic coming from the gatekeepers should be opposed so casual readers don't think it's the only way to do things. And let me know if you like paying 10% more on things. 10% is a lot.

Bad logic should be opposed no matter who its coming from. Regardless of 'casual readers' and what they might by thinking.
And regardless of which side your hypothetical gatekeepers might be on. I see them on both sides.

Both sides is often a terrible argument. This conversation isn't any different.

Funny thing is so far ive never faced anybody obnoxious enough or with enough of a fully based and painted army to do this. I also don't plan on facing them. If it's that big of a deal to you then I just won't play you.

I will be 100% honest and say i did not expect 10 pages when i asked my question which started this thread. I dont really skulk around a lot on the general forum so i was really just curious. I had not met anyone who wanted to claim his ten points before, at all, so i was curious if those types existed at all. Which i guess they do, looking at this thread. Apparently i just dont meet them.

I had recently just made 2 other posts in the general forums, and those 2 along side this one was just made out of curiocity. I didnt know there had been a long discussion about it before i made mine, and i didnt bother using the search engine nor necro old threads in case i wanted my opinion to be heard.


But oh well here we are .

Amazing how fast this simple questions has spawned 10 pages. And really it is all pretty simple.

Games Workshop makes the rules of the game as they want it played. They decided that painting should be a factor in their Matched Play format and put that in the rules. If you want to play by the rules as published, then players playing with a fully painted to Battle Ready army get 10 points. We can certainly discuss why, but those are the rules.

Any two players are allowed to change any rules of the game they see fit. If you and your opponent don't want to use this rule, then don't. If one of you does, then the two of you need to decide what is more important, getting your way or playing the game.

Expecting your opponent to play by the rules doesn't make someone WAAC, unreasonable, or any other negative character trait someone may want to call them. Some people think the designated hitter rules is an abomination against baseball. If you pay in the American League, you have to live with a designated hitter.

As for those who lack the time, ability, or inclination to paint, it's not your opponents problem to solve. That is your issue to resolve whether that means prioritizing your time differently, finding an alternative way to get your models painted, just sucking it up and playing down 10 points, or not playing if you can't get the rule waived by your opponent. The choice is yours. Regardless on how you resolve the issue, your opponent isn't the bad guy for expecting the written rules to be followed.

I mean, what you're saying was from page 1. Most of the rest is about the moral implication of forcing other players to follow a single way to enjoy the game aspect of the hobbies, as well as the idea that people don't need a rule to motivate them to paint, nor that they should be punished for not doing the steps in order.

And this forces players to follow a single way to enjoy the game how?

 alextroy wrote:
And this forces players to follow a single way to enjoy the game how?

Not sure why you think I support one single way of playing considering my comments over the last 10 pages.

10 pages in one day. This topic isn't divisive at all!

 Mmmpi wrote:
I mean, what you're saying was from page 1. Most of the rest is about the moral implication of forcing other players to follow a single way to enjoy the game aspect of the hobbies, as well as the idea that people don't need a rule to motivate them to paint, nor that they should be punished for not doing the steps in order.

Nobody is forced to do anything; you don't have to paint, I don't have to play your grey army, and you don't have to play me. You just don't want people to get any reward for painting their models.

 Irkjoe wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
I mean, what you're saying was from page 1. Most of the rest is about the moral implication of forcing other players to follow a single way to enjoy the game aspect of the hobbies, as well as the idea that people don't need a rule to motivate them to paint, nor that they should be punished for not doing the steps in order.

Nobody is forced to do anything; you don't have to paint, I don't have to play your grey army, and you don't have to play me. You just don't want people to get any reward for painting their models.

Shouldn't the reward be having kick-ass models you painted yourself?

Do you really care about 10 points that anyone can get if they spray their models and slap three random colors on there?

 Irkjoe wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
I mean, what you're saying was from page 1. Most of the rest is about the moral implication of forcing other players to follow a single way to enjoy the game aspect of the hobbies, as well as the idea that people don't need a rule to motivate them to paint, nor that they should be punished for not doing the steps in order.

Nobody is forced to do anything; you don't have to paint, I don't have to play your grey army, and you don't have to play me. You just don't want people to get any reward for painting their models.

No, I don't want people to get an arbitrary in game reward for painting their models. For a very long list of reasons I don't feel the need to repeat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


here here!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
10 pages in one day. This topic isn't divisive at all!

Its the live wire of 40k - social interaction.

I don't see myself ever having a problem because either I'm playing with friends, in which case who wins really doesn't matter, so winning cos "haha I've got painted models" can just be laughed off. Or its a tournament where there will be rules.

So to my mind the whole thing comes across as
*Western Whistle Plays*
"You there. I challenge you to the greatest and most manly test there is. That's right, 40k."
*3 hours later*
"Ha! I win by 5 points. Read'em and weep pal."
"Ah, you think you've won? You didn't paint those 10 grots there. Whereas my army is fully painted. So in fact I win by 5 points. Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHAHA!"
"No. No. I've lost.. a game of 40k? My pride. My ego. My identity. How will I go on..."