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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I've decided to get back into painting and thought I might as well try to get back into playing again now that I've got a couple of mates in the hobby too. Been reading through almost every Codex and watching a ton of battle reports, and main rule changes aside which I don't really have an issue with, the game seems completely dominated by an absurd amount of re-rolls in every phase.

I haven't had first-hand experience yet, but doesn't this completely detract from the tension of rolling dice in crucial moments when so much stuff gets re-rolled and you've got CP re-rolls to fall back on? When I stopped playing in 5th, it was such a comparitive rarity, with stuff like the twin-linked rule and Eldar doom/guide/fortune being the most common ways to get them. The big blobby auras of re-rolls are an odd design choice.

Stratagem use seems a bit weird to me too. I don't mind the idea that much, but it seems like there's just so many and it feels like the emphasis is more on playing some OP stratagem card at the right time, rather than on the models and their own rules/statlines themselves. Back when I used to play I had a pretty complete knowledge of rules and statlines for almost every Codex, but there's no way I'm going to remember all the "gotcha, your unit/my unit is terrible/awesome this turn" stratagem tricks nowadays.

Finally it seems from Youtube battle reports I've watched, that stuff dies insanely quickly now thanks to powercreep + rerolls + stratagems. Obviously there were some offenders back in 5th ed. too, but most games still felt like there were a decent amount of units left by turn 4, whereas in the videos I've watched, one or both armies have almost nothing left by this time and tabling seems very common.
--------------------

Is this how is actually plays out in-game? I was really looking forward to getting back onto the table playing again, but after watching some battle reports, I've lost a bit of the enthusiasm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 17:27:09


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Some of this issue is caused by GW having pulled a "Eh, feth it, it's the end of the edition let's puke a gak ton of untested trash into the game" and then unlike with 7th they didn't have the decency to quietly delete it going into 9th. So we're still dealing with most of the horsegak from marine 2.5dex and all of it from Psychic Awakening.

They're slowly dialing back the absurdity of the rerolls and stratagems in the new codexes - limiting the worst offenders of double-attack stratagems, double-shoot stratagems, and 100pt characters being able to grant their rerolls to everything up to and including 500+ point superheavies.

But unfortunately they're doing it "GWfully" meaning you pay for that gak and it goes one faction at a time. Everyone but loyalist marines, DG, and Necrons are just sitting around on their hands waiting for a 'dex or abusing the absolutely busted trash rules GW shoveled into the game with psychic awakening if they got them.

Older editions tended to limit the crazy abilities to just a unit joined by various characters, which led to the game being dominated by crazy deathstar units. Now, it's just kind of been spread out to aura-ball armies.

I would say tabling is much more common in 9th than in the other older editions I've played. Somewhat less common than in late 8th, but still ridiculously common.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Ah ok, I'm glad to hear they're (slowly) trying to pull the game away from re-roll/strat spam rather than keep going even deeper into that hole!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yea - re-rolls are definitely reduced and that will only increase with more books.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
I would say tabling is much more common in 9th than in the other older editions I've played. Somewhat less common than in late 8th, but still ridiculously common.


I have the opposite experience, but I guess it depends on who or what you get to play these days.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/18 17:25:43


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





This does seem to be the consensus.

RE: Lethality:

Some (though not all) of the issue is that right now, 7 factions have 9th ed dexes (5 of which are marines) and the rest of the factions don't. Some of those books that don't have 9th ed dexes are playing with older stat lines.

8th ed cover rules were terrible, and while 9th ed's cover rules are better, they aren't quite what everyone wanted.

Personally, I use a TON of LoS blocking scenery; it's why I make my own. Every GW terrain is full of holes, so it provides bonuses to saves, but it doesn't block LoS.

RE: Rerolls:

Yeah... Lots of those. I never use CP for rerolls, because there are enough auras that I shouldn't have to- and that's one of the reasons why I don't mind auras. Almost anything you can do with a command point is more interesting than a reroll.

RE: Strats

Some people hate them, some people love'em. You are correct that they are a game changer though, and they take a lot of getting used to. I tend to think of strats in the same way I think of data sheet rules; I write out the strats I like the most on index cards and I think about which one fits which unit the best and from that point on, it essentially IS a data sheet rule.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I like Strats, well the idea of them anyway. The issue becomes a few things:
1. Some of them are just straight up offensive and defensive buffs with exactly zero effort
2. Some of them scale hella weird
3. Some of them make little sense in the context of an army where only one unit is doing it....because.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




PenitentJake wrote:
7 factions have 9th ed dexes (5 of which are marines)


Oh man, this sort of lopsided SM favouritism is still the norm then? :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 17:35:06


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Some of them are just straight up offensive and defensive buffs with exactly zero effort


Agreed, but then it becomes a resource management thing.

2. Some of them scale hella weird


Scaling has gotten a bit better.

3. Some of them make little sense in the context of an army where only one unit is doing it....because.


Right, a lot of people would prefer some of these things to be wargear. I think its a valid point, but it has the potential effect of either being an auto-take or completely worthless. A stratagem allows a little more flex in how it gets implemented.

Take SMOKESCREEN. Vehicles used to be able to pop smoke at the cost of shooting. Almost no one ever did this, because they likely wanted to shoot instead. Now SMOKESCREEN allows them to shoot and also benefit at a cost, but not everyone can do it at the same time. I really prefer this setup than the old one.

   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

nemesis464 wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
7 factions have 9th ed dexes (5 of which are marines)


Oh man, this sort of lopsided SM favouritism is still the norm then? :(

It's about four times as bad

I don't like strategems either.
Some of them do way too much, albeit GW has toned it down slightly.
But also they've been used to reduce a lot of special rules to be strategems. Smoke launchers? Now a strategem for example.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 kirotheavenger wrote:
Smoke launchers? Now a strategem for example.


That seems weird to me. I'd rather hthe complexity of the rules made up in the wargear and unit entry, rather than on stratagem cards.
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

My own frame is playing 40K between 2nd Ed and 6th Ed inclusive, returning for 8th Ed. Re-rolls have been reigned-in somewhat for 9th Edition. The Core mechanic has been used, along with the very welcome restricting of what you could use a re-roll for. So the truly dramatic/episodic stuff like vehicles Exploding cannot be re-rolled.

Stratagems have been expanded, and I think they are here for a while. I quite enjoy them. Others clearly do not. While they last into 10th Edition? I guess it will depend how successful 9th Edition turns out to be.

I find tablings less common in 9th Edition compared to 8th Edition. Once again, people's mileage may vary. If you have five pieces of Obscuring Terrain placed in a manner suggested by the MRB then you cut down on 1st Turn lethality. In my last tourney at 1000 points (which is a dangerous level), over four games I had one "tabling" and two "near mutual tablings." The near-mutual tablings were fun, tightly contested matches then went the whole 5 turns. We both still had models left on the board - nothing wrong with that from my perspective.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

nemesis464 wrote:
Back when I used to play I had a pretty complete knowledge of rules and statlines for almost every Codex, but there's no way I'm going to remember all the "gotcha, your unit/my unit is terrible/awesome this turn" stratagem tricks nowadays.


This is my main dislike with Stratagems, but fortunately I think it's the only one of your complaints that isn't being addressed in some way in 9th- lethality is being reduced somewhat as more armies pick up damage reduction and things like shoot-twice abilities go away, and re-rolls are getting toned down as well. For what it's worth the Stratagem list is also being culled as new codices take the 'best of' the old codices and Psychic Awakening and ditch a bunch of the cruft. They're also making an attempt to distinguish Stratagems by type, which makes them a bit easier to keep track of.

That said, beyond the creep of Stratagems replacing things that really ought to be wargear (smokescreens, meltabombs), I miss being able to look at a unit's stats and being able to gauge its capabilities. Now you need to check what stratagems are relevant to it, what subfaction traits might amp it up, what buff abilities elsewhere in the codex apply. Having a complete understanding of all the armies isn't really practical and you'll probably get blindsided by stratagems every now and then.

Not sure if you've noticed, but probably the biggest difference I see compared to old editions is mobility. The table is smaller, nothing has to forgo shooting if it moves its full speed, anything can purchase outflank, and deep strike is 100% reliable in both positioning and timing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/18 18:11:02


   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

nemesis464 wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
Smoke launchers? Now a strategem for example.


That seems weird to me. I'd rather hthe complexity of the rules made up in the wargear and unit entry, rather than on stratagem cards.

Instead of having Smoke Launchers on every vehicle, you now have to spend points from a small pool of Command Points to use a stratagem that can be used only once a phase. That requires putting a bit more thought into the decision to use the stratagem than it did when Smoke Launcher were just wargear.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 catbarf wrote:
nemesis464 wrote:
Back when I used to play I had a pretty complete knowledge of rules and statlines for almost every Codex, but there's no way I'm going to remember all the "gotcha, your unit/my unit is terrible/awesome this turn" stratagem tricks nowadays.


This is my main dislike with Stratagems, but fortunately I think it's the only one of your complaints that isn't being addressed in some way in 9th- lethality is being reduced somewhat as more armies pick up damage reduction and things like shoot-twice abilities go away, and re-rolls are getting toned down as well. For what it's worth the Stratagem list is also being culled as new codices take the 'best of' the old codices and Psychic Awakening and ditch a bunch of the cruft. They're also making an attempt to distinguish Stratagems by type, which makes them a bit easier to keep track of.

That said, beyond the creep of Stratagems replacing things that really ought to be wargear (smokescreens, meltabombs), I miss being able to look at a unit's stats and being able to gauge its capabilities. Now you need to check what stratagems are relevant to it, what subfaction traits might amp it up, what buff abilities elsewhere in the codex apply. Having a complete understanding of all the armies isn't really practical and you'll probably get blindsided by stratagems every now and then.

Not sure if you've noticed, but probably the biggest difference I see compared to old editions is mobility. The table is smaller, nothing has to forgo shooting if it moves its full speed, anything can purchase outflank, and deep strike is 100% reliable in both positioning and timing.


I'm almost done rebooting my tool to help with understanding an opponent's army.

This is just the data model. The goal will be to let someone pick a unit, keyword, etc and find out what the unit can take for relics or traits, what they benefit from, in what phase the ability has to be activated, etc.

Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. Some of them are just straight up offensive and defensive buffs with exactly zero effort


Agreed, but then it becomes a resource management thing.

2. Some of them scale hella weird


Scaling has gotten a bit better.

3. Some of them make little sense in the context of an army where only one unit is doing it....because.


Right, a lot of people would prefer some of these things to be wargear. I think its a valid point, but it has the potential effect of either being an auto-take or completely worthless. A stratagem allows a little more flex in how it gets implemented.

Take SMOKESCREEN. Vehicles used to be able to pop smoke at the cost of shooting. Almost no one ever did this, because they likely wanted to shoot instead. Now SMOKESCREEN allows them to shoot and also benefit at a cost, but not everyone can do it at the same time. I really prefer this setup than the old one.


Honestly there's many thay bug me for the third one, but the biggest offender to me was True Grit for Space Wolves. Just one squad, whether it was 5 dudes or 10 dudes, somehow remembered they can shoot in melee while all the other dudes of the same type of squad are doing nothing. It's just so...weird.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 kirotheavenger wrote:


I don't like strategems either.
Some of them do way too much, albeit GW has toned it down slightly.
But also they've been used to reduce a lot of special rules to be strategems. Smoke launchers? Now a strategem for example.


Okey lets imagine this. It is corona times, having good sells is important GW starts the edition with 7 books, out of which 5 are some sort of xeno armies, and the rest is one SM codex and one DG codex. All the BA, SW, DW etc marines are left skeleton rules. Now the minority of all players are having fun with their xeno books, while the majority of all players that are marines not so much. You think it would be wise for GW to do something like that? And we talking about it here, just after the goon report shown that marines aren't even the top armies in the game right now, and that a ton of non marines armies are doing well or very well. And that is without 9th books.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

They displayed the ability to issue Indexes to help factions get by early edition issues.

Unfortunately they only used it on their favourite sons to offset a several month wait instead of the books waiting far longer.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Karol wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:


I don't like strategems either.
Some of them do way too much, albeit GW has toned it down slightly.
But also they've been used to reduce a lot of special rules to be strategems. Smoke launchers? Now a strategem for example.


Okey lets imagine this. It is corona times, having good sells is important GW starts the edition with 7 books, out of which 5 are some sort of xeno armies, and the rest is one SM codex and one DG codex. All the BA, SW, DW etc marines are left skeleton rules. Now the minority of all players are having fun with their xeno books, while the majority of all players that are marines not so much. You think it would be wise for GW to do something like that? And we talking about it here, just after the goon report shown that marines aren't even the top armies in the game right now, and that a ton of non marines armies are doing well or very well. And that is without 9th books.


BA, SW and DW were playable before getting their supplements.... if the energy used for these supplements had been given to Chaos or Xenos or even just another non-marine Imperium army, it wouldve been a better move for the players.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





That's a bit unfair.

Those supplements were pushed out mainly because BA, DA and SW had LOST their models.

There were literally no rules available anymore, the 9th edition SM codex invalidates the previous SM codici.

There were no rules for Thunderwolf cavalry, Sanguinary guard, DW Knights... snowflake marines had lost about half of their datasheets and about 100% of what defined them.
It is quite obvious that you can't leave a faction hanging like that while waiting for the codex to come out.

It would be an unacceptable treatment even by xenos standards.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Honestly there's many thay bug me for the third one, but the biggest offender to me was True Grit for Space Wolves. Just one squad, whether it was 5 dudes or 10 dudes, somehow remembered they can shoot in melee while all the other dudes of the same type of squad are doing nothing. It's just so...weird.


You may be happy to learn that the new book killed that one dead.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






As a veteran of 40K since 2nd edition, I find the current state of the game nearly impenetrable. Or maybe I'm just getting older and my patience for navigating minute is wearing thin.

But the amount modifiers and die-rolls applied by way of auras, stratagems, relics, faction traits, etc, in combination with the same special rule being called something different on each unit/army, leads to an incredibly fiddly situation. Much less is baked into a unit's stat line or unique special rules (which are comparatively easy to parse), and far more is handled by external elements (stratagems, etc.). The game is vastly more complex and clunky now, as you have to nerd-out hard to think through how all these disconnected elements intersect and interact.

The consequence is that the game feels even more about puzzling through this dizzying array of modifiers/re-rolls/special-rules to build an army list than it ever has been. Meanwhile, the core gameplay rules have been dumbed down and missions homogenized to the point that one wonders, cynically, why we are even playing a miniature game at all.

Thank the emperor for Old Hammer.


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/02/18 20:37:21


Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Mezmorki wrote:
But the amount modifiers and die-rolls applied by way of auras, stratagems, relics, faction traits, etc, in combination with the same special rule being called something different on each unit/army, leads to an incredibly fiddly situation. Much less is baked into a unit's stat line or unique special rules (which are comparatively easy to parse), and far more is handled by external elements (stratagems, etc.).


I agree with you there.

I want my units to be the ones that feel uniquely special, not the ever-increasing horde of stratagem cards and power-ups being the deciding factor.

   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





 Mezmorki wrote:
As a veteran of 40K since 2nd edition, I find the current state of the game nearly impenetrable. Or maybe I'm just getting older and my patience for navigating minute is wearing thin.

But the amount modifiers and die-rolls applied by way of auras, stratagems, relics, faction traits, etc, in combination with the same special rule being called something different on each unit/army, leads to an incredibly fiddly situation. Much less is baked into a unit's stat line or unique special rules (which are comparatively easy to parse), and far more is handled by external elements (stratagems, etc.). The game is vastly more complex and clunky now, as you have to nerd-out hard to think through how all these disconnected elements intersect and interact.

The consequence is that the game feels even more about puzzling through this dizzying array of modifiers/re-rolls/special-rules to build an army list than it ever has been. Meanwhile, the core gameplay rules have been dumbed down and missions homogenized to the point that one wonders, cynically, why we are even playing a miniature game at all.

Thank the emperor for Old Hammer.


I agree with you 100%.

To the OP, why not ask your mates to stick with 5th edition or another earlier edition you all may prefer? It will cost a lot less money in the long run and you won't have to ride the never-ending rollercoaster of GW's rules updates. If you want to use newer models not available back then, it is not that difficult too convert the stats, abilities and points into old rulesets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 22:02:10


 
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






On topic @ OP:

Yeah man preper to eat the gotcha samich from time to time and also stuff just get deleted if a some unit juiced to the gills with strats looks at it...
Welcome to modern 40k.

Some units were able to throw out like 60+ dice all reroll able.. ZzzzzZZZ....
In one of their marketing / blah blah article GW even said that "Great tactical acumen of this unit is naturally represented by all of the rerolls..."
Some people at GW seem to be semi self aware but mostly its a crapshow...


Spoletta wrote:
That's a bit unfair.

Those supplements were pushed out mainly because BA, DA and SW had LOST their models.

There were literally no rules available anymore, the 9th edition SM codex invalidates the previous SM codici.

There were no rules for Thunderwolf cavalry, Sanguinary guard, DW Knights... snowflake marines had lost about half of their datasheets and about 100% of what defined them.
It is quite obvious that you can't leave a faction hanging like that while waiting for the codex to come out.

It would be an unacceptable treatment even by xenos standards.


Lets all take a moment of silence for how poorly space marines have been treated and all the units they lost.
*bugle plays in the background as silence falls*

Your posts are the funniest cringe friend.
Never change.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 22:27:51


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Argive wrote:
On topic @ OP:

Yeah man preper to eat the gotcha samich from time to time and also stuff just get deleted if a some unit juiced to the gills with strats looks at it...
Welcome to modern 40k.

Some units were able to throw out like 60+ dice all reroll able.. ZzzzzZZZ....
In one of their marketing / blah blah article GW even said that "Great tactical acumen of this unit is naturally represented by all of the rerolls..."
Some people at GW seem to be semi self aware but mostly its a crapshow...


Spoletta wrote:
That's a bit unfair.

Those supplements were pushed out mainly because BA, DA and SW had LOST their models.

There were literally no rules available anymore, the 9th edition SM codex invalidates the previous SM codici.

There were no rules for Thunderwolf cavalry, Sanguinary guard, DW Knights... snowflake marines had lost about half of their datasheets and about 100% of what defined them.
It is quite obvious that you can't leave a faction hanging like that while waiting for the codex to come out.

It would be an unacceptable treatment even by xenos standards.


Lets all take a moment of silence for how poorly space marines have been treated and all the units they lost.
*bugle plays in the background as silence falls*

Your posts are the funniest cringe friend.
Never change.


Ahh, the sweet aroma of black knights who think that losing dozens of datasheets is fine.

Dakka wouldn't be the same without people like you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 22:39:13


 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Dozens?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Hacking Interventor





I
Spoletta wrote:
That's a bit unfair.

Those supplements were pushed out mainly because BA, DA and SW had LOST their models.

There were literally no rules available anymore, the 9th edition SM codex invalidates the previous SM codici.

There were no rules for Thunderwolf cavalry, Sanguinary guard, DW Knights... snowflake marines had lost about half of their datasheets and about 100% of what defined them.
It is quite obvious that you can't leave a faction hanging like that while waiting for the codex to come out.

It would be an unacceptable treatment even by xenos standards.


Like, what, their unique units might have had to struggle along with one less wound for two or three months?

It is absolutely fair. A few FAQs would have been all that were required for Snowflake chapters to make those models usable; even without statline updates, they wouldn't in any position that isn't being occupied by several other armies now - which is apparently considered acceptable treatment if you're not playing Space Marines.

Yeah, I've banged this drum before, but to quote Benjamin "Yahtzee" Croshaw: "If you're still showing symptoms, then keep taking your medicine, mother******."

It kind of sticks in my throat; those armies got full indexes, some of which had completely new rules that presumably took time and effort, and that were only going to be needed for a few months, while other armies may languish for years without updates that make them function playably (Tau) or with farcical rules disparities (Chaos Marines having 1 wound) or not having weapons updated to new standards(Eldar and Tau meltas, TS warpflamers). Combine that with the excruciating 7-month-long Marine commercial 9th edition has been (They're still releasing Marine units!) and what conclusion can I come to other than that if you're not playing Loyalist Space Marines specifically, GW considers you a second class citizen?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 23:24:28


"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"

-Tex Talks Battletech on GW 
   
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Terrifying Doombull




Which... uh, yeah. Happened.

There totally were Day 1 FAQs for the snowflake chapters to get their special treatment for the couple weeks they had to 'suffer.'
They lost nothing for any amount of time.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

The product release schedule is vastly different now than late 5th edition (I assume that is when you stopped playing). Back then, it was much easier, and cheaper, to have all the material and keep up to date on all the armies. Content now comes out much faster and with multiple books available to build a single army, the number of in game variables dramatically increased as opposed to 5th edition.

I can not keep up with all the other armies' rules, but I've learned to ask my opponent a lot more questions during the game. I don't want them to provide me their strategies, but I will ask questions such as ways to increase movement of units, things that can improve stats and so forth. One of the benefits is that it actually gives my opponent more open dialogue during the game when it used to be fairly inactive for the other player. I play on a weekly basis, but that is not nearly enough to keep up with all the material. I found if I don't ask, the likelihood of that "gotcha" moment is much higher and tended to break the backbone of an army fast. I also offer up the information to my opponents as well. My games have become much more interesting, enjoyable, and challenging for myself and my opponent. I've yet to encounter a person not willing to provide the information I've asked for.

Terrain rules are better than in several past editions. The shooting is deadly and requires larger LOS blocking terrain. However, the concept of deadly shooting is not new. If I recall correctly, an IG build in either 4th or 5th edition was nicknamed "Leafblower" as it pretty much removed armies from shooting. Iron Warriors with Basilisks and Obliterators had a similar reputation. NOVA back in 5th edition developed terrain layouts to mitigate these kinds of issues as well as other tourney venues. Terrain has been very important in 40K and games continue to end quickly by lack of a proper terrain layout. "Proper" is subjective so I recommend working that out with your local area for a consensus.

Lastly, enjoy. I find the game much more complex now than in 5th, but each edition has had its positives and negatives. I've played through every edition and find 9th to be a lot of fun to the point of buying, building, and painting a new army.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Totally. Remember how Dark Angels needed a separate entry for Terminators even though there were three types already in the main codex? OH and remember how Blood Angels got two extra variations of the Apothecary? Must be so hard for them.

Oh and don't forget those poor Space Wolves that suffered when they didn't have their Not-Tactical Marine! My heart weeps for the injustice suffered!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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