Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Blood Angels already have a power called Blood Boil, which is fairly self explanatory.
If you roll higher than the target's toughness on 2d6 you inflict d3 mortal wounds.

Flipsiders wrote:Ceramite technically isn't metal, so metalbending wouldn't work.

From the terminology, it would be as bendable as any hard pottery is. I haven't seen anything one way or another on how specialized an earthbender would have to be for specialized work. It is possible they could be flung around like any rock, at the very least.

slade the sniper wrote:So, what would the statline for a metalbender or other benders be?

Statline would be of any skilled human. Metal bending would probably hit like a Marine's grav gun.

 Charistoph wrote:
From the terminology, it would be as bendable as any hard pottery is.

https://news.mit.edu/2013/how-to-make-ceramics-that-bend-without-breaking-0926

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a19300/new-flexible-ceramic-could-make-its-way-into-electronic-devices/

https://newatlas.com/ceramic-nanomaterial-substrate-circuit-flexiramics/42052/

https://www.medicaldesignbriefs.com/component/content/article/mdb/features/rand/17568

Ceramics aren't just hard clay-like materials these days my friend.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
From the terminology, it would be as bendable as any hard pottery is.

https://news.mit.edu/2013/how-to-make-ceramics-that-bend-without-breaking-0926

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a19300/new-flexible-ceramic-could-make-its-way-into-electronic-devices/

https://newatlas.com/ceramic-nanomaterial-substrate-circuit-flexiramics/42052/

https://www.medicaldesignbriefs.com/component/content/article/mdb/features/rand/17568

Ceramics aren't just hard clay-like materials these days my friend.

*Mind explodes*
Pretty sure that this stuff is all tech heresy that should be reported to the inquisition.

 Flipsiders wrote:
Ceramite technically isn't metal, so metalbending wouldn't work.

I've always had the impression that ceramite is the ablative outer layer over a metal framework for most 40k things, so a bit of both.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
From the terminology, it would be as bendable as any hard pottery is.

Ceramics aren't just hard clay-like materials these days my friend.

They are if they want to deflect incoming weapons without injuring the flesh underneath. Keep in mind that applies not just to Astartes to but to regular humans like Sororitas and Inquisitors.

And it's not like soft ceramics would make them less easy to control. It was more a reference to how easy it would be to crush the people within them like a metalbender would a Bretonnian knight.

Whilst I’m aware dimly of it as a thing, I know nothing about Avatar, and what the bending powers do.

I’ve gathered enough that it’s some form of control over a specific element - but not what, of any, limitations might exist?

For instance, someone mentioned blood-bending. That sounds nasty, and I assume it’s controlling someone’s blood as it’s a liquid, and possibly a very fast exsanguination.

Does that take time? As in, would an Astartes have much of a chance to Nope them with a tactical bolt round to the general body area?

Short and concise if you could!

 Charistoph wrote:
They are if they want to deflect incoming weapons without injuring the flesh underneath.

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/this-ultra-thin-material-can-stop-bullets-by-hardening-like-a-diamond

Untrue. We already have prototype materials that are flexible until they sustain a high-energy impact.

From what I recall of watching the show in my youth, it involves a degree of hand waving and such.
If the marine enters the fight knowing they're an enemy, I can easily imagine them taking them out first.
But from an ambush, the marine may fail to notice the casting in time or fail to distinguish it from a general crowd.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whilst I’m aware dimly of it as a thing, I know nothing about Avatar, and what the bending powers do.

I’ve gathered enough that it’s some form of control over a specific element - but not what, of any, limitations might exist?

For instance, someone mentioned blood-bending. That sounds nasty, and I assume it’s controlling someone’s blood as it’s a liquid, and possibly a very fast exsanguination.

Does that take time? As in, would an Astartes have much of a chance to Nope them with a tactical bolt round to the general body area?

Short and concise if you could!

In general, the Marine would have the advantage. Benders don't wear much armor, and are just humans in durability. So one good bolter shot would do them in-or even a bad one, honestly. Bolters are nasty.

We never see a Water Bender remove blood from a body-they're from a kid show, so that'd be a touch brutal for it! But they do have control over the opponent's body.

I think a Water or Earth Bender, if they got the drop on a Marine and knew what they were facing, could win. An Air Bender or Fire Bender... Not really.

If Fire Bender includes any form of heat, could send the Power Armour’s power source overheating to the point of explosion?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If Fire Bender includes any form of heat, could send the Power Armour’s power source overheating to the point of explosion?

In theory? Probably.

In practice? Probably not. I'm sure a Fire Bender with sufficient training, time, and access to the technology could figure out how to overheat it, but even then, I doubt it'd be something you could reliably do in a fight, with a giant power-armored Marine trying to cave your skull in or blow you to bits.

The main issue is durability-a Bender is human. One good hit from ANYTHING the Astartes can do will end the fight, whereas the Bender will have to get many good hits to incapacitate or kill a Marine.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Whilst I’m aware dimly of it as a thing, I know nothing about Avatar, and what the bending powers do.

I’ve gathered enough that it’s some form of control over a specific element - but not what, of any, limitations might exist?

For instance, someone mentioned blood-bending. That sounds nasty, and I assume it’s controlling someone’s blood as it’s a liquid, and possibly a very fast exsanguination.

Does that take time? As in, would an Astartes have much of a chance to Nope them with a tactical bolt round to the general body area?

Short and concise if you could!

A lot depends on the skill of the bender, and some specialties can even include a hereditary bent to it. Not all earth benders can bend metal, but can bend lava. While they can all throw rocks, only a few toss boulders as if they were fist-sized.

As for how quickly it can be done, it depends on the form and what is being attempted to be bent. Air and Water tend to take the most movement, but it is still about as quick as any martial art form. We've seen rock throwing as quick as a stamp on the ground. Blood control and ice control was quick as the ability to for the bender to focus on the skill. Combustion bending (fire and air mix) is as quick as a breath and distance to travel. Lightning tends to take a bit more work to charge up, but is a rarer skill.

We haven't seen exsanguination from a water bender, but we have seen them pretty much pull all the water out of a field of flowers and trees, and even use their own sweat. It could be harder because kid's show, but, maybe?

Canadian 5th wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
They are if they want to deflect incoming weapons without injuring the flesh underneath.

Untrue. We already have prototype materials that are flexible until they sustain a high-energy impact.

At which point they become rigid . Nor does this discount what I said about earth benders handling softer earth.

JNAProductions wrote:In general, the Marine would have the advantage. Benders don't wear much armor, and are just humans in durability. So one good bolter shot would do them in-or even a bad one, honestly. Bolters are nasty.

We never see a Water Bender remove blood from a body-they're from a kid show, so that'd be a touch brutal for it! But they do have control over the opponent's body.

I think a Water or Earth Bender, if they got the drop on a Marine and knew what they were facing, could win. An Air Bender or Fire Bender... Not really.

Mostly agreed, but don't discount the air or fire bender. If the Marine isn't wearing their helmet, or if it isn't environmentally sealed, the air bender can just take the air away (but most wouldn't, so would be tossed). It is possible the air bender could redirect any bolter rounds with high winds, if they were quick and strong (like Avatar state + Ultra Instinct level). Depending on the will and skill of the fire bender, they can easily produce a flame hotter than a Heavy Flamer or lightning bolts. Just as interesting if they are a lava or combustion bender, too. Of course, like the air bender, if they are fast enough they could alter the flame of bolter rounds or even pre-detonate them (but that would be like Avatar state + Ultra Instinct level skill like the air bender).

For bloodbending, would simply removing the water content from blood be quick to do, or is the separation considered (in canon) a step above in terms of skill?

I would go watch it myself, but whilst I’ve nothing against the medium or those who enjoy it, there’s just something about Anime type stuff which stops me enjoying it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For bloodbending, would simply removing the water content from blood be quick to do, or is the separation considered (in canon) a step above in terms of skill?

I would go watch it myself, but whilst I’ve nothing against the medium or those who enjoy it, there’s just something about Anime type stuff which stops me enjoying it.

Never happened, so don't know. Taking the water out of the flowers and trees was done with the wave of a hand from an extremely experienced bender who had been using blood bending to kidnap people at night to do it. For her it also required a full moon to control the blood (moon helps control the tide and so is considered the first water bender). We've seen one other blood bender not need the moon, but also take away other people's bending by basically forcing the blood away from a certain part of the brain (I think, it could have been spirit bending, but that's not how it came across as Korra was disjointed compared to the original).

Going to say that maybe a Predator (Yautja) would be a counts as Sslyth...

Kabalite armor is pretty light with a 5+
The random blades, spears, etc count as a close combat weapon
The dart shooters can be the shard pistol/rifle
give them some painful weapons from the DE list like nets.
The plasma caster could count as a dark lance or blasters.

So, that is my idea to count Predators as Sslyth. Their ridiculously low Ld just means that they don't really do stand up fights, they do ambushes.

-STS

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
They are if they want to deflect incoming weapons without injuring the flesh underneath.

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/this-ultra-thin-material-can-stop-bullets-by-hardening-like-a-diamond

Untrue. We already have prototype materials that are flexible until they sustain a high-energy impact.

This is how Eldar mesh armour is described, flexible until struck.

Honestly, i think "the thing" from "Who goes there?" and the John Carpenter movie would be the end of the imperium. Maybe orks, and eldar too, plus the tau. Now the nids, I dunno there...

You think genestealers are bad? Ha! Wait'll you have your precious spess muhreens turned into Things and your hiveworld citizens are being converted in huge numbers within a few hours. Oh and they can shapechange, parts of them can survive if blown apart, etc.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Honestly, i think "the thing" from "Who goes there?" and the John Carpenter movie would be the end of the imperium. Maybe orks, and eldar too, plus the tau. Now the nids, I dunno there...

You think genestealers are bad? Ha! Wait'll you have your precious spess muhreens turned into Things and your hiveworld citizens are being converted in huge numbers within a few hours. Oh and they can shapechange, parts of them can survive if blown apart, etc.

The Imperium already has a protocol they are ready to meet out for even lesser infestations: Exterminatus. Hard to survive when you're sensitive to heat the surface is turned in to lava. And even Astartes would be executed on suspicion of taint for leaving the planet.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For bloodbending, would simply removing the water content from blood be quick to do, or is the separation considered (in canon) a step above in terms of skill?

I would go watch it myself, but whilst I’ve nothing against the medium or those who enjoy it, there’s just something about Anime type stuff which stops me enjoying it.

Never happened, so don't know. Taking the water out of the flowers and trees was done with the wave of a hand from an extremely experienced bender who had been using blood bending to kidnap people at night to do it. For her it also required a full moon to control the blood (moon helps control the tide and so is considered the first water bender). We've seen one other blood bender not need the moon, but also take away other people's bending by basically forcing the blood away from a certain part of the brain (I think, it could have been spirit bending, but that's not how it came across as Korra was disjointed compared to the original).

I suppose one use would be hydraulic shock, forcing the blood the wrong way round the system.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Honestly, i think "the thing" from "Who goes there?" and the John Carpenter movie would be the end of the imperium. Maybe orks, and eldar too, plus the tau. Now the nids, I dunno there...

You think genestealers are bad? Ha! Wait'll you have your precious spess muhreens turned into Things and your hiveworld citizens are being converted in huge numbers within a few hours. Oh and they can shapechange, parts of them can survive if blown apart, etc.

The Imperium already has a protocol they are ready to meet out for even lesser infestations: Exterminatus. Hard to survive when you're sensitive to heat the surface is turned in to lava. And even Astartes would be executed on suspicion of taint for leaving the planet.

The thing turns people into itself while maintaining their image and personality perfectly, and all it takes is about an hour alone with someone, plus the thing is highly intelligent. It was building some sort of flying saucer out of junk it scavenged from the camp. It might take over a planet without the imperium even khowing it was taken over, slip a few of itselves onto every ship that come by, spread to a dozen worlds without a whiff of problem.

Now sure, there are issues: Can a thing become a navigator? Can a thing function as a navigator if it takes one over? Plus i suppose some industrial accident might expose a thing, like a guy gets blown to bits in an accident and the pieces start running around to escape. But on the whole I'm not sure the imperium could stop the thing taking over, it's too adaptable and intelligent. I don;t know if a psyker could spot one i admit.

My psuedo-head canon is that the monster(s) from the Thing is a Slaugth...the main baddies from the Rangdan Xenocides.

There is a great short story from the Thing's point of view by Peter Watts.

-STS

slade the sniper wrote:
My psuedo-head canon is that the monster(s) from the Thing is a Slaugth...the main baddies from the Rangdan Xenocides.

There is a great short story from the Thing's point of view by Peter Watts.

-STS

Oh ghawd I'm not the only person to read it?! Hallalujah!

Cronch wrote:
I personally see Marines being equivalent to a very upgunned and uparmored Krogan.

Space Marine, meet Wrex. He has the same number of backup organs as you do, a backup central nervous system, he regenerates as fast as you do, he has armour with built in shields and can create biotic barriers to deflect fire, he also has natural armour, he can fire a shotgun which breaks a humans arm from the recoil with one hand and he can fling you around like a ragdoll with his mind. Oh, and his testicles work and his species can lay 1000 eggs per female per year.

Not much familiar with Avatar (other than the movie .... ), but couldn't an Earthbender just drop a boulder on the marine (or beat him with "bent" rocks? Create an earth wall to keep the marine from getting into melee?

Matt Swain wrote:The thing turns people into itself while maintaining their image and personality perfectly, and all it takes is about an hour alone with someone, plus the thing is highly intelligent. It was building some sort of flying saucer out of junk it scavenged from the camp. It might take over a planet without the imperium even khowing it was taken over, slip a few of itselves onto every ship that come by, spread to a dozen worlds without a whiff of problem.

Now sure, there are issues: Can a thing become a navigator? Can a thing function as a navigator if it takes one over? Plus i suppose some industrial accident might expose a thing, like a guy gets blown to bits in an accident and the pieces start running around to escape. But on the whole I'm not sure the imperium could stop the thing taking over, it's too adaptable and intelligent. I don;t know if a psyker could spot one i admit.

A lot depends on if it was identified, of course. If an Inquisitor got an idea that one was on planet, though, the survival of anything suspected to be harboring it would likely be destroyed quickly and with little hesitancy compared to say an Antarctic research team or the crew of the Normandy (for a side ways example).

A Town Called Malus wrote:Space Marine, meet Wrex. He has the same number of backup organs as you do, a backup central nervous system, he regenerates as fast as you do, he has armour with built in shields and can create biotic barriers to deflect fire, he also has natural armour, he can fire a shotgun which breaks a humans arm from the recoil with one hand and he can fling you around like a ragdoll with his mind. Oh, and his testicles work and his species can lay 1000 eggs per female per year.

Well, depending on which ending you have, Wrex may be too worn out or the Genophage was never cured.

Stormonu wrote:Not much familiar with Avatar (other than the movie .... ), but couldn't an Earthbender just drop a boulder on the marine (or beat him with "bent" rocks? Create an earth wall to keep the marine from getting into melee?

Possible. King Bumi (quite possibly one of the most powerful earth benders in the show without Avatar assistance) tossed some "small" pillars in to the face of a giant metal statue and they planted quite deeply in to it, and then he basically tilted a statue over that an Astartes in anything smaller than a Dreadnought wouldn't have been able to budge alone. (The event starts at about 0:40 Bumi's link and runs for about a minute.)

Of course, the average earth bender isn't nearly so strong, but most decently trained ones could toss a boulder capable of crushing an unarmored Marine. A Marine's armor might help him survive depending on his own reactions. I can't remember how well they'd survive an avalanche.

 Matt Swain wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Honestly, i think "the thing" from "Who goes there?" and the John Carpenter movie would be the end of the imperium. Maybe orks, and eldar too, plus the tau. Now the nids, I dunno there...

You think genestealers are bad? Ha! Wait'll you have your precious spess muhreens turned into Things and your hiveworld citizens are being converted in huge numbers within a few hours. Oh and they can shapechange, parts of them can survive if blown apart, etc.

The Imperium already has a protocol they are ready to meet out for even lesser infestations: Exterminatus. Hard to survive when you're sensitive to heat the surface is turned in to lava. And even Astartes would be executed on suspicion of taint for leaving the planet.

The thing turns people into itself while maintaining their image and personality perfectly, and all it takes is about an hour alone with someone, plus the thing is highly intelligent. It was building some sort of flying saucer out of junk it scavenged from the camp. It might take over a planet without the imperium even khowing it was taken over, slip a few of itselves onto every ship that come by, spread to a dozen worlds without a whiff of problem.

Now sure, there are issues: Can a thing become a navigator? Can a thing function as a navigator if it takes one over? Plus i suppose some industrial accident might expose a thing, like a guy gets blown to bits in an accident and the pieces start running around to escape. But on the whole I'm not sure the imperium could stop the thing taking over, it's too adaptable and intelligent. I don;t know if a psyker could spot one i admit.

I think there was a plot point in The Thing (the 2011 prequel anyway) where it doesn't deal well with non-organic implants. Ear rings, tooth fillings, that sort of thing. Basically spitting them out as it takes someone over.
I wonder how well it would deal with the 40k setting where just about everyone seems to be running around with some degree of cybernetic implants. Bionic eyes, limbs, etc.

Damn good points. If people are modified to accept implants maybe it could copy their biomods to accept implants. Would it copy a black carapace or interface with it?

The thing had a starship, one assumes it has a lot of technical knowledge.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Damn good points. If people are modified to accept implants maybe it could copy their biomods to accept implants. Would it copy a black carapace or interface with it?

The thing had a starship, one assumes it has a lot of technical knowledge.

It could have just hijacked a spaceship from somebody else. That would explain why it crashed into a place that seems useless for its behavior.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Damn good points. If people are modified to accept implants maybe it could copy their biomods to accept implants. Would it copy a black carapace or interface with it?

I think it's implied that it has limitations to what it can do with its own biology. If it had the ability to not reject and spit out implants, it would probably do so in order to hide better. They caught out infected people at least twice in the 2011 movie based on that behaviour.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

It could have just hijacked a spaceship from somebody else. That would explain why it crashed into a place that seems useless for its behavior.

In the 1982 movie one of the infected characters was found building a spaceship, so it seems like it has technical knowledge beyond that of the host.