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My unpainted back log of pawns is enough to carry me over until they update knights and rooks.
I've also been dying for a good king mini for a while, it's really awkward to not have it stand out when its the leader of the faction.

ccs wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
[
I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

God help your overly sensitive soul should you ever play Chess....

How i am overly sensitive lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
Some are even 30+ atm, ffs Hawks have rogue trader bits lol

If you're going to whine, at least whine factually - nothing in the Swooping Hawk unit currently for sale is a RT element. Well, the bases might count, but that's beyond a stretch.

Baharroth and the rest of the Phoenix Lords (aside from Jain Zar) are early 2nd edition, I believe, but the Hawks were redone in either 3rd or 4th edition. They seem to show up in 2004 catalogues, at least.

Original Swooping Hawks - current Swooping Hawks

Edit - Copied link was a bit funky.

They were "redone" yes but the wings were almost identical and were already old 20 years ago


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And its not whining i just express the whole bad situation the xeno are in,

DE just got a lelith new model and nothing else

i invested money and 18 years in this hobby, i think i am allowed to say something if my 2 armies had close to 10 releases while i watch all my friends armies get all the love

 InVerno wrote:

ccs wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
[
I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

God help your overly sensitive soul should you ever play Chess....

How i am overly sensitive lol

My toys aren't as new as his....

ccs wrote:


My toys aren't as new as his....

more like :

My toys are old enough to be in College

yeah i really love how these models all look when besides each other on the tabletop, it totally feels like they belong in the same game...

To be fair, the old Eldar models are pretty good.

They could be improved along the same aesthetic, and they DEFINITELY should go to plastic, but they aren't bad-looking.

^I still think Baharroth looks way cooler, tbh.

the design is cool but the execution looks dated compared to the rest. The "flattness" of finecast really makes them clash with modern sculpts.
And i'm not asking for a complete redesign when they go to plastic, they should 100% keep the original style, just modernize it.

And i agree that the design for Baharoth looks the best, its just .... ancient compared to the rest.

Insectum7 wrote:^I still think Baharroth looks way cooler, tbh.

He's one of their best sculpts.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
And i'm not asking for a complete redesign when they go to plastic, they should 100% keep the original style, just modernize it.

IMO what Primaris should have been in models and in fluff. A new mark of armor and a streamlined process of making new marines with a new implant that facilitates the armor. oth containing (!) innovation which is at best frowned upon in the Imperium. They are still space marines, they are still better (if only slightly), and all of the storyline developments still work.

Instead of Primaris XYZitors we could have gotten Primaris Tactical Marines, Primaris Assault Marines, etc. Models are different but the dataslate is the same. Bill Gravis armor as a replacement for terminator armor Cawl has invented that can actually be produced in abundance, and have Gravis Terminators again using the same unit rules for terminators. Don't make all the brand new infantry units (the SM lineup never needed them) and instead make stuff for, ya know, other armies.

This is a problem you say, because customers are less likely to buy new versions of units they already have? Not for Space Marines my good sir/madam, not for Space Marines.

Ah, what could have been.

The phoenix lord models are great... Except for Asurmen and Jain Zar were considered the worst models in their range.

I think personally the old sculpts definitely need a rework its dumb they haven't had one. Especially on the older warp spiders... Even for their time the 2004 models were incredibly stale and just very limited for their kits. Then you have the wave serpents and falcon kit which are the 90s...

They just need a refresh why is it that hard for some people to understand on this thread? It's not like people are saying that they should stop producing space marines, but space marine releases will be every 4 - 5 months as pre-ordained.


Don't feel insulted if Xenos players are like "Can that be us for like... a year? We just want like 6 kits, and we are golden."

Xenos and by extension everyone not space marines are just asking to be apart of the setting, don't feel insulted by that at all. I've read some very angry comments in the last few weeks about how space marines aren't taking over the space... But every tournament every game, a list is built around facing space marines. Because space marines are the sole focus of 40k's tabletop and metagaming. From its narratives, space marines are primary heroes and stories by which we intrepret 40k. Because of this it has become one of our main lenses and has felt like one of our lens to see into 40k. Its become boring and bleak in terms of lore, the once vibrant Reddit I am apart of has started to falter because its just space marines. Thats all there is now. Its all space marine lore now. There is no interesting stories, no more character development its just space marines.

This has led to a 'lore desert'. All we know about is space marines, namely the lead chapters, and its successors. And we get seldom lore on the more interesting parts of 40k. Almost every major engagement is with space marines. Which seems opposite to the inuniverse logic of there not being enough space marines. Its a real interesting paradigm. To the point that space marines have taken over the entire design space of 40k to the point every thing is centralized on that factor.

Space Marines overall have a ton of issues from their theming to their aesthetic, to a whole slew of other problematic elements. I like space marines, but I find they dominate all of 40k to the point that its weird when its not a space marine. Because the authors have no idea how to write anything but an imperial point of view.

Don't tell me they can't write Xenos cause they clearly bloody can! Tarzan, the Infinite's book is one of the best 40k books ever written. Period. Xenos is not 'alien' in the same sense as like completely foreign space bacteria. It is just a new perspective to the 40k universe.

And 40k is the worse for Xenos not being a big part of the narrative other than something for the space marines to fight.

Xenos as they are written boring because the authors don't give a gak about them. From Wild Rider to the Ynnari books having some of the most flat characterization in the entirety of 40k. To Path of the Warrior the only book on the aspect warriors way of life. Its really sad how little we know about the xenos races really at all. You could write a book from the prespective of an Ork, it would be a great release to hum drum of 40k.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

ccs wrote:


My toys aren't as new as his....

more like :

My toys are old enough to be in College

Spoiler:

yeah i really love how these models all look when besides each other on the tabletop, it totally feels like they belong in the same game...

?? I take it that this is some attempt to convince me that that Admech thing is somehow a superior model?

As for them having way different looks/sculpt styles? Good. They should. Ones a clunky steampunk-in-space Martian robot guy & the others a space Elf.
Each army should have design cues & themes within itself & across its faction, but look waay different than non-related units
A

If you're feeling jaded by GW's myopic release schedule, its horrible and constant price increases or its refusal to update sculpts outside of the Imperium, why not join us in 3D print heaven?

The only drawback is if you can only play in GW stores - no one else cares. Or rather, they positively care and are excited to see amazing new models to play against.

Maker's Cult have done incredible lines of Death Korp, a feudal IG regiment, Dark Mechanicum, and are getting a Nids line going atm.

Atlan Forge does amazing mythos-inspired Marines, including Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Minotaurs (although you'll need a good printer to do his super-detailed designs justice imo)

Piper Makes is hitting it out of the park with her Tau. In fact, here's a few pictures of some I've printed and painted recently. Both models together cost about £4.50 of resin.

The times they are a'changin... Now if only people outside could sort out GW's awful rules release scheudule too...

 grouchoben wrote:
If you're feeling jaded by GW's myopic release schedule, its horrible and constant price increases or its refusal to update sculpts outside of the Imperium, why not join us in 3D print heaven?

That's exactly what I did!
Piper's Tau-like models are simply amazing, I've already started printing them. And I already have close to 10k points in GW Tau models...

She's the best right? Great discord, great feedback, seems like a genuinely nice person who's excited to be doing what she's doing. It's another side to 3d printing that I'm only just realising.

I've started a FSE force where only the fire warriors are GW (with Piper shoulders printed at 60%, because I find their oversize a real weakspot in the sculpt) and I'm having such a blast. Next up a pair of riptides! <3

 grouchoben wrote:
If you're feeling jaded by GW's myopic release schedule, its horrible and constant price increases or its refusal to update sculpts outside of the Imperium, why not join us in 3D print heaven?

The only drawback is if you can only play in GW stores - no one else cares. Or rather, they positively care and are excited to see amazing new models to play against.

Maker's Cult have done incredible lines of Death Korp, a feudal IG regiment, Dark Mechanicum, and are getting a Nids line going atm.

Atlan Forge does amazing mythos-inspired Marines, including Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Minotaurs (although you'll need a good printer to do his super-detailed designs justice imo)

Piper Makes is hitting it out of the park with her Tau. In fact, here's a few pictures of some I've printed and painted recently. Both models together cost about £4.50 of resin.

The times they are a'changin... Now if only people outside could sort out GW's awful rules release scheudule too...

Spoiler:

Major problem is, you have units with different style, and for me its a major minus for me
I tryed to buy artel w things or other 3d files, but a the end you have units with competely different style that ruin the whole army aestethic if you ask me

Dont get me wrong, i printed an awesome wraithseer, but the fact is, you have to print all your army from a single artist/company that keeps the style coherent, otherwise it will seems you play with different miniature from different games

I still have to print the Tau-like models I've printed, but I'm pretty confident that once they are painted with the same colour scheme they'll blend in with GW ones just fine.

Yeah it depends on the designer. A lot of the time it works well, but some designers stray away from the GW profiles a lot, and it becomes tricky. Yet to see a designer come up with a decent line of Eldar. When they do I'll be backing them...

ccs wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

ccs wrote:


My toys aren't as new as his....

more like :

My toys are old enough to be in College

Spoiler:

yeah i really love how these models all look when besides each other on the tabletop, it totally feels like they belong in the same game...

?? I take it that this is some attempt to convince me that that Admech thing is somehow a superior model?

As for them having way different looks/sculpt styles? Good. They should. Ones a clunky steampunk-in-space Martian robot guy & the others a space Elf.
Each army should have design cues & themes within itself & across its faction, but look waay different than non-related units
A

Yeah, I definitely agree. the style of one model includes the fact that it's essentially two dimensional, thanks to how sculpting technology worked in 1994 two years after I, a grown-ass man with a beard, degree, house, car, wife and job, was born. Also, the style includes the fact that one model is made from injection molded plastic and the other one from fossilized shaving cream but they should definitely, 100% cost the same amount of money and nobody should feel as though after 26 years that GW should either gak or get off the pot and just decide to buy a vastly cheaper 3d printer that enables them to make as many high definition aspect warriors as they want sculpted by their choice of several highly talented digital artists.

It ain't hard. If you join now and stay thru the next month, you'll supposedly get stl's for all aspects for 10 bucks.

Ghamak's a great sculptor but their releases are all over the shop imo. Not even close to having enough CWE to make me want to dedicate to printing and painting. Also a lot of the units are pretty pinup.

Whereas Piper has riptides, commanders, named characters, crisis suits, broadsides, ghostkeels, etc, with any missing units in the pipeline. I think a lot of printers want to be able to do an army's worth, not a characters or two, and I predict that designers who meet this need will start to proliferate in the next few years.

 grouchoben wrote:
Ghamak's releases are all over the shop. Not even close to having enough CWE to make me want to dedicate to printing and painting. Also a lot of the units are pretty pinup.

Whereas Piper has riptides, commanders, named characters, crisis suits, broadsides, ghostkeels, etc, with any missing units in the pipeline. I think a lot of printers want to be able to do an army's worth, not a characters or two, and I predict that designers who meet this need will start to proliferate in the next few years.

Well yeah, that is what I'm saying, his current patreon release for this month is the first half of the aspect warriors, and his next month is going to be the other half. Supposedly, anyway, so far we've got 4 poses of warp spider, 2 warlocks, and preview images of striking scorpions.

Their models have great detail, but the scale can be jarringly off.

 harlokin wrote:
Their models have great detail, but the scale can be jarringly off.

this is true, though that seems to be a kind of universal thing with 3d printing, you just have to measure your models to make sure the scale matches. Also, he does bounce around factions a lot. I'll probably unsub from him once he gets to a faction I don't want to have more stl's for, i've just had an extremely lucky run of months with some excellent Harlequins, good GSC (wasn't a fan of some of the sculpts, but there were plenty good enough I was cool with having paid 5$), and now 2 straight months of CWE. Also I bought his Eschers, which mesh excellently with the GW escher sculpts and add good variety without getting into *shudder* forgeworld prices.

would i prefer to find something akin to Edge Miniatures for craftworlds? yeah. haven't found it yet, and honestly, 3 poses per aspect with a couple headswaps is enough to get you by. It's as many poses as we have had historically, anyway.

ccs wrote:


?? I take it that this is some attempt to convince me that that Admech thing is somehow a superior model?

As for them having way different looks/sculpt styles? Good. They should. Ones a clunky steampunk-in-space Martian robot guy & the others a space Elf.
Each army should have design cues & themes within itself & across its faction, but look waay different than non-related units
A

From a quality/detail point of view yes.
I still like Baharroth's style more for a drop troop but you can't tell me that both these models look like they belong in the same game? Baharroth is super flat , has weird proportions and is chunky compared to the other models.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

I still like Baharroth's style more for a drop troop but you can't tell me that both these models look like they belong in the same game?

I can and I will . I don't think there needs to be one consistent "style" across all models a company makes as far as these conglomerate sci-fi/fantasy games. It's a lot like reading a comic book. Batman has a current look. But between all the books he appears in there's ??? different artists - all drawing the same thing but different. You might like one artists version of Batman better than another, but you don't say their style doesn't belong in the DC line.... It's the same when I look at 40k models.

ccs wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

I still like Baharroth's style more for a drop troop but you can't tell me that both these models look like they belong in the same game?

I can and I will . I don't think there needs to be one consistent "style" across all models a company makes as far as these conglomerate sci-fi/fantasy games. It's a lot like reading a comic book. Batman has a current look. But between all the books he appears in there's ??? different artists - all drawing the same thing but different. You might like one artists version of Batman better than another, but you don't say their style doesn't belong in the DC line.... It's the same when I look at 40k models.

Do you play/care for Eldar? I think if you poll the audience of Eldar players or potential players, you'd find yourself strongly in the minority in that opinion. They could do a plastic Baharroth that retained a lot of those key characteristics without forcing players to use metal models only available on the GW webstore. For instance, what they did with the Banshees was very much in that vein; true to the old sculpts. I wish they'd added a little more flexibility to those sculpts but that's obviously an issue with any metal/finecast models as well.

I don't know why people are getting flack for saying that the models they would buy for their faction are old.

If GW wants to bother to have these other factions, they should update the model line more than once over a 20+ year span. That seems a reasonable expectation for a miniature company. In that same span of time, we've had, what, 6 or 7 editions of the game?

It's a "Crap or Get Off the Pot" situation. Either squat the models and stop selling them, or update them and let Space Marines wait, god forbid, an extra month or two for their new updates.

As for the 3d printing stuff, there's a few problems.

A. they're not welcome at GW stores, so if you play primarily at a GW store, then 3rd party models aren't an option.

B. The styles can be vastly different.

C. the quality of printers can be vastly different.

D. the scales can be vastly different.

E. Resin 3d printing is brittle and delicate, and filament 3d printing leaves step-lines across the model, which can be a pain for picky painters and modelers.

F. You shouldn't *have* to turn to 3rd party to play a faction with decent and modern models. We should hold GW to a higher standard and they, in turn, shouldn't string their customer base along with 3rd edition models when we know they could do better.

drbored wrote:
As for the 3d printing stuff, there's a few problems.

A. they're not welcome at GW stores, so if you play primarily at a GW store, then 3rd party models aren't an option.

B. The styles can be vastly different.

C. the quality of printers can be vastly different.

D. the scales can be vastly different.

E. Resin 3d printing is brittle and delicate, and filament 3d printing leaves step-lines across the model, which can be a pain for picky painters and modelers.

F. You shouldn't *have* to turn to 3rd party to play a faction with decent and modern models. We should hold GW to a higher standard and they, in turn, shouldn't string their customer base along with 3rd edition models when we know they could do better.

a) Agreed and already stated. I won't play at GW stores anyway, frankly. Way too many thirsty sales people.
b) To a degree. Most designers are putting out models that fit nicely into 40k. Quite a few are putting out models that leave GW eating dust.
c) Even cheap printers like photon s and elegoo mars are good enough to print amazing minis now. God knows what it'll be like in 2 or 3 years time!
d) You can scale as you see fit, very very simply. Like, click on a model and type in 95 or 85% - that simple. It's a 3D printer after all...
e) Not true. 3D printed resin is way tougher than the stuff FW uses, for instance. Filament printing is irrelevant.
f) Agreed. But here we are.

Yeah, scaling is literally one button. It takes less than a second. The other thing I can do with my 3d printed files, if I want to, is pop them into blender, slap a couple bones onto the stl, and repose the model as I like. i can also slice any bits I want off and print them separately, or slap them onto each other in meshmixer.

I got 4 different poses of warp spider from my patreon for 5 bucks - one of 3 aspect warrior squads I'm going to be getting from the same guy for that money, actually, but let's pretend I just liked the spiders.

In less time than it would take to clip and glue together a GW plastic kit, I rotated and supported the models in chitubox to set them up for printing so I can make them for approximately 50 cents each. As many as I want.

with a single button I can make a mirrored version of the model if I want. With a bit more effort, I can load it into Blender, throw a couple bones on it, and move the arms at the shoulder, elbow, wrist, waist, and head. My four poses include standing legs, running backward legs, running forward legs, and stalking forward low to the ground legs, so I can essentially make any poses that I want to make, with no clipping, cutting, anything required.

GW stores are in a closet, with .25 of a single table, a sales person breathing down your neck. Why would I ever want to play in one of those?