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There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

 footfoe wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

I don't think there is confusion on that. Folks just don't like that marines get lots of releases. They'd rather see literally anything else released.

Exactly. It’s facts that Marines get more releases than anyone else. That doesn’t make it good or desirable-just reality.

 footfoe wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

1/4? At this point its only space marines or more space marines especially with model lines. What has had more releases than any other faction in 40k? Space Marines thats the issue here. Their market share is incredibly high right now and thats what people definately do not like that.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

It is purely intentional since SM is the showcase faction of the game and GW's money-making machine.
SM have now more than 100 data sheets, more than a few factions together.
They went overboard with more than 30 bolter type weapons.

Actually a little more than that. SM have 11 factions, and the game totals 34 I think.

They are around 1/3 of the players.

Problem is that right now they are also way more than 1/3 of the releases.

To a certain extent, I don't care about SM releases. What pisses me off is the combination of no releases with 'no model no rules'.

I get that Drukhari are very much a minority faction, and there isn't much money to be had in making new stuff for them. But if they aren't a money spinner, then why be so fething precious about models for them? I would be more than happy to kitbash an Archon on a bike, or with wings, or a Venom with a Blaster, or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx...GW could even do articles on how to do so with the stuff they already sell.

I mean... the faction keyword IMPERIUM is written right there.

Then again, I see your point that GW lists "Space Marines" as its own category on its sales website. Saying that this qualifies as the way it's "supposed" to be is an assumption that the way GW intends for the way things to be is the way that the players are "supposed" to be happy with it. That's like saying "You should consider this to be beautiful not because of what you define as beauty, but because of what I define as beauty." It's just one way to define it, and while that may be a fine way for you to define it, it is no more a "correct" way of defining it as anything else.

I disagree because I think that Space Marines should only be a part of the "40k sales picture" and not the entirety of it. The recent video by GW showing Guardsmen, Sisters, and Space Marines, to me, is a far more excellent sales tactic. Since Space Marines should be only a part of that picture, I am happy to put them under the "Imperium" umbrella. I believe that GW should have a 3-way split; Imperium / Chaos / Xenos. But that's just my belief, and GW has no reason to follow the ravings of one regular dude on the internet.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 footfoe wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

1/4? At this point its only space marines or more space marines especially with model lines. What has had more releases than any other faction in 40k? Space Marines thats the issue here. Their market share is incredibly high right now and thats what people definately do not like that.

It's been around 1/3 since 2017 and the primaris launch, but generally speaking on average it's been about 1/4.

You can look at the BCB thread with all the releases in the infographic if you don't believe me.

There's no confusion on that fact on my front. I just think it makes for a much, much shittier and less interesting game setup. I generally like the science fantasy setup of 40k more than the ultra-high fantasy setup of AOS, but AOS absolutely has a VASTLY more interesting release lineup as of late. The 40k releases have been utterly formulaic, predictable and dull, and the AOS releases have been absolutely incredible. Incredibly menacing, Dark Souls bad guys black knight faction, gorgeous monkey king aesthetic imperial chinese looking high elves, huge spectacular giants, a boxed game that if it has anything going for it rules-wise is going to blow every Coolminiornot fancy miniatures board game out of the water in terms of quality with its incredible undead-vs-undead-hunters miniatures....

And 40k has had...fat versions of space marines. And a mildly interesting admech and necron release wave, but nothing totally spectacular at least IMO. Some of the necron sculpts are pretty cool I guess, and the admech bat guys and horsedog guys were cool.

 footfoe wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

Still doesn't really work out because Space Marines are only two Codizes (in 9th, 6 in 8th and prior) as opposed to 6 for Imperium, 5 for Chaos and 8 for Xenos. I think that's what makes people consider Space Marines not to be as big as a faction comparable to the other superfactions. Also aside from some named characters, special units and Grey Knights all Space Marines use the same models while that is only partly true for Chaos and not true at all for Imperium or Xenos.

 harlokin wrote:
or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx.

I know Dark Eldar players are the most vocal of this, but in 5th edition there were a lot of characters who had rules, but no model, and are now gone. It was hardly a Dark Eldar only problem. Tyranids, Daemons, and Grey Knights are a few of the main ones who come to mind who lost characters in the same way. Granted, I think it was a mistake to create datasheets for a new hero without a model to begin with. I will never miss the Doom of Malan'tai though lol.

I understand the frustration though, as those factions lost almost all their special characters all in the same way, and all the most characterful ones too.

 jaredb wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx.

I know Dark Eldar players are the most vocal of this, but in that edition there were a lot of characters who had rules, but no model, and are now gone. It was hardly a Dark Eldar only problem. Tyranids, Daemons, and Grey Knights are a few of the main ones who come to mind who lost characters in the same way. Granted, I think it was a mistake to create datasheets for a new hero without a model to begin with. I will never miss the doom of malan'tai though lol.

That might be because Orks still had warbosses, many different big meks, doks, small meks, runtherds, waagh banner nobz, weirdboyz etc for HQs, and nids also have many HQs big and small.

Dark eldar were left with 3 HQs, all of which are just "X subfaction category generic commander."

Dark Eldar have by far the least interesting HQs of any faction, so the loss of the named HQs that allowed players to make things more interesting was a much greater blow. They haven't got psykers, they haven't got any "supercharged super-fighter" HQs like Tank Commanders/Tau Suit Commanders/Nid monster HQs/Daemon Princes, they haven't got any HQs with flexible abilities like guard commanders, they're just three very similar generic commandy-types. Like if the only HQs for marines were footslogging relic blade captains, chainsword lieutenants and on foot techmarines.

I think the products in the 40k section of the website are organized for ease of use/ access.

If I'm shopping, finding what I want without going through a long list improves my experience. From that point of view, putting marines and non-marine imperium in different sub menus makes sense.

I think a larger issue is the idea that Xenos are a superfaction. They aren't. Nids, Tau and Eldar don't ally up on the field of battle the way Custodes, Marines, Guard and Sisters do, or the way Chaos marines and Daemons do.

This why you have eldar players screaming for a range update despite the fact that Crons just got one- the cron release makes no difference to the Eldar player.

But EVERY Imperial release has a potential benefit for my Sisters via their potential for alliance. Ditto for Daemons and my CSM.

 harlokin wrote:
To a certain extent, I don't care about SM releases. What pisses me off is the combination of no releases with 'no model no rules'.

I get that Drukhari are very much a minority faction, and there isn't much money to be had in making new stuff for them. But if they aren't a money spinner, then why be so fething precious about models for them? I would be more than happy to kitbash an Archon on a bike, or with wings, or a Venom with a Blaster, or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx...GW could even do articles on how to do so with the stuff they already sell.

Exactly this.

If GW thinks that there's no money to be made in new DE sculpts, then why are they so utterly paranoid about 3rd party companies making them?

Surely they could easily give DE back some of their many lost HQs? Or even (heaven forbid) some new HQs. As harlokin says, I'm sure most DE players would settle just for unit entries - at least then we can convert models for them.

the_scotsman wrote:
That might be because Orks still had warbosses, many different big meks, doks, small meks, runtherds, waagh banner nobz, weirdboyz etc for HQs, and nids also have many HQs big and small.

Dark eldar were left with 3 HQs, all of which are just "X subfaction category generic commander."

Dark Eldar have by far the least interesting HQs of any faction, so the loss of the named HQs that allowed players to make things more interesting was a much greater blow. They haven't got psykers, they haven't got any "supercharged super-fighter" HQs like Tank Commanders/Tau Suit Commanders/Nid monster HQs/Daemon Princes, they haven't got any HQs with flexible abilities like guard commanders, they're just three very similar generic commandy-types. Like if the only HQs for marines were footslogging relic blade captains, chainsword lieutenants and on foot techmarines.

This is also true.

The 5th edition DE book was very dependant on special characters in order to round out its HQ section. For example:
- Baron Sathonyx was the only HQ with a mobility option (so if you wanted to run an HQ with beasts, hellions or such, he was the only option)
- The Decapitator was the only option for a Mandrake HQ. Yeah, he sucked in the role but I'd rather see him improved than removed.
- The Duke was one of the only HQs to provide a global buff.
etc.

The point being, the loss of Special Characters hurt DE far more than it would most armies.

Then there came a further blow in that most of their wargear was subsequently removed or restricted. Archons, for example, can no longer take Webway Portals, Soul Traps, Haywire Grenades, Combat Drugs, Clone Fields, Ghostplate Armour etc.
Similarly, Haemonculi have lost access to Webway Portals, Dark Gates, Shattershards, Orbs of Despair etc.

As scotsman says, we've been left with 3 HQs that aren't even especially different from one another and which all fulfil basically the same role in an army (to sit around not doing a whole lot).

 jaredb wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx.

I know Dark Eldar players are the most vocal of this, but in 5th edition there were a lot of characters who had rules, but no model, and are now gone. It was hardly a Dark Eldar only problem. Tyranids, Daemons, and Grey Knights are a few of the main ones who come to mind who lost characters in the same way. Granted, I think it was a mistake to create datasheets for a new hero without a model to begin with. I will never miss the Doom of Malan'tai though lol.

I understand the frustration though, as those factions lost almost all their special characters all in the same way, and all the most characterful ones too.

I want the Blood Angels to get Moriar the Chosen back. For that matter, why does Chaplain Xavier have to stay dead? We could have a Primaris version of him easy! And why can't SM dreads take four Autocannons anymore? Why has Samael parked his Land Speed?

It's less noticeable because they have more units but Marines have lost plenty over the years themselves.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 jaredb wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
or heaven forbid a Baron Sathonyx.

I know Dark Eldar players are the most vocal of this, but in 5th edition there were a lot of characters who had rules, but no model, and are now gone. It was hardly a Dark Eldar only problem. Tyranids, Daemons, and Grey Knights are a few of the main ones who come to mind who lost characters in the same way. Granted, I think it was a mistake to create datasheets for a new hero without a model to begin with. I will never miss the Doom of Malan'tai though lol.

I understand the frustration though, as those factions lost almost all their special characters all in the same way, and all the most characterful ones too.

I want the Blood Angels to get Moriar the Chosen back. For that matter, why does Chaplain Xavier have to stay dead? We could have a Primaris version of him easy! And why can't SM dreads take four Autocannons anymore? Why has Samael parked his Land Speed?

It's less noticeable because they have more units but Marines have lost plenty over the years themselves.

Like Dudley Dursley at Christmastime.

PenitentJake wrote:

But EVERY Imperial release has a potential benefit for my Sisters via their potential for alliance. Ditto for Daemons and my CSM.

That's not really as true in 9th as it was in 8th. Honestly, maintaining multiple Imperium armies in 9th is more of a burden. I'd rather have a Xenos army than a second Imperium faction now.

The main complaint is that people and occasionally GW going "only Marines sell, make all the Marines."

And then they'll do a non-SM release that flies off the shelves - suggesting that yes, good models+good rules will sell, regardless of whether it happens to be available in Ultramarine Blue.

But then 3 months later its "eh, whatever. No one really wants Tau/Sisters/GSC. Coming soon: Intercessors riding Intercessors riding Flying Bikes."

 Canadian 5th wrote:

I want the Blood Angels to get Moriar the Chosen back. For that matter, why does Chaplain Xavier have to stay dead? We could have a Primaris version of him easy! And why can't SM dreads take four Autocannons anymore? Why has Samael parked his Land Speed?

It's less noticeable because they have more units but Marines have lost plenty over the years themselves.

The autocannon thing really feels bad. I have two dreads with two each, and can't use them anymore.

I remember looking at an old GK codex and was mind blown how many stuff got just removed. Special grenades, storm shields from termintors, cheap servo skull that could be great chaff nowadays.

there was like two whole pages of special stuff characters and squad leaders could take. No idea how that was limited, besides point costs, but comparing to that the GK codex nowadays is very bare bones.

the_scotsman wrote:
Like Dudley Dursley at Christmastime.

Spoken like JK Rowling on a Twitter bender.

Karol wrote:
[The autocannon thing really feels bad. I have two dreads with two each, and can't use them anymore.

I remember looking at an old GK codex and was mind blown how many stuff got just removed. Special grenades, storm shields from termintors, cheap servo skull that could be great chaff nowadays.

there was like two whole pages of special stuff characters and squad leaders could take. No idea how that was limited, besides point costs, but comparing to that the GK codex nowadays is very bare bones.

Why do you need anything extra, don't you know that you're OP because your units are from the Imperium and your troops wear power armor.

Marines might’ve lost some, but what they have left is more than anyone else has.

It’s fine to say “I’d like to get quad auto cannon dreads back,” but is that really more important than updating DE HQs? When they have three with barely any options.

It's so funny when people think that people just need the situation EXPLAINED to them and then they will be like "Oh, GW intends it to be this way? Well now I am obviously completely happy with the situation! Because this is what GW intended! Thank you!"

Seriously, have a word with yourself. No one is "confused". What patronizing bollocks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Marines might’ve lost some, but what they have left is more than anyone else has.

It’s fine to say “I’d like to get quad auto cannon dreads back,” but is that really more important than updating DE HQs? When they have three with barely any options.

It's obviously a troll post looking for reaction. Canadian 5th has already said he only comes on here because he's bored in work.

 jaredb wrote:

 footfoe wrote:
There seems to be some confusion about this idea in the community. Space marines get a little over 1/4 of all releases, and this confuses and angers some people. This must be based on the misconception that there are 3 super factionsl in the game (imperium, chaos, and xenos). But that is blatantly false.

Take a moment and head to the GW store. Check out the Sigmar section first, and notice how the models are divided 4 ways. (order, destruction, chaos, and death). 4 super factions. Now go to 40k. There are also 4 categories laid out in the exact same way. (space marines, imperium, chaos, and xenos). Space marines are not listed under imperium. Do not confuse this with the in game keyword. Space marines are NOT a subfaction of imperium, but a super faction of their own, complete with about as many sub factions as the other super factions.

Space marines gets about as many releases as it should get based on this. This is intentional, and how it has been for literal decades.

I don't think there is confusion on that. Folks just don't like that marines get lots of releases. They'd rather see literally anything else released.

No they don't. At best what they really want is stuff for "their" faction released.

Honestly? It’d be nice to see some more fairness, even if you don’t personally benefit.

I might not play Eldar, but it’d be nice to see updated Phoenix Lords. Or a generic MA Warboss for Orks.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Why do you need anything extra, don't you know that you're OP because your units are from the Imperium and your troops wear power armor.

This seems like you're missing the point. The main complaint about Marines is that theyre overrepresented and oversupported, not necessarily that theyre OP.
Since theyre overrepresented, people also overfocus on every standout unit and get called OP, especially if other armies have similar units that are simply outshined by SM ones (fire dragon vs eradicators for example.)

People think that marins do not make up at least 40% of all armies being played? And that they are not the big money makers for GW, even when GW themselfs said it through the mouths of their employees?

Karol wrote:
People think that marins do not make up at least 40% of all armies being played? And that they are not the big money makers for GW, even when GW themselfs said it through the mouths of their employees?

No, people know that marines make up 40% of the armies being played, thats exactly where to complaining comes from. A single subfaction (with 3 sub subfactions) makes up almost half of all played armies and most of the model/rules support.

In a perfect world, every army would receive the exact same amount of support. Its just painful as a eldar/guard/tau/etc player to see the constant influx or marine content and get nothing more than crumbs in return.

Karol wrote:
People think that marins do not make up at least 40% of all armies being played? And that they are not the big money makers for GW, even when GW themselfs said it through the mouths of their employees?

Honestly...no, I don't actually buy that marines are 40% of all armies played overall.

Back when marines were king with 70% winrate in their best lists, competitive lists were around 33-36% marines.

Competitive faction breakdown is really the only factor we have, and it fluctuates based on which army is competitively stronger obviously, but still only so much, reflecting the actual size of the community that plays that faction. That's why only 3% of people are playing Harlequins - there's just not that many people that play Harlequins.

 Da Boss wrote:
It's so funny when people think that people just need the situation EXPLAINED to them and then they will be like "Oh, GW intends it to be this way? Well now I am obviously completely happy with the situation! Because this is what GW intended! Thank you!"

Seriously, have a word with yourself. No one is "confused". What patronizing bollocks.

It's more like, 1/4 of the releases are Space Marines because those models drive interest in people picking up the game for the first time, we know some long-time players will see this as unfair and lose interest, we account for attrition by releasing new Space Marine models that will bring in new players to replace the ones who left.

If we did the same thing with, say, Slaanesh Daemons, there's a certain percentage of potential players who will never play because their moms are not going to pay for expensive plastic soldiers with claws and bare breasts. We use Space Marines because they are the least threatening of all the factions.

That's not meant to make you happy. But understanding reality is better than uninformed optimism that will never be satisfied.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Marines might’ve lost some, but what they have left is more than anyone else has.

It’s fine to say “I’d like to get quad auto cannon dreads back,” but is that really more important than updating DE HQs? When they have three with barely any options.

No, but given that I don't decide what comes out, what's removed, and when these things happen why not poke a little fun. 40k is just a game after all, if it isn't fun take a break.