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Hello all! I've been looking around and haven't been able to find anything on this subject, but for armies that rules have been adapted for (and forgotten) such as Bretonnia, is there a handicap rule that is used for Tournaments to help those armies out? Say perhaps a 10% increase in points?

I ask this, only because I have been 3D printing an entire Bretonnian army from the Kingdom of Mercia kickstarter, and with my knowing of the game, I know Bretonnia is subpar at best, and would like for a bit of an even fight.

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

If there are any then they are likely unique to each tournament/region. I don't think there's any great move that's been made toward a unified approach toward balancing those forces.

Which is a huge shame, since it leaves those who have armies of them left out in the cold. You might find it easier to run your army as a Cities of Sigmar army using your models as counts-as models from that Battletome - if that's allowed by the event.

Otherwise you might just have to live with the Legends rules as they are. If your events have regular clubs that they play at then you turning up and playing lots of matches might show if there are any big glaring issues that might prompt them to consider a handicap or modification to those rules to make it more fair ;but its a hard call and might not happen.

TBH your best bet is to do what Overread suggested and try to use them as Cities of Sigmar. Tomb Kings and Brettonia have been gone for a while now so there is little to no chance of them receiving anything in the way of game help from either GW or independent organisers. For friendly games just hope your opponent doesn't bring a WAAC tourney list.

Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

If you're looking for casual play, you can use them with older published points, if you have access in friendly games. They are in that case an Order army, so they would use the Order Command traits, Allegiance Ability, and artifacts from the Core Rulebook.

I'd say, unless you really like the models, I'd not invest in trying to play legacy warscrolls/armies as it'd save you a lot of hassle, especially as they are not really legal to even use in anything but open-war and narrative games.

There was a unified front to bring balanced points to the game. And it was doing pretty well too until about 2017.

Then all of that got snuffed out.

 jaredb wrote:
Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

At least most of the Bretonnians can easily count as some of the Freeguild models. The poor Tomb Kings can't use more than half their models as even that as only the medium horsemen or the non-shooting Infantry can really count as something else in Legions.

 Charistoph wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

At least most of the Bretonnians can easily count as some of the Freeguild models. The poor Tomb Kings can't use more than half their models as even that as only the medium horsemen or the non-shooting Infantry can really count as something else in Legions.

Not even that. There are no horse calvary in free-guild, which is pretty much all Bretonnia is. I will say, it's been 5 years, there is literally no surprise that those two armies are not supported, and that folks shouldn't be looking at starting them as an army in aos.

At least op isn't buying any actual models so they are not losing out on anything.

If op wants a calvary army, I highly suggest looking into a supported army with a battletome and save themselves the trouble of proxies/ building models they won't use in game.

 jaredb wrote:
Not even that. There are no horse calvary in free-guild, which is pretty much all Bretonnia is. I will say, it's been 5 years, there is literally no surprise that those two armies are not supported, and that folks shouldn't be looking at starting them as an army in aos.

There are cavalry in the freeguild, but they are expected to have pistols or handguns, and not so heavily armored. I don't know the rules on such, but they could be proxie'd as Drakespawn Knights or Wild Riders, which would be the next closest options in Cities of Sigmar.

Kind of surprised to see the Knights gone, they were a relatively recent kit, but then, so was half of Tomb Kings, too.

Another possibility comes to mind. The OP might want tolook in to Chaos... They have the most human-looking knights in Slaves to Darkness, especially if they don't have a lot of Infantry.

The newest Bret stuff was from 6th edition, no one was surprised there. Tomb Kings is what came as a shock as a full half their line was from 8th edition and quite well-liked.

 jaredb wrote:
Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

GW says you're wrong.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/legends/

Maybe they aren't allowed in various tournaments. {shrugs - tournies can set their own rules anyways}
Maybe various groups demonstrate that they aren't worth playing with.... {I mean what sort of dick move is it to tell the already severely gimped Bretonian player that "Sorry, you can't play"}
But according to the 9th sentence down GW intends our vintage stuff to always be an option regardless of wether we're playing Matched/Narritive/Open.

You're also wrong about the lack of current pts. Whatever the last pts value given, that's their current pts.

 jaredb wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

At least most of the Bretonnians can easily count as some of the Freeguild models. The poor Tomb Kings can't use more than half their models as even that as only the medium horsemen or the non-shooting Infantry can really count as something else in Legions.

Not even that. There are no horse calvary in free-guild, which is pretty much all Bretonnia is. I will say, it's been 5 years, there is literally no surprise that those two armies are not supported, and that folks shouldn't be looking at starting them as an army in aos.

At least op isn't buying any actual models so they are not losing out on anything.

If op wants a calvary army, I highly suggest looking into a supported army with a battletome and save themselves the trouble of proxies/ building models they won't use in game.

I saw youtube battle report of guy playing flesh eater courts with bretonnia models. Worked surprisingly well. Mounted cavalry as horrors, pegasus rider as flayer, griffon rider as terrorgheist vampire, men at arms as ghouls. Only issue would be archers and some more unique units.

Only hickup is horrors at speed 7" feel slow for cavalry.

If they are on the right bases, than go for it! The original griffin model from the brettonia line is significantly smaller than a terrorgiest, so for scale that one would be hard. Tiny model swimming on a massive round base.

tneva82 wrote:

Only hickup is horrors at speed 7" feel slow for cavalry.

7" was the Movement of most barded heavy Cav in Fantasy. It's only 1" slower than Bretonnian Cav were at 8". It only "feels slow" because everything else got a huge bump in speed from the average 4".

 Platuan4th wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Only hickup is horrors at speed 7" feel slow for cavalry.

7" was the Movement of most barded heavy Cav in Fantasy. It's only 1" slower than Bretonnian Cav were at 8". It only "feels slow" because everything else got a huge bump in speed from the average 4".

Well funny that. You don't compare stuff to old rules but with current.

If current cavalry models move X" speed then unit is fast/slow compared to that X". Not how fast it moved compared to old game that is irrelevant to current game.

Cavalry of old game could move 2" and 7" would still be slow for cavalry in current game if cavalry moves 14" generally.

ccs wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
Just gotta say first of all, Brettonia warscrolls are all legends and not officially allowed in matched play, and don't have current points.

GW says you're wrong.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/legends/

Maybe they aren't allowed in various tournaments. {shrugs - tournies can set their own rules anyways}
Maybe various groups demonstrate that they aren't worth playing with.... {I mean what sort of dick move is it to tell the already severely gimped Bretonian player that "Sorry, you can't play"}
But according to the 9th sentence down GW intends our vintage stuff to always be an option regardless of wether we're playing Matched/Narritive/Open.

You're also wrong about the lack of current pts. Whatever the last pts value given, that's their current pts.

This is from the Errata from the latest Generals Handbook.

Q: When choosing an army for a Pitched Battle, what
publications can I use without my opponent’s permission?

A: You can use the warscrolls for units with a Pitched
Battle profile listed in the General’s Handbook 2020
(excluding those listed in the Legends Pitched Battle
Profiles section) and the warscrolls for units with a
Pitched Battle profile in a publication that has a release
date of August 2020 or later.

Also, it's been over five years, It's no surprise that if they want to still play that army as that army, they are in for a hard time. I know it sucks, but really it's time to move on.

tneva82 wrote:
I saw youtube battle report of guy playing flesh eater courts with bretonnia models. Worked surprisingly well. Mounted cavalry as horrors, pegasus rider as flayer, griffon rider as terrorgheist vampire, men at arms as ghouls. Only issue would be archers and some more unique units.

Heh, that's a good idea, actually. If pressed on it, just say, this is how the Crypt Lords see themselves and their army. You just happened to get caught up in the illusion as well.

Yeah i liked that one. Seeing all fec is bret jokes kind of fit. And there's even lore justification for it...(incidentally were i to do display board for fec it would use this theme as well)

tneva82 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Only hickup is horrors at speed 7" feel slow for cavalry.

7" was the Movement of most barded heavy Cav in Fantasy. It's only 1" slower than Bretonnian Cav were at 8". It only "feels slow" because everything else got a huge bump in speed from the average 4".

Well funny that. You don't compare stuff to old rules but with current.

If current cavalry models move X" speed then unit is fast/slow compared to that X". Not how fast it moved compared to old game that is irrelevant to current game.

Cavalry of old game could move 2" and 7" would still be slow for cavalry in current game if cavalry moves 14" generally.

Woosh.