Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

2 codexes a month is actually massive and I don't expect this to be the releasing rate forever; I'd settle with 1 codex every 2 or even 3 months actually.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
I'm also going to quibble here; did GW ever maintain 2 codexes a month for an entire year? You keep alluding to that, Jake, but IIRC they did that for several months in a row and then ran out of gas. I don't think it's crazy to expect a flurry of releases from GW, that's certainly their MO. But I don't know that we've seen a sustained flow like you allege. There's just not a lot of reason to expect things to go faster than they did in 8th (given index -> codex was a bigger transition than codex 1 -> codex 2, even if it doesn't feel that way sometimes.)

Not codexes, no. With other books - campaigns and such - the numbers creeps up. They definitely pushed out a lot of books pretty quickly though ( relative to GW of yore ).

Right, but the factor here is they're still doing 'other books' (broken realms, mission packs (crusade and otherwise), Warzone Chacha, etc). So the idea that they'll return to the brief 'codex' flurry of the end-of-2020 (which was actually mostly SM supplements) anytime soon seems unreasonable.

Voss wrote:


Right, but the factor here is they're still doing 'other books' (broken realms, mission packs (crusade and otherwise), Warzone Chacha, etc). So the idea that they'll return to the brief 'codex' flurry of the end-of-2020 (which was actually mostly SM supplements) anytime soon seems unreasonable.

Charadon seems to have been designed to release in the same window as AM, Knights, and DE. We just see the screwed up release dates. The next Charadon book will likely have 3 or 4 codexes tied in as well that should release in tandem. Then we'll have AoS for a bit and catch whatever comes in the Fall.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:


Right, but the factor here is they're still doing 'other books' (broken realms, mission packs (crusade and otherwise), Warzone Chacha, etc). So the idea that they'll return to the brief 'codex' flurry of the end-of-2020 (which was actually mostly SM supplements) anytime soon seems unreasonable.

Charadon seems to have been designed to release in the same window as AM, Knights, and DE. We just see the screwed up release dates. The next Charadon book will likely have 3 or 4 codexes tied in as well that should release in tandem. Then we'll have AoS for a bit and catch whatever comes in the Fall.

What are the odds that when/if charadon book bombs (Likely) they will decide that was because they released too much. I.E. People will buy DE book but not both because its clearly just stuff cut from the dex being sold as a 4P add on..

They still invested tp make those books and will need to recoup costs. So my guess is they will force a break from codexes and drop the campaign book so people will buy it as there wont be a codex anounced etc.

Not to mention, they obviously going to do another SM codex and supplement wave

I'm pretty sure the books are just marketing for the models. If there's a decline in plastic shipped GW might think things like Charadon was a failure, if not then it will be considered to have done its job, even if its hard to translate the book itself into direct sales. (Okay if none sell maybe it was a waste of time, but I feel safe in saying that won't happen.)

Voss wrote:


They had to scale back already, no chance it might happen again! History is, of course, completely meaningless. /s

But what they scaled back too was one per month. That is the scaled back.

They released Crons and Marines in October. They released Wolves and Deathguard in November. Blood Angels came in December; Deathguard got bumped to January. Dark Angels and Drukhari were both scheduled for January; DA got Bumped to February and Drukhari got bumped to March. At no point did we ever drop below one dex per month.

Voss wrote:


We're not at 'rock bottom.' We're at 'stressed infrastructure' and 'easing restrictions when it can get worse.'

I'll give you that; you're right, it could always get worse, and it is hubris to suggest otherwise- I stand corrected.

Voss wrote:

And, again, you're ignoring everything else they want to release.

The post you selectively quoted also referred to the Lumineth release, the Be'Lakor release, the Cursed City release and a Direchasm release. Not ignoring anything my dude.

Voss wrote:


You're optimism is wearying.

Really? Is that because you don't want to feel happy, or because you don't want others to feel happy?

The thing about optimism is that it tends to lift people up. And even if for some reason my optimism does get you down, take heart in the fact that optimism is the minority opinion in this forum.

Your wearying pessimism, on the other hand, is damn near omnipresent.

Voss wrote:


Especially since when it doesn't happen,

You're right.

When I maintained we'd get Trueborn and Blood Brides, that didn't happen.
When I maintained they'd fix Drukhari transport capacities, that didn't happen either.
When I asserted after seeing the 9th trailer that sisters would get a second wave, that didn't happen.

And it's also true that holding out for plastic sisters for 15 years was all in vain, as was waiting twenty years for the GSC.

Voss wrote:


its going to be accompanied by cries of 'GW promised!' when they didn't.

I was pretty POed when 9th was announced; I had expected 8th to be the persistent edition, because it was clear that GW was building the infrastructure to support a persistent edition. When they announced 9th, I went through about two weeks where I was as miserable as the forum zeitgeist tends to be most of the time.

But I think that I'm generally pretty tolerant. If anything, I suspect there are people who think of me as a White Knight.

I frequently engage in speculation, and usually I point it out when I'm doing it. And when my speculation turns out to be incorrect, I generally don't mind, because I'm aware that it was speculation.

Voss wrote:

All we know for sure is Ad Mech is next month, and Sisters and Orks are coming (with fairly significant releases, which you've previously denied would happen) in a vaguely 3 month time frame. GW hasn't committed to anything beyond that.

Well, you're certainly right about that being all they've committed to; the part about my denial requires context.

I did hypothesize that GW may restrict factions to a single model release with their dex in order to deliver a second wave as part of a campaign. I never denied the models were coming; I was merely pointing out that they aren't guaranteed to drop when their dexes do if GW decides they'd rather release parts of the range in box sets or as part of a campaign cycle. And to be fair, we still don't know if all the models for Sisters and Orks will drop with their dexes, though I must admit I have started to see the likelihood that they will... a revision of my original hypothesis.

All I'm really insisting is that we will likely continue to see a minimum of one codex per month. If we do, all of the dexes should be out by Q4 of 2022. Even if they create new factions; even if they create additional marine supplements, the projected time frame under discussion here is 19-21 months with one book per month.

Beyond that, I am agreeing with you that we will see Ad Mech in April and that we will likely see Sisters and Orks in the 3 month window you've described; I've even modified my original hypothesis to align more with yours, in that I now expect the previewed models to drop with the dexes.

So far, I feel like we're both on the same page, right?

Here's where I diverge:

I believe that it is possible that the Second act of Charadon will drop in Q2. I further believe that it is possible Sisters and Orks will be two of the armies represented in that book. This is speculation, but I believe the likelihood is high- so high that you may even agree this much is probable.

I further believe that Be'Lakor's release makes a good case for Chaos Daemons in Q2. And if so, they are also likely to be the third army in Charadon act 2. This is speculation as well, and while I still believe it is quite likely, it is less likely than my first act of speculation. You're less likely to buy this, and even I will concede that your skepticism has legs here. My only "evidence" is that April's coin is Be'Lakor, the model has been previewed, and 40k rules for the model have been confirmed.

Finally, I'm wildly speculating here- I think the 4rth Charadon army might be CSM. Wild speculation... Based primarily on the fact that they really, really need their dex because of their 1W discrepancy with loyalists, because they're mentioned as being present in the theatre of war in Charadon act 1, and because they're in the stained glass window with the sisters in the Paragon and Castigator preview videos.

As for the pace of the release schedule, I am pretty sure that in October, they talked about a release schedule of 2 dexes per month. They certainly did deliver that in October and November, and it's 100% confirmed that they planned to do it in December and we're also pretty sure it was supposed to happen in January too, though you'd be correct to point out it was never explicitly confirmed. With all of that, I'm certain that 2/ month was the original plan.

I believe that GW probably wants to return to that schedule as quickly as they can- the longer it takes, the further behind we fall. It may not be possible to do this anytime soon, and even if possible, it may not be safe. But we have seen a recent acceleration in the release schedule, with substantial releases for three continuous weeks, after two months of getting a single release every two weeks. I'm not saying that absolutely means that we are going back to 2 dexes per month; I'm saying it's a good sign.

Sorry for the wearying optimism.

 Argive wrote:

What are the odds that when/if charadon book bombs (Likely) they will decide that was because they released too much. I.E. People will buy DE book but not both because its clearly just stuff cut from the dex being sold as a 4P add on..

They still invested tp make those books and will need to recoup costs. So my guess is they will force a break from codexes and drop the campaign book so people will buy it as there wont be a codex anounced etc.

Not to mention, they obviously going to do another SM codex and supplement wave

All the better reason to not buy this one so they get the hint. I think the cat is out of the bag now, anyway.

Tyel wrote:
I'm pretty sure the books are just marketing for the models

is water wet?

This has been the case forever. GW knows that new models will sell MOREif they tantalize you with cool rules for 2 months, then the next hotness...lather, rinse, repeat.

Factor in some mistakes, errors, etc and it begins to look pretty much like how GW works.

Some people care more about the models & lore than the rules(myself included). Others only care for rules, which is fine but then don't complain when your desire to be top dog requires you to pay...and pay...and pay...

I'm just glad the new book allows those who chose to play differently are not punished for doing so.
It's actually given me hope for the other pointy ears...but hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 Argive wrote:
By my estimates there are 13 armies(see below) waiting for updates,12 if you consider ad mech potentialy getting dropped in april, however with covid and delays etc that have been prevalent they would have to stick to a strict 1 codex a month I just dont see it happening. Also It would not surprise me if we see another SM codex/ Moar supplements before the year is out. Because GW...

GK
CWE
Harlies
Chaos Demons
AD mech
GSC
Tyranids
SOB
CSM
TS
IG
IK
CK

Have I forgotten any?

I think you missed a few. From my reading we need:
Adeptus Mechanicus - April confirmed by GW
Imperial Knights - Soon based on Book of Rust
Adepta Sororitas - Soon based on previews
Orks - Soon based on previews

And in the order on the GW store we also need:
Black Templars Supplement
Grey Knights
Adeptus Custodes (with Sisters of Silence?)
Astra Militarum
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Knights
Chaos Space Marines
Thousand Sons
Craftworlds (with Ynnari?)
Genestealer Cults
Harlequins
T'au Empire
Tyranids

So that is 17 codexes without revising the six 8th Edition Space Marine Supplements. Dang, that is a lot of books.

Exactly. That's a lot of books..
It always sucks to be the last ones to get your rules.

I just wished they'd did it in the order of armies needing updates the most. I.E. GK, CSM getting their second wound.

The fact that it could end up being 2 years for the Wound disparity between CSM and marines is a horrible prospect. That is a LOONG time

For good or ill, we all know that GW releases codexes around models as opposed to the need for rules. Could be one or two special models made to coincide with the rules (Death Guard, Drukhari) or it could be a major expansion of a model range (Space Marines Mk2 for 8th, Space Marines and Necrons in 9th).

So the question you have to ask yourself is which group do you want your codex release included in?

LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

What I really like about this book is that the faction works very well without spamming anything. It actually encourages to bring a little of eveything which is awesome. I don't even see much power creep in this codex but maybe is too soon to tell.

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

It's more a wish than an issue, every faction has to deal with not being able to buff dudes inside transports.
Would it be cool ? Yes. Is it different than how the game works and thus "broken" (as in "needing a fix") ? No.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

Yes, but to be fair, aside from a fairly specific build they aren't that good at buffing anyway. The issues with our transports IMO are 'mostly' fixed...in any case they are in a better state than I expected.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

Well this is not a drukhari issue, it affects everyone. And now a squad of kabalite warriors can fire at BS2+ and move without penalties which is even better than hitting on 3s with blasters, 4s with the lance if the transport move and get the re-roll of 1s to hit from the Archon.

 Blackie wrote:
2 codexes a month is actually massive and I don't expect this to be the releasing rate forever; I'd settle with 1 codex every 2 or even 3 months actually.

Then we are back to the world where armies are not getting a codex every edition. Ask a Dark Eldar player how fun it was to have the same codex for 7 years and 3 editions of the game (3e-5th).
Or Necrons 8 years.

We've been there, it was gak. Lets not go back there.

7-8 years is of course too much, in fact I've asked for 5.

But I've played with an ork codex that was released at the end of 4th edition and was uptaded only when 7th was already in play. I'd go back to that period immediately, regardless of the amount of power creep my army could miss.

Now we also have FAQs and points changes, both released very frequently unlike a decade ago, so rushing for a codex every 2-3 years doesn't really make much sense. Several armies, including my orks, but also Harlequins, Custodes, Adepta Sororitas, etc... are still perfectly fine with an older edition codex. There's really no need of a codex of each army every edition.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There's some truth to that. Marines can still make a suicide Captain with a Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer if they wanted for example, it's just less efficient of a bomb. GW meanwhile didn't fix the HQs for Dark Eldar AGAIN.

The policy of GW is simple - no model no codex entry.
This particularly concerns Archon w/ jetbike or skyboard.

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

I mean no, because that's not what an archon does in a shooting list setup. He either plays it safe and shoots a relic pistol out of the transport with the boys, or he's a murdarchon build with some incubi or sslyth somewhere ready to stab a fool.

An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.

You're looking at a dude that can obliterate 3x his point value in a single turn without breaking a sweat and then has a PRETTY DECENT chance of surviving to keep murdering things thanks to his 2++ save and going "man, but I do wish his gakky captain aura that works on 3 units in the entire game could project out of the transport he's in."

 wuestenfux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There's some truth to that. Marines can still make a suicide Captain with a Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer if they wanted for example, it's just less efficient of a bomb. GW meanwhile didn't fix the HQs for Dark Eldar AGAIN.

The policy of GW is simple - no model no codex entry.
This particularly concerns Archon w/ jetbike or skyboard.

Yup, I'm surprised Archons and Succubi managed to keep access to Blast Pistols. The poor old Haemonculus lost all gear options

An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.

Personal experience is that 85 point model is devastating even without the re-rolls. Not sure where the 3 extra attacks or re-rolls came from (or even if my opponent got 100% of the statline correct) but a 7A archon ANNIHILATED a squad of 4 mortifiers that I made the mistake of cheekily consolidating into it after I exploded a transport with flails.
He did his 2 fight phases, killed 2 of them, I took my turn and his shadowfield protected him from the heavy bolters shooting at him, and he killed the last 2 mortifiers before they could even fight.

Learned my lesson. Was expecting like, Blessed Blade Canoness levels of output, not "murder literally everything"!

It is worth it if you are taking lots of Incubi and Drazhar, he gives out (not in RSR but in normal detachments and Raiding force) Re-rolls hits of 1 to all Incubi (Not core).

Over all the Archon is worst than he was in 8th, Huskblades are User str now instead of +1/+2 str (they should be +2 and its User FFS).

Archons IMO are just a tax now unless you have 400pts into Incubi/Draz.

Rihgu wrote:

An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.

Personal experience is that 85 point model is devastating even without the re-rolls. Not sure where the 3 extra attacks or re-rolls came from (or even if my opponent got 100% of the statline correct) but a 7A archon ANNIHILATED a squad of 4 mortifiers that I made the mistake of cheekily consolidating into it after I exploded a transport with flails.
He did his 2 fight phases, killed 2 of them, I took my turn and his shadowfield protected him from the heavy bolters shooting at him, and he killed the last 2 mortifiers before they could even fight.

Learned my lesson. Was expecting like, Blessed Blade Canoness levels of output, not "murder literally everything"!

Oh, no, sorry, I got it wrong, the murdarchon isn't 10 attacks, he's FOURTEEN. 14 S4 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll all hits and wounds for 85pts - absolutely bananas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It is worth it if you are taking lots of Incubi and Drazhar, he gives out (not in RSR but in normal detachments and Raiding force) Re-rolls hits of 1 to all Incubi (Not core).

Over all the Archon is worst than he was in 8th, Huskblades are User str now instead of +1/+2 str (they should be +2 and its User FFS).

Archons IMO are just a tax now unless you have 400pts into Incubi/Draz.

I'm really not seeing it. He seems bananas just on his own, he's got a default warlord trait/relic now so he's for sure much more one-note than before, but that one note is LOUD AS feth.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Jake said Dark Eldar TRANSPORT CAPACITIES were fixed.

Reading skills are useful when posting on forums.

Does anyone know what the model is on page 87 of the codex, top photograph, riding on the Razorwing Jetfighter? On closer inspection, the Razorwing looks like it has a weird 'turret' on the top too

the_scotsman wrote:
but I do wish his gakky captain aura that works on 3 units in the entire game could project out of the transport he's in."

Thank you. I found the qualifier for fixing DE transports hinging on that tiny buff to be...I dunno...petty? Maybe that's the wrong word. Not intending to insult anyone with the phrasing though.

the_scotsman wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.

Personal experience is that 85 point model is devastating even without the re-rolls. Not sure where the 3 extra attacks or re-rolls came from (or even if my opponent got 100% of the statline correct) but a 7A archon ANNIHILATED a squad of 4 mortifiers that I made the mistake of cheekily consolidating into it after I exploded a transport with flails.
He did his 2 fight phases, killed 2 of them, I took my turn and his shadowfield protected him from the heavy bolters shooting at him, and he killed the last 2 mortifiers before they could even fight.

Learned my lesson. Was expecting like, Blessed Blade Canoness levels of output, not "murder literally everything"!

Oh, no, sorry, I got it wrong, the murdarchon isn't 10 attacks, he's FOURTEEN. 14 S4 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll all hits and wounds for 85pts - absolutely bananas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It is worth it if you are taking lots of Incubi and Drazhar, he gives out (not in RSR but in normal detachments and Raiding force) Re-rolls hits of 1 to all Incubi (Not core).

Over all the Archon is worst than he was in 8th, Huskblades are User str now instead of +1/+2 str (they should be +2 and its User FFS).

Archons IMO are just a tax now unless you have 400pts into Incubi/Draz.

I'm really not seeing it. He seems bananas just on his own, he's got a default warlord trait/relic now so he's for sure much more one-note than before, but that one note is LOUD AS feth.

More so for Incubi than Drazha. He is mostly a tax though. IMO GW did the Archon wrong. Just saying he can be used as auramancer still to good effect if you wanted to. 13" (6 on each side) can easily get 2+ units within aura range, and with Incubi/Drazhar having a Fight last mechanic now, that could be what you want.

the_scotsman wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?

Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?

Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?

I mean no, because that's not what an archon does in a shooting list setup. He either plays it safe and shoots a relic pistol out of the transport with the boys, or he's a murdarchon build with some incubi or sslyth somewhere ready to stab a fool.

An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.

You're looking at a dude that can obliterate 3x his point value in a single turn without breaking a sweat and then has a PRETTY DECENT chance of surviving to keep murdering things thanks to his 2++ save and going "man, but I do wish his gakky captain aura that works on 3 units in the entire game could project out of the transport he's in."

That's just one Archon. You forget about the rest of the list?