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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?
Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?
Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?
I mean no, because that's not what an archon does in a shooting list setup. He either plays it safe and shoots a relic pistol out of the transport with the boys, or he's a murdarchon build with some incubi or sslyth somewhere ready to stab a fool.
An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.
You're looking at a dude that can obliterate 3x his point value in a single turn without breaking a sweat and then has a PRETTY DECENT chance of surviving to keep murdering things thanks to his 2++ save and going "man, but I do wish his gakky captain aura that works on 3 units in the entire game could project out of the transport he's in."
That's just one Archon. You forget about the rest of the list?
What drukhari list needs to field more than 1 archon? You playing trip kabal patrols or something?
HQ1 murdarchon
HQ2 Drazar
if you want to make a pure kabal list, there you go, you've got 6 troop slots, 4 elite 4 fast 4 heavy and 4 flyers to play with, and 2 subfaction traits. if you really really must have a third detachment with another archon, make it black heart and give him the writ, but that's mostly only worthwhile if you're playing him in a RSR so he can give reroll 1s to hit and to wound to Scourges/RR1s to hit to Reavers/Taloi/etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: is the archon the best character ever? no, obviously, he's a boring, generic HQ, basically identical to SM captain/Autarch/Canoness/techpriest dominus/overlord/chaos lord/whatever.
but most of those guys don't have the option to pick a particular relic and warlord trait and be able to output 14 S4 AP-3 d3 attacks with rerolls to hit and wound, they just have to stand around next to some shooty thing and go 'reroll your 1s to hit, isn't this fun and great?'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/31 16:21:38
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
So, was poking around the US online store. Drazhar is currently the only available dark eldar model out of the entire range. Everything else is gone, bar book, dice and cards.
Kind of jaw dropping, even with all the production and shipping issues.
Voss wrote: So, was poking around the US online store. Drazhar is currently the only available dark eldar model out of the entire range. Everything else is gone, bar book, dice and cards.
Kind of jaw dropping, even with all the production and shipping issues.
XeNoS dOnT sElL gW jUsT mAkEs MaRiNeS bEcAuSe XeNoS dOnT sElL
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Voss wrote: So, was poking around the US online store. Drazhar is currently the only available dark eldar model out of the entire range. Everything else is gone, bar book, dice and cards.
Kind of jaw dropping, even with all the production and shipping issues.
XeNoS dOnT sElL gW jUsT mAkEs MaRiNeS bEcAuSe XeNoS dOnT sElL
Indeed. They had the same problem with necrons, too. At several points in the lead up to Indomitus/Codex, only Szeras was available. But there was a lot less buzz for DE (and necrons were closer to the factory shutdown period), so I'm surprised.
Curious to see what happens with Ad Mech. They're currently missing a few things (including the Dominus, which is baffling considering how many boxes that kit was stuffed in), but I want to see if the codex launch wrecks the supply like this.
Voss wrote: So, was poking around the US online store. Drazhar is currently the only available dark eldar model out of the entire range. Everything else is gone, bar book, dice and cards.
Kind of jaw dropping, even with all the production and shipping issues.
XeNoS dOnT sElL gW jUsT mAkEs MaRiNeS bEcAuSe XeNoS dOnT sElL
Not that I'm disagreeing with your sentiment, but it's hard to know how much stock they had on hand. Pretty much everything has been selling out. The accountants are probably loving the bare shelves.
Voss wrote: So, was poking around the US online store. Drazhar is currently the only available dark eldar model out of the entire range. Everything else is gone, bar book, dice and cards.
Kind of jaw dropping, even with all the production and shipping issues.
XeNoS dOnT sElL gW jUsT mAkEs MaRiNeS bEcAuSe XeNoS dOnT sElL
Not that I'm disagreeing with your sentiment, but it's hard to know how much stock they had on hand. Pretty much everything has been selling out. The accountants are probably loving the bare shelves.
Or angry that they currently can't sell things. Being 'sold out' is something going wrong, not a win condition for accountants.
The more stuff that's sold out is more sales they're missing out on.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: LOOOOOOL Did Jake seriously say, with a straight face, Dark Eldar transport issues were fixed?
Aren't they fixed now? I thought they got the extra space and raiders also got +1T. Already had and kept invuln, decent weapons, mobility and venoms also come with a built-in -1 to hit. The army works without spamming lots of transports. What else do they need?
Do Archons still have to climb out of their transports to motivate the raiders inside of it to shoot better?
I mean no, because that's not what an archon does in a shooting list setup. He either plays it safe and shoots a relic pistol out of the transport with the boys, or he's a murdarchon build with some incubi or sslyth somewhere ready to stab a fool.
An archon in a classic venomspam kabal heavy list setup isn't a buff piece. His dumb little SM captain aura isn't worth building around, but his ability to be a 85pt model that outputs 10 S7 AP-3 D3 attacks with reroll hits and wounds in a single round is.
You're looking at a dude that can obliterate 3x his point value in a single turn without breaking a sweat and then has a PRETTY DECENT chance of surviving to keep murdering things thanks to his 2++ save and going "man, but I do wish his gakky captain aura that works on 3 units in the entire game could project out of the transport he's in."
That's just one Archon. You forget about the rest of the list?
What drukhari list needs to field more than 1 archon? You playing trip kabal patrols or something?
HQ1 murdarchon
HQ2 Drazar
if you want to make a pure kabal list, there you go, you've got 6 troop slots, 4 elite 4 fast 4 heavy and 4 flyers to play with, and 2 subfaction traits. if you really really must have a third detachment with another archon, make it black heart and give him the writ, but that's mostly only worthwhile if you're playing him in a RSR so he can give reroll 1s to hit and to wound to Scourges/RR1s to hit to Reavers/Taloi/etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: is the archon the best character ever? no, obviously, he's a boring, generic HQ, basically identical to SM captain/Autarch/Canoness/techpriest dominus/overlord/chaos lord/whatever.
but most of those guys don't have the option to pick a particular relic and warlord trait and be able to output 14 S4 AP-3 d3 attacks with rerolls to hit and wound, they just have to stand around next to some shooty thing and go 'reroll your 1s to hit, isn't this fun and great?'
What Dark Eldar list would run more than one Archon? Maybe the ones that don't want to be forced into running Drazhar? Have some standards for your rules writing, please.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I'm not too interested in Drazhar(don't like the model) so I'm at least one person that runs more than one Archon. but I also mix kabal & cults, so take from that what you will.
Is being "forced" into an option by virtue of rules/costs etc good? Unequivocally, No.
Is having multiple options available that fit varied playstyles at approximate power levels good?
feth YEAH!
The book at least offers variety and seems like it'll be fun to play when I get around to updating my Deldar.
I can easily see 2 archons being competitive.
My initial take was RSR+Pat of Drazhar/Archon, and I'm not really deviating from that if you aren't feeling like a meme-y all in. (Do I want to buy another 40 wracks and somehow harvest liquifier parts from across the internet? Yes and no.)
Double Blackheart Archon - was good before, is still good now. Tbf muse is probably only worth it in RSR because of the core restriction - but there's quite a bit of potential mileage here. Scourge, Mandrakes, Incubi are all solid anyway and with double reroll 1s to wound move up to being incredible. Admittedly you probably want to spread out, but you can sort of contrive it in early turns. Since this archon is just a buff+CP bot, you can throw him next to whatever is key depending on your opponents list/game state.
As previously said, the double attack Djin Blade/Hatred Eternal Archon is solid all the time and utterly ludicrous for one round if he doesn't die.
Going to keep banging the drum for Ancient Evil though because making someone fight last is incredibly powerful, bordering on game breaking in certain matchups. A bit fiddly perhaps because you need to be in engagement range - but still. Tbh this is probably a meta pick on the Djin Blade guy.
(Its a similar argument I think on Vexator Mask, but PoF wouldn't be my go-to Coven obsession. But if you were just bringing a guy+min squad of wracks along to unlock an RSR, it might be a useful piece on the board. But so is the Dark Creed Warlord trait.)
Don't know if you all already noticed but piety and pain is back in stock on the UK store. I just grabbed me a copy as I missed it when it first went up for sale.
I also think that Drazhar con be skipped. He's definitely good but all the 3 basic HQs are much more useful IMHO. And Incubi are killy (and expensive) enough to be competitive without a babysitter.
Back on the subject of how Drukhari stack up vs existing, weaker factions, there's a fantastic batrep from Vanguard Tactics that shows what well-piloted Tau can do to counter the new drukhari stuff.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
harlokin wrote: The unfortunate point of comparison is the Succubus, which is spoilt for choice when it comes to effective and interesting setups.
My favorite is the +3 attack wip relic combined with mortal wounds on 6's to wound equal to your damage.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
the_scotsman wrote: Back on the subject of how Drukhari stack up vs existing, weaker factions, there's a fantastic batrep from Vanguard Tactics that shows what well-piloted Tau can do to counter the new drukhari stuff.
I caught a bit of a batrep where Siegler beat Nanavanti's DG with T'au. I wasn't able to watch it all or find a list so I have no idea if it was a Sieglerism or a workable main-stream strategy for T'au.
the_scotsman wrote: Back on the subject of how Drukhari stack up vs existing, weaker factions, there's a fantastic batrep from Vanguard Tactics that shows what well-piloted Tau can do to counter the new drukhari stuff.
I caught a bit of a batrep where Siegler beat Nanavanti's DG with T'au. I wasn't able to watch it all or find a list so I have no idea if it was a Sieglerism or a workable main-stream strategy for T'au.
Without a list I think we just have to assume genius level game play.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
harlokin wrote: The unfortunate point of comparison is the Succubus, which is spoilt for choice when it comes to effective and interesting setups.
My favorite is the +3 attack wip relic combined with mortal wounds on 6's to wound equal to your damage.
The other cool thing about the Triptych Whip is that you can chop the hand off a Daemonette chariot pilot for the conversion. She's got one in each hand, so you even get to pick which hand you want the conversion to hold it in; I haven't done this yet because I don't have a chariot to spare, but it will happen eventually.
harlokin wrote: The unfortunate point of comparison is the Succubus, which is spoilt for choice when it comes to effective and interesting setups.
My favorite is the +3 attack wip relic combined with mortal wounds on 6's to wound equal to your damage.
The other cool thing about the Triptych Whip is that you can chop the hand off a Daemonette chariot pilot for the conversion. She's got one in each hand, so you even get to pick which hand you want the conversion to hold it in; I haven't done this yet because I don't have a chariot to spare, but it will happen eventually.
Very little experience playing against the PA tau but the one time I did it was clearly at busted power levels. That Riptide ioncannon is basically a volcano cannon that automatically gets 6 shots. That crisis suit team has a few 2+ saves in it and ignores ap-1 and 2 and is great at killing pretty much anything because of the buff mander. I am not sure about the breechers and devil fish and why they are included there could be some rule I am not familiar with. I assume it wins by picking units off backfield objectives and denying the center - with lots of cheap units to score the freebie action objectives.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/02 18:14:35
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Have you seen the Razorflails + Toxin + Competitive Edge one?
Seems like Razorflails ability doubles de attacks from Competitive Edge. In the last Art of War game the Drukhari player attacks Guilliman with 7 attacks, Razorflails double to 14 hit rolls, 3 go through for 6 dmg. Afterwards the 11 failed attacks double again for 22 hit rolls, killing the Primarch.
If thats supposed to be played that way, it’s going to be FAQd for sure.
Have you seen the Razorflails + Toxin + Competitive Edge one?
Seems like Razorflails ability doubles de attacks from Competitive Edge. In the last Art of War game the Drukhari player attacks Guilliman with 7 attacks, Razorflails double to 14 hit rolls, 3 go through for 6 dmg. Afterwards the 11 failed attacks double again for 22 hit rolls, killing the Primarch.
If thats supposed to be played that way, it’s going to be FAQd for sure.
Nah - 60 point models should be killing 380 point ones with relative ease. That is the way it should work
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Have you seen the Razorflails + Toxin + Competitive Edge one?
Seems like Razorflails ability doubles de attacks from Competitive Edge. In the last Art of War game the Drukhari player attacks Guilliman with 7 attacks, Razorflails double to 14 hit rolls, 3 go through for 6 dmg. Afterwards the 11 failed attacks double again for 22 hit rolls, killing the Primarch.
If thats supposed to be played that way, it’s going to be FAQd for sure.
It remains to be seen but it does seem to be an unintended rules interaction. Thre is precedent for bonus attack rolls getting doubled/tripled by the weapon ability. Just seems to have been a poorly thought out wl trait.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Have you seen the Razorflails + Toxin + Competitive Edge one?
Seems like Razorflails ability doubles de attacks from Competitive Edge. In the last Art of War game the Drukhari player attacks Guilliman with 7 attacks, Razorflails double to 14 hit rolls, 3 go through for 6 dmg. Afterwards the 11 failed attacks double again for 22 hit rolls, killing the Primarch.
If thats supposed to be played that way, it’s going to be FAQd for sure.
Yep, i'm working on her right now. I have already been playing her with the idea of a FAQ in mind, the 2nd round of attacks don't get the +1atk from Razorflails, so if it is nerf I am use to it already and if it is not then i get a boost.
Elfric wrote: Guys I am seeing the Void Bomber being hyped. I have one. Is one enough or would having 2-3 be too much?
Just be kind to your opponent and let them know to space out 6" between units so you don't wreck them with bombs. ( No opinion on taking multiple though, but it's a huge eff you to the DA unkillable unit and support )
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/02 20:45:10
Elfric wrote: Guys I am seeing the Void Bomber being hyped. I have one. Is one enough or would having 2-3 be too much?
The thing with it is, it is a nearly 300 point unit that is EXTREMELY specifically specialized in ruining MEQ armies' days. I usually try not to put more than about that into units that don't really contribute to me winning the game (as fliers have zero board presence) so I would take one, but not two. That's just me tho.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
