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 ced1106 wrote:
> Starter Pledge is €99 launch 14th June
> Polish regulations make PVC manufacturing difficult so must be made in China

Well, much less interested now, but mebbe the SG's will help. I've been following the lockdowns in China, and they're letting up. No idea when they'll be back again.

From what was also mentioned in the post above there's no PVC in D&L4. Maybe the Mats? But I don't think those need to be made there either.

Yes for the record and I updated my post - the discussion about PVC was in general and is specific to their boardgames there is no PVC in D&L Encounters it's all HIPs (hard styrene plastic) manufactured in Poland by Archon themselves not 3rd party in China the only thing they are outsourcing is the game mat as they don't make them - it's the only thing they don't have control of.

Having looked at it more (and there's a lot of complaints on facebook) the price is quite high compared to prior KS, they might start to price themselves out of backers price range. Unless they have discounts for larger pledges just the 1 pledge for the Land of the Giants will do me - I have enough trees and the like that I can't justify €99 for each set plus how many Tarrasque do you need? €150 for 2 sets might be okay but will they offer it and they really need to consider making a pledge without mats, making it optional or offering a swap out - they completely avoided that question today even though it's one of the most asked.

i wonder if they've already signed a contract for a sizable number of mats ?

so even loosing some sales by auto including it may be better than having many backers not choosing to get it

(since it is 3rd party they're going to have wanted to make sure it was on time as they've said got burned with 3rd party printing delays in the past)

> Yes for the record and I updated my post - the discussion about PVC was in general and is specific to their boardgames there is no PVC in D&L Encounters

Thanks for the clarification!

D&L Fans FB. Unofficial poll about the mats and terrasque, but Archon is watching. : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418164861823205

D&L FB. Official site. : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418164861823205

...and Gamefound. : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418164861823205

Is this Archon's first experience with neoprene? A friend did a Traveller KS with optional neoprene player mats, and the colors turned out to be a headache, with plenty of rejected samples. Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't problems with paper mats, either. (Archon had Chinese printing issues with their cards (?) in the Chronicle-X campaign.) Being an outright pessimist I'd like not to have the 3rd party making the neoprene mats be the point of failure in this project.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
i wonder if they've already signed a contract for a sizable number of mats ?

so even loosing some sales by auto including it may be better than having many backers not choosing to get it

(since it is 3rd party they're going to have wanted to make sure it was on time as they've said got burned with 3rd party printing delays in the past)

They probably have signed for a minimum number and a manufacturing slot, so like 1k of each mat to make it worth the factories time. Since these boxes are eventually intended for retail and boxed up by Archon themselves they could still sell the mats as part of the retail box pretty easily if they don't go through all of them here. But at that price ($120 USD probably) how well would they sell even to RPG people? That being said the mats probably only add 25-30 Euro to the set (but I also wouldn't be surprised if a bit of shipping is in that price too to offset shipping price shock) and if they separate the two you'd sell more boxes and less mats as neoprene really aren't as popular with RPG players as they are wargamers and most wargamers don't need 2'x2' mats.

Big disappoint here too. I bought 500€ of D&L3 because it was an epic deal. Even I can't justify burning money on duplicate mats and Tarrasques I will never use. The value here is atrocious compared to D&L3 even if I give them a lot of leeway for inflation etc.

The pricing does seem high right now to me as well. And I say that knowing prices are soaring all over the place thanks to the current state of the world.

Four identical sets of stretch goals is not particularly tempting but it is still early, maybe we will see a more tempting all in price.

BTW, Outside of KS, anyone think Archon could sell a starter for €99? That's a lot for 24 terrain pieces and a mat.

Also, you can withdraw your pledge on Gamefound before the campaign ends? If Archon throws an EB figure, I figure I'll pledge then wait until the end before making a final decision.

The Wyvern is on a 75mm base so they are moving up from 50mm for the Dragons. The tongue is weird.

Also the latest graphic shows the mat as 28" rather than 24".

 ced1106 wrote:
BTW, Outside of KS, anyone think Archon could sell a starter for €99? That's a lot for 24 terrain pieces and a mat.

Also, you can withdraw your pledge on Gamefound before the campaign ends? If Archon throws an EB figure, I figure I'll pledge then wait until the end before making a final decision.

I think Leshy is the EB figure this time but you get him for following prelaunch. Gamefound charge at the end so dropping out shouldn't be a problem.

As for retail it's hard to tell they don't seem that bothered about retail they are sitting on a huge amount of stuff that's yet to be released and seem happy enough to generate sales of existing stuff through rapid delivery on the next crowdfunder. Plus they do a lot of work for other companies and that must be paying the bills.

Next to the Fantasy Core $56 (€52) for 11 sprues the new sets don't look great as a €99 retail package (assuming no SG or Tarrasque) and a similar 11 or 12 sprue set plus the mat but I don't think they'd price it at €99 without the SG and Tarrasque. Retail that set might be closer to $79. ( all speculation based on nothing other than their current store prices).

The GW Souldrain forest is probably the closest comparable product - 6 trees, a 22x30 hard card board and 2 ruin sprues for £60 ($75) so we are into GW range pricing (and GW have swamp type terrain coming out with the next Warcry set).

 DaveC wrote:


The GW Souldrain forest is probably the closest comparable product - 6 trees, a 22x30 hard card board and 2 ruin sprues for £60 ($75) so we are into GW range pricing (and GW have swamp type terrain coming out with the next Warcry set).

Souldrain Forest appears to be long out of print although the terrain pieces are available separately. Awakened Wyldwood is $60 for three trees, so $120 for six trees. Timeworn Ruins is $60. With a15% discount you are looking at $153 for the three boxes, so Encounters is high so far, but not really up to GW prices yet.

T

 DaveC wrote:
The Wyvern is on a 75mm base so they are moving up from 50mm for the Dragons. The tongue is weird.

Pretty sure that's supposed to be poison or something similar dripping off the tongue.

Hmmm... I'm not so keen on the terrain itself (especially with non-stacking hills), but the monsters look interesting - and I definitely could use a Tarrasque model.

I may throw in for one copy, depending on any additional stretch goals that show up.

Big scoop!



Sadly this seems like not enough time to adjust the pledges like a lot of people wanted (no mat, etc)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ha ha nevermind!



This fixes everything, gonna throw big bucks at it for sure now.

That’s a guaranteed 4 sets or more for me. Very welcome change.

If a pack with 6 trees is valued at effectively 25€ that's already a good deal without any other bits.

Brilliant news i can happily go for that

Just to note the new prices reflect that they moved the mat to the add ons - it's not included in the sets, that's fine by me for the new prices.

On a side note my D&L 3 has shipped.

Well damn, four sets for 150 is a pretty good deal.

Let's see how those stretch goals pan out. If they're as crazy as the last time maybe it's better to do two of the 99 pledges instead.

I've just received 2 tracking numbers today as well (of my 4 orders)

Wow, drop the mats and give me an extra set instead? Yes please, a deal I think we'd all take.

Now the only question is whether to get the 4 or 2 sets of the 2, so it'll come down to the stretch goals. (although the thought of 2 giant Tarrasque's already is oddly appealing)

This pretty much means I'll be in for at least 2. 4 is quite tempting as well.

Still no D&L 3 for me but I paid for drop shipping on the dragons and got them last fall so I'm just waiting on the figures more or less.

Oh hell yeah. I went from iffy at best to all in.

That price drop basically means they were charging 50 euro for a 2x2 neoprene mat.. I wondered if they had a partnership with Pworks, who is also based out of Poland, or some other mat maker, but that pricing was flat out bad.

That is a great change. Mrs. GG and I will be in for all four now.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Oh hell yeah. I went from iffy at best to all in.

That price drop basically means they were charging 50 euro for a 2x2 neoprene mat.. I wondered if they had a partnership with Pworks, who is also based out of Poland, or some other mat maker, but that pricing was flat out bad.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 100 Euro price was covering part of the shipping for the mats.

It looks like my D&L set will be delivered on Wednesday, which will be a major part in my decision about this now that there's no mat anymore.

The pledge managers for both

Dungeons & Lasers 3 and Ramparts 3 are both closing on 10th June

so if anybody has delayed finalising it (or wants to order another pledge) get shopping

Delivery scheduled for June 2023

Add ons have been added - So entrances aren't a SG but are an add on

https://gamefound.com/projects/archon-studio/encounters#/section/addons/encounters-add-ons-4705

Leshy €35 (free if you follow prelaunch)
River Set €25
Cave/Mine Entrances €20

Legacy Sewers/Fantasy Core €38 (€34)
Legacy rooms €19 (€17)
Phoenix/Ghost Dragon €32 (€29)
Giant €28 (€25)
Troll €18 (€13)

D&L 3 prices in brackets.

Amazed the price hike on old stuff is so little. But what the hell is up with Leshy, it's a troll sized mini and it costs more than the dragons.

I guess they want to drive the follows pre campaign - 6000+ followers - that won't fully transfer into pledges but it gets eyes on the project early.

€199 level now added for 6 sets plus 1 SG and 1 Tarrasque.



Picking a pledge level might come down to the price of additional SG add on packs as they are limiting them to 1 set per pledge (assuming it's worth getting more than 1 set)

Just got a text telling me a very large and heavy parcel has just arrived for me. I am strongly suspecting that my excitement for this campaign will have gone up a notch when I get home!

I do hope being on gamefound doesn't hurt it too much though as the random stretch goal nonsense really adds a lot of fun to these sets. I genuinely can't even remember half the stuff that was added for D+L3, but I guess I'll find out soon when I get home