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I have to agree that the rigs are not great. The concept is not terrible and even these will probably look better in a different paintjob. But the proportions of the thing just give it super toy-like quality.

See, I don't really care what Snakebite rules were, because I never saw a single player use them....not once. Not in online BRs or personally (which is a far smaller sample obviously). As someone else mentioned, FNPs have been removed in 9th (unless you would just prefer Snakebite get 5+++ vs MW only because that's all that is sticking around and would probably make more sense for snakebites). My simple vision is of current rules and you cannot look at the "tranz'uman" without contemplating the increase to T5 in addition, because that alone changes everything about how you handle orks. Before, you'd throw as much S4 at them as possible, because you typically had a lot of fire at that value. Now, that damage has been reduced significantly. Therefore you look at the next best option and IMPO that is the many high ROF S6 weapons that are available because they will have a dual role vs horde armies. If no one plays snakebites, great, because S6 weapons will butcher other Orks and will be the default weapon in my estimation.

We will see, but discounting the new snakebite rule as trash by simply comparing to old rule is a mistake and does not look forward to how armies will adjust to new T5 orks. Time will tell.

I don't think that is accurate bully, since most of those weapons come with a pts tax, which S4/3 weapons just don't pay. Sure i now wound less often with boltguns, but the Tshirt orks wear wont make that a significant enough increase to justify heavy bolters or Autocannons or stormcannons imo?

Can someone who's more familiar with 9th ed rules and the various detachments explain what Gorkanauts and Morks moving to LoW slot means in terms of added costs in command points and gameplay? I have two of them, does this mean I now need to pay extra command points in order to take them both in an army?

 Nazrak wrote:
• Nauts LoW confirmed

Along with a boost in W to 24W. And flat 6D on their melee attacks.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Can someone who's more familiar with 9th ed rules and the various detachments explain what Gorkanauts and Morks moving to LoW slot means in terms of added costs in command points and gameplay? I have two of them, does this mean I now need to pay extra command points in order to take them both in an army?

It means that you can't fit them in a normal detachment. Instead, you can play them in a Super heavy auxiliary detachment which contains one and costs 1 CP, or you pay 3 CP for a super heavy detachment, which contains 3. There is no way to have just 2 super heavies in a single detachment.

Why oh why couldn't the Kill Rig just be a Squiggoth with a Howdah?

Spoletta wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Can someone who's more familiar with 9th ed rules and the various detachments explain what Gorkanauts and Morks moving to LoW slot means in terms of added costs in command points and gameplay? I have two of them, does this mean I now need to pay extra command points in order to take them both in an army?

It means that you can't fit them in a normal detachment. Instead, you can play them in a Super heavy auxiliary detachment which contains one and costs 1 CP, or you pay 3 CP for a super heavy detachment, which contains 3. There is no way to have just 2 super heavies in a single detachment.

Doesn't a Super Heavy Detachment cost 6 if they contain any TITANIC units? Presumably Morkanauts will be the same scale as Knights, which are TITANIC.

Spoletta wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Can someone who's more familiar with 9th ed rules and the various detachments explain what Gorkanauts and Morks moving to LoW slot means in terms of added costs in command points and gameplay? I have two of them, does this mean I now need to pay extra command points in order to take them both in an army?

It means that you can't fit them in a normal detachment. Instead, you can play them in a Super heavy auxiliary detachment which contains one and costs 1 CP, or you pay 3 CP for a super heavy detachment, which contains 3. There is no way to have just 2 super heavies in a single detachment.

Cheers.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I don't think that is accurate bully, since most of those weapons come with a pts tax, which S4/3 weapons just don't pay. Sure i now wound less often with boltguns, but the Tshirt orks wear wont make that a significant enough increase to justify heavy bolters or Autocannons or stormcannons imo?

Not with the weapons you've listed, but you are missing the many other weapons that are S6 and are being taken in great numbers. Volkite dreads, hvy onslaught redemptors, Aeldari basic heavy weapons (shuricannons, scatters, etc), SOB Ivy flamers. I'm sure there are plenty more but now at work and can't access my books. I think HB are a poor choice because you are paying for that D2 and it is wasted here.
Bonus, S6 shots also help vs Drukhari Raiders, clears T3 models with ease.
Just my prediction.

 hollow one wrote:
Jid's right. The corner case of S6 and S7 weapons being turned 16% is not as good as a 6+ FNP across all cases. It's no contest, arguing proves you don't understand context.

Well jid did claim all cases. Which includes s6 and s7 and s5 w:th +1 to wound

Though yes unjless people load up on s6-7 weapons it's nerf.

Jid still exaggerating on every case claim.

At least it fastens up game. Could live with it especially with new rule added. Every codex got some nerf after all. It's the huge amount of nerfs and not many buffs that hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Can someone who's more familiar with 9th ed rules and the various detachments explain what Gorkanauts and Morks moving to LoW slot means in terms of added costs in command points and gameplay? I have two of them, does this mean I now need to pay extra command points in order to take them both in an army?

It means that you can't fit them in a normal detachment. Instead, you can play them in a Super heavy auxiliary detachment which contains one and costs 1 CP, or you pay 3 CP for a super heavy detachment, which contains 3. There is no way to have just 2 super heavies in a single detachment.

Also solo won'tg get klan bonus.

So gork and mork are 24 wounds now as befitting a LoW. Stompa waaaay down in points.

tneva82 wrote:

 hollow one wrote:
Jid's right. The corner case of S6 and S7 weapons being turned 16% is not as good as a 6+ FNP across all cases. It's no contest, arguing proves you don't understand context.

Well jid did claim all cases. Which includes s6 and s7 and s5 w:th +1 to wound

Though yes unjless people load up on s6-7 weapons it's nerf.

Jid still exaggerating on every case claim.

Feel free to flip back to the page where I showed the math proving it worse even for the best units with S6-7 weapons.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
• Nauts LoW confirmed

Along with a boost in W to 24W. And flat 6D on their melee attacks.

And likely titanic, which means you're not getting kultur because you're only taking 1 in a super heavy aux detachment. If you take 3, that's 6 CP. NO ONE, is paying 6 CP for 3 gorks/morks/stompa.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 hollow one wrote:
Jid's right. The corner case of S6 and S7 weapons being turned 16% is not as good as a 6+ FNP across all cases. It's no contest, arguing proves you don't understand context.

Well jid did claim all cases. Which includes s6 and s7 and s5 w:th +1 to wound

Though yes unjless people load up on s6-7 weapons it's nerf.

Jid still exaggerating on every case claim.

Feel free to flip back to the page where I showed the math proving it worse even for the best units with S6-7 weapons.

I don't recall anyone actually claiming it was mathematically superior to 6+++, that is just the hill you are dying on. The truth is that part if trait was never going to be in 9th.

BDBurrow wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
• Nauts LoW confirmed

Along with a boost in W to 24W. And flat 6D on their melee attacks.

And likely titanic, which means you're not getting kultur because you're only taking 1 in a super heavy aux detachment. If you take 3, that's 6 CP. NO ONE, is paying 6 CP for 3 gorks/morks/stompa.

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if they *didn't* get Titanic, to distinguish them from the Stompa.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tbh, I'm not feeling *too* terrible about all this. I do think GW have beefed it a bit in terms of the order they'd announced stuff – if they'd got all this stuff that feels kinda side-gradey out of the way first, and then dropped T5 on us today, I feel like people would maybe be feeling a bit more positive about this, but the novelty of the latter's had time to wear off a bit.

Even if the Codex turns out terrible, I'll still carry on playing with the green lads cos they've always been my main guys when it comes to 40K. After all, Orks are never *really* defeated…

As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

 xeen wrote:
As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

I don't think the goff tide has been hit by any significant nerfs - it's just that this kind of army is the least fun way to play orks and most players don't enjoy playing against it. Most ork players were hoping for buffs to other archetypes.

 Jidmah wrote:

 xeen wrote:
As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

I don't think the goff tide has been hit by any significant nerfs - it's just that this kind of army is the least fun way to play orks and most players don't enjoy playing against it. Most ork players were hoping for buffs to other archetypes.

Yeah, it does feel like a bit of a bummer given that the 9th Codices so far seem to have been pretty good about "flattening" the range of options, both removing auto-takes and boosting up the less… compelling picks.

 Jidmah wrote:

 xeen wrote:
As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

I don't think the goff tide has been hit by any significant nerfs - it's just that this kind of army is the least fun way to play orks and most players don't enjoy playing against it. Most ork players were hoping for buffs to other archetypes.

Sure would have been nice to have other options beyond a heavily infantry-centered list as a competitive option. But once again it looks like "masses of boyz" are going to be the way to go.

Any time masses of boyz is the way to go, GW failed to write a proper ork codex.

 Jidmah wrote:

 xeen wrote:
As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

I don't think the goff tide has been hit by any significant nerfs - it's just that this kind of army is the least fun way to play orks and most players don't enjoy playing against it. Most ork players were hoping for buffs to other archetypes.

Agree to disagree there. In terms of goffs green tide from what we know so far;

Better than last ed;

Real exploding 6s
+1S on charge rather than limited to a pre-game strat for only boys
T5
-1AP on choppas
+1 to hit aura from warbosses

worse than last ed;

No +1A for 20+
No mob rule - this is massive and can't be overstated. If you kill 6 boys, I have to roll a 1 on my leadership test or else I lose 5 additional boyz on average.
Breakin eads now costs a CP
No upstoppable green tide strat
No 5++ from kff. KFF is now worthless at its points cost, so we esentially completely lost our invuln save, and thus any save at all.
Advance and charge is only for 1 turn now.
Ere we go nerfed to all dice instead of any (~10% nerf at 9" charge i think, someone check me)
Increased cost. A squad of 30 is now 30 points higher, 60 points higher than they were in January.

Running MSU boyz bypasses some of these negatives such as mob rule, so I think green tide is likely a thing of the past.

Is loss of Mob Rule confirmed? If so that's a pretty huge loss. Making big mobs of boyz objectively worse than small groups of boyz seems counter to everything that's typically "ork" - ie, huge mobs of boyz charging toward the enemy.

How does MSU boyz bypass loss of Mob Rule? I don't have the 9e rules handy so I'm not sure how Morale has changed.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Is loss of Mob Rule confirmed? If so that's a pretty huge loss. Making big mobs of boyz objectively worse than small groups of boyz seems counter to everything that's typically "ork" - ie, huge mobs of boyz charging toward the enemy.

How does MSU boyz bypass loss of Mob Rule? I don't have the 9e rules handy so I'm not sure how Morale has changed.

Loss of mob rule is part of the leaks that have been 100% correct so far with what WarCom has released.

If I have 10 boyz instead of 30 and I lose the same amount of boys (6), then I will only lose 1-2 to morale instead of 5, on average.

Boyz are no doubt killier in 9th. But they were already glass cannons and now they are even less durable by a LONG shot.

And forget replacing your 120 boys with grots. They nerfed them too. Snagga boyz? Nope. Max squad size is 20 and at 11ppm you can really only afford to run 60.

Sprue pictures are up on NZ.
Zodgrod


Squighog Boyz, Nob on Smasha Squig, Bomb Squig:


Beastsnagga Boyz


So the Nob on Smasha Squig is part of the Hogboyz. I recall there was some debate over whatever else he'd have on sprue or whatnot...but he's just in that box.

An arm here or there might be swappable... or it could all be unique shoulder joins.

Beast snagga sprue does not have a power klaw. What sacrilege is this.

Purely based on that, nyet. Boys are fine.

They wouldn't have a power claw, the nob can get a power snappa, which is on the top left of the first snagga sprue.

So I'll give em a powasnappa just cuz

BDBurrow wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 xeen wrote:
As a non-ork player (TS/CSM) I am actually struggling to come up with a way that I would effectively deal with a significant number of T5 boys. I mean now I use Inferno-bolters/soulreaper cannons, or bolters and chainreaper cannons. All of those are going to be significantly less effective, and I am not sure any of my "all-comers" lists will have the shooting to deal with 60 or 90 boys prior to those boys getting stuck in. Especially if using the GW terrain set ups. And then in combat most of my CC attacks (Tgors/Marines) are S4 so are also less effective. While a lot of what has come down looks like nerfs (and prehaps they are), it is really similar to the Plague Marnie situation. I think the 2w with 5+++ would have been (or really the 3w 5+++ on terminators) would have been to much (in addition to slowing the game), so they got the -1 damage, and those units are still pretty good. I think the T5 boys with a universal 6+++ might have been to much. I think it will take a month or two to really see if the T5 makes that big of a difference in Orks surviving in game conditions. But right now, I am worried about dealing with big blobs of Ork boys. Then tack on Goff Kulture, and I think this is what you are going to see competitively (although the T5 doesn't help against DE poison, so who knows).

I don't think the goff tide has been hit by any significant nerfs - it's just that this kind of army is the least fun way to play orks and most players don't enjoy playing against it. Most ork players were hoping for buffs to other archetypes.

Agree to disagree there. In terms of goffs green tide from what we know so far;

Better than last ed;

Real exploding 6s
+1S on charge rather than limited to a pre-game strat for only boys
T5
-1AP on choppas
+1 to hit aura from warbosses

worse than last ed;

No +1A for 20+
No mob rule - this is massive and can't be overstated. If you kill 6 boys, I have to roll a 1 on my leadership test or else I lose 5 additional boyz on average.
Breakin eads now costs a CP
No upstoppable green tide strat
No 5++ from kff. KFF is now worthless at its points cost, so we esentially completely lost our invuln save, and thus any save at all.
Advance and charge is only for 1 turn now.
Ere we go nerfed to all dice instead of any (~10% nerf at 9" charge i think, someone check me)
Increased cost. A squad of 30 is now 30 points higher, 60 points higher than they were in January.

Running MSU boyz bypasses some of these negatives such as mob rule, so I think green tide is likely a thing of the past.

Yeah, it seems GW really wants you to run mech.

Which on one hand does mean you don't have to move 100 infantry models, thus saving time.

On the other hand it also kills an iconic way of playing orks.