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There's also only one combi weapon frame iirc, and you'll have to cut to get both simulacrums.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ten includes 9 or less though.

Well, there's your trouble: not understanding what words mean. 10 most definitely does not include 9 or fewer.

It literally says:

If this unit contains 9 or fewer models

A unit that contains 10 models does not contain 9 or fewer models. This is not open to debate. There's no possible way to read the first clause as applying to a unit of 10+.

I think I see the issue. If you treat contain as a synonym for include, it would make sense, but then you are using a language definition. Does the rulebook define contain like it does within vs fully within?

Lammia wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

dammit wrote:
Looks like just the standard squad.

1 special/heavy at 5-9
1 special + 1special/heavy at 10-19
2 special + 2special/heavy at 20

celestians and domions both seem the same

So does this match "what's in the box", similar to Plague Marines? Or is it entirely arbitrary? For the record, I don't think removing previously legal options is good either way. Just curious.

Arbitrary.

The best that can can be said is it beings them in line with tac marines for the first time ever

Not exactly, as TACs are capped at 10 models. CSM can go up to 20, but still only get 2 specials/heavys. Going beyond 10 just gets us more bodies.

Combat Patrol from the dex incase anyone hasn't seen.

Looks like it's limited edition stuff. Seems like a good deal for combat patrol.

 Sasori wrote:
Combat Patrol from the dex incase anyone hasn't seen.

Looks like it's limited edition stuff. Seems like a good deal for combat patrol.

I'd been saying they way it should be for ages.

Were the limited edition kits the proper release kits i.e zephyrim/seraphym options, mortifier instead of penitent etc?

Also don't really know what to do with 4 repentia, except maybe as a 56pt miracle dice?

Glad to see Retributors get adjusted.

dammit wrote:
Were the limited edition kits the proper release kits i.e zephyrim/seraphym options, mortifier instead of penitent etc?

Also don't really know what to do with 4 repentia, except maybe as a 56pt miracle dice?

No, they’re monobuild kits.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Glad to see Retributors get adjusted.

"Adjusted". Yeah, the way napalm 'adjusts' a forest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

dammit wrote:
Looks like just the standard squad.

1 special/heavy at 5-9
1 special + 1special/heavy at 10-19
2 special + 2special/heavy at 20

celestians and domions both seem the same

So does this match "what's in the box", similar to Plague Marines? Or is it entirely arbitrary? For the record, I don't think removing previously legal options is good either way. Just curious.

Arbitrary.

The best that can can be said is it beings them in line with tac marines for the first time ever

Not exactly, as TACs are capped at 10 models. CSM can go up to 20, but still only get 2 specials/heavys. Going beyond 10 just gets us more bodies.

To clarify, every battle sister box comes with 4 of each special, a heavy bolter and a heavy flamer. The maximum number of guns you can put on a 20 girl squad TWENTY FOUR shy of what comes in two boxes of BSS

If there was a forest needing a napalm adjustment, it was the Retributors.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
If there was a forest needing a napalm adjustment, it was the Retributors.

They were good, they weren't THAT good. Losing their stratagem alone would have brought them down to normal. Instead they lost the stratagem, move and shoot, their second armorium cherub (essentially) , and most of their defensive bonuses.

They went from being a premiere unit in the game to being garbage Devastator knockoffs again.

The worst part is you still have to take them because our next best 24" range or better shooting unit is Morven Vahl after they gutted the exorcist and let a toddler design the Castigator.

That's a really good value combat patrol for me. I need a rhino ($60), and probably more sisters ($60), so I'm getting the rest for $20.
I know this is the monobuild, but I probably need more sister bolters than anything.

Having the initial limited set, and buying a box of repentia later; adding 4 more makes 2 squads now viable. It also means I have 6 arcoflags for a unit, plus 2 pen engines. 5 seraphim can be converted to a unit of zeph easy enough (as I bought the zeph box to round out my previous seraphim).
Convert cannonness to different loadout and same for repentia superior. There are a lot of savings to be had here.

They were absolutely stupid good.

I do agree that they seem to have gone too far with the nerfs, though. Which seems to be a pattern throughout the codex: they did identify the stuff that was too good, but they took a sledgehammer to it instead of a scalpel.

As long as multimeltas are as OP as they are now Retributors will be fine because they are the cheapest multimeltas one can put out there.

Retributors are going to be absolutely fine.

Also armorium cherubs have not changed at all. There is no valid reading of that ability that suggests you can only use one each turn.

 Galas wrote:
As long as multimeltas are as OP as they are now Retributors will be fine because they are the cheapest multimeltas one can put out there.

except that they're fragile infantry with multi metlas which mean you have to assume they'll be shot off the board

 Galas wrote:
As long as multimeltas are as OP as they are now Retributors will be fine because they are the cheapest multimeltas one can put out there.

Multimeltas are only 'OP' if they have a functional delivery system. 24" might as well be pistol range when it's the closest thing you have to artillery. Without the extra 12" range and with most of their defensive bonuses piss in the wind, they can't afford to start on the table (unless out of LoS and even then only of your opponent has ZERO indirect fire) anymore. Without move and shoot they're much worse coming out of a transport or outflank.

They'll still see play because 1. Sisters have nothing else that shoots that far. 2. The Exorcist and Castigator are utter, utter garbage and 3. The miracle dice change killed soup.

They were already that and somehow people worked around it.

Oh and look, argent shroud gives you 36 inch range meltas, with 24 inches on the half-range, and you get a reroll for free.

Any GOOD news out of the codex?

Only positive change I'm seeing is that dominions got their pre-game transport move back. All the other changes look less than exciting.

Altima wrote:
Any GOOD news out of the codex?

Only positive change I'm seeing is that dominions got their pre-game transport move back. All the other changes look less than exciting.

damage 2 storm bolters, +1s on all flamer variants (and the ebon rose max hits with flamers is now generic), every non-bloody rose order is better. Repentia went down 2 points and got core. Penitent engine got natural advance and charge as well as +1 movement.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Galas wrote:
As long as multimeltas are as OP as they are now Retributors will be fine because they are the cheapest multimeltas one can put out there.

except that they're fragile infantry with multi metlas which mean you have to assume they'll be shot off the board

Isn't that why you put them in Rhinos or Immolators?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
...expect Space Marines actually hold their shields like shields?

You wot?



In anything, they have it even worse, grabbing less balanced shield with chunkier pistol by pistol grip that is not centered but on the very edge of shield. But funny how the bit SM had last 20 years is not a problem, but whining starts the second Sisters get something much better designed...

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Galas wrote:
As long as multimeltas are as OP as they are now Retributors will be fine because they are the cheapest multimeltas one can put out there.

except that they're fragile infantry with multi metlas which mean you have to assume they'll be shot off the board

Isn't that why you put them in Rhinos or Immolators?

and getting out now gives -1 to hit, which is a pretty big deal.

Retributors needed a nerf but the entire Codex got shafted hard in almost every aspect (Damage, Durability and Miracle Dice generation), the only thing that improved is the Deny section but even then it's mediocre at best

 Irbis wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
...expect Space Marines actually hold their shields like shields?

You wot?


In anything, they have it even worse, grabbing less balanced shield with chunkier pistol by pistol grip that is not centered but on the very edge of shield. But funny how the bit SM had last 20 years is not a problem, but whining starts the second Sisters get something much better designed...

pretty sure people whined about that when it first came out.
Eventually people got over it, same way people will get over this.

 Irbis wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
...expect Space Marines actually hold their shields like shields?

You wot?



In anything, they have it even worse, grabbing less balanced shield with chunkier pistol by pistol grip that is not centered but on the very edge of shield. But funny how the bit SM had last 20 years is not a problem, but whining starts the second Sisters get something much better designed...

Well that's worse and i hate it equally. But most Space Marines hold their shields, y'know, like this. Inclduing the more modern ones, like Bladeguard Veterans.

 Ordana wrote:
and getting out now gives -1 to hit, which is a pretty big deal.

Sounds like the unit could do with having a handlfu of ways to deal with that.

or just accept that 12 multimelta shots hitting on 4 is still really good. You could even shoot through dense cover without any penalty for moving.

dammit wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
and getting out now gives -1 to hit, which is a pretty big deal.

Sounds like the unit could do with having a handlfu of ways to deal with that.

or just accept that 12 multimelta shots hitting on 4 is still really good. You could even shoot through dense cover without any penalty for moving.

Gw has been handing out -1 to hit strategems to vehicles like candy lately, so they were already going to be hitting on 4s against their intended targets anyway.

A bit salty that the Combat Patrol is the $200 SOB army boxset. Especially since it includes a Rhino (no codex, but still) for less. But I guess it's nice for other people to get a chance to pick up those models.

My local just posted prices for the new sisters stuff.

How the hell is Morven Vahl (spelling may be off) worth $55